Prayut govt 'may stay on longer'

[brucec64]

Funny, but some of the posters who are all over this story like a cheap suit are well known for being Thai bashers and usually disregard anything a Thai comes out with, unless it suits their agenda.
This guy, Thitinan Pongsudhirak said: "This interim period could be longer - longer than most of us might think."................and you have picked it up and run with it, like a dog with a lamb chop.

Well I'm not a Thai basher, and I don't have any agenda as there is no benefit to me who is in government, but I do have an opinion and voice them as many here do.
So do you think this political science academic is right or wrong or dose he have an agenda?
Do you think he will be "invited" to have a little talk with the powers that be for having dared to voice his opinion? and are these "attitude adjustments" all good in your home country?

Well if you are not a Thai basher and don't have an anti-government agenda then my comment obviously had nothing to do with you. And I do respect your opinion, whether or not I agree with it.
I don't know much about this academic Thitinan Pongsudhirak, except he seems to have very good credentials, and I merely commented on the reaction his opinion received from "some" posters.
I wonder what the reaction had have been if he said he gave full support to the military and that they were doing a good job. The same posters would have castigated him.
No, I don't think he will be invited in for a chat, he did not really say anything wrong and this stupid idea that anyone who dares to voice their opinion is marched into the gulag at gunpoint for brainwashing is just crap, propaganda created by the anti-junta crowd.
My home country does not use attitude adjustments, not that I know of. But then again the Military has never had to step in to sort out a mess like the one created by the Shinawatras either.

Ok cool,

So do you think this "attitude adjustments" a pleasant chat over a nice chamomile tea, and a please if you would be so kind request? "just propaganda created by the anti-junta crowd?" I'd like to ask you just what do you think happens in these meetings?

No, I don't think these talks are "just propaganda created by the anti-junta crowd", and if you read my post again you will see that I did not say that.
And "attitude adjustments" are just another way of saying that someone is told to pull their heads in, or else. A little bit different to the opinions of some posters who cannot comment on the Junta without making comparisons to Stalinist Russia or the Nazi Party.

I'm glad you see the trampling of basic rights as "being told to pull their heads in".

I see it as detainement without charges or due process, with the threat of not being able to leave the country, without charges or due process, followed by freezing of assets, without charges or due process.

At least people haven't been disappearing in the night, yet. But that is usually what follows.

[cmsally]

I must admit I have got to the stage where I don't really care what happens as me and my family have alternative choices.

However I have been lucky to have some quite detailed discussions with friends and acquaintances over the past few weeks who lived under communist regimes in Europe and in one case actually experienced the Hitler regime. Those talks were very interesting and I wish that the average Thai could hear what they had to say.

[tbthailand]

What was the alternative to the coup....... Civil War. Which scenario do you prefer?

A civil war would have been better for Thailand in the long run

A coup is just repeating the past as IMO nothing will change if and when they hold "Thai Style Democratic Elections"

What a suggestion!

Do you know what a civil war is?

it has nothing to do with civilization!

I think he is pointing out that there is a confrontation that has not yet taken place in Thailand and so the country is still repeating the same old cycle. That confrontation could take place in the form of open and lively debate, or, if the people are not allowed to talk, then the people can fight.

Resolving conflicts can only be done in one of two ways - talk it out or fight it out. In Thailand, honest debate is not possible and hasn't been possible which is a key factor in maintaing the status quo of the military+elite alliance running the country.

[falangjim]

And people thought Thaksin took a dump on Thailand...

[tbthailand]

Funny, but some of the posters who are all over this story like a cheap suit are well known for being Thai bashers and usually disregard anything a Thai comes out with, unless it suits their agenda.

This guy, Thitinan Pongsudhirak said: "This interim period could be longer - longer than most of us might think."................and you have picked it up and run with it, like a dog with a lamb chop.

Well I'm not a Thai basher, and I don't have any agenda as there is no benefit to me who is in government, but I do have an opinion and voice them as many here do.

So do you think this political science academic is right or wrong or dose he have an agenda?

Do you think he will be "invited" to have a little talk with the powers that be for having dared to voice his opinion? and are these "attitude adjustments" all good in your home country?

Well if you are not a Thai basher and don't have an anti-government agenda then my comment obviously had nothing to do with you. And I do respect your opinion, whether or not I agree with it.

I don't know much about this academic Thitinan Pongsudhirak, except he seems to have very good credentials, and I merely commented on the reaction his opinion received from "some" posters.

I wonder what the reaction had have been if he said he gave full support to the military and that they were doing a good job. The same posters would have castigated him.

No, I don't think he will be invited in for a chat, he did not really say anything wrong and this stupid idea that anyone who dares to voice their opinion is marched into the gulag at gunpoint for brainwashing is just crap, propaganda created by the anti-junta crowd.

My home country does not use attitude adjustments, not that I know of. But then again the Military has never had to step in to sort out a mess like the one created by the Shinawatras either.

Ok cool,

So do you think this "attitude adjustments" a pleasant chat over a nice chamomile tea, and a please if you would be so kind request? "just propaganda created by the anti-junta crowd?" I'd like to ask you just what do you think happens in these meetings?

No, I don't think these talks are "just propaganda created by the anti-junta crowd", and if you read my post again you will see that I did not say that.

And "attitude adjustments" are just another way of saying that someone is told to pull their heads in, or else. A little bit different to the opinions of some posters who cannot comment on the Junta without making comparisons to Stalinist Russia or the Nazi Party.

I'm glad you see the trampling of basic rights as "being told to pull their heads in".

I see it as detainement without charges or due process, with the threat of not being able to leave the country, without charges or due process, followed by freezing of assets, without charges or due process.

At least people haven't been disappearing in the night, yet. But that is usually what follows.

actually they have.

Remember Kritsuda - she was gone for weeks and no one knew where she was until the 'NCPO' admitted that they had her.

You may also have noticed in the latest round of 'invitations', that the General has been so bold as to state openly that there has not been any official notice of detentions. He stated that they just call the people up (or show up where they are) and invite them for a 'visit'. The detentions of well known figures are noticed. Others???

The 'NCPO' has only ever pretended to be transparent, now they don't even pretend.

This isn't getting better. But I never expected it to get better before it got worse. I think/fear that we still have a long way to go before Thailand hits the low point.

[sweatalot]

What was the alternative to the coup....... Civil War. Which scenario do you prefer?

A democratic election with the military helping to protect voters and venues a reasonable alternative perhaps?

A democratic election - but only

after a long period of brain dewashing - may be Thailand is in it now

[EyesWideOpen]

I propose a betting pool on the length of time Prayut stays in power.

I will go first, with a guess at five years. Power can be a lot of fun, and can also

be a lot of work. So like a toy that is played with a lot, it can be

boring , so the toy gets put away......

[AnotherOneAmerican]

I propose a betting pool on the length of time Prayut stays in power.

I will go first, with a guess at five years. Power can be a lot of fun, and can also

be a lot of work. So like a toy that is played with a lot, it can be

boring , so the toy gets put away......

No, you can't go first.

I already made my bet, until he is dead, so that makes you second.

[sweatalot]

The subject is they "May stay longer" But then again they "May not".

The usual bashers have taken it as "They will" with the usual twist.

The sooner the country returns to democratic elections the better, however they must be fair in that all parties must be able to campaign in every electorate without fear of threats or intimidation.

Voters must be free of threats, bribery or intimidation by any party.

Those with a criminal history, on bail for criminal charges or who have ever been banned from politics for fraud or corruption must are not allowed to stand as a candidate for a constituency or be on a party list.

Checks and balances must be in place with serious penalties for corruption and provision made so the checks and balances can not be eroded as they have in the past.

"Government for the people by the people"........Not "Government for the politicians by the politicians".

The sooner the country returns to democratic elections the better, however they must be fair in that all parties must be able to campaign in every electorate without fear of threats or intimidation.

Unfortunately it will not be very soon until they will be fair in that all parties must be able to campaign in every electorate without fear of threats or intimidation.

I prefer the military stays in power until that is achieved

- otherwise the coup and everything since then would soon be reversed and it all would start new with no democracy in sight, only "democratic" elections

[sweatalot]

I could be totally off in my thinking (it wouldn't be the first time), but in some ways I think a Civil War would have been better than the continual worthless coups. Yes, it would be bloody, there would be a lot of deaths, but when it finally ended, perhaps people would have been able to step back and see what their "iron clad beliefs" had finally brought them to.

Perhaps then people could actually, truly reflect on their problems and realize that the past was not the way to go, and would finally join together to look for, and word towards, a better future for all. It's clear that the constant "elections-coup-elections-coup" cycle isn't working, and never has, and what is needed is a total washing of the system, and a totally new start.

As I said, this is just my opinion, and I'm not always right (even though I tell my wife that I am)

are you aware of the possibility that a civil war could end in a tyranny or a bloody dictatorship with no civil rights anymore?

Another North Korea f.i.?

Examples galore in the past

I am grateful that the coup prevented civil war

Edited February 1, 2015 by sweatalot

[sweatalot]

You do know who the old guard is, right ?

I am not sure what you mean

- but Thaksin is part of it for sure

[monk213]

well well well, I am going to fall off of my damn chair, I am in shock!! I remember when the coop went down and all the people on TV saying how amazing this is and how he will turn Thailand around and let a democracy swoop in in no time.. Some of you have changed your opinions over time I have noticed. Anyway those travel plans to Laos are looking a lot more appealing with each passing week (and now IDGAF what you think or say) - 'bye bye we won't miss you' I know, I know

[EyesWideOpen]

I propose a betting pool on the length of time Prayut stays in power.

I will go first, with a guess at five years. Power can be a lot of fun, and can also

be a lot of work. So like a toy that is played with a lot, it can be

boring , so the toy gets put away......

No, you can't go first.

I already made my bet, until he is dead, so that makes you second.

Technically in this thread.... :-) I did post on another

thread yesterday with my prediction of three to five

years. But now am changing to five years after additional

thought. Long term holders of office where you are

the only one giving orders generally have a somewhat

sad and lethal ending. Best to avoid that by not overstaying

your time in office.......

Post three. With my three to five year prediction....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/796338-prayut-seeks-time-to-make-kingdom-stronger-rejects-outside-assistance/

Edited February 1, 2015 by EyesWideOpen

[sweatalot]

What a suggestion!

Do you know what a civil war is?

it has nothing to do with civilization!

Really?

Generally civil war is when one segment of society violently disagrees with the civilzation that the other segment wants to live by.

Only the sick want death but what other way can the people finally remove all army influence in politics. The army should doing the bidding of the democratically elected government, not conspired with a violent opposition (Suthep) to remove the said government. The good general now finds himself in the position that Suthep wanted for the country. That is no elections and a hand picked mob to run the country. I would guess it will be nearer to ten years than 5 to democratically remove these treasonists from office

"democratically elected government, not conspired with a violent opposition "

you are talking about the red shirt violence against the democratic Abhisit government, are you?

[Alwyn]

What was the alternative to the coup....... Civil War. Which scenario do you prefer?

Here's the thing.. Who was complaining about the previous and elected government. Nobody really, not until that mental case Suthep started off. If not for him and his backers there would not have been any threat of a civil war, would there> It was a simple plan, backed and financed by certain peoples who had been displaced from the trough of corruption and wanted back in. They didn't like that ordinary Thai farmers even had the right to vote. Bring on the General who was instrumental in the previous coup, tell him he's going to be PM and off you go, plan A is away and Suthep is causing chaos and inciting hatred. There never would have been a civil war. Every time one party gets the hump with the ruling party, here comes a the coup. Not the vote, the coup. It was obvious to most people this coup was different. The general is here to stay, kiss democracy and all of the benefits it brings such a free speech, freedom of press etc goodbye, The General, the Junta and martial law are going nowhere.

[Alwyn]

<quote> "The current coup did not fulfil the aspiration of the People's Democratic Reform Committee but it fulfilled the aspiration of the military elites," he said.

There you have it folks. Everybody happy? I can name a couple who are ecstatic, but normal people? Probably not

[cumgranosalum]

They are trying to ensure a constitution that will turn the clocks back in Thailand, protect the throne, and prevent any popularist politicians form taking power.....or any politicians at all if it comes to that.

[ggt]

General Prayut Chan-o-cha's government may stay in power longer than most people expect...

Properly elected officials would stay on longer if their government's constitution did not forbid them staying in office as long as they like...

What is to keep this unelected Thai government from finding one reason after another to prolong elections...?

Basically, nothing...they can contrive all sorts of scenarios which make it imperative for them to remain in power...

This could become an area of contention for those who do not like the coup to begin with...

[ravip]

What a suggestion!

Do you know what a civil war is?

it has nothing to do with civilization!

Really?

Generally civil war is when one segment of society violently disagrees with the civilzation that the other segment wants to live by.

My sincere apologies for my ignorance.

So it is a civilized thing?

Now I understand better all the misery in this world.

[ravip]

What was the alternative to the coup....... Civil War. Which scenario do you prefer?

A civil war would have been better for Thailand in the long run

A coup is just repeating the past as IMO nothing will change if and when they hold "Thai Style Democratic Elections"

What a suggestion!

Do you know what a civil war is?

it has nothing to do with civilization!

I think he is pointing out that there is a confrontation that has not yet taken place in Thailand and so the country is still repeating the same old cycle. That confrontation could take place in the form of open and lively debate, or, if the people are not allowed to talk, then the people can fight.

Resolving conflicts can only be done in one of two ways - talk it out or fight it out. In Thailand, honest debate is not possible and hasn't been possible which is a key factor in maintaing the status quo of the military+elite alliance running the country.

Fights can last for decades.

Then the 'humanitarians' and the arms manufacturers will chip in and enjoy life at the expense of the fighting nation.

War should NOT be an option IMHO

[rickirs]

The PDRC/Democrats are probably the most disappointed parties to the long-term entrenchment of the military into the governance of Thailand.

I suspect they thought that repeating the chain of events that led to the 2006 coup and the election of the Democrats for control of government would again trigger another coup to reset the political landscape in favor of the Democrats for 2014. But the military took an unexpected path by implementing Articles 17 and 44 of the Interim Charter.

Both the Demoracts and the PTP took exception to the Junta's domination of the nation through the NCPO Interim Charter. Abhisit expressed disapproval of Article 17 that was similar to the charter put in place by Field Marshal Sarit Thanarat after the coup in 1958. As such he said the NCPO was not "striking a balance between controlling people and allowing them their rights." He said that Provision 44 "provided the NCPO with unprecedented special powers independent of the prime minister and without checks and balances....Article 44 offers power beyond security, as it covers any activities carried out in the interest of reform and for the promotion of national reconciliation,'' Abhisit also "questioned the necessity of the council having legislative and judicial powers, as the NCPO members are already sitting on the National Legislative Assembly and the Reform Council."

Democrat Party deputy leader Nipit Intarasombat said Article 44 is like a gun that can be used for self-defence and to protect or even to harm others.

The Democrats and Abhisit in particular are seeing a different government that will be designed to be occupied by a weak political party, subservient to military oversight. So should the Democrats gain partial (ie., coalition) or full occupation of the government, it will be a hallow victory. In an odd sense the Democrats will come to regret instigating events that destroyed a free and open participatory democratic government and left Democrats with even less political power than it had with a PTP government.

[tbthailand]

The PDRC/Democrats are probably the most disappointed parties to the long-term entrenchment of the military into the governance of Thailand.

I suspect they thought that repeating the chain of events that led to the 2006 coup and the election of the Democrats for control of government would again trigger another coup to reset the political landscape in favor of the Democrats for 2014. But the military took an unexpected path by implementing Articles 17 and 44 of the Interim Charter.

Both the Demoracts and the PTP took exception to the Junta's domination of the nation through the NCPO Interim Charter. Abhisit expressed disapproval of Article 17 that was similar to the charter put in place by Field Marshal Sarit Thanarat after the coup in 1958. As such he said the NCPO was not "striking a balance between controlling people and allowing them their rights." He said that Provision 44 "provided the NCPO with unprecedented special powers independent of the prime minister and without checks and balances....Article 44 offers power beyond security, as it covers any activities carried out in the interest of reform and for the promotion of national reconciliation,'' Abhisit also "questioned the necessity of the council having legislative and judicial powers, as the NCPO members are already sitting on the National Legislative Assembly and the Reform Council."

Democrat Party deputy leader Nipit Intarasombat said Article 44 is like a gun that can be used for self-defence and to protect or even to harm others.

The Democrats and Abhisit in particular are seeing a different government that will be designed to be occupied by a weak political party, subservient to military oversight. So should the Democrats gain partial (ie., coalition) or full occupation of the government, it will be a hallow victory. In an odd sense the Democrats will come to regret instigating events that destroyed a free and open participatory democratic government and left Democrats with even less political power than it had with a PTP government.

Interesting that you think the PDRC/Dem would be disappointed. It is an interesting angle.

Your points do make it clear that, like martial law, the 'NCPO' and the interim 'charter' can stick around as long as the General wants.... There is no expiration date.

[cumgranosalum]

What a suggestion!

Do you know what a civil war is?

it has nothing to do with civilization!

Really?

Generally civil war is when one segment of society violently disagrees with the civilzation that the other segment wants to live by.

Sorry - that's not civil war - you're confusing your vocabulary.

this is a workable definition.

"A civil war is a war between organised groups within the same state or republic" - wiki - it has little to do with civilisation.

[cumgranosalum]

The PDRC/Democrats are probably the most disappointed parties to the long-term entrenchment of the military into the governance of Thailand.

I suspect they thought that repeating the chain of events that led to the 2006 coup and the election of the Democrats for control of government would again trigger another coup to reset the political landscape in favor of the Democrats for 2014. But the military took an unexpected path by implementing Articles 17 and 44 of the Interim Charter.

Both the Demoracts and the PTP took exception to the Junta's domination of the nation through the NCPO Interim Charter. Abhisit expressed disapproval of Article 17 that was similar to the charter put in place by Field Marshal Sarit Thanarat after the coup in 1958. As such he said the NCPO was not "striking a balance between controlling people and allowing them their rights." He said that Provision 44 "provided the NCPO with unprecedented special powers independent of the prime minister and without checks and balances....Article 44 offers power beyond security, as it covers any activities carried out in the interest of reform and for the promotion of national reconciliation,'' Abhisit also "questioned the necessity of the council having legislative and judicial powers, as the NCPO members are already sitting on the National Legislative Assembly and the Reform Council."

Democrat Party deputy leader Nipit Intarasombat said Article 44 is like a gun that can be used for self-defence and to protect or even to harm others.

The Democrats and Abhisit in particular are seeing a different government that will be designed to be occupied by a weak political party, subservient to military oversight. So should the Democrats gain partial (ie., coalition) or full occupation of the government, it will be a hallow victory. In an odd sense the Democrats will come to regret instigating events that destroyed a free and open participatory democratic government and left Democrats with even less political power than it had with a PTP government.

Interesting that you think the PDRC/Dem would be disappointed. It is an interesting angle.

Your points do make it clear that, like martial law, the 'NCPO' and the interim 'charter' can stick around as long as the General wants.... There is no expiration date.

Sadly the Democrats - and Abhisit in particular have never lived up to their party name. in recent decades at least. many regard Abhisit as a "westernised" moderate yet his actions whilst PM - including draconian restrictions on free speech (especially use of Lese Majeste laws) etc would indicate otherwise.

He has repeatedly failed to get elected as PM and it is fairly certain that he would accept any post offered him by the military.

[ChiangraiTony]

Funny, but some of the posters who are all over this story like a cheap suit are well known for being Thai bashers and usually disregard anything a Thai comes out with, unless it suits their agenda.

This guy, Thitinan Pongsudhirak said: "This interim period could be longer - longer than most of us might think."................and you have picked it up and run with it, like a dog with a lamb chop.

The article went on to say: "The Army is not set up to rule in the globalised 21st century. I'm afraid that the interim [period of military governance] could be indefinite."

[EyesWideOpen]

You do know who the old guard is, right ?

I am not sure what you mean

- but Thaksin is part of it for sure

Nope, not even close....

[draftvader]

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[brewsterbudgen]

The PDRC/Democrats are probably the most disappointed parties to the long-term entrenchment of the military into the governance of Thailand.

I suspect they thought that repeating the chain of events that led to the 2006 coup and the election of the Democrats for control of government would again trigger another coup to reset the political landscape in favor of the Democrats for 2014. But the military took an unexpected path by implementing Articles 17 and 44 of the Interim Charter.

Both the Demoracts and the PTP took exception to the Junta's domination of the nation through the NCPO Interim Charter. Abhisit expressed disapproval of Article 17 that was similar to the charter put in place by Field Marshal Sarit Thanarat after the coup in 1958. As such he said the NCPO was not "striking a balance between controlling people and allowing them their rights." He said that Provision 44 "provided the NCPO with unprecedented special powers independent of the prime minister and without checks and balances....Article 44 offers power beyond security, as it covers any activities carried out in the interest of reform and for the promotion of national reconciliation,'' Abhisit also "questioned the necessity of the council having legislative and judicial powers, as the NCPO members are already sitting on the National Legislative Assembly and the Reform Council."

Democrat Party deputy leader Nipit Intarasombat said Article 44 is like a gun that can be used for self-defence and to protect or even to harm others.

The Democrats and Abhisit in particular are seeing a different government that will be designed to be occupied by a weak political party, subservient to military oversight. So should the Democrats gain partial (ie., coalition) or full occupation of the government, it will be a hallow victory. In an odd sense the Democrats will come to regret instigating events that destroyed a free and open participatory democratic government and left Democrats with even less political power than it had with a PTP government.

Som nam na

[Baerboxer]

What was the alternative to the coup....... Civil War. Which scenario do you prefer?

A democratic election with the military helping to protect voters and venues a reasonable alternative perhaps?

Or even better, with a professional non corrupt politically controlled civil police force doing it's real job?

[Baerboxer]

They are trying to ensure a constitution that will turn the clocks back in Thailand, protect the throne, and prevent any popularist politicians form taking power.....or any politicians at all if it comes to that.

especially corrupt politicians or ones that sell out to rule by a non elected fugitive convicted criminal?

If only...........