Tottenham Thread

[RickG16]

It's another one of those misconceptions which is confounded over time. Just like how Roy Keane is now seen as a thug who could only tackle, when in fact he was a tremendous attacking mid early in his career and arguably a better passer of the ball in tight areas than Scholes. A technically gifted all round master.

 

But back to Becks. Beckham didn't fly past defenders, but he could beat a man, and it was usually to make room for his favourite weapon. He was arguably the most influential member of the Treble winning side and one which dominated English football. 

 

IMO that's world class. If you have time (and are open to change your mind on something) watch (a) Keane in the Juve away semi-final and (b) Beckham in the final vs Bayern. Even though we were losing that game for most of it, look at his all round play. I've seen both games pretty recently. You might be surprised.

 

..... And please don't tell me Scholes is underrated. I'm his biggest fan, but there are now quotes upon quotes from luminaries in world football, from Zidane to Pep and Xavi, saying how good he is. Maybe Scholes was underappreciated early in his career. But not now. The roles are reversed, it's Beckham the one who is misremembered.

[sanemax]

Just now, RonniePickering22 said:

 

Well look who has popped up on my feed!

 

Beckham was a game changer....no question and he was able to make the byline in his early days....the final ball was always sublime too.....a master of the art.

What about heading the ball ? , tackling ? back tracking defensively ?

He was a good player , over rated though 

[RickG16]

9 minutes ago, sanemax said:

What about heading the ball ? , tackling ? back tracking defensively ?

He was a good player , over rated though 

Like Ronnie says he was the master of an art. A very important art which changed games and won matches. Are you going to tell Gerd Muller he wasn't world class because he only scored goals from inside the penalty area?

[carmine]

It really depends on how you care to define "world class"

 

Scholes was world class in my mind but at times his tackling was hopeless.  I think you have to be exceptional in nearly all areas of the game which he mostly was.  Beckham ticks nowhere near enough boxes for me.

[smokie36]

40 minutes ago, sanemax said:

What about heading the ball ? , tackling ? back tracking defensively ?

He was a good player , over rated though 

 

He was never supposed to do any of those things....his job was to supply the killer pass or shoot....and both of those he did magnificently.

[smokie36]

I mentioned the Greece game as it was probably his finest....go and watch the 90 mins....he was an unstoppable force who dragged England through that day.

[smokie36]

Or the Scotland v England game '96.....two well matched sides that day bar one player who shone head and shoulders above the rest.

 

Oh and one bit of magic of course from an alcoholic.

[carmine]

5 minutes ago, RonniePickering22 said:

 

He was never supposed to do any of those things....his job was to supply the killer pass or shoot....and both of those he did magnificently.

I think the point is he couldn't do those things.  Saying that i fully accept what you and Rick have said i just think the rest of us are looking at the question from a different perspective.  How can you be regarded as world class if there are so many elements that you simply cannot do?

[Rc2702]

Just now, RonniePickering22 said:

Or the Scotland v England game '96.....two well matched sides that day bar one player who shone head and shoulders above the rest.

 

Oh and one bit of magic of course from an alcoholic.

Was there's only 1 Scottish playing that day then?

 

Rest were at AA

[smokie36]

2 minutes ago, carmine said:

I think the point is he couldn't do those things.  Saying that i fully accept what you and Rick have said i just think the rest of us are looking at the question from a different perspective.  How can you be regarded as world class if there are so many elements that you simply cannot do?

 

I understand that but he was simply the finest at what he did well.

 

Its a debate that could run indefinitely of course. 

[Rc2702]

World class player he was not but he had skills that he used which were world class. Some keepers are world class at penalty saves but lack in other areas. Beckham was a World class passer, crosser and dead ball specialist. 

 

 

[carmine]

9 minutes ago, RonniePickering22 said:

 

I understand that but he was simply the finest at what he did well.

 

Its a debate that could run indefinitely of course. 

Agree on both counts

[Bredbury Blue]

1 hour ago, RonniePickering22 said:

 

Well look who has popped up on my feed!

 

Beckham was a game changer....no question and he was able to make the byline in his early days....the final ball was always sublime too.....a master of the art.

^So funny he posted it twice bwahaha

[RickG16]

I also think his all round ability and work rate is being underestimated. Beckham didn't go missing from games, he was a grafter, and when they started to publish those stats about 'miles run' he was usually in the top 10 if not the top player in the PL.

 

And when we say master of the art, we don't just mean free kicks and crosses. It was short passes, long passes, and the amount of bend he got meant he could provide a dangerous delivery into the box from pretty much anywhere in the opponents' half.

 

Finally let's not forget the unbelievably high level this guy played at, winning 6 PLs, a La Liga and a Ligue 1.

 

If you still don't think he's world class I give up. And look forward to being brought back down to earth by the current crop later today. 

[Rc2702]

Just now, RickG16 said:

I also think his all round ability and work rate is being underestimated. Beckham didn't go missing from games, he was a grafter, and when they started to publish those stats about 'miles run' he was usually in the top 10 if not the top player in the PL.

 

And when we say master of the art, we don't just mean free kicks and crosses. It was short passes, long passes, and the amount of bend he got meant he could provide a dangerous delivery into the box from pretty much anywhere in the opponents' half.

 

Finally let's not forget the unbelievably high level this guy played at, winning 6 PLs, a La Liga and a Ligue 1.

 

If you still don't think he's world class I give up. And look forward to being brought back down to earth by the current crop later today. 

World class is too easily devalued.

 

He had some world class skills but by no means was he world class.

 

 

[RickG16]

47 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

World class is too easily devalued.

 

He had some world class skills but by no means was he world class.

 

 

Well it will always come back to what you define as world class. If it's top five players in the world at the time, that might have been pushing it for Becks. But top 10 or 20 certainly.

[Rc2702]

Just now, RickG16 said:

Well it will always come back to what you define as world class. If it's top five players in the world at the time, that might have been pushing it for Becks. But top 10 or 20 certainly.

Absolute rubbish that. Beckham a top 20 player. No chance, never.

 

 

 

 

[smokie36]

2 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

Absolute rubbish that. Beckham a top 20 player. No chance, never.

 

 

 

 

 

I don't get this as he could change a game....its as simple as that.

[Rc2702]

Just now, RonniePickering22 said:

 

I don't get this as he could change a game....its as simple as that.

So can Dwight gayle but that does not earn a world class tag and the Greece match just demonstrates how poorly that generation performed.

[RickG16]

1 hour ago, Rc2702 said:

Absolute rubbish that. Beckham a top 20 player. No chance, never.

 

 

 

 

OK...  Assuming you've got a bit of time today... For argument's sake let's say Beckham's best year was 2000. Name me 20 players from that time who were better / more effective.

[RickG16]

43 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

So can Dwight gayle but that does not earn a world class tag and the Greece match just demonstrates how poorly that generation performed

Btw.. He was good for the NT but let's forget everything he did for England cos I'm not even basing it on that.

[3 minus 2]

1 hour ago, RickG16 said:

Btw.. He was good for the NT but let's forget everything he did for England cos I'm not even basing it on that.

Yeah for a period he CARRIED england.

[Rc2702]

Just now, RickG16 said:

OK...  Assuming you've got a bit of time today... For argument's sake let's say Beckham's best year was 2000. Name me 20 players from that time who were better / more effective.

Zidane 

Ronaldinho 

Roberto Carlos

Luis Figo

Casillas

Marquez

Thierry Henry 

Vieira

Scholes

Giggs

Shevchenko 

Maldini 

Raul

Buffon

Batistuta

Michael Owen

Hasselbaink 

Ferdinand

Woodgate 

Keane

Zola

Ballack

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Bredbury Blue]

4 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

Zidane 

Ronaldinho 

Roberto Carlos

Luis Figo

Casillas

Marquez

Thierry Henry 

Vieira

Scholes

Giggs

Shevchenko 

Maldini 

Raul

Buffon

Batistuta

Michael Owen

Hasselbaink 

Ferdinand

Woodgate 

Keane

Zola

Ballack

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Wow! You really do have  too much time on your hands.

[Rc2702]

Just now, Bredbury Blue said:

Wow! You really do have  too much time on your hands.

Yep, took 5 minutes.

 

 

[Rc2702]

Just now, 3 minus 2 said:

Yeah for a period he CARRIED england.

No disputing that but he did not carry the golden generation very far. 

[smokie36]

The last half dozen has some journeymen....you certainly prove he was outside the top ten though.

[Rc2702]

Just now, RonniePickering22 said:

The last half dozen has some journeymen....you certainly prove he was outside the top ten though.

Not sure what journey men has to do with it.  During the year requested all of those players were much more effective than Beckham. Woodgate in 2000 was a monster as was Ferdinand which prompted his record transfer. That Leeds team were a top team. Shh hit even viduka was more effective

[RickG16]

49 minutes ago, Rc2702 said:

Zidane 

Ronaldinho 

Roberto Carlos

Luis Figo

Casillas

Marquez

Thierry Henry 

Vieira

Scholes

Giggs

Shevchenko 

Maldini 

Raul

Buffon

Batistuta

Michael Owen

Hasselbaink 

Ferdinand

Woodgate 

Keane

Zola

Ballack

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's obviously a good list with some great players (even though you forgot Rivaldo :p), and respect for rising to the challenge....... 

 

But comon mate.. He was a great player, but how many title winning sides was Zola a cornerstone of? And Woodgate, Owen, Jimmy H? If they are world class, Becks was too.

 

Beckham sits comfortably in that list. 

[Bredbury Blue]

1 minute ago, RickG16 said:

It's obviously a good list with some great players (even though you forgot Rivaldo :p), and respect for rising to the challenge....... 

 

But comon mate.. He was a great player, but how many title winning sides was Zola a cornerstone of? And Woodgate, Owen, Jimmy H? If they are world class, Becks was too.

 

Beckham sits comfortably in that list. 

R2D2 showing he knows how to google search