A lot has been posted about Daniel Russel but the point for me is that a diplomat, no matter how junior, should know he speaks on behalf of his government and if he gets it all wrong there will be consequences.

Was he really that stupid ?

No, he was not that stupid. His comments were made during a speech at Chulalongkorn University. The speech would have been vetted beforehand, and there is the possibility that he did not even write it. The speech reflected the official US opinion on the issues here.

It is your opinion that he got it all wrong. I think the comments made were a very correct assessment of the situation here, and the advice to have inclusive reforms spot on. The current path of one sided reforms will only lead to further conflicts down the road, and are the result of some very short term thinking going on here at the moment.

Wish you'd read my post properly. I didn't say he got it wrong because i do know the care that's usually taken so tongue in cheek asked if he was so stupid to talk.

absolutely correct

says it all

a must read

What utter drivel ... the same old cliches and half truths. Only in Thailand would this make it past the editorial desk.

What really concerns the power structure here is that so many Thais nodded their head in agreement with Russel.

so many Thais nodded their head in agreement with Russel. ?

how do you know?

counting the ptp and its udd freaks? May be there are not so many any more

Pauline is back! Keep in mind that the author is someone who was convicted of political corruption in the U.S. I'm not too surprised she's disenchanted with the American political system.

Good!

Another "naive" about the US that is awakening!

A lot has been posted about Daniel Russel but the point for me is that a diplomat, no matter how junior, should know he speaks on behalf of his government and if he gets it all wrong there will be consequences.

Was he really that stupid ?

Or was he saying exactly what his government thinks?

Thank you TV!

Wonderful posting saying EXACTLY what is happening with the US, and was close to say that the US is a dictatorship. It didn't... just because the author wanted to be polite.

..............people from NE Thailand and the North are not poorer than other peope in the country....................

With morons like this woman in parliament its no wonder Thailand is going down the drain.

Why are the Thais so touchy about foreigners speaking their mind about the pathetic state of Thai politics.

Everyone in Asia,Japan, Europe ,Aust and Nth America knows that this place is hopelessly corrupt to the core.

Not more corrupted than the US..for sure.

Danny Russel breached diplomatic protocols when he made the speech saying Yingluck's impeachment appears to have been politically motivated. He needs to be recalled and removed from his post for making that statement. Ms. Pornpimol is way off base if she thinks the US shouldn't disapprove of an undemocratic government. Her editorial is a farce.

Well he quite simply did not say that, and if you could read and comprehend plain English you would understand that. He said, to some people given the way everything transpired it COULD APPEAR like it was politically motivated. Not that it was.

You go on about his qualifications, but given your lack of comprehension ability of simple written English, i would say you should be more concerned with issues closer to home before commenting on others abilities.

Yes! "..it could appear" ! NO blaming there.

Maybe the PM should open his mind and see how the international community "might" think that.

He might even reply with "I can see how you might think that, but..." And tell his side of the story.

He would of acknowledged Russel's "concerns" and kept the conversation going.

Instead he says "you hurt our feelings" (poor us) and goes into his own blame game....

And, maybe Russel could have shown a little more of a desire to "understand" the PM's point of view and acknowledge that.

Both agreeing to disagree.

absolutely correct

says it all

a must read

Certainly Beijing will be pleased to read it, just as they would have been grateful when the thai execs 'funded' by the author to attend the white house coffee "dominated the meeting" and spent most of it lobbying not for Thailand-US ties but for "most-favored-nation" status for China, irritating others present ( as reported by The Washington Post at the time). Nice to have a mother-in-law who gives you $236,000 US to make a political donation, given that you have to scrape just to make ends meet.

What utter drivel ... the same old cliches and half truths. Only in Thailand would this make it past the editorial desk.

What really concerns the power structure here is that so many Thais nodded their head in agreement with Russel.

so many Thais nodded their head in agreement with Russel. ?

how do you know?

counting the ptp and its udd freaks? May be there are not so many any more

And the moment you wrote that "counting the ptp and its udd freaks" idiocy you discounted the question. It has nothing to do with PTP or UDD "freaks", it has to do with the fair and decent application of law in a transparent and open way, and the desire by so many Thais to have a voice in their own nation, something that is being denied right now and is being engineered to be denied in the future. Still, noted that you agreed with OP's drivel so that may be a mental leap too far for you. The mindless repeat that "democracy is not about elections" that has pervaded right wing Thai arguments in recent years does not become any more valid as a statement just because it is repeated so often. Because that is exactly what democracy is all about.

Oh - and I'm judging from social media and commentary from other media outlets, both in Thai and in English, plus casual conversation.

A lot has been posted about Daniel Russel but the point for me is that a diplomat, no matter how junior, should know he speaks on behalf of his government and if he gets it all wrong there will be consequences.

Was he really that stupid ?

No, he was not that stupid. His comments were made during a speech at Chulalongkorn University. The speech would have been vetted beforehand, and there is the possibility that he did not even write it. The speech reflected the official US opinion on the issues here.

It is your opinion that he got it all wrong. I think the comments made were a very correct assessment of the situation here, and the advice to have inclusive reforms spot on. The current path of one sided reforms will only lead to further conflicts down the road, and are the result of some very short term thinking going on here at the moment.

Wish you'd read my post properly. I didn't say he got it wrong because i do know the care that's usually taken so tongue in cheek asked if he was so stupid to talk.

Interesting.

I didn't know that the foreign office wrote or vetted every speech for every junior diplomat.

Wow!

He's American and they have a State Dept not a Foreign Office but the issue is that every diplomat knows, or should, what they can or cannot say, within reason, so was he talking off the cuff at Chula ? I would think that on arrival he was briefed at the Embassy and his speech ' cleared '.

He must be very naive if he spoke without permission and didn't expect a reaction from the Embassy and then Washington if he stepped far out of line and put his government in an awkward position.

sniveling drivel from The Nation who should be ashamed at publishing such third-rate right-wing journalism

typical 'gob nai kala' Thainess

Thank you TV!

Wonderful posting saying EXACTLY what is happening with the US, and was close to say that the US is a dictatorship. It didn't... just because the author wanted to be polite.

Ignorance.jpg

As you say - ignorance. The US is NOT a dictatorship, although it is a flawed democracy (as most are) with a vastly inequitable power and social structure. I'm no friend of much US foreign policy but to say it's a dictatorship is just garbage I'm afraid - do you even understand the term? Who exactly is the dictator?

Just stating something really does not make it so.

Dan... enjoy your Thaiksins payoff. Russel is the new Robert Armstrong.

Sounds like State and WH and CIA differ about what to do with Thailand.

That is rich: A thai ask other people to "open their mind and be fair" - what a nob

What utter drivel ... the same old cliches and half truths. Only in Thailand would this make it past the editorial desk.

What really concerns the power structure here is that so many Thais nodded their head in agreement with Russel.

so many Thais nodded their head in agreement with Russel. ?

how do you know?

counting the ptp and its udd freaks? May be there are not so many any more

Not there so can't comment on head nods but the social media like twitter, Facebook and even mass media polls seem overwhelmingly agreed with Russel. These aint the PTP and UDD freaks that you referring to. Most are educated middle class Thais and they are making their voices heard and will grow louder until the junta realized that they are not the self anointed white knight of democracy and the real power lies with the people mandate.

A lot has been posted about Daniel Russel but the point for me is that a diplomat, no matter how junior, should know he speaks on behalf of his government and if he gets it all wrong there will be consequences.

Was he really that stupid ?

No, he was not that stupid. His comments were made during a speech at Chulalongkorn University. The speech would have been vetted beforehand, and there is the possibility that he did not even write it. The speech reflected the official US opinion on the issues here.

It is your opinion that he got it all wrong. I think the comments made were a very correct assessment of the situation here, and the advice to have inclusive reforms spot on. The current path of one sided reforms will only lead to further conflicts down the road, and are the result of some very short term thinking going on here at the moment.

Wish you'd read my post properly. I didn't say he got it wrong because i do know the care that's usually taken so tongue in cheek asked if he was so stupid to talk.

I apologize. I didn't get the tongue in cheek but do see it now!

The elephant in the room is that the military are just as corrupt as the politicians or the RTP. Just maybe somewhat less consipcuous about it.

The military are NOT doing this for the good of the country, but from orders much higher up. Surely no one believes the general acted on his own?

One should also ask, how did career military men become so rich? Or is the pay grade for generals in Thailand really really (REALLY) good?

A lot has been posted about Daniel Russel but the point for me is that a diplomat, no matter how junior, should know he speaks on behalf of his government and if he gets it all wrong there will be consequences.

Was he really that stupid ?

Daniel Russel is not the a "junior" diplomat, he's the top U.S. diplomat in Asia and has played a key role in U.S. foreign policy in the region for the last six years under Obama and has worked in the State Department for over twenty five years. During his visit, he specifically said that he was speaking for the U.S. government as a whole when he thought that the junta was on the verge of losing legitimacy. There's a reason why this visit garnered so much attention.

As an American, I'm proud of what he said, our foreign policy should look more like this all the time. Yingluck was an incompetent fool and Thaksin is a human rights abusing tyrant, but Russel's comments were spot on. Prayut overthrew an elected government, filled the new government with his lackeys, and then retroactively impeached her using his newly founded government. And yet people will claim there was no political bias in this situation.

Also, don't claim that the U.S. is stupid or uninformed about Thailand. The U.S. maintains strong ties with not just the Shins, but also with the Privy Council and the "traditional" power structures that have relied on American support for the last 50 years. Russel knows more about Thailand than any one of us ever will.

If Daniel Russel got his information from cables filed by former US ambassador Kristie Kenney, who was unashamedly a Yingluck fan, then his confusion is understandable. He did come across as a tad naive and demonstrated pretty poor diplomatic skills.

I hope his tour also took him to China, the UAE, Bahrain and Saudi Arabia. I'd like to see what he said to the rulers of those undemocratic states and how they reacted.

Wouldn't want any double-standards, now would we?

The message from Washington is always the same, regardless of whichever veneer masks it.

Do precisely as you are told and when you are told. Failure to do so will result in repercussions to the extent of our choosing.

Clear?

heed Francis Fukuyama's argument that democracy is not defined by elections, but by a good balance between three crucial elements - a strong state that fosters a well-ordered society, the rule of law, and democratic accountability

Well one out of three ain't bad.

It is pretty obvious that this country is allergic to the second part.

I would think that the "rulers/elite" are allergic to all three at this time!

"International media like to call us "a minority Bangkok elite", but we haven't the faintest idea what that term means. We work from morning to night, we struggle to make ends meet, we keep pounding pavements to do our job right and honestly, we worry about our children, our parents, our health, our homes, our future."

"The only part of the definition we might recognise is "minority". The country's political system was in fact a tyranny of the majority. The 122 seats from the Northeastern provinces plus over 100 from the North represented the controlling block in Parliament. The Pheu Thai Party's decision to focus their campaign efforts in these two regions was a shrewd one. Contrary to the picture international media like to paint, people in these provinces are not poorer than those in the rest of the country. Pheu Thai won so many seats in these two regions because it had the best-organised and best-funded (mostly by taxpayers' money) political machinery in place. There is nothing wrong with that, except for the fact that such an overwhelming majority left many of us in the dust, without real representation, while we kept dutifully paying our taxes."

Is Pornpimol Kanchanalak really that clueless, or intentionally deceptive? Bangkok, with less than a fifth of Thailand's population, receives the over 70% of government investment. The Shinawatra affiliated parties consistently won elections by making small in-roads into this gross disparity. The majority of voters clearly approved, and didn't see the Shinawatra parties as being any more corrupt than their predecessors.

Regarding the claim that people in the north and northeast are not poorer than the rest of the country, total BS: http://www-wds.worldbank.org/external/default/WDSContentServer/WDSP/IB/2012/05/09/000333037_20120509003158/Rendered/PDF/685510ESW00PUB0y0Note0master0120501.pdf

"heed Francis Fukuyama's argument that democracy is not defined by elections, but by a good balance between three crucial elements - a strong state that fosters a well-ordered society, the rule of law, and democratic accountability."

When has rule of law or accountability EVER been of importance in this country regardless of which government is in charge?

Thailand should clean up it's own mess and stop criticizing people (or nations) for pointing out the obvious.

B..s.. as usual, disguised with pseudo-intellectual and pseudo-cultural discourse by this so-called journalist.

Dear Kuhn Chanalak: Please engage your brain before you touch a keyboard.

Daniel Russel said "When an elected leader is deposed from office, then impeached by the authority that implemented the coup — and is being targeted with criminal charges while basic democratic processes and institutions are interrupted, the international community is left with the impression that these steps could, in fact, be politically driven," he said.

This statement is factually, contextually and empirically correct. The yellow cheerleaders will ignore the statement and whine about US hypocrisy and lots of arguments that avoid actually countering the actual statement made (and use selective memory to forget that Suthep said he and Prayuth planned the whole thing long before the protests). The red cheerleaders will not offer realistic ways to curb lunatic behaviors like midnight amnesty sessions and rampant feeding frenzies at the graft pool, nor admit that direct democracy (something no western nation has had since Ancient Greece) is actually mob rule.

Amazing Thailand Visa Forum

It's hard to comprehend how you could equate elections with liberal democracy

For some people it is hard to comprehend much of anything, I think maybe a visit to North Korea is in order for you. Your reaction is nothing more than a knee jerk from someone who has an axe to grind and found an opportunity to do it.

Pornpimol Kanchanalak obviously knows all about democracy, she knows how to defraud the process anyway. Welcome home Pauline, I am sure you will get away with it here.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-dc-circuit/1277609.html

Here's the record of the author's political corruption case (of which she was convicted), if you're interested.

The irony runs deep with this lady, wow.

What gets me is that people still pretend that this coup was somehow about corruption. It's about a momentous future event in Thai history, period. I know that for domestic consumption, Thais will bend over backwards to pretend it's not, but to try and BS allies such as the US, EU, etc...come on. I'd love to be a fly on the wall for more frank discussions between diplomats behind closed doors. Maybe we'll get lucky and another Wikileaks-style trove of documents will be publicly disclosed someday. [fingers crossed]

We understand that the United States wishes to see every country in the world adopt representative democracy under the principles of liberalism whereby the rights of the individual are protected under the law. However, it is hard to comprehend how you could equate elections with liberal democracy.

What? This has to be the most moronic statement I'v ever read. Clearly they have not understanding of democracy.

First, the country under the elected government of Yingluck was no democracy. Think Sheldon Silver - the recently arrested speaker of the New York Assembly who for the past 20 years took millions from seedy deals. Think former Virginia governor Bob McDonnell, who pocketed millions through plain graft.

What? So you're attempting to say she wasn't democratically elected? I beg to differ. You may not have liked the vote but a vote it was. As for pointing the finger at the US regarding the two criminals both were locked up .. neither were transferred to 'inactive posts'.

The bottom line and the problem with Thailand is that it's run by corruption and touches every facet of life. Politicians, military, even taxi drivers are corrupt to the core. On top of that Thailand is now being ruled without legitimacy as the coup was in fact against international law. Thailand will continue to face international condemnation until elections are held; just because the ruling elite don't like it doesn't give them the right to move the military to take over.