Can't afford to live in Thailand anymore

[Thai at Heart]

I drank a very nice bottle of red last night for 245

So did I. Chilean bottle of Red from Tesco Lotus.

Wine is made out to be super expensive in Thailand. You can get reasonable tasting yet cheap bottles at all the supermarkets. It's hardly the best of the best though neither is the cheap stuff in the super markets back home.

At least I know mine was drinkeable.

As I said, its all about situation and time of life. Kids, schools, education ,opportunity all play a part in the plan.

[gandalf12]

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I don't agree completely, the cost of living in Thailand overall is much lower than it is in the UK, food stuffs (local markets), transportation, utilities costs, taxes, labor (hired staff) and so on. Of course, if I shopped at Rimping/TOPS/VILLA supermarkets and continually purchased western food stuffs, the cost of basic foods would not be cheaper, the idea however is not to throw money away needlessly whilst still maintaining good quality and choice. We regularly shop at a local market and can easily buy three or four days worth of fresh high quality vegetables for under £2, the price of a single green pepper in London.

...and I could pick up three or four decent bottles of plonk for one bottle here, three or four second hand cars for the cost of one here, etc.

Groceries in general are similar now apart from the choice; aside from the Rimpings and others, there is very little here really. Most supermarkets are crammed with noodles, powdered milk, sweets and cheap Chinese plastic crap. Of all the things I miss, supermarkets are top of the list. The absolutely massive choice of breads, cheeses, cereals, fresh fruit & veg, high quality meats, vast selection of booze and on and on. There ain't no comparison on that front.

Main things that are ridiculous in UK/West are housing and eating out. But it's all relative: if you were earning baht here on a standard Thai salary, things would be a lot more expensive... and bearing in mind that wages are on the order of several times over Thai and there is zero welfare if you come unstuck.

One could argue the toss either way all day, though the op is right, it is a lot more expensive here now; more so than other places largely through the actions of one person.

It has got more expensive in Thailand but so has every other country. Also of course it depends very much on the lifestyle you want. You want basic then it will be cheap. But before saying Thailand is very expensive consider how much the same would cost you back home and mostly you will find like for like Thailand is cheaper

[laolover88]

It is all courses for horses, I think.

It comes down to : Income 30,000B pcm. Expenditure for whatever reason 35,000B pcm; ..find a way to earn more/spend less or follow the monsoon

Income 35,000B pcm.. Expenditure 30,000B? Same thinking but no reason to panic. It will only get more expensive, everywhere.

It does not matter where you are you need to learn how to 'consume'. If you go to Lotus etc everything is more expensive than the market or the Chinese shops.GBP a month

The 'killers' to go back to the UK are: Property rent/purchase if you have not kept one..a house in Inverness, that tropical hotspot is 500GBP pcm!! Heating is insufferably expensive..more than aircon; Fuel..still a bit more: never forget Council Tax. Our shack in the wilds is still 100GBP a month per person..fortunately wife is an alien!!!

Sure you can buy and eat Thai market food, but generally UK cheaper. Pork belly in the market here c120B+ a kilo..in the UK 75B..also no lamb, no edible beef here. Unless you go to Pratunam/ Bobae kids clothes cheaper in UK. Was in Lotus this am. Girls shorts 475B, Girls Jeans 795B. Would reckon to get both 3GBP and 6GBP in Asda/H+M in UK. Never buy clothes for myself as none fit!

Wife opens new businesses where and when she wants..little or no red tape like UK

Much of what people write relates to either singles or no kids.Our decision to go back to the UK will be based on whether we choose to spend 95000B a term in CM or free in the UK, but have to rent a house near a decent school@25000GBP pcm. It is only a difference of 2K a year. In the UK we have sea but no sunshine. In LOS we have sunshine but no sea. We live in what is supposed to be 'The happiest place in Thailand'....in spite of the Ya Ba, the drug running...

I guess choices need to be made on the basis of money, happiness, security, future and a few other things!?

Good luck to OP

[SoiBiker]

Go buy a pack of chicken breast in the UK, then tell me food is cheaper there than in Thailand.

[alantheembalmer]

I suppose we can all pick out certain items from various places around the world to see which one is the cheapest. However, the lifestyle I live in Bangkok I could not replicate in London for the money it costs me here. Now if I was to choose one item for comparison, it would be my water bill. Water per cubic metre in England, for me, is 14 times more expensive than in Bangkok, (that is on a meter with no standing charge). The cost of my water bill in England pays for all of my utilities in Thailand, and makes a substantial contribution to my annual service charge.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Sure you can buy and eat Thai market food, but generally UK cheaper. Pork belly in the market here c120B+ a kilo..in the UK 75B..also no lamb, no edible beef here. Unless you go to Pratunam/ Bobae kids clothes cheaper in UK. Was in Lotus this am. Girls shorts 475B, Girls Jeans 795B. Would reckon to get both 3GBP and 6GBP in Asda/H+M in UK. Never buy clothes for myself as none fit!

Your mistake is thinking Tesco Lotus is a discount supermarket (like Walmart or Tesco in the west)

It isn't, it's a premium shopping establishment. Even nappies are 30% more in Lotus than normal Thai shops.

Women's shorts are generally 50-75Bht, jeans 200-300bht.

In both small Thai shops and markets.

You're just shopping in the wrong places (being a foreigner).

As for not getting things that fit, I'm 6' tall and have no problems.

Shirts XL Thai = L western. Jeans 36" sold everywhere.

Absolutely no excuse for being bigger.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Go buy a pack of chicken breast in the UK, then tell me food is cheaper there than in Thailand.

I think the problem is many western guys are barely functional.

Want western food but helpless to make it themselves from raw ingredients.

Dare not venture out of their supermarket shopping comfort zone.

Apart from

Cheese, which in my opinion is not expensive, but about the same price as the west.

Alcohol, I don't drink anything alcoholic.

Beef and Lamb, poor quality or unavailable.

Nearly everything is much cheaper here.

Tesco UK, pork loin 450bht/Kg.

Thai pork shop 125bht/Kg.

Edited February 7, 2015 by AnotherOneAmerican

[chiang mai]

I don't agree completely, the cost of living in Thailand overall is much lower than it is in the UK, food stuffs (local markets), transportation, utilities costs, taxes, labor (hired staff) and so on. Of course, if I shopped at Rimping/TOPS/VILLA supermarkets and continually purchased western food stuffs, the cost of basic foods would not be cheaper, the idea however is not to throw money away needlessly whilst still maintaining good quality and choice. We regularly shop at a local market and can easily buy three or four days worth of fresh high quality vegetables for under £2, the price of a single green pepper in London.

...and I could pick up three or four decent bottles of plonk for one bottle here, three or four second hand cars for the cost of one here, etc.

Groceries in general are similar now apart from the choice; aside from the Rimpings and others, there is very little here really. Most supermarkets are crammed with noodles, powdered milk, sweets and cheap Chinese plastic crap. Of all the things I miss, supermarkets are top of the list. The absolutely massive choice of breads, cheeses, cereals, fresh fruit & veg, high quality meats, vast selection of booze and on and on. There ain't no comparison on that front.

Main things that are ridiculous in UK/West are housing and eating out. But it's all relative: if you were earning baht here on a standard Thai salary, things would be a lot more expensive... and bearing in mind that wages are on the order of several times over Thai and there is zero welfare if you come unstuck.

One could argue the toss either way all day, though the op is right, it is a lot more expensive here now; more so than other places largely through the actions of one person.

Yes, imported alcohol is expensive here, particularly wine - and yes, used cars are expensive here also, but I think the "UK is cheaper" list pretty much ends there. And to be honest, if we were to look at the FULL cost of car ownership over say five years, including insurance, taxes, maintenance/service and petrol, my guess is that those "cheap" UK cars aint that cheap after all!

As for supermarkets: it's indisputable that the cost of food products in Thailand is cheaper than in the UK, if you don't believe that then I suggest you spend fifteen minutes or so at the Tesco UK online shopping site and catch up on the cost of foodstuffs. Agreed there is a greater range of available products in UK supermarkets but hey, have you ever asked yourself how many choices a person really needs. For my part, if I want to eat a chicken dish I'll buy raw chicken and prepare the dish myself although I accept that recent generations of UK adults are unable or totally unwilling to do that. But simply because it's not possible to find a coq au vin, microwavable ready meal in a Thai supermarket does not necessarily mean such places are lacking in any way!

[Lukecan]

For bangkok, if you wanna lead a good upper middle class lifestyle as a single guy, you need a decent budget

30-40k baht rent for a decent 1br condo serviced condo in a good location.

20-30k a month for car payment

20-30k month Entertainment eating out

5-6k misc bills, internet,water,electricity

10-20k misc, hobbies clothes

You need around 100-110k baht a month, so you need an income of about 170-180k baht to save some, and invest for your future. Believe me, 180k isn't big money when a decent farang package in BKK is about 300-350k baht.

I see what some folks call a comfy lifestyle, and I get confused. Sharing food? Drinking cheap beer, avoiding western food? No thanks, why come to Thailand if you're not going to take advantage of the low cost of living?

Bangkok is best enjoyed when you dine at nice restaurants, don't have to worry about the prices on the menu, drinking once in a while in decent pub, living in a decent condo. This is what makes a good lifestyle. I can live in my village for $200 a month, why come to Thailand if I'm not gonna lead a decent lifestyle.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Lukecan

[chiang mai]

For bangkok, if you wanna lead a good upper middle class lifestyle as a single guy, you need a decent budget

30-40k baht rent for a decent 1br condo serviced condo in a good location.

20-30k a month for car payment

20-30k month Entertainment eating out

5-6k misc bills, internet,water,electricity

10-20k misc, hobbies clothes

You need around 100-110k baht a month, so you need an income of about 170-180k baht to save some, and invest for your future. Believe me, 180k isn't big money when a decent farang package in BKK is about 300-350k baht.

I see what some folks call a comfy lifestyle, and I get confused. Sharing food? Drinking cheap beer, avoiding western food? No thanks, why come to Thailand if you're not going to take advantage of the low cost of living?

Bangkok is best enjoyed when you dine at nice restaurants, don't have to worry about the prices on the menu, drinking once in a while in decent pub, living in a decent condo. This is what makes a good lifestyle. I can live in my village for $200 a month, why come to Thailand if I'm not gonna lead a decent lifestyle.

I've rarely seen a post more sad, it's very very troubling that some people think this way.

[stickylies]

I see what some folks call a comfy lifestyle, and I get confused. Sharing food? Drinking cheap beer, avoiding western food? No thanks, why come to Thailand if you're not going to take advantage of the low cost of living?

i share food, great food btw, not a plate of fishballs, because i like SHARING. it's something that got lost in the west where we eat behind the curtain, away from outside world.

as for low cost of living, you, my friend, are the utter school example of not taking advantage of low cost of living.....

[Lukecan]

I see what some folks call a comfy lifestyle, and I get confused. Sharing food? Drinking cheap beer, avoiding western food? No thanks, why come to Thailand if you're not going to take advantage of the low cost of living?

i share food, great food btw, not a plate of fishballs, because i like SHARING. it's something that got lost in the west where we eat behind the curtain, away from outside world.

as for low cost of living, you, my friend, are the utter school example of not taking advantage of low cost of living.....

A similar lifestyle would cost 2x in a western country, saving 150k a month is TAKİNG advantage of the low cost of living. Yeah sure you could eat street food once in a while, drink cheap beer, whatever floats your boat. You could lead a bum lifestyle for free in the west, by collecting your unemployment check from the government, receiving food stamps etc no need to come to Thailand for that.

[a99az]

It's hard sometimes to make a choice like this. I too have had to chose between staying in Thailand or returning to the UK where I had not lived for almost thirty years. It was not an easy choice, but my young children's future education was the deciding factor. We will be visiting Thailand at every opportunity as it's our second home.

[sidjameson]

For bangkok, if you wanna lead a good upper middle class lifestyle as a single guy, you need a decent budget

30-40k baht rent for a decent 1br condo serviced condo in a good location.

20-30k a month for car payment

20-30k month Entertainment eating out

5-6k misc bills, internet,water,electricity

10-20k misc, hobbies clothes

You need around 100-110k baht a month, so you need an income of about 170-180k baht to save some, and invest for your future. Believe me, 180k isn't big money when a decent farang package in BKK is about 300-350k baht.

I see what some folks call a comfy lifestyle, and I get confused. Sharing food? Drinking cheap beer, avoiding western food? No thanks, why come to Thailand if you're not going to take advantage of the low cost of living?

Bangkok is best enjoyed when you dine at nice restaurants, don't have to worry about the prices on the menu, drinking once in a while in decent pub, living in a decent condo. This is what makes a good lifestyle. I can live in my village for $200 a month, why come to Thailand if I'm not gonna lead a decent lifestyle.

Lukecan, when you8 say 'upper middle' the middle that you are referring to, will that be a Thai middle, global middle or your home countries middle class?

[SoiBiker]

Some people actually like Thai food.

[SoiBiker]

Oh, and 30-40k for a one bed condo? They saw you coming mate.

[fey]

If you can't afford to live here, perhaps you should move elsewhere.

thats what they plan on doing. no rule against explaining why though. may be helpful to others who live here or are considering moving here.

VERY few people can take advantage of the lower cost of living and save the difference over time long term.

In other words people will move towards the top of what they can afford in whatever situation they are in, whether it be bkk or anywhere else.

Also, most can't move downwards into cheaper digs or lifestyle, eat street food etc after they have become used to more expensive stuff.

These are usually the types that complain aboit stuff being too expensive. It's more about you then the country or prices, unless your really on the low end around thai minimum wage.

Edited February 7, 2015 by fey

[Lukecan]

For bangkok, if you wanna lead a good upper middle class lifestyle as a single guy, you need a decent budget

30-40k baht rent for a decent 1br condo serviced condo in a good location.

20-30k a month for car payment

20-30k month Entertainment eating out

5-6k misc bills, internet,water,electricity

10-20k misc, hobbies clothes

You need around 100-110k baht a month, so you need an income of about 170-180k baht to save some, and invest for your future. Believe me, 180k isn't big money when a decent farang package in BKK is about 300-350k baht.

I see what some folks call a comfy lifestyle, and I get confused. Sharing food? Drinking cheap beer, avoiding western food? No thanks, why come to Thailand if you're not going to take advantage of the low cost of living?

Bangkok is best enjoyed when you dine at nice restaurants, don't have to worry about the prices on the menu, drinking once in a while in decent pub, living in a decent condo. This is what makes a good lifestyle. I can live in my village for $200 a month, why come to Thailand if I'm not gonna lead a decent lifestyle.

Lukecan, when you8 say 'upper middle' the middle that you are referring to, will that be a Thai middle, global middle or your home countries middle class?

I'm referring to the dynamics of Bangkok.

Living in Thong Lor, Siam etc.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Here come stupid replies. I never said Thailand is expensive, but the currency fell 20% which effectively makes it 20% more expensive.

And I am back in Canada and am comparing prices. How much the quality food costs in Thailand? I am literally located in Canadian hole (Hamilton) and you should see supermarkets here loaded with quality food and cheap. Even stuff that is supposed to be cheap in Thailand that I used a lot like ginger, turmeric powder and pineapples are cheaper here than tops or villa. I suggest that you come back for a visit.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

And Canada is usually 20% more expensive than USA.

[Lukecan]

If you want to know what constitutes as a decent budget in the said country, you have to look at what MNC's and NGO'S + Embassies pay their staff.

Of course you won't starve to death on a 30k month budget, but is it enough for a decent upper middle class lifestyle in Bangkok? US Embassy gives its diplomatic staff 80-100k in housing allowance.

I will get bashed for saying 150-180k is the bare minimum, but apparently MNCS and Embassies agree with me : )

Just because English Teachers etc get paid 30-40k a month, it doesn't mean this is enough to live a comfy lifestyle in Bangkok. I'm not going to talk about Isaan, as I've never been there.

Edited February 7, 2015 by Lukecan

[JockPieandBeans]

Here come stupid replies. I never said Thailand is expensive, but the currency fell 20% which effectively makes it 20% more expensive.

And I am back in Canada and am comparing prices. How much the quality food costs in Thailand? I am literally located in Canadian hole (Hamilton) and you should see supermarkets here loaded with quality food and cheap. Even stuff that is supposed to be cheap in Thailand that I used a lot like ginger, turmeric powder and pineapples are cheaper here than tops or villa. I suggest that you come back for a visit.

How many Thai's, that are not attached to farangs shop in Tops or Villa market ?

Perhaps that could be part of your predicament. In 6 years of being in Thailand I have never been in Tops and VM no more than a slack handful of times.

You need to broaden your horizons IMO.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

I can't eat Asian food 24/7. I am not a Thai nor do I pretend to be one like some posters here.

[JockPieandBeans]

I can't eat Asian food 24/7. I am not a Thai nor do I pretend to be one like some posters here.

Sorry, I really do not get your logic.

I do not eat Asian food 24/7, although I will admit that I eat far more Thai food than Western food.

But I can certainly buy food and cook it Western Style without going to a Tops or VM.

[Thai at Heart]

Sure you can buy and eat Thai market food, but generally UK cheaper. Pork belly in the market here c120B+ a kilo..in the UK 75B..also no lamb, no edible beef here. Unless you go to Pratunam/ Bobae kids clothes cheaper in UK. Was in Lotus this am. Girls shorts 475B, Girls Jeans 795B. Would reckon to get both 3GBP and 6GBP in Asda/H+M in UK. Never buy clothes for myself as none fit!

Your mistake is thinking Tesco Lotus is a discount supermarket (like Walmart or Tesco in the west)

It isn't, it's a premium shopping establishment. Even nappies are 30% more in Lotus than normal Thai shops.

Women's shorts are generally 50-75Bht, jeans 200-300bht.

In both small Thai shops and markets.

You're just shopping in the wrong places (being a foreigner).

As for not getting things that fit, I'm 6' tall and have no problems.

Shirts XL Thai = L western. Jeans 36" sold everywhere.

Absolutely no excuse for being bigger.

Women's shorts are 75 baht????

I will remind ny wife about that next time. Yes, shorts in the market with Pokémon on them can be 75 baht.

Shorts anyone wishes to wear with any elegance are certainly more than that.

[fey]

If you want to know what constitutes as a decent budget in the said country, you have to look at what MNC's and NGO'S + Embassies pay their staff.

Of course you won't starve to death on a 30k month budget, but is it enough for a decent upper middle class lifestyle in Bangkok? US Embassy gives its diplomatic staff 80-100k in housing allowance.

I will get bashed for saying 150-180k is the bare minimum, but apparently MNCS and Embassies agree with me : )

Just because English Teachers etc get paid 30-40k a month, it doesn't mean this is enough to live a comfy lifestyle in Bangkok. I'm not going to talk about Isaan, as I've never been there.

cant remember the last time i met a diplomat, but it seems like the position would command a high salary.

not a position i would be applying for anytime soon. your right though in thailand it appears like foreigners are either quite well off or not. i dont see much of a comfortable middle class.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

Havent seen anyone mention Big C, is the every day grocery store in BKK, where my friend shops primarily.

I preferred Gourmet Market, because there was quality beef there.

Buffet breakfast once or twice a week at any top BKK hotel, is $20.00

that is enough to satisfy anyone's requirement for more than an omelete,

Buffet dinner at any of the better BBQ's, I prefer the Japanese style, in the malls, is also $20.00

My friend pays 18,000 baht for a three bedroom townhouse, and it is very roomy, with a terrace from one ofo the bedrooms that gives the feeling of being in the suburbs. wierd, but true.

A person can have a roomate, and cut expenses in half, and be less likely to get too lonely.

Thailand can be a great place to be with friends,

a terrible place to be alone

just ask that German guy that was found wandering in the streets, without any money, hung over from the women he was with.

Taxi's make having a car in BKK, obsolete and uncessary.

I was able to flag a cab near where my friends place, within minutes of getting to the main street as they were all headed back to Rachadapisidek, and the MRT area, so, cars aren't truly needed, provided walking in the heat is tolerable.

The one think I have a hard time with in BKK, is the heat and pollution. It's just not healthy and, the food quality isn't reliable.

The Thai girl I lived with soaked her vegetables and rinsed them repeatedly before use, something we take for granted in the US, is food reliability, although, I am sure, that is a sham as well,

with the taxi's. it was usually less than $4.00 to $5.00 with tip to go almost anywhere away from "downtown"

and usually less than $3.00 to go most places. This is about the same as a tank of gasohol, for a week, so, the idea of owning and insuring a car and then dealing with the insane traffic just doesnt make math sense to me.

Of course,

a Thai person is often neeeded to actually speak to the taxi driver, but I also found that written descriptions of where I wanted to to, say. Esplanade by Safari World, Cavern Club, Wine Bibber, etc., with the phone number of the place, was always suitable.

Edited February 7, 2015 by ScarpoFongness4U

[chiang mai]

If you want to know what constitutes as a decent budget in the said country, you have to look at what MNC's and NGO'S + Embassies pay their staff.

Of course you won't starve to death on a 30k month budget, but is it enough for a decent upper middle class lifestyle in Bangkok? US Embassy gives its diplomatic staff 80-100k in housing allowance.

I will get bashed for saying 150-180k is the bare minimum, but apparently MNCS and Embassies agree with me : )

Just because English Teachers etc get paid 30-40k a month, it doesn't mean this is enough to live a comfy lifestyle in Bangkok. I'm not going to talk about Isaan, as I've never been there.

You simply can't use expat salaries as a meaningful gauge as to the cost of living in any country, they're even less useful in trying to measure the median income of middle class nationals. Simply, expat salaries consider far more than just the cost of living of the average middle class local.

[tonray]

If you want to know what constitutes as a decent budget in the said country, you have to look at what MNC's and NGO'S + Embassies pay their staff.

Of course you won't starve to death on a 30k month budget, but is it enough for a decent upper middle class lifestyle in Bangkok? US Embassy gives its diplomatic staff 80-100k in housing allowance.

I will get bashed for saying 150-180k is the bare minimum, but apparently MNCS and Embassies agree with me : )

Just because English Teachers etc get paid 30-40k a month, it doesn't mean this is enough to live a comfy lifestyle in Bangkok. I'm not going to talk about Isaan, as I've never been there.

cant remember the last time i met a diplomat, but it seems like the position would command a high salary.

not a position i would be applying for anytime soon. your right though in thailand it appears like foreigners are either quite well off or not. i dont see much of a comfortable middle class.

Us Embassy staff living off taxpayer dollars 'struggling' to make ends meet in Bangkok...give me a break. They are paid that way because they can get away with it and salaries are kept competitive among all Embassy staffers globally at the same government (G rating) job level. That far exceeds what it takes to live in Bangkok.

[zierf1]

If you cant live in Thailand there is no way you can live in Canada. I spent most of 2014 working there and it was ridiculously expensive. Even Immigration told me the money changers at Calgary airport rip you off.

But if you think it is cheap then please go back and live there. This topic has been thrashed and abused beyond belief. Lets move on to something else

Well, I can't live in my own country so I have to live in Thailand. I'm forced out basically. Living in my home country is like living in a country full of rich people. I'm definitely not rich. I can afford an apartment for $100/mo or less. Can't find that in america anymore. They want billionaires and millionaires living in america who can pay $1,000++ for rent and $250k plus houses. I can actually live in Thailand whereas in my home country I'm stuck living with my mother.