THAI to downsize and reduce routes

[BKKdreaming]

I took the BKK to LAX flight last week with a stopover in Korea

it was just OK , not great and not bad , Price

was the same as the others (high) because it was Christmas time

I will hate to see it go as UNITED has lost me with the one only free suitcase on International ,

EVA here I come.....

[wpcoe]

I took the BKK to LAX flight last week with a stopover in Korea

it was just OK , not great and not bad , Price

was the same as the others (high) because it was Christmas time

I will hate to see it go as UNITED has lost me with the one only free suitcase on International ,

EVA here I come.....

Trans-Pacific, I think UA still allows two free checked bags ("Up to 62.0 linear inches (157cm) L + W + H and 50.0 lbs (23 kg) per bag") in Economy.

See: http://www.united.com/CMS/en-US/travel/Pages/CheckedBaggage.aspx -- I input HKG-SFO, TPE-SFO and NRT-LAX as random city pairs and they all said two free bags in Economy.

[Phatcharanan]

National airlines are often a direct reflection of a country and its government.

The number of military families now flying business on Thai is quite noticeable - all on military salaries

Yeah.....sure.

And you know this coz they're all dressed in battle fatigues.

[Phatcharanan]

Every airline is suffering. Every single one.

The whole world economy has reached its ponsey scheme heights

Qatar Airways would disagree with you seeing as how they are expanding their routes.

[Xircal]

Thai-air is far too expensive. If they just dropped the price their planes would be full and make profit.

But since they are Thai they would rather increase the price i guess.

Yes, indeed. They don't fly to the Netherlands at all, but I saw the annoucement when they first started the Bangkok-Brussels route and looked at it seriously since I wanted to see what they were like. They even allocated a new 777-200ER to the route, but the ticket price was exhorbitant and around €300 more than other airlines so I didn't bother.

The only time I got to fly THAI was a codeshare flight with Emirates where the return leg BKK-DXB was on an old THAI 777-200. The aircraft didn't have any form of entertainment at all even though it was an eight hour flight. Needless to say, I wasn't very impressed.

[rametindallas]

Some history:

January 25, 2010: Thai Airways launches cultural overhaul http://2bangkok.com/2bangkok-news-12802.html

June 3, 2012: We ask why the CEO of Thai Airways has been fired for leading a financial turnaround. http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/countingthecost/2012/06/201261173644827366.html

October 1, 2012: Financial guru Faber: “Strange” that the government gets to appoint Thaksin cronies to head large companies http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/Financial-guru-Faber-knocks-Thai-cronyism-pledging-30191411.html

September 2, 2013: Is Thai Airways Sixth President since 2000 already gone? http://www.traveldailynews.asia/news/article/53337/is-thai-airways-sixth-president

June 10, 2014: Junta cancels free flights for THAI board members http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingnews/Junta-cancels-free-flights-of-THIA-board-members-30235895.html

[EyesWideOpen]

By By Star Alliance.

It's prudent to axe those routes. Low yield potential.

Thai I doing the right think in my stupid opinion.

Every airline is suffering. Every single one.

The whole world economy has reached its ponsey scheme heights

How can airlines be suffering ? Fuel is the main component of their costs,

and it has just dropped in half. I would think the airlines would be throwing

parties !! I was sort of hoping the in the revamp of this airline all the endless

free business class tickets would be stopped. But now I am afraid that

instead of political cronies flying for free, it will now be military personnel.

[Thai at Heart]

By By Star Alliance.

It's prudent to axe those routes. Low yield potential.

Thai I doing the right think in my stupid opinion.

Every airline is suffering. Every single one.

The whole world economy has reached its ponsey scheme heights

How can airlines be suffering ? Fuel is the main component of their costs,

and it has just dropped in half. I would think the airlines would be throwing

parties !! I was sort of hoping the in the revamp of this airline all the endless

free business class tickets would be stopped. But now I am afraid that

instead of political cronies flying for free, it will now be military personnel.

Evidently Thai's business model has fuel at a too high a component.

The thing is a gravy train, pure and simple, just being milked to death by whoeevr is in power on the day. Seeing stuffed shirts and medals sitting on the board of companies is just a sign that no one should touch them as an investment with a barge pole

[hawker9000]

...an airline that just doesn't know how to compete. Overpriced and overstaffed (at the top and among those who're simply past their sell-by date in the passenger cabins), where it hurts the most. It's a cultural weakness, thoroughly "baked in", and not one that's going to be overcome by cutting routes. The fact that that is their solution demonstrates they simply don't get it. No surprise there. Rockier roads ahead for THAI.

[duckmandon]

I regularly fly BKK to Brisbane/ Brisbane to BKK & the plane is always full. Hope they don't axe this flight as it will make it a long journey home to Aus.

[madmitch]

Did THAI start to become uncompetitive at the time of its major strengthening against many world currencies a few years back? I'm not sure but I suppose that would make sense as they no doubt do all their workings in the national currency. Probably never adjusted.

[geriatrickid]

About six months ago the razor sharp minds at Thai decided to dramatically devalue the returns on membership of its frequent flyer program. They managed to alienate a very significant proportion of regular flyers and were forced to back down after a passenger backlash. I suspect many of those member have been building allegiance to other carriers in anticipation of the proposal coming back. The management of Thai seemed CLUELESS in respect of the relationship between passengers and loyalty rewards and were on the verge of destroying the program.

Were it no for govt investment and national pride Thai would go under.

Where have you been for the last 3 years? ALL of the airlines have gutted their FF programs. Have you seen what Delta has done? It is next to impossible to book a long haul in a premium class, and when you do, it is usually 250-350,000 skymiles. Delta now links status to miles flown on its own metal and not on skymile member metal. Air Canada has followed suit and has the infamous "scam charges" which can add $1000+ to a ticket in business class North America to Thailand. Try getting a seat on Singapore Airlines if you are a member of any of the *A programs. You will find that there is no availability until 30 days before the travel date. EVA's points expire as do American Airlines and so it goes. The FF dedicated forums are full of laments about a bygone era. It's gone, done and over.

You want the airline to offer rewards in a market where the consumer has no loyalty and shops based upon price? If that wasn't the case, why would Singapore have started its Scoot venture. and why would Air Canada have launched its much hated Rouge division? Flying today isn't the same as it was 5 years ago, and you cannot expect the airlines to offer the same benefits as before. FF points are valued at next to nothing and can be earned with credit card purchases etc. The programs were devalued years ago.

The reality is that the cost to fly in real dollars/Euros/baht is much less today than when the FF programs were started. As such, you cannot expect the FF programs to have offered the same rewards as they did previously. I don't like it, and there isn't one FF who is happy. However, this isn't TG's doing.

[Ricardo]

Seems THAI airways is having similar projlems to Britains flagship airline British airways.

Actually British Airways & their holding-company IAG are doing pretty well these days, one might not like their service, but they've shed the government-ownership and emerged as a successful company in a cut-throat industry.

Not a bad example for THAI to follow !

Edited January 28, 2015 by Ricardo

[steve187]

Seems THAI airways is having similar projlems to Britains flagship airline British airways.

Actually British Airways & their holding-company IAG are doing pretty well these days, one might not like their service, but they've shed the government-ownership and emerged as a successful company in a cut-throat industry.

Not a bad example for THAI to follow !

IAG shares a low of 306.40p in July to a high of 567.50p today, so they must be doing something good, and the route lhr/bkk always high passenger numbers.

Thai Air always expensive when i look to book

[geriatrickid]

How can airlines be suffering ? Fuel is the main component of their costs,and it has just dropped in half. I would think the airlines would be throwing

parties !! I was sort of hoping the in the revamp of this airline all the endless free business class tickets would be stopped. But now I am afraid that

instead of political cronies flying for free, it will now be military personnel.

Yes, jet fuel costs in the Asian region have dropped by 40%+ in the past year. However, your comment on fuel costs in regard to TG has to be put in context. Here's why;

- Fuel costs have always formed a larger component of operational costs for Asian airlines, more so than any other region.

- The economic conditions hit Asian airlines hard. Profits at CX, and SQ nosedived also, although not as bad as at TG.

- The fuel costs savings have been more dramatic for those airlines that have newer, more efficient fleets. TG has some old equipment, which is not efficient. The average age for the long haul equipment, the planes that burn the most fuel are;

B777 - 9.6 years.

B747 - 17.6 years

B330 - 8.8 years.

Bit of a contrast with Cathay Pacific

B777 - 6.7 years.

B747 - 9 years

B330 - 7.4 years

The end result is that while raw fuel costs have decreased, if one is still flying inefficient equipment, the savings are not as great. This is why airlines like AC dumped many of its older jets in favour of new B787s and B777s and has more on order.

Cathay only turned the corner on profitability last August and had been in trouble for some time. What CX did was to renew its fleet. It implemented strategic planning years ago for fleet renewal and it moved it forward when the economy tanked. TG did not respond during tough times. TG has always hesitated when it came to purchasing new equipment and it had to be near crisis in order to get a purchase approved.

The issue at Thai airways has always been its leadership and its board of directors. A review of the biographies of the board indicates that it is not made up of people who have long term experience in the international financial sector. Thai Airways is like a job site for the military. There are 4 Air marshals on the board, and a Lt. General. I doubt those 5 board members understand what it is to run a for profit airline. They come from a sector where the funding was given to the military in ever increasing increments and it was never dependent upon such market vagaries such as load factors or fuel costs. They never had to deal with labour contracts or the costs of pensions when they were in the military. (Military pension obligations are the obligation of the civil government, not the military and there are no labour unions in the military.)

The TG board is bloated with 16 members. Quite a contrast with Air Canada's 10 or Singapore's 8. or British Airways 11. The largest airline in the world, American Airlines only has 11 board members. I don't think any of the board members at TG comes close to the qualifications and experience of the people who serve on the aforementioned boards.

The problems at TG start with its board of directors. They in turn control the hiring of senior executives and typically hire from the same pot that the board comes from. If TG is to be turned around, it must start with a new board of directors, an end to the use of the airline as a place to park military personnel and the introduction of qualified people who understand the principles of airline finance. Thai Smile was a slow step in the right direction. Unfortunately, we are about to see a downsized airline that restricts itself to long haul routes and the days of premium cabins on domestic routes will soon be over.

[Rinrada]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

They got to do something before they become a real " baskit case"...although national pride wont allow....and wont happen...

As an X Gold Card FF member I dropped them a couple of years ago after they left me stuck...without a paddle...and 6 months of emails....arrgg..dump them....

Still recon on a good product but they are living in the clouds..

Just ran a quick check on our summer round trips fares for later this year on various budgie operators.....left out the likes of Voodoo ,Taliban and Bod-git airways....not a surprise....1x Person Return......Decisions...decisions....jao...

• £540 Austrian Airlines
• £591 British Airways
• £603 Cathay Pacific
• £751 Emirates
• £419 Etihad Airways
• £755 EVA Air
• £509 Finnair
• £689 KLM
• £693 Malaysia Airlines
• £382 Oman Air
• £411 Qatar Airways
• £821 Singapore Airlines
• £589 Swiss
• £1,057 Thai Airways

Thats a very revealing post. Well done, but what is the destination country?

At those prices, it's a wonder THAI has any customers at all.

London Heathrow to Bangkok....

[rickirs]

Ideas for improved Thai Airways ticket sales:

- Change name to Martial Airways, each plane to carry a military LINE sticker on tail/wings, inside decorated with 12 Values LINE stockers

- Offer discounted "Having Fun in Martial Law" tourist packages

- Have constitution requireThais to use only Martial Airways to/from Thailand

- Pass a law that farangs must fly Martial Airways to/from Thailand

- Provide Thais with income tax deductions for flying Martial Airways

- Frequent flyers can earn Get Out of RTP Searches passes, free urine sample cups, fake 1,000baht notes, etc.

- Free Happiness meals (rice in palm oil)

- Free seating and boarding priority for Bt2,000 (farang Bt34000)

- Discounted one-way nonstop flights to Pyongyang, North Korea (free if military)

Edited January 28, 2015 by rickirs

[docshock13]

With what seems to be a poorly thought through restructuring plan, I feel this is the beginning of the end for THAI.

Too bad. Used to be a world-class airline years ago (IMO).

Tried Korean Air years ago on a trip from BKK to YVR as I could have my bags checked through to Canada, it was cheaper, and very quick layover to change planes. (I would usually take THAI to Narita and Scare Canada to YVR--both airlines are expensive and IMO offer some of the worst service in the industry).

Excellent experience on KAL and have not been disappointed since!

[MaxLee]

Ultimate main Route

CHINA, NORTH KOREA!!!!!!!!!

.... and the "looking-down-on countries" of ASEAN

[thaiguzzi]

Something familiar here... Bloated amount of board of directors - bloated amount of generals/admirals/air force marshals in the serving armed forces...

[geriatrickid]

With what seems to be a poorly thought through restructuring plan, I feel this is the beginning of the end for THAI.

Too bad. Used to be a world-class airline years ago (IMO).

Tried Korean Air years ago on a trip from BKK to YVR as I could have my bags checked through to Canada, it was cheaper, and very quick layover to change planes. (I would usually take THAI to Narita and Scare Canada to YVR--both airlines are expensive and IMO offer some of the worst service in the industry).

Excellent experience on KAL and have not been disappointed since!

Surprised that you use the term Scare Canada for AC in comparison with Korean. You may be unaware that AC has an excellent safety record and rating. With the deployment of the AC B787 vs the aged KAL B777-200 or B747-400 on this route it's a bit of a game changer. The KAL of years ago isn't the KAL of today. You will find that its service has been cut back just like other major airlines. You'll also find that the AC hub for transit to YVR is Haneda and Incheon now. AC has reduced its Narita service. The Bangkok to Korea routing with AC uses Asiana, which is considered superior to KAL. Most of the AC connections out of Haneda and Narita are on ANA. If you are flying on one ticket, your bags are checked through to YVR if you start with TG and connect to AC. They have an interline agreement and are *A. If you want to try something new and of good quality give EVA a try. They often have promotions. You may also want to consider the CX to HKG connection to AC YVR. The schedule tends to be a bit better.

[docshock13]

With what seems to be a poorly thought through restructuring plan, I feel this is the beginning of the end for THAI.

Too bad. Used to be a world-class airline years ago (IMO).

Tried Korean Air years ago on a trip from BKK to YVR as I could have my bags checked through to Canada, it was cheaper, and very quick layover to change planes. (I would usually take THAI to Narita and Scare Canada to YVR--both airlines are expensive and IMO offer some of the worst service in the industry).

Excellent experience on KAL and have not been disappointed since!

Surprised that you use the term Scare Canada for AC in comparison with Korean. You may be unaware that AC has an excellent safety record and rating. With the deployment of the AC B787 vs the aged KAL B777-200 or B747-400 on this route it's a bit of a game changer. The KAL of years ago isn't the KAL of today. You will find that its service has been cut back just like other major airlines. You'll also find that the AC hub for transit to YVR is Haneda and Incheon now. AC has reduced its Narita service. The Bangkok to Korea routing with AC uses Asiana, which is considered superior to KAL. Most of the AC connections out of Haneda and Narita are on ANA. If you are flying on one ticket, your bags are checked through to YVR if you start with TG and connect to AC. They have an interline agreement and are *A. If you want to try something new and of good quality give EVA a try. They often have promotions. You may also want to consider the CX to HKG connection to AC YVR. The schedule tends to be a bit better.

Thanks for the updated info! Been a few years since I was over that way.

[chotthee]

We must all thanks THAI for kicking the Thaksin govt out and let the army in.

Thank you 3 times.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Hope their staff downsizing is built on a specific model of what they want to retain, mostly focused on attitudes and service orientation.

I had an incident with them some years back flying business class to Jakarta with my 18 yr old Thai son sitting next to me on a full fare ticket, between meals (all quiet in the cabin) he politely asked for a glass of coca cola. The response from the arrogant hostess, "go and ask in economy class" and she just walked away. I objected, supervisor arrives and loudly kept proclaiming "it's just a misunderstanding" with the original hostie refusing to come back to the seat. I then asked for a glass of coca cola, when it came I pushed the girls arm so that she put the glass in front of my son. Ten minutes later another hostie came to my seat and said "why are you so rude to my friend, she comes from a famous family".

Three letters to Thai all ignored.

Here's more examples:

1. I worked for a multinational management consultancy for many years, here in Bangkok. Maybe 10 years back, as part of a drive for improvements in the running of state enterprises Thai International organized a seminar to display their efficiency and their good business management, which of course was a load of crap.

I happened to speak with their most senior human resources director. I asked him "How do you assess the annual individual performance of cabin crew". His immediate response "No need to do that because 99% of our cabin crew have a masters degree."

No further comment needed.

2. A bit prior to the above Thai contacted my consultancy and asked us to visit one of their facilities, and at the same time asking us to make a positive assessment of their training facilities. In reality this was not one of the purposes or strengths of our consultancy, but they insisted.

We did visit and we were taken immediately to their internal English Language development center. The initial room was huge with a very high ceiling, with many very large white boards (maybe 20) screwed to the walls up very high. So high that some people wouldn't have noticed they were there.

I did notice them and also quickly noticed that each white board had 2 or 3 hand written sentences. Every sentence started with a larger than normal capital letter, then each continuing letter was also in capital (block) letters. No punctuation marks whatever and numerous grammar mistakes.

By this stage I had also been introduced to the western director of their language center, and I had also been informed by my own staff 'Don't say anything, he's the wife of the senior manager (female) which this center reports to.'

Next I was shown the enormous library of English language development books and numerous series of such books and their enormous collection of English - Thai / Thai - English dictionaries.

I was also now aware that there were several librarians. In my naivety I asked to one of the librarians, in English, how they selected books for each staff member who came to the English development center.

No response, and then I quick learned that 99% of the librarians could not speak English, and many could not even read English.

No further comment needed.

Edited January 28, 2015 by scorecard

[Thian]

The personell from Thai gets high salary's, so loads of Thai would like to work for Thai-air. Thai being Thai the best jobs go to members of rich family's, that's why in first class you might see snobby stewards. Familymembers from personell can fly for half price, i know some who even fly to Europe for a 3 night holiday.

But the main problem is the high price for tickets, i guess Thai air wants to follow Singapore air but of course they can't deliver the same service.

To make profit the planes have to be full every flight and for their high price that's impossible. Arab airlines are much cheaper and they do fly full planes.

Air Asia is also much cheaper but i would only use them for short flights since the seats are so small. Air Asia is good for going shopping in other Asian metropoles or doing a visarun.

[hawker9000]

Even U.S. flag carriers are better. 'Talk about a race to the bottom...

[harada]

Addressing the corruption, nepotism and cronyism issues might be a good place to start, but going by the latest news 29/1 on the restructure it looks as though a few feathers have been ruffled already.

[Jay Sata]

One thing Thais will never accept is the fact they may be wrong.

Another issue is unwillingness to listen to outsiders.

Those A380's are not going to be flying full.