Public prosecutors agree to charge Yingluck in Supreme Court: NACC secretary general

[rubl]

So, the State loses 700 billion Baht on a 'self-financing' scheme, the PM stated in parliament that she and only she was in charge and some here still sprout nonsense?

The very fact of 700 billion Baht loss on a self-financing scheme with various persons involved having gone on record that there wasn't a problem and still these questions? It would seem the people involved have done their best to pin it on themselves.

It still doesn't confer criminal liability.

Just liability as result of negligence not enough for you?

They could and probably should convict half of Thailand's civil servants for negligence, in fact you could say in politics regardless of party here its almost a pre requisite.

Somewhat sarcastic I once suggested the Minister of Interior shoot one in ten of the high / middle cadre officials to encourage the others. At the same time the salary level of lowest scales should be raised.

Anyway, we start with Ms. Yingluck and no we won't shoot her.

[rubl]

Just liability as result of negligence not enough for you?

I don't think she should be held liable by a court. In fact, her liability should have been judged by the electorate. Being useless isn't a crime. Having policies that cost the country money isnt a crime, least of all to be judged by a blatently partisan group put in power by a coup. This just doesn't pass scrutiny in my eyes.

'liability' judged by the electorate? Now you're dreaming.

[Thai at Heart]

Both sides have their black sheep. Which side most depends on ones preference only I think.

Still whether just 'negligence' or 'negligence induced corruption' or 'criminal behaviour' doesn't really matter much in the sense that with the 'accused side' more-or-less shouting 'political ploy' the politicians involved think they can get off. If this country is to evolve politicians must be held accountable. Following more and more other people can be held accountable. Till a situation is reached where it's deemed normal to do politics and business in a transparent, accountable manner.

Reforms will only be successful when binding to all even if that means those who asked will feel sorry they did so. IMHO.

So you don't care how any of this is achieved, as long as in your eyes it gets done to your satisfaction. The very spirit of arbitrary justice.

[rubl]

Both sides have their black sheep. Which side most depends on ones preference only I think.

Still whether just 'negligence' or 'negligence induced corruption' or 'criminal behaviour' doesn't really matter much in the sense that with the 'accused side' more-or-less shouting 'political ploy' the politicians involved think they can get off. If this country is to evolve politicians must be held accountable. Following more and more other people can be held accountable. Till a situation is reached where it's deemed normal to do politics and business in a transparent, accountable manner.

Reforms will only be successful when binding to all even if that means those who asked will feel sorry they did so. IMHO.

So you don't care how any of this is achieved, as long as in your eyes it gets done to your satisfaction. The very spirit of arbitrary justice.

That's not what I said or have ever said and you should know that.

You're the one who even suggested liability should be judged by the electorate.

I'm for proper documentation, laws, relevant questions and answers to those questions. As it is Ms. Yingluck hasn't provided any. A 'self-financing' scheme defended when she was told frequently it wasn't and it couldn't. Ms. Yingluck stating in parliament to be in charge. Now you wonder about liability? The records show all this, objectively. The people involved condemned themselves by those statements.

[Thai at Heart]

Both sides have their black sheep. Which side most depends on ones preference only I think.

Still whether just 'negligence' or 'negligence induced corruption' or 'criminal behaviour' doesn't really matter much in the sense that with the 'accused side' more-or-less shouting 'political ploy' the politicians involved think they can get off. If this country is to evolve politicians must be held accountable. Following more and more other people can be held accountable. Till a situation is reached where it's deemed normal to do politics and business in a transparent, accountable manner.

Reforms will only be successful when binding to all even if that means those who asked will feel sorry they did so. IMHO.

So you don't care how any of this is achieved, as long as in your eyes it gets done to your satisfaction. The very spirit of arbitrary justice.

That's not what I said or have ever said and you should know that.

You're the one who even suggested liability should be judged by the electorate.

I'm for proper documentation, laws, relevant questions and answers to those questions. As it is Ms. Yingluck hasn't provided any. A 'self-financing' scheme defended when she was told frequently it wasn't and it couldn't. Ms. Yingluck stating in parliament to be in charge. Now you wonder about liability? The records show all this, objectively. The people involved condemned themselves by those statements.

You gave three options for negligence. It does matter for what they catch her for because to be respected as a decision it has to be proportional and logical.

[binjalin]

you guys check the EU CAP? it is perfectly NORMAL to protect farmers with subsidy - this is NOT about that it's about *********************(censored)

if you can't 'get it' or are too lazy to research or are too stupid what can those who 'know' do???

[Thai at Heart]

you guys check the EU CAP? it is perfectly NORMAL to protect farmers with subsidy - this is NOT about that it's about *********************(censored)

if you can't 'get it' or are too lazy to research or are too stupid what can those who 'know' do???

Now I am going to cause a storm and say I disagree. They should find a way to prevent politicians cooking up crazy schemes that they claim wont cost a penny and implementing them at a massive cost. But, it has to be reliable, independent and legally provable.

She was at least economic with the truth, didn't understand how the system would work and tried desperately to cover the impending losses up by making up that there was going be some GtoG business to China.

All causing losses. So please, implement a law that all government policies must be costed and budgeted INDEPENDENTLY by an INDEPENDENT senate committee to give an opinion about whether they are fiscally prudent. Pass a law that limits the fiscal borrowing to 2% of gdp etc etc. Don't just cook up that this policy is ok, and that isn't. Make the politicians jump through hoops to produce rational and reasonable policies. AND APPLY IT TO ALL SIDES.

But don't retrospectively turn up and create a crime out of a policy because it was or wasnt bigger or smaller, or nicer, or worse than something else. The goal posts should be quantified, and the rules established for the game to be played. Under the rules at the time that Yingluck was playing, she broke none.

[halloween]

I don't think she should be held liable by a court. In fact, her liability should have been judged by the electorate. Being useless isn't a crime. Having policies that cost the country money isnt a crime, least of all to be judged by a blatently partisan group put in power by a coup. This just doesn't pass scrutiny in my eyes.

As Thaksin found out, electorates are much easier to bribe than courts. And fool.

[halloween]

you guys check the EU CAP? it is perfectly NORMAL to protect farmers with subsidy - this is NOT about that it's about *********************(censored)

if you can't 'get it' or are too lazy to research or are too stupid what can those who 'know' do???

Please stop the subsidy BS. The rice scam was an election bribe which only worked because the voters were too stupid to read the fine print, which excluded nearly all those who thought they would benefit.

[MAJIC]

Perhaps it's just me,but it seems the criminal deeds and corruption are set up for a prosecution,but I only see odd nobodies going to prison!

[greenchair]

They can purge the country of anybody associated with pt.

They can put all of their own in every government position that has any power.

Still,if the votes were put in the hands of the people. The Democrats would not win. All those pt supporters would simply vote for one of those 70 different parties that are available. The Dems need to accept that the people do not want them in power.

[halloween]

They can purge the country of anybody associated with pt.

They can put all of their own in every government position that has any power.

Still,if the votes were put in the hands of the people. The Democrats would not win. All those pt supporters would simply vote for one of those 70 different parties that are available. The Dems need to accept that the people do not want them in power.

And those 70 parties will form a coalition headed by the party with the largest number of seats. Guess who?

[TheClog]

700 billion?

Still say what's the current government doing to mitigate the loss to the taxpayer .

700 billion?

Chicken feed compared to the Military budget down the years

[chainarong]

Just get on with it and stop speculation , talk about becoming a pain in the arse , either impeach or all go and have a drink , this topic is becoming as boring as General Prayut - O take on morals and happiness.

[MAJIC]

So, the State loses 700 billion Baht on a 'self-financing' scheme, the PM stated in parliament that she and only she was in charge and some here still sprout nonsense?

The very fact of 700 billion Baht loss on a self-financing scheme with various persons involved having gone on record that there wasn't a problem and still these questions? It would seem the people involved have done their best to pin it on themselves.

It still doesn't confer criminal liability.

Just liability as result of negligence not enough for you?

I don't think she should be held liable by a court. In fact, her liability should have been judged by the electorate. Being useless isn't a crime. Having policies that cost the country money isnt a crime, least of all to be judged by a blatently partisan group put in power by a coup. This just doesn't pass scrutiny in my eyes.

So basically in your estimation Yingluck can be guilty of anything,and you will still be a willing desciple.

I'm sure the people would much rather have the lost money by liability,incompetence,being useless, etc returned,and duly judged by the Electorate,who will most likely: will never have the priveledge to be asked,their opinion!

[thesetat2013]

Cant wait to see how they dress this up as criminal behaviour.

Accessory to defraud the state?

Dress it up? In case you didn't know 'negligence' is a criminal offense! Just one of which she is surely guilty of.

[thesetat2013]

They can purge the country of anybody associated with pt.

They can put all of their own in every government position that has any power.

Still,if the votes were put in the hands of the people. The Democrats would not win. All those pt supporters would simply vote for one of those 70 different parties that are available. The Dems need to accept that the people do not want them in power.

Who cares if the Dems win! That is not the point. What is important is making these crooks accountable for their actions while in Gov.

Your twist putting this all about elections is not a valid point in this topic.

[scorecard]

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So, the State loses 700 billion Baht on a 'self-financing' scheme, the PM stated in parliament that she and only she was in charge and some here still sprout nonsense?

The very fact of 700 billion Baht loss on a self-financing scheme with various persons involved having gone on record that there wasn't a problem and still these questions? It would seem the people involved have done their best to pin it on themselves.

It still doesn't confer criminal liability.

Just liability as result of negligence not enough for you?

I don't think she should be held liable by a court. In fact, her liability should have been judged by the electorate. Being useless isn't a crime. Having policies that cost the country money isnt a crime, least of all to be judged by a blatently partisan group put in power by a coup. This just doesn't pass scrutiny in my eyes.

Your struggling now, just keeping your posting count up?

[rickirs]

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Cant wait to see how they dress this up as criminal behaviour.

Accessory to defraud the state?

If, as the Democrats charged, the rice pledge program was a predcitable failure that will cost the State billions of baht, where is the fraud? Fraud is a deception. The program clealry, accepting the Democrats prediction of cost, was a subsidy to uplift farmer incomes irrespective of market prices - in essence welfare. The PTP never presented the program as having a different intent.

[cornishcarlos]

Suspended sentence. They haven't got the balls.

Who needs balls when you've got guns. This isn't a game.

That is all it is, one big game....

The loser being Thailand !

[scorecard]

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<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Cant wait to see how they dress this up as criminal behaviour.

Accessory to defraud the state?

If, as the Democrats charged, the rice pledge program was a predcitable failure that will cost the State billions of baht, where is the fraud? Fraud is a deception. The program clealry, accepting the Democrats prediction of cost, was a subsidy to uplift farmer incomes irrespective of market prices - in essence welfare. The PTP never presented the program as having a different intent.

Quote: "The PTP never presented the program as having a different intent."

Well they are not likely to advertise the scam.

I could buy a nice car and advertise that I will take you from A to B in comfort.

I'm not going to advertise that my real intent is to rip you off with exhorbabant fares.

[cornishcarlos]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Cant wait to see how they dress this up as criminal behaviour.

Accessory to defraud the state?

If, as the Democrats charged, the rice pledge program was a predcitable failure that will cost the State billions of baht, where is the fraud? Fraud is a deception. The program clealry, accepting the Democrats prediction of cost, was a subsidy to uplift farmer incomes irrespective of market prices - in essence welfare. The PTP never presented the program as having a different intent.

That would certainly sound better if all the billions that disappeared had gone to the farmers..

Did the billions go to the farmers ?

Mmmmmmmm, not sure you're honor, I was shopping in Dubai

[Tatsujin]

Well, with other Ministers now being charged, and over 100 rice millers being investigated, it won't be hard to see where all the money actually went to, it certainly didn't go to the "poor farmers" as was the stated intent of the project from the beginning.

It was also never touted as a "subsidy", and that it would be "self-financing" which certainly wasn't the case.

The political affiliations, owners and benefactors of those rice millers will be interesting to see. There's a money trail leading right back to Dubai which shouldn't be hard to find if they do their jobs properly.

EDIT: Two of the firms being looked into are Siam Indica and Siralai, both of which were involved in the fake G2G deals, both of which have close ties to the man in Dubai.

And it seems like she's being charged with "dereliction of duty" at the moment for not stopping or investigating the scheme when it was pointed out to her in 2012 that there were dodgy dealings going on and she did nothing about it.

[Baerboxer]

So, the State loses 700 billion Baht on a 'self-financing' scheme, the PM stated in parliament that she and only she was in charge and some here still sprout nonsense?

The very fact of 700 billion Baht loss on a self-financing scheme with various persons involved having gone on record that there wasn't a problem and still these questions? It would seem the people involved have done their best to pin it on themselves.

It still doesn't confer criminal liability.

Maybe - but ever heard the expression criminal negligence?

Also, we don't know what, if anything, they have turned up. The prosecution and legal services here can appear inefficient, ineffective and lazy at times, but can also be very diligent, thorough and dig out the detail when they want too. Maybe something tied to the fraud already identified with forged export invoices? Maybe some singing to save themselves by handing over a bigger fish. Or just political hot air? We shall see - but interesting if the NACC and OAG actually agree on something for once. If so, that suggests evidence.

[halloween]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

If, as the Democrats charged, the rice pledge program was a predcitable failure that will cost the State billions of baht, where is the fraud? Fraud is a deception. The program clealry, accepting the Democrats prediction of cost, was a subsidy to uplift farmer incomes irrespective of market prices - in essence welfare. The PTP never presented the program as having a different intent.

That defence is about as believable as Tarit changing the definition of perjury to protect the guilty. The Democrats predicted failure, Yingluk denied it claiming it would raise the incomes of the POOREST rice farmers - who didn't even get a sniff of her farts.

[Baerboxer]

you guys check the EU CAP? it is perfectly NORMAL to protect farmers with subsidy - this is NOT about that it's about *********************(censored)

if you can't 'get it' or are too lazy to research or are too stupid what can those who 'know' do???

PTP did not present this as an agricultural subsidy.

A very large amount of money is missing and cannot (or will not) be accounted for. It appears real financial management wasn't used.

The operational aspects of the scheme are riddled with issues even though the PM repeatedly stated there were none.

Some people have profited from this scheme - but not those who the scheme's stated intention was to help. There has been suggestions of fraud and theft.

PTP's hoped this would be self financing by them manipulating and controlling the world rice prices - wonder where any profits would have gone if they'd been successful?

Their fall back was to raid the 2.2 trillion loan they hoped to get which they wanted free from parliamentary control and shrouded in their usual financial mystery meaningless contradictory mumbo jumbo game.

PTP, when challenged, including the then first female PM of Thailand, simply lied, and lied and told more lies.

Do you think any country in the West would have tolerated such a situation and allowed those responsible to simply walk away? Without a very thorough and public inquiry?

You can try and deflect, as usual, by claiming it's all part of the big picture, the overall struggle for power, part of the game plan exacted against the Shins all you want,

But that doesn't change the fact that 700 billion ThB appears to be missing, unaccounted for, and Thailand's first female PM can't, doesn't want to provide answers or seeks to hide things. Despite the fact that she made very clear statement that there were no problems and that she was in charge of it all.

[Baerboxer]

So, the State loses 700 billion Baht on a 'self-financing' scheme, the PM stated in parliament that she and only she was in charge and some here still sprout nonsense?

The very fact of 700 billion Baht loss on a self-financing scheme with various persons involved having gone on record that there wasn't a problem and still these questions? It would seem the people involved have done their best to pin it on themselves.

It still doesn't confer criminal liability.

Just liability as result of negligence not enough for you?

I don't think she should be held liable by a court. In fact, her liability should have been judged by the electorate. Being useless isn't a crime. Having policies that cost the country money isnt a crime, least of all to be judged by a blatently partisan group put in power by a coup. This just doesn't pass scrutiny in my eyes.

So you think politicians should be immune from prosecution - for negligence, fraud, lying, deliberately misleading, failing to do their sworn duty etc. And that they should not be judged by a court of law, but only by the electorate,

Do you mean in an election so their only punishment would be loss of office, regardless of any act, criminal or otherwise?

Interesting version of democracy that. Do you know of any country that runs that way? Putting it's politicians above the law? NK, Zimbabwe, maybe?

[The Deerhunter]

Just liability as result of negligence not enough for you?

I don't think she should be held liable by a court. In fact, her liability should have been judged by the electorate. Being useless isn't a crime. Having policies that cost the country money isnt a crime, least of all to be judged by a blatently partisan group put in power by a coup. This just doesn't pass scrutiny in my eyes.

'liability' judged by the electorate? Now you're dreaming.

What a good idea, but buy the electorate off first. Sorry mate they were doing that too. That is why the Shin clan's loudest catch-cry is "Let's have an election." They are still hopeful they can still control the electorate by bribes, local official threats and actual violence. Yes both colours are guilty, but the Shins have stolen more, quicker and more blatantly than any governmentin recent memory. Read "The Jungle book" and no, not the one by Rudyard Kipling. I got my copy at Asia books. Must still be in print.

[The Deerhunter]

So, the State loses 700 billion Baht on a 'self-financing' scheme, the PM stated in parliament that she and only she was in charge and some here still sprout nonsense?

The very fact of 700 billion Baht loss on a self-financing scheme with various persons involved having gone on record that there wasn't a problem and still these questions? It would seem the people involved have done their best to pin it on themselves.

It still doesn't confer criminal liability.

Just liability as result of negligence not enough for you?

I don't think she should be held liable by a court. In fact, her liability should have been judged by the electorate. Being useless isn't a crime. Having policies that cost the country money isnt a crime, least of all to be judged by a blatently partisan group put in power by a coup. This just doesn't pass scrutiny in my eyes.

So you think politicians should be immune from prosecution - for negligence, fraud, lying, deliberately misleading, failing to do their sworn duty etc. And that they should not be judged by a court of law, but only by the electorate,

Do you mean in an election so their only punishment would be loss of office, regardless of any act, criminal or otherwise?

Interesting version of democracy that. Do you know of any country that runs that way? Putting it's politicians above the law? NK, Zimbabwe, maybe?

"So you think politicians should be immune from prosecution - for negligence, fraud, lying, deliberately misleading, failing to do their sworn duty etc. And that they should not be judged by a court of law, but only by the electorate," Of course he does! The Amart of the North can do no wrong in the opinion of their fan club. But only these politicians, but no lenience for "but, but, but Suthep & Mark" . The high jump for them! Really, this Red/PTP fanclub makes me sick.

[Trouble]

I think it is rather easy to indict her but let's see what evidence they present and how it is used. Let's see if the conduct of this case in the Thai courts matches what would take place in a western court. A majority of the posters on TV seem to have no faith in the Thai justice system as evidenced from most postings whenever something comes up about the courts. This whole matter is a politically contrived show. No matter what side of the fence we may fine ourselves on the Yingluck issue, we all know the outcome will depend on what the military wants. They are the ones running the show. It is too bad it is not televised from beginning to end with English subtitles. It should be quite a soap opera.

I really don't know what her involvement is as far as encouraging, supporting, or taking part in corruption, but if all that has occurred is negligence or stupidity on her part then probably a good percentage of all politicians the world over should be on trial as well.