A Thai Oxymoron - "Safety First" - It's Not Happening

[redandyellow]

I took this picture on Phuket, near the bypass (another oxymoron).

The workers have shirts on, saying SAFETY FIRST, whilst hanging off the back of the truck ,

That's not happening, anywhere in Thailand, SAFETY FIRST, that is..

I've seen women tying re-bar barefoot, on Koh Samui, with crap all over the construction site , nails sticking out of wood, strewn about, etc..

Any other oxymorons out there that jumped out at you?

Edited January 27, 2015 by metisdead
Oversize font reset to normal. Please do not post using all caps, this includes topic titles.

[Costas2008]

Yep......that was when they were building my house

[kotsak]

Yep......that was when they were building my house

from kingston 445.jpg

At least he is not wearing flip-flops..

[WitawatWatawit]

Makes you wonder, especially when you hear stories that contractors build into their bids compensation for the families of workers killed on their sites, as it is cheaper to make an under-the-table pay-off to a poor Isan family than to institute proper safety precautions. If I am to believe even half of the stories I've heard over the years, then a lot of people* are being killed on construction sites, but the news is suppressed by the influential contractors who give the families a one- time payoff and a warning to shut their mouths.

* Can't quantify that figure, but on a certain high-rise tower being built on Bangna highway 20 years ago, reports filtered through about every three months of someone being killed and their bodies being quietly spirited away in the dead of night (actually witnessed once by a Thai colleague).

[Keesters]

Yep......that was when they were building my house

from kingston 445.jpg

At least he is not wearing flip-flops..

Or short pants and no helmet as I see so many farang wear while driving their scooters at 100kph on the highway. Edited January 27, 2015 by Keesters

[Morakot]

Makes you wonder, especially when you hear stories that contractors build into their bids compensation for the families of workers killed on their sites, as it is cheaper to make an under-the-table pay-off to a poor Isan family than to institute proper safety precautions. If I am to believe even half of the stories I've heard over the years, then a lot of people* are being killed on construction sites, but the news is suppressed by the influential contractors who give the families a one- time payoff and a warning to shut their mouths.

* Can't quantify that figure, but on a certain high-rise tower being built on Bangna highway 20 years ago, reports filtered through about every three months of someone being killed and their bodies being quietly spirited away in the dead of night (actually witnessed once by a Thai colleague).

Quite shocking, but might need to be seen in perspective. Building sites are notoriously precarious places. Not only in Thailand. I saw statistics on fatalities and serious accidents for the construction sector in the UK that showed figures are on average considerably higher than in the mining sector and other heavy industries.

At any the large scale construction sites in Bangkok, I have never seen any one wearing flip flops or the likes. The site next to my office, all workers --in full kit-- perform communal "warm up" aerobics in the morning.

For many local small-scale builders however the story seems rather different.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Morakot

[Morakot]

Yep......that was when they were building my house

from kingston 445.jpg

Looks proper to me. Below 6ft height no rails or guards are usually needed.

[WitawatWatawit]

Makes you wonder, especially when you hear stories that contractors build into their bids compensation for the families of workers killed on their sites, as it is cheaper to make an under-the-table pay-off to a poor Isan family than to institute proper safety precautions. If I am to believe even half of the stories I've heard over the years, then a lot of people* are being killed on construction sites, but the news is suppressed by the influential contractors who give the families a one- time payoff and a warning to shut their mouths.

* Can't quantify that figure, but on a certain high-rise tower being built on Bangna highway 20 years ago, reports filtered through about every three months of someone being killed and their bodies being quietly spirited away in the dead of night (actually witnessed once by a Thai colleague).

Quite shocking, but might need to be seen in perspective. Building sites are notoriously precarious places. Not only in Thailand. I saw statistics on fatalities and serious accidents for the construction sector in the UK that showed figures are on average considerably higher than in the mining sector and other heavy industries.

At any the large scale construction sites in Bangkok, I have never seen any one wearing flip flops or the likes. The site next to my office, all workers --in full kit-- perform communal "warm up" aerobics in the morning.

For many local small-scale builders however the story seems rather different.

Things do seem to have changed in recent years, so what I described above is probably not as prevalent these days, if at all. I still shudder at some of the "practices" I saw from my office window as that high-rise tower was being built. The Great Wallenda had nothing on some of these Thai workers. :)

[Seastallion]

Having been indoctrinated in workplace safety by a company I worked for (OTT, eg, no talking while walking up or down the stairs, and walk in single file with your hand on the handrail), I am quite horrified at times. There is a construction site next door, a 5 storey apartment block. No safety rails, no harnesses, no ear protection (with jack hammers, grinders, electric saws etc), no eye protection, no foot protection and so on. Welders peer through a gap in their fingers rather than use tinted goggles, and that's the ones that seem to care about their eyes, others just weld away looking at the flare. Using electric tools in the rain. Throwing wood and concrete rubbish off the top floor without caring if someone is below. Welding on the scaffold, knowing people are below; it's their look out if hot slag hits them.

The list goes on....I've witnessed it for 8 months and so far, no accidents....although most of these men and women will be deaf and or blind before their time.

And of course, there are food safety issues everywhere.

But hey....you farang just have to toughen up!

[Morakot]

Things do seem to have changed in recent years, so what I described above is probably not as prevalent these days, if at all. I still shudder at some of the "practices" I saw from my office window as that high-rise tower was being built. The Great Wallenda had nothing on some of these Thai workers.

See what you mean... actually I had to google this....

[krisb]

Yep......that was when they were building my house

from kingston 445.jpg

Looks proper to me. Below 6ft height no rails or guards are usually needed.

Domestic safety rules are up to the individual. Look at carpenters framing houses especially roofs anywhere in the world and it's not for the faint hearted walking around up there dragging a nail gun and air line with you.

Commercial sites have always been dangerous places. Over 350 Australians have died in the last 10 year's on sites, more than our soldiers in war zones. My mate saw a guy get crushed to death just before Christmas gone. 1 wrong move is all it takes.

Major Thai highrises the mind boggles. Workers will always die no matter how much safety is put in place, you can never eliminate all the risks.

[krisb]

[WitawatWatawit]

^^^ Typical Chinese. Can't even do the limbo right. (2nd pix)

[pigeonjake]

Yep......that was when they were building my house

from kingston 445.jpg

Looks proper to me. Below 6ft height no rails or guards are usually needed.

wrong,

it used to be 2mts,

but now its any height that there is a potential to fall, then harness shall be worn,

[Morakot]

Yep......that was when they were building my house

from kingston 445.jpg

Looks proper to me. Below 6ft height no rails or guards are usually needed.

wrong,

it used to be 2mts,

but now its any height that there is a potential to fall, then harness shall be worn,

Jake yes wearing a harness is one thing, but it needs to be attached to something proper. Where would have Costa's man attached to it to, to prevent him fallen down the 0.6 m?

Health and safety gone mad.

Edited January 27, 2015 by Morakot

[impulse]

For all you guys claiming Thais are idiots when it comes to safety, I present:

A little behind on the nanny regulations, maybe.

Idiots? I wouldn't say that to any of these guys. Not without a running head start.

Edited January 27, 2015 by impulse

[Soutpeel]

For all you guys claiming Thais are idiots when it comes to safety, I present:

A little behind on the nanny regulations, maybe.

Idiots? I wouldn't say that to any of these guys. Not without a running head start.

And out of those guys sitting on the beam how many died during the construction ?

that is famous photo from the Rockefeller centre circa 1932 and the fact was, for each floor constructed in New York at that time one man died

[Soutpeel]

Yep......that was when they were building my house

from kingston 445.jpg

Looks proper to me. Below 6ft height no rails or guards are usually needed.

wrong,

it used to be 2mts,

but now its any height that there is a potential to fall, then harness shall be worn,

Jake

Depends where you are working some places still have the 2.0m rule, fact is you can fall from 4 inches and break your neck

[chrisinth]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Having been indoctrinated in workplace safety by a company I worked for (OTT, eg, no talking while walking up or down the stairs, and walk in single file with your hand on the handrail), I am quite horrified at times. There is a construction site next door, a 5 storey apartment block. No safety rails, no harnesses, no ear protection (with jack hammers, grinders, electric saws etc), no eye protection, no foot protection and so on. Welders peer through a gap in their fingers rather than use tinted goggles, and that's the ones that seem to care about their eyes, others just weld away looking at the flare. Using electric tools in the rain. Throwing wood and concrete rubbish off the top floor without caring if someone is below. Welding on the scaffold, knowing people are below; it's their look out if hot slag hits them.

The list goes on....I've witnessed it for 8 months and so far, no accidents....although most of these men and women will be deaf and or blind before their time.

And of course, there are food safety issues everywhere.

But hey....you farang just have to toughen up!

Unfortunately, you then become part of the problem if you have been witnessing for 8 months without saying anything about it.

I know, I know, you think nobody would listen to you. Folks, if you see a potential accident waiting to happen, you should be responsible for doing something about it. Imagine if it is one of your children that is underneath weld spatter, dropped tools or discarded debris.

On every site I have been working at over the last decade in Thailand, the 'Stop' rule has been enforced. This enables anyone, from the cleaner to the MD to stop any operation they deem to be a potential hazard. Without comeback.

And yes, they have mostly been Thai companies.....................

NB: Not a dig at you Seastallion, but people should be aware. Safety is not just confined to the workspace and certainly not confined by people wearing (or not) the correct personal protective equipment.

Edited January 27, 2015 by chrisinth

[impulse]

For all you guys claiming Thais are idiots when it comes to safety, I present:

A little behind on the nanny regulations, maybe.

Idiots? I wouldn't say that to any of these guys. Not without a running head start.

And out of those guys sitting on the beam how many died during the construction ?

that is famous photo from the Rockefeller centre circa 1932 and the fact was, for each floor constructed in New York at that time one man died

You just reinforced my point. How many Thais died building that big honking building with the BMW wrap in Bangkok? Answer: A lot less than one per floor. Doesn't that mean the Thais are smarter and more skilled than the guys in the photo? (I think not.)

People are products of their surroundings, their education and their economics. Safety in an industrial environment isn't hard wired into our genetic material. It has to be taught, and learned and accepted and reinforced. And it's expensive.

I certainly don't advocate going back there to 1932, but the guys in that photo were proud of their ability to do dangerous work, were paid more than the guys doing safe jobs, and they accepted the risk. Didn't make them idiots.

And for every idiot picture people can post about Thais doing unsafe things, I can point to a dozen YouTube videos where my own country men trump them by a wide margin in stupidity. If I looked hard enough, I'm sure I could find where somebody posted a video of me doing something stupid. Real stupid.

Edited January 27, 2015 by impulse

[Berkshire]

And for every idiot picture people can post about Thais doing unsafe things, I can point to a dozen YouTube videos where my own country men trump them by a wide margin in stupidity. If I looked hard enough, I'm sure I could find where somebody posted a video of me doing something stupid. Real stupid.

Agree. Pretty easy to find pics of farangs doing insanely stupid things. There's even a TV show about it.

So what's the point of this thread, really? It's certainly not about making Thailand a safer place. Oh, so it's about making the OP feel high and mighty about himself. Not working. If farangs are really concerned about health and safety, how about looking in the mirror. When I see farangs doing things like drinking to excess, eating to excess, smoking to excess, not exercising, riding a motorbike without a helmet, laying out in the sun without protection, grossly obese, etc., etc., I pretty much think to myself, "hey, it's a free country." Too bad some of the folks here feel a need to meddle into others' personal lives.

[crickets]

Keeps the price of construction down. You want to pay for work inspectors, unions and safety gear. Suprisingly very few of them get injured anyway.

[marcusd]

Yep......that was when they were building my house

from kingston 445.jpg

Yes costas. I agree. It was so bad when building mine I went to homepro and bought gloves, hard hats, welders gloves and goggles and everything used in oz because I couldn't bear anyone being permanently hurt at my home.

Sadly, when they go,elsewhere, it will revert to no care

[Keesters]

There is safety and there is safety. People doing stupid things to themselves can be found all over the world and as long as they don't harm others then 'let them go ahead' is what I say. However businesses, government, adults need to act responsibly towards those in their employ or care. Failure to install and/or maintain sprinkler systems, locked fire exit doors, overcrowding in discos and nightclubs, selling of fireworks to young children who are only just big enough to strike a match or flick a lighter, are just some of the safety issues I have come across my time here. These need to be addressed seriously.

[Seastallion]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Having been indoctrinated in workplace safety by a company I worked for (OTT, eg, no talking while walking up or down the stairs, and walk in single file with your hand on the handrail), I am quite horrified at times. There is a construction site next door, a 5 storey apartment block. No safety rails, no harnesses, no ear protection (with jack hammers, grinders, electric saws etc), no eye protection, no foot protection and so on. Welders peer through a gap in their fingers rather than use tinted goggles, and that's the ones that seem to care about their eyes, others just weld away looking at the flare. Using electric tools in the rain. Throwing wood and concrete rubbish off the top floor without caring if someone is below. Welding on the scaffold, knowing people are below; it's their look out if hot slag hits them.

The list goes on....I've witnessed it for 8 months and so far, no accidents....although most of these men and women will be deaf and or blind before their time.

And of course, there are food safety issues everywhere.

But hey....you farang just have to toughen up!

Unfortunately, you then become part of the problem if you have been witnessing for 8 months without saying anything about it.

I know, I know, you think nobody would listen to you. Folks, if you see a potential accident waiting to happen, you should be responsible for doing something about it. Imagine if it is one of your children that is underneath weld spatter, dropped tools or discarded debris.

On every site I have been working at over the last decade in Thailand, the 'Stop' rule has been enforced. This enables anyone, from the cleaner to the MD to stop any operation they deem to be a potential hazard. Without comeback.

And yes, they have mostly been Thai companies.....................

NB: Not a dig at you Seastallion, but people should be aware. Safety is not just confined to the workspace and certainly not confined by people wearing (or not) the correct personal protective equipment.

No dig felt...

Actually, I have spoken up a few times. The first was when a stack of tiles prevented the scaffolders putting a vertical where it was supposed to go...they just let the vertical that was supposed to be a "leg" on the ground hang in mid air above the tiles. I spoke to one of the leading hands and said the entire structure is unstable because of it.....a week later he had labourers move the tiles and anchor the upright properly. A week later, mind you!.

I also lectured the wife on ear safety, who then spoke to the matriarch of the soi (who appreciated the advice), who then spoke to the young chap I was concerned about. He listened politely, but has done nothing about wearing ear protection. The older chaps are already deaf, so it makes no difference.

[Seastallion]

For all you guys claiming Thais are idiots when it comes to safety, I present:

A little behind on the nanny regulations, maybe.

Idiots? I wouldn't say that to any of these guys. Not without a running head start.

I used to look forward to the chance to do things like that....now just looking at the photo makes me giddy.

[pigeonjake]

Yep......that was when they were building my house

from kingston 445.jpg

Looks proper to me. Below 6ft height no rails or guards are usually needed.

wrong,

it used to be 2mts,

but now its any height that there is a potential to fall, then harness shall be worn,

Jake

Depends where you are working some places still have the 2.0m rule, fact is you can fall from 4 inches and break your neck

the HSE says any hieght,

i agree with you ive worked many places were there induction still says 2mtrs

and ive pointed it out to them, they say these are our rules, and ive said but your rules must be governed by the HSE, act 1974 with aditions,

they are updating the safety at work act all the time, some just dont like to follow it all the time, but the sh#t will hit the fan one day im sure

[Morakot]

Depends where you are working some places still have the 2.0m rule, fact is you can fall from 4 inches and break your neck

the HSE says any hieght,

i agree with you ive worked many places were there induction still says 2mtrs

and ive pointed it out to them, they say these are our rules, and ive said but your rules must be governed by the HSE, act 1974 with aditions,

they are updating the safety at work act all the time, some just dont like to follow it all the time, but the sh#t will hit the fan one day im sure

Jake a tip for making your case in the future. The Health and Safety at Work etc. Act 1974 is the current primary legalisations on the matter. It provides a legal frame. The specifics are dealt in secondary legislation called Statuary Instruments. The current one for working at height is called The Work at Height Regulations 2005.

Now back to Thailand.

Edited January 28, 2015 by Morakot