Adventures in obtaining WP to do volunteer work at a temple

[connda]

This is a very short story where the ending is 'mai dai' (can not).

I'm a qualified EFL teacher with experience teaching English in Thailand, but I'm retired from working.

I'm a layman at our local Buddhist monastery (wat) , and I've been asked if I could teach a small number of monks and naen at the wat. I said I'd be more than happy to volunteer my time as long as I can obtain a WP first in order to teach legally. So today my wife and I headed to the local provincial WP office.

Although my wife and the government WP employees discussed this in Thai, I could follow the gist of the conversation, right up to the point where one of the lead administrators simple said, "Mai dai". The end to the story is simple and short: My wat can not sponsor me in order to obtain a work permit. (Note: This is strictly a WP issue. I can volunteer on my Non-O marriage extension, but I can not obtain a work permit with the Buddhist temple being my sponsor.)

So there's the paradox to volunteering in Thailand: In order for me, a foreigner, to legally volunteer my time to teach, I must have a WP; but it's not possible to obtain a WP because the government WP agency will not allow the Thai Buddhist temple (that would like me to volunteer teach) to sponsor me.

man bpen rêuang sâo châi măi. tam a-rai yàang èun dâai măi lâ.

"Mai dai". End of story.

[Headgame]

Sad but true that a volunteer who wants to do something of value can not. You're a good man for trying to do the right thing.

[ubonjoe]

You would need documents from the district (Amphoe) level or possibly the provincial level that overseas the temple to apply for the work permit.

Perhaps another visit to the work permit office to find out what paperwork is required.

[Chonburiram]

... I can volunteer on my Non-O marriage extension...

How that?

[LivinLOS]

My understanding was it had to be a registered thai charity to volunteer ??

[ubonjoe]

... I can volunteer on my Non-O marriage extension...

How that?

What makes you think he can't.

All he needs is a work permit to make it legal.

[ubonjoe]

My understanding was it had to be a registered thai charity to volunteer ??

People do volunteer work for NGO's that are not charities.

So what makes you think he can't do it at a temple.

[Mario2008]

A registered charity is not necessary, at least not for immigration. But we are talking here about the rules from the labour office and not immigration.

Have the abbot contact the governor, or have the district office contact the governor.

[LivinLOS]

My understanding was it had to be a registered thai charity to volunteer ??

People do volunteer work for NGO's that are not charities.

So what makes you think he can't do it at a temple.

Maybe I am being dense.. I thought an NGO was a type of charity ?? I mean its not a business.. Its not for profit.. Its usually a social help thing..

I agree not all charities are NGOs but I thought NGOs were all charities ??

Anyway if you say they dont need to be.. Fair enough.. I was always under that impression.. I remember various volunteers after the tsunami scrambling around trying to find registered charities to be legitimized.. If all they needed was the local temple, seems too easy..

[Chonburiram]

... I can volunteer on my Non-O marriage extension...

How that?

What makes you think he can't.

All he needs is a work permit to make it legal.

I was reading it as the Non-O marriage extension would allow him to volunteer, without a wp.

[connda]

A registered charity is not necessary, at least not for immigration. But we are talking here about the rules from the labour office and not immigration.

Have the abbot contact the governor, or have the district office contact the governor.

That's probably the sensible answer, but sensibility seems to keep going out the window when I'm talking with Thais.

The WP office really made it clear that they weren't interested in pursuing this. They told my wife to find another wat that has a teaching program already establish with an NGO, non-profit, or through a Thai government contract, to ask to administrators to sponsor me to obtain a WP under the their organization , then add the name of my wat to the WP. Honestly, that's insane and the chances of that solution actually working is about zero.

And, although I understood a lot of the conversation in Thai, I couldn't even get them to make eye contact with me when I tried to ask question, in Thai. Everything went though my wife. So, going back and talking to them again is going to be fairly fruitless unless I have a relative powerful patron in my corner. So yes, I think my next step is to have a talk with the abbot and see what buttons he can push within the government.

[Mario2008]

The problem for the laour office is probably that they must have a legal entity you will be volunteering for. Now it seems nobody can sign the official paperwork, hence they suggest through an NGO.

The local municipality might be sufficient, it they are willing to help.

[Colabamumbai]

A big IF, the Wat has a school the schools paperwork should get you a W.P.

[connda]

The problem for the laour office is probably that they must have a legal entity you will be volunteering for. Now it seems nobody can sign the official paperwork, hence they suggest through an NGO.

The local municipality might be sufficient, it they are willing to help.

Mario, why wouldn't the wats be considered legal entities, or would this be a situation where the legal entity would be the top level Buddhist organization overseeing the individual wats? My rationale here is that I know of foreign monks who are ordained and require visas. I always was under the assumption that whatever wat the foreigner monk stayed at had the legal authority to sponsor the foreign monk's visa application; so using the same logic (and this is what is confusing me a lot) if a wat can sponsor the foreign monk's visa application, then why would they not have the authority to sponsor a WP for a foreign layman at the wat?

It's immensely frustrating when you're attempting to follow the letter of the law, but you can't get clear, concise information even from the government entities that are responsible for issuing the WP and enforcing WP laws.

Anyone happen to know the link to the actual Thai statutory laws that applies to the issuance of Work Permits in Thailand.

Edited January 28, 2015 by connda

[ubonjoe]

A visa would have less requirements but to get an extension stay as a monk it requires the following.

"2.13 In the case of studying Buddhism or practicing religious activities:

Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year. The alien:

(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) Must have been confirmed and requested by the National Office of Buddhism, or Office of the Prune Minister, or Mahachulalongkomrajavidyalaya University, or Mahamakut Buddhist University.

(3) Must have been confirmed by the abbot of the temple where the applicant is studying Buddhism or practicing religious activities."

From immigration order 327/2557.

[connda]

A visa would have less requirements but to get an extension stay as a monk it requires the following.

"2.13 In the case of studying Buddhism or practicing religious activities:

Each permission shall be granted for no more than one year. The alien:

(1) Must have been granted a non-immigrant visa (NON-IM).

(2) Must have been confirmed and requested by the National Office of Buddhism, or Office of the Prune Minister, or Mahachulalongkomrajavidyalaya University, or Mahamakut Buddhist University.

(3) Must have been confirmed by the abbot of the temple where the applicant is studying Buddhism or practicing religious activities."

From immigration order 327/2557.

(2) Must have been confirmed and requested by the National Office of Buddhism, or Office of the Prune Minister, or Mahachulalongkomrajavidyalaya University, or Mahamakut Buddhist University.

I think item number 2 is the key Ubonjoe. Wife and I are off to discuss this with the abbot this week. Thanks much!