800k investment for retirement extension

[chris2004]

I know this has been raised many times (and i did check) but just wondered what the latest position is. I previously got my extension based on income but now am looking to get it based on 800k in the bank, (to avoid the Embassy's extortionate charge) assuming i can get a reasonable amount of interest. What deposit accounts are acceptable to immigration to use for the 800k account. I presume they have to be ones where you can withdraw money immediately (with or without penalty). In the current market what sort of interest can one get on these accounts and where do BMs usually deposit their 800k.

[lopburi3]

Normally commercial savings bank passbook savings accounts and fixed time deposit account are accepted. Just be sure it is a cash account rather than one of the fund type accounts many banks now offer.

Interest will likely be below 3% currently.

But also remember the money only has to be in account for 3 months prior to application - you can take it out once extension is received until 3 months prior to next application. So fixed account might not be your best option if keeping elsewhere gets a higher return.

[meatboy]

i have used fix term deposit accs.as it is available anytime subject to loss of interest.

if you intend to leave it on deposit long time,take a pass book that shows what you are living on.

i think i have been asked twice in the last 5yrs.

[55Jay]

If you desire routine access to the principal and/or interest,, Krungsi Bank (Bank of Ayudhya aka "Yellow bank") has a savings account called Mee Tae Dai (MTD), currently providing 2.3%.

If you are familiar with Money Market accounts, it operates like that.

- Higher interest than normal savings acct but less than some fixed account offers.

- Interest compounds and is paid monthly.

- Principal and interest are accessible w/o penalty up to __ transactions each month (I think it's 6).

- Visa Debit/ATM card & online banking.

If you approach 20,000 baht interest, transfer all funds into a new MTD account to avoid tax on interest, and the tax return process.

[JAS21]

CIMB are currently offering 3.2% for 13 months ... I also have their 3.5% but that offer has now finished. I too got fed up with using the income method rip off British Embassy letter.

Edited January 19, 2015 by JAS21

[MichaelJohn]

The funds in the account must be immedaately accessible (so usually you'd lose interest).

CIMB as mentioned above although my last one was 15 months with Kasikorn at 3.2%.

I put it in a bank every year (or 15, 18 months) and as mentioned above usually take my "living expenses" pass book but never been asked to show it.

[JAS21]

The funds in the account must be immedaately accessible (so usually you'd lose interest).

CIMB as mentioned above although my last one was 15 months with Kasikorn at 3.2%.

I put it in a bank every year (or 15, 18 months) and as mentioned above usually take my "living expenses" pass book but never been asked to show it.

Well it's the obvious way ... I just move around the 'visa renewal' money from one account to another ... whoever has the best rate at the time ...just need to ensure the 3 month rule ...I keep a little bit of money in various accounts so not normally a problem to juggle.

Any problem with dates and I borrow the money from Mrs Jazz.

Edited January 19, 2015 by JAS21

[Pib]

If you desire routine access to the principal and/or interest,, Krungsi Bank (Bank of Ayudhya aka "Yellow bank") has a savings account called Mee Tae Dai (MTD), currently providing 2.3%.

If you are familiar with Money Market accounts, it operates like that.

- Higher interest than normal savings acct but less than some fixed account offers.

- Interest compounds and is paid monthly.

- Principal and interest are accessible w/o penalty up to __ transactions each month (I think it's 6).

- Visa Debit/ATM card & online banking.

If you approach 20,000 baht interest, transfer all funds into a new MTD account to avoid tax on interest, and the tax return process.

For the MTD you get "2" free withdrawals per month...3d and subsequent withdrawal per month a Bt50 fee applies. No interest penalty, just the fee.

The "6" transactions per month you mention is probably your brain thinking about U.S. money market/savings accounts where you get up to 6 withdrawals per month before bad things can possibly start happening to include the possibility of account closure.

[55Jay]

If you desire routine access to the principal and/or interest,, Krungsi Bank (Bank of Ayudhya aka "Yellow bank") has a savings account called Mee Tae Dai (MTD), currently providing 2.3%.

If you are familiar with Money Market accounts, it operates like that.

- Higher interest than normal savings acct but less than some fixed account offers.

- Interest compounds and is paid monthly.

- Principal and interest are accessible w/o penalty up to __ transactions each month (I think it's 6).

- Visa Debit/ATM card & online banking.

If you approach 20,000 baht interest, transfer all funds into a new MTD account to avoid tax on interest, and the tax return process.

For the MTD you get "2" free withdrawals per month...3d and subsequent withdrawal per month a Bt50 fee applies. No interest penalty, just the fee.

The "6" transactions per month you mention is probably your brain thinking about U.S. money market/savings accounts where you get up to 6 withdrawals per month before bad things can possibly start happening to include the possibility of account closure.

Yep, that was probably the case. Tx.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

If you approach 20,000 baht interest, transfer all funds into a new MTD account to avoid tax on interest, and the tax return process.

Pib and Jay, I've been looking at Krungsri's Mee Tae Dai account for Immigration bank deposit purposes, but haven't opened one as yet.

But when I read the detail in their PDF document on interest rates, the section about the MTD account talks about the interest being credited monthly "(after withholding tax)."

So I'm not sure what to make of that.

Do they withhold tax from the monthly interest payments from the outset? Or, do they only start withholding if/when your interest payments for the year reach 20,000 baht limit and beyond?

I've got an appointment with my local branch manager tomorrow to see about opening that account, or something similar with them.

BTW, I was down at Chaengwattana the other day for some Immigration business, and did a walk through of the basement to tick off all the different Thai banks with branches there.

My list included Bangkok, Siam Commercial, Kasikorn, Krungsri, Thanachart, Government Savings Bank, KrungThai, and TMB.

Unfortunately, missing from that location, as best as I could see, are both Standard Chartered and CIMB.

I have a CIMB branch with ATMs near my home, but unfortunately, none of the staff there speak any English, so they say, so the prospect of getting them conveniently to issue an Immigration deposit letter without dragging my wife along doesn't seem promising.

Meanwhile, all the Standard Chartered branches near my home and the one near ChaengWattana seem to be mall branches that open mid to late morning, meaning it would be difficult to get an ATM receipt balance update there from them at an early hour on the the morning of my future Immigration visits.

Krungsri, on the other hand, both has an early opening branch with ATMs near my home as well as the same inside the CW Govt. Complex, making it more appealing and convenient for Immigration purposes, despite their interest rates being a bit lower than SC and CIMB.

[Pib]

TallGuy,

Interest being paid monthly with no tax withholding. Several times I have calculated the monthly interest payment to ensure it was the full 2.3% and it was. In fact, I just logged onto my MTD account, looked at the interest paid for last month, did the calculation to ensure I was getting the full 2.3%, and I was. The only debit that shows monthly is the Bt19 debit for the SMS service. The particular debit card I got is their basic card "with no annual fee" but you must take the Bt19 SMS service which adds up to Bt228/year...but it's nice getting a SMS on any transaction you do. I've had the MTD account since last Aug, been happy with it, and continue to add to it.

I opened my account at the Krungsri branch next to the Bangkok Bank branch in the Chaeng Wattana immigration building (nice folks in that Krungsri branch although the two folks I dealt with for account opening knew extremely little English). And that next door Bangkok Bank branch is where I have my Bt800K fixed deposit for retirement extension/emergency money purposes....they have a female manager there that speaks very good English...have always been very helpful...and issue the bank letter for retirement extension purposes in issue in about 5 minutes for a fee of Bt100...then it's up to immigration I go to renew my retirement extension...done that for two years now...or maybe its been three years.

Pib

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Pib, in part due to your recommendation and calling attention to the account, I did open a MTD at my local Krungsri branch the other day. Includes online banking and a VISA debit card. Sukhumvit Soi 17 near the Tops/Robinson's Center. Branch is small, but has a pleasant manager by the name of Khun Visut (who said he spoke English and then proceeded to speak entirely in Thai) and an English speaking new accounts officer by the name of "Oh" who treated my wife and I pretty well the other day. Should have added, did so with a retirement extension, no work permit.

While perusing the latest interest rates PDF file on the Krungsri website, I saw they also have a 10 month special time deposit paying 2.5%, interest paid monthly, but tax withheld, minimum 10,000 to open up to 10 million, though their PDF says 50,000.

And also an 8 months step-up time deposit that has three different rates over its term that average out to 2.75%, 10,000 to open, interest paid monthly, tax withheld. And bank staff there confirmed both were still available and available to me.

In both cases, bank staff said funds can be added to either account at any time during their terms, though apparently with 10,000 baht minimums per addition. And the monthly interest payments are automatically transferred monthly into either a separate savings or current account with the bank, such as the Mee Tae Dai account.

Planning to use the Mee Tae Dai account as an ongoing, kind of backup account with Krungsri, and then transfer my funds with them from the Mee Tae Dai account into any special or time deposit accounts they may offer in the future with decent interest rates.

I know CIMB has some better rates on their accounts, but what they don't have is any branch nearby my home where they have any English speaking staff who are going to be helpful is issuing an annual Immigration bank deposit letter, nor do they have a branch at the ChaengWattana Immigration complex in BKK. The folks at the Krungsri Sukhumvit Soi 17 branch assured me they knew what the Immigration letters are and would have no problem producing them, and Krungsri also has a branch inside the Govt Complex.

Edited January 31, 2015 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Pib]

Yea, a person can self-induce high blood pressure trying to chase the highest interest rate deposit promotion of the day (and within a few days there will probably be another promotion with an even higher rate). The Krungsri MTD pays 2.3% (which is over 4.6 times the rate of a regular Thai bank savings account now paying 0.5%), no 15% tax withheld unless going over Bt20K interest per year, interest paid monthly, a person can withdrawal funds twice a month without any penalty fee (Bt50 fee for 3 or more withdrawals per month), comes with a debit card if desired, and you can get ibanking. Plenty of Krungsri branches everywhere.

And the Krungsri branch I opened the account at was very helpful and didn't care that I was American...they just had me fill out the citizenship related questionnaire and the IRS social security number form then continued on with opening the account/completing the typical account opening forms. Since the FATCA thing went into effect 1 Jul 14 I've opened two more accounts...one at Bangkok Bank and one at Krungsri Bank---no problems...just two additional easy and fast to complete forms.

Yeap, the absolute highest interest rate on a saving account ain't everything...a person needs to consider other factors also such as purpose of the account, need to easily access the money, how much you plan to keep in the account, convenience, branch availability, etc...preaching the choir I know.

[sfokevin]

Doesn't immigration require that the 800k on deposit come from a foreign source?...

If so couldn't moving money from bank to bank cause a problem?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Doesn't immigration require that the 800k on deposit come from a foreign source?...

If so couldn't moving money from bank to bank cause a problem?

Re causing a problem, never heard that it has...

All my funds come originally from foreign sources. But once they're here, I'm free to move them around, and from bank to bank, as I see fit.

The only issue limiting the moving of funds, AFAIK, is the 2-3 month seasoning requirements Immigration has for people using the bank deposit method for extensions of stay. But if you're not using a deposit for that purpose or you're outside the seasoning period, I think you're free to choose.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yeap, the absolute highest interest rate on a saving account ain't everything...a person needs to consider other factors also such as purpose of the account, need to easily access the money, how much you plan to keep in the account, convenience, branch availability, etc...preaching the choir I know.

Definitely.

If I was just looking at financial return only, I'd park my money in a 3%+ CIMB year-plus time deposit account, forget it and then reclaim the tax withheld at the end of the year.

But if I'm going to keep a couple hundred thousand baht in banks here instead of in the U.S., then I'm inclined to at least make those funds available for Immigration bank deposit purposes, should I ever want to use them in that way. And that's where CIMB doesn't really work conveniently for me -- though they certainly could for others depending on individual branch location and convenience issues.

[Pib]

Doesn't immigration require that the 800k on deposit come from a foreign source?...

If so couldn't moving money from bank to bank cause a problem?

Nope, immigration does not require it come from a foreign source. Just needs to be at least Bt800K in a type of account where you can access the money immediately. Even in a fixed deposit account you can access the money immediately however there will be a BIG interest penalty. Now I have seen some posts where a few immigration offices apparently won't accept fixed deposit accounts either because they feel the money is not immediately available or maybe the poster really had the money locked away in some other type of financial account/bonds where you can not access the funds until the account matures but he was calling it a fixed account. I've even seen a few posts where an immigration office may want to know where your day-to-day spending money is coming from if the fixed deposit account money is not be used...then you need to pull out bank statements showing ATM withdrawals from other Thai/foreign banks, show you have another account for day-to-day living expenses, etc....but these immigration offices seem to be the exception or maybe they thought the individual was being less than truthful in his/her application.

Regarding moving the money around, it just needs to be in "any Thai bank" account for at least 3 months before your application of retirement extension of stay....only two months on the first extension. Immigration is just looking for it to be seasoned in an accessible account for those periods...the other 9 months out of the year you can move the money around all you want, do withdrawals, etc.....just don't let the balance drop below Bt800K if doing a withdrawal within that 3 month seasoning window.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

This is one of the things I've been wondering about lately:

Clearly, during the seasoning period, the applicant/depositor cannot MOVE the funds from one account to another, or even change account numbers. Even if the funds remain above the 400,000 or 800,000 thresholds, having an account or account number change seems to be a NO NO for Immigration.

But what I don't recall being addressed here was: Can you can keep your 400,000 or 800,000 spread among, for example, two different accounts -- both in your name only and both seasoned for the required period? Perhaps to take advantage of different interest rates or different account terms, etc..,.

[Pib]

Would be interesting to see if any one has gotten an extension by combining funds from multiple bank accounts to reach the Bt800K amount. Seems everything I've seen from immigration states or implies "a" Thai bank account as in meaning "one" account...but that may just be a Thai-English translation issue.

But I can image being able to use "multiple" accounts could lead to headaches for immigration officers when some folks would come walking in with maybe a half dozen bank letters from various banks and accounts and then the officer needing to review each one.

Below is a cut and paste of a few Q&As from the Bangkok Immigration website regarding the bank requirement...it does not say "banks or accounts" in the plural sense anywhere....to me, seems to imply "a" Thai bank account as in one account.

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

[jacky54]

I have found some officials not very happy with deposit accounts in the past so have gone with the MTD at my local Krungsri branch, not such a high interest rate but they do add it monthly and you can make two withdrawals a month, also you can update the book to the renewal date which I could not do with the deposit account. Could not get the Krungsri online banking to work though, but not really bothered about it.

[jacky54]

Yea, a person can self-induce high blood pressure trying to chase the highest interest rate deposit promotion of the day (and within a few days there will probably be another promotion with an even higher rate). The Krungsri MTD pays 2.3% (which is over 4.6 times the rate of a regular Thai bank savings account now paying 0.5%), no 15% tax withheld unless going over Bt20K interest per year,

Are you sure about no tax withheld? they told me it is and I think you are right about not having to pay it if under 20k but I thought you had to claim it back?

[Pib]

Yea, a person can self-induce high blood pressure trying to chase the highest interest rate deposit promotion of the day (and within a few days there will probably be another promotion with an even higher rate). The Krungsri MTD pays 2.3% (which is over 4.6 times the rate of a regular Thai bank savings account now paying 0.5%), no 15% tax withheld unless going over Bt20K interest per year,

Are you sure about no tax withheld? they told me it is and I think you are right about not having to pay it if under 20k but I thought you had to claim it back?

Yeap, I'm sure....it's what their documents said and what I'm seeing on my monthly interest payments. On the monthly interest payments I'm getting the full 2.3% current rate...and the amount I have in the account right now is far below the level that would earn over Bt20K per year.

[jacky54]

have you noticed it mentioned on their website anywhere? I have never had an account with any bank that did not stop tax on this amount

[Anthony5]

Would be interesting to see if any one has gotten an extension by combining funds from multiple bank accounts to reach the Bt800K amount. Seems everything I've seen from immigration states or implies "a" Thai bank account as in meaning "one" account...but that may just be a Thai-English translation issue.

But I can image being able to use "multiple" accounts could lead to headaches for immigration officers when some folks would come walking in with maybe a half dozen bank letters from various banks and accounts and then the officer needing to review each one.

Below is a cut and paste of a few Q&As from the Bangkok Immigration website regarding the bank requirement...it does not say "banks or accounts" in the plural sense anywhere....to me, seems to imply "a" Thai bank account as in one account.

http://bangkok.immigration.go.th/en/base.php?page=faq

Capture.JPG

Unless things have changed, I had got an extension 3 years ago using 2 bank accounts from different banks.

I will have to do the same again this time, for the sake of having overlooked a few thousand Baht at the start of the 90 day seasoning, but this time it will be 2 accounts from the same bank.

[Pib]

have you noticed it mentioned on their website anywhere? I have never had an account with any bank that did not stop tax on this amount

It use to say it on their website and signs at the branches but no more at least on their website. Think of it as a regular savings account which only pays 0.5% interest and does not withhold tax until exceeding Bt20K interest earned per year...you know the typical Thai bank savings account. Except in the Mee Tai Dai savings account case it currently pays 2.3% and like already said and in many other posts/threads on ThaiVisa, it does "not" apply any withholding tax until exceeding Bt20K interest earned per year.

The Mee Tai Dai account is "not" a traditional fixed deposit account which requires the 15% withholding tax on "any amount of interest earned; instead, it's a hybrid account...kinda a cross breed between a regular savings account and fixed savings account....it pays a lot higher interest rate than a regular savings account but less than a fixed savings account...it starts applying a Bt50 fee per withdrawal if withdrawing more than twice a month where a regular savings account would not apply any fee regardless of how many withdrawals you do per month and where a fixed saving account would whack you big time on a interest penalty and may even result in account closure.

You are probably hung-up on thinking a higher paying interest account must be withholding tax like higher paying fixed account do. Other banks have kinda similar hybrid saving deposits with various names that do not withhold tax also, but none of them of as good as the Krungsri Mee Tai Dai account as far as I know.

Edit: PS - the Krungsri website is another example of not providing detailed info, having rough English, having to use the Search function to find a lot of things, lots of room for improvement. Like other Thai banks it comes in a distance 2nd in terms of detail and good English like found on the Bangkok Bank website.

Edited January 31, 2015 by Pib

[jacky54]

I think the woman who opened it for me made a mistake, or thought I would be depositing millions, will have to wait and look at the first month interest, thanks.

[Pib]

I have found some officials not very happy with deposit accounts in the past so have gone with the MTD at my local Krungsri branch, not such a high interest rate but they do add it monthly and you can make two withdrawals a month, also you can update the book to the renewal date which I could not do with the deposit account. Could not get the Krungsri online banking to work though, but not really bothered about it.

For me, the Krungsri ibanking was the first one that setup problem-free in comparion to other Thai bank initial ibanking setup over the years like Bangkok Bank and KrungThai Bank. And in comparison to other Thai bank ibanking accounts the wife and I use, the Krungsri ibanking definitely is the fastest one to log onto. So far, so good after around 6 months of being with them.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I have found some officials not very happy with deposit accounts in the past so have gone with the MTD at my local Krungsri branch, not such a high interest rate but they do add it monthly and you can make two withdrawals a month, also you can update the book to the renewal date which I could not do with the deposit account. Could not get the Krungsri online banking to work though, but not really bothered about it.

I set up my MTD online banking last night, but it wasn't as smooth or easy as it might/could have been.

For starters, at the branch, the bank staff said nothing to me about online banking, even thru us getting ready to finish our business.

At the end, I had to ask the accounts officer, hey, how about a USER ID and password for online banking? As it turned out, she had sent an SMS to my mobile phone while we were talking, without telling me she had, that contained a temporary online banking password. The initial user ID is the full account number with no dashes interspersed.

Then when I got home and got onto the Krungsri website, it was not entirely clear which link to pursue.

I believe, when I got to this log-in link:

https://www.krungsrionline.com/cgi-bin/bvisapi.dll/krungsri_ib/login/login.jsp?language=eng

You have a choice between choosing to just enter your user ID and password to sign in, or a separate link to "Register." I wasn't sure which I was supposed to use, and had gotten no instructions from the branch. But in the end, I believe it was NOT the "register" choice. It was the regular sign-in choice.

And then I believe I boo-boo'd the first time because the website asked me to enter my bank passbook's SERIAL Number, which is printed at the lower right corner of the main passbook page. At first, not reading closely, I thought they wanted my ACCOUNT number. But no, they wanted the SERIAL number, which is something entirely different, and something I don't ever recall using or being asked to use by a Thai bank before.

At that point, for whatever reason, my original account number and temporary original password weren't working to log-in, for what reason, I had no clue. So I backed out to start from scratch, and clicked the link on the main webpage to request a NEW temporary password, which arrived by SMS in a few minutes. And then when I used my account number as ID along with the new temporary password, BINGO, it finally logged me in.

[Pib]

One thing about the Krungsri ibanking "always" log off properly...that is, click the logoff icon. If for some reason you forget to click the logoff icon and just close the webpage, but then decide you want to immediately log back on you will need to wait 15 minutes otherwise you will get logon error message which states/imply you are using the wrong User ID/password. I experienced this problem several times until I called the Krungsri Call Center where a nice lady explained it to me in good English. Summary: if you didn't click the logoff icon on Krungsri ibanking, you will need to wait 15 minutes to be able to log back on.

Now with Bangkok Bank ibanking if you don't logoff properly by clicking the logoff icon you can still immediately log back on because by closing the webpage (intentionally or unintentionally) causes a logoff which allows an immediate log back on if desired. But with the Krungsri ibanking it don't work that way...either click the logoff button or plan to wait 15 minutes before you can log on again.

[jacky54]

i could not get the password to work, reset it still did not work