The joy of Thai

[dragonfly94]

lovely she is:

[kkerry]

Learn Thai and you are rewarded by understanding Thai movies and comedy shows on television.... not sure which thread I should post to...

[dragonfly94]

So are there a lot of misunderstanding s in the Thai language

In my example, my builders didn't understand a word of English. Speaking/writing Thai was absolutely required to ensure that they didn't go and build in the wrong place etc.

Funny you should say that as we have the builders in now, and they don't seem to understand a word of Thai. Well they do, then just ignore instructions and do it their way, could be a song in that.

[eeeya]

How degrading it would be to get your wife to do everything for you. Imagine having a wife back home that didn't speak a word of English and you had to do every single thing for her.. Same same no?

[laislica]

Dear OP,

I see where you are coming from but I think your post is just perhaps, just a tad unbalanced.

It might have been nice if you acknowledged some of the posts that were positive?

Strewth!

[laislica]

How degrading it would be to get your wife to do everything for you. Imagine having a wife back home that didn't speak a word of English and you had to do every single thing for her.. Same same no?

Interesting comment.

I live half time in Spain and half time in Thailand.

My wife speaks a little English and no Spanish and the area we live in they only speaks Spanish.

Still she can go to the shops alone and buy clothes, fruit n veg, go to the supermarket.

Order ice cream, use the ATM (LOL) etc.

Other than that I or one of her Thai friends there, have to do everything for her and it's no problem at all.

I do a similar thing in Thailand with my limited Thai.

Take the m/c to the shop for repair.

go to shops-supermarket-buy petrol, gas, water, get a hair cut, visit the ATM etc.

However, we both appreciate the help we get when we need to be helped - if it don't break you it makes you stronger.

(OP, sorry, I replied to your post first and now am going backwards through the thread LOL)

[laislica]

Learn Thai and you are rewarded by understanding Thai movies and comedy shows on television.... not sure which thread I should post to...

You forgot the Boiiiing sound LOL

When first in Thailand as my wife watched TV, I asked her why children's programs were run so late.....

Oops, they are for Adults! Boiiiing whup whup whup, Boiing !

[Gecko123]

Dear OP,

I see where you are coming from but I think your post is just perhaps, just a tad unbalanced.

It might have been nice if you acknowledged some of the posts that were positive?

Strewth!

Point well taken.

[laislica]

The benefits generally dont outway the time spent doing it. Thais that dont speak any english at all usualy arent worth any meaningful conversation in my experience anyway and my thai is reasonible.

Ya think?

I wanted to try to find "Copy" refills for my HP printer in BKK.

The sales staff in Central world Palamson said they didn't speak English - so they got my Thai!

It was excruciating - for them I'm sure.

I suggested they should not be shy (kîi-​aai) speak English!

With this prompting and some patience, one of them started to speak English, all be it badly and slowly.

Between us we got the job done.

I learned a wee bit and the staffer learned he could speak English,only he needed to give himself permission to do so!

Same for us - just because you cock up is no reason to give up.

If you ask me nicely, I will tell you a very funny story of my attempts at Chinese in 1969 up the mountains in Penang Malaysia!

Well, several stories actually. I was a lad of 27, first real trip working in a land where I couldn't speak the language.

The best fun in my life, for sure!

[LuckyLew]

I speak a little bit of Thai but no one understands me

speak French and all the Parisiennes laughed at my Quebecois accents

I speak English and no one hear understands me

Seems that if you are in a country that speaks a foreign language to yours it is not always appreciated

I will however keep trying as I would like to be able to know what bad things my daughter will be saying about me when she is a teenager

One word at a time I will learn

[laislica]

I did business in Switzerland. As I was on a language frontier I had to learn French and Swiss German, plus High German for correspondence. Now Swiss German probably is dying out but without it I should never have got where I got, both socially, culturally and in business. Now, 40 years later, I feel most frustrated that I can't memorise much Thai vocabulary (the tones are ok, I was some sort of musician) and can only stutter out a few words and phrases. But I wonder: how do people react to traffic signs if they can't read Thai? I can to some extent. Nobody got 91 petrol in his car when he wanted diesel? How about finding the correct bus destination? I think that even in Morchit they don't write destinations in English.

I read so much about Brits complaining about immigrants to the UK that don't want to learn English...

Many English speakers don't realise that they don't really understand the structure of their own language. Just try to explain the difference between an object and a subject, an adjective and an adverb, their eyes glaze over. How can you expect them to learn another language, if they have never been forced to think about why and how things are expressed?

Anyway, happily my wife, who after two years of schooling taught herself an English better than most teachers here are capable of, helps me out, as does her 8 year old granddaughter. I can't imagine what things here must be like for people with no understanding for, or willingness to, learn Thai must be like. I know that there are a lot of opinionated people on Thaivisa that know nothing about the 'real' Thailand at all.

Cooked,

your last statement hear has made me think.

"I know that there are a lot of opinionated people on Thaivisa that know nothing about the 'real' Thailand at all"

I am thinking that " the real Thailand" is a different place for different people.

I am guilty of thinking of rural Isaan where I live as "the rel Thailand" and thinking of Bangkok as some other country.

Also of thinking of the tourist areas and expat communities in the south as yet another country.

Where and how you live determines what 'the real Thailand " is for you.

​An English speaking expat living in Patttaya for instance, where there are many English speaking expats, tourist and Thais who work in the service industry, probably has little need to learn to speak Thai in his "real Thailand."

Where I live, there are very few expats, tourist or English speaking Thais.

My "real Thailand is very different and requires very different life skills.

"The Real Thailand" may be a good topic for a new thread here on TV.

Just what and where is "the real Thailand" for you???

Spot on.

I also live in the styx, without a basic understanding of Thai language, life would be very sad.

Reading is another subject.

[Robby nz]

Many advantages of being able to speak and read at least some Thai, me I'm far from proficient but get by.

Living in a small town very few people speak English, why should they ? they are unlikely to come across a foreigner to need to, but saying that it is sometimes surprising who can speak some English.

I get around the farms a fair bit taking photos and many farmers want to talk and I am often surprised that they can speak some, and in a few case very good English, so much for the dumb peasants we read the 'informed' on here posting about.

I can order and get what I want at shops, read the menu in Thai places. Went to a national park on my own recently and when the man at the gate reaslised I could understand him and speak to him in Thai he only charged me Thai price.

I also have found it a big advantage in trying to help the lady bosses sisters kids with their English, to be able to explain the Thai name and the equivalent English name for something without the need for a picture and to use the Thai vowel sounds to get across the correct sounds of English words.

I must stop being lazy and study some more.

[Petchou]

As far as I can see all the points in OP are valid.

I spend 15 years in Quebec and refused to learn the language for the very same reasons.

You missed the boat. Quebeckers can be so funny...

[Dumbastheycome]

I have acquired some reasonable understanding of spoken Thai and have the ability to speak simple requests. But after 12 years I am still unable to be understood if I attempt a conversation. And yes, I also get the laughing reaction. English is my first language, Brasilian Portugese I can still remember enough to get by after 4 years there, and am still reasonably fluent in Bahasa Indonesia only because I still go there and use it....selectively. In Indo , as in Thailand, people are always curious about your ability to speak the common language. But often if they discover that you are will swap to their own dialect to avoid comprehension. Thais often test you with rapid fire questions seemingly just to get amusement either from your lack of comprehension or incomprehensible attempts to reply. My usual answer to avoid that is " rue mark....mai put". It also cuts off the opportunity for being talked about directly in your face. My wife has attempted to teach me but now realizes that I cannot master the tonals. She now has a good spoken vocab and an excellent comprehension. So while it would be nice to know (how to speak) I/we have never found it of critical importance. To balance the situation most Thais around us are impressed by her fluency in English which makes her happy. Her education was typically Issan of the times. Her joke is that she had the highest possible education. She rarely went school. Instead she hid at the top of a tall tree from the teachers.Unfortunately that has limited her own ability to read and write well in Thai.

[Swampypoom]

I think it is very important to at least know the basics of hello, how are you doing, please, thank you, good night, welcome, numbers, and food items along with useful information such as addresses for taxis and asking for the check when paying for a meal.

The facial expressions are priceless when I say hello in perfect Thai to a THAI cabin attendant whilst holding a U.S. Passport. It always strikes a conversation of where I am from since I am Mixed Asian.

[NoshowJones]

cutest girls are available when u speak thai , otherwise they wont even look at u

Plenty of girls looked at me when I first came to Thailand, and I couldn't speak any Thai, I had no problem getting dates with them, but then I'm handsome.

[swissie]

I was involved in a property dispute about a decade ago here. While I cannot claim that if I had not been able to communicate in Thai I would have lost the case, I can say that language skills played a key role in determining the final favorable outcome.

For starters, if I had been unable to communicate in Thai, because of the stress of being involved in a legal dispute in a foreign country, I would likely have caved in under the pressure, and walked away. I also would have been cut off from much of the moral or emotional support I received from the local community. Because in the countryside few Thai attorneys speak English, I would have been forced to hire a Bangkok based attorney or a translator throughout the ordeal. This would have added substantially to the legal expenses. I did a lot of legal research down in Bangkok at Chulalongkorn and Thammast universities at their law libraries and consulting with law professors. This would not have been possible without an ability to speak, read and write ThaI. I also would not have been able to identify key witnesses and arrange for their testimony without being able to speak Thai. Finally, I was a far more compelling and credible witness in court because I could testify in Thai.

All told, if you add up the value of the disputed property, the value of having the right to use the property since the case was settled, as well as the additional expenses which I avoided by not having to hire a Bangkok based English speaking attorney, it would not be an exaggeration to say that being able to communicate in Thai may have saved me as much as $250,000 in this case!!!

I would say that is an excellent return on the small amount of money I invested in learning Thai.

So the property dispute was 10 years ago. Assuming you were already fluent in Thai at this time, I wonder how anyone could have fleeced you in a way that made you end up in a Thai court of law.

There is a contradiction: Your Thai-skills have not prevented you to fall into some Thai-Trap, but the same Thai-skills have enabled you to win a court battle in Thailand? Strange, isn't it ?

========================================================================================

But otherwise , your summation of quotes in your OP,, regarding "reasons not to learn Thai" are overwhelmingly correct and depressingly accurate and taken out of real live (point by point).

Given that, hard to continue this thread on a positive note as requested by you.

Cheers.

[bheard]

Some nationalities are simply [intellectually] incapable learning another language because they take their own language (and themselves) too seriously. This includes a lot of Thai people too btw, not just farang. Others, like myself, assign no value whatsoever to their nationality nor mothertongue and have bothered to learn 5 foreign languages in the last 20 years. Keeps the brain lucid too!

The main motivation for me to speak and understand [enough] Thai is so that I'd be able to hear what people say about/around me.

Yesterday, getting a traditional Thai massage, two Thai women were talking about "farang" in general; how dirty (Sokkaprok!) "we" are, how "we" smell (Min!) and only come here for blackskinned (Dam!) hookers (mind you, the women gossipping were pretty dark themselves but covered in talk powder but too old and too fat to ever make a chance with just any desperate farang, haha), how "we" this and "we" that, all utter xenophobic stereotype cr*p. When they were finished I asked them in Thai, with poker face and the gayiest voice ever: Hello ladies, let's talk about Thai men now. How they spend their quality time in 700THB brothels, totally p*ssed, getting laid with STD infested girls. The art of being Grengjai, I'm such a master ;-)

That, dear TVF friends is one of the reasons I couldn't miss speaking a little Thai. To have a good profound chitchat with the locals!

All good, hearing what is said and then coming up with a party crasher is sooo nice!

Actually for me the real benifit of speaking Thai is something to do with self esteem - learning and being competent with a difficult to learn skill (difficult for an old codger anyway).

[Patels77]

If you can't speak Thai in Thailand you are stuck in a bubble, but I appreciate to learn Thai requires motivation, and for me it was the country people that inspired me.

i always loved life upcountry in Thailand, the space, the weather, the easy going nature of the people, the music- morlam, luktung, the food- somtam, fish, chicken, sticky rice, etc all appealed to me before I met my wife. I've always felt at home upcountry, people rely on themselves, their community so much, neighbours gossip, sure, that's a universal trait, but the atmosphere, pace and way of life is something perhaps only those who grow up in villages can really appreciate.

The Cheesy animation - http://www.thecheesyanimation.com/3D-Walkthrough.html

[Gecko123]

So the property dispute was 10 years ago. Assuming you were already fluent in Thai at this time, I wonder how anyone could have fleeced you in a way that made you end up in a Thai court of law.

There is a contradiction: Your Thai-skills have not prevented you to fall into some Thai-Trap, but the same Thai-skills have enabled you to win a court battle in Thailand? Strange, isn't it ?

Language skills aren't going to give you force field protection against someone trying to rip you off.

I don't see a contradiction here.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Gecko123

[LawrenceN]

cutest girls are available when u speak thai , otherwise they wont even look at u

Yeah, that's how I met my wife. She was studying for her doctorate at the University of Missouri. I got her attention because I was the only guy there who walked up to her, started a conversation, and asked for her phone number, all in Thai. The rest (including our 25-year-old daughter) is history.

[TomYumpoochai]

Ive always wanted to get some level of conversational thai but most of the op points are correct. I can tell when im being spoken badly about, they dont talk about anything of ANY interest, my long time g/f does not try to advance my thai so that i can at least chat with her mum and most of the time she nags me about 'wanting to know too much' as 'thai people dont like to think'.

Please do rock up now and apologise to her because i want to 'know too much'

[Wat dee]

You don't have to think stupid,idiotic and totally nonsense excuses why you shouldn't learn Thai.

[LawrenceN]

I'm a cyclist and a golfer. When I'm out on a bicycle, I can stop and ask anyone for directions, never worry about being lost. The people I talk to are invariably friendly, helpful, and curious. I'm a repeat customer at noodle and coffee shops, and the sellers greet me like an old friend whenever I drop in. Like the fellow above who talks to shop owners about his crops, fertilizers, etc., I talk to farmers about crops. I come home and tell my neighbors (non-farmers) why there's no water in the canals around us, or why there is.

On the golf course, I have the same caddy every time I play at two different courses here in Chiang Mai. I know about their kids and family, they know about mine. We share jokes and food. I'm often asked by the caddies or other golfers to translate, which helps to avoid miscommunication.

When I go to a restaurant, I can read the menu. Imagine that, go to any restaurant anywhere and read the menu.

Your post, OP, points out the mistakes and preconceptions that people have about learning Thai. So Thai has 44 consonants? Don't forget that the English alphabet has 52 letters, upper and lower case, which Thai doesn't have. You can learn a bunch of random symbols that represent sounds in a month if you set your mind to it.

Another big mistake that people make is dismissing tones. Tones in Thai matter, and reading Thai gives you the equipment to deal with it. We who learn Thai as a 2nd language need to remember to mimic exactly what we hear, not ignoring the tones. If you're learning music or bird calls, you attempt to identify and duplicate what you hear, but many people somehow can't quite grasp how profoundly tonal Thai is, and so dismiss the importance of speaking tonally. Going back to reading for a moment, if you're learning music or bird calls, you learn to read music or sonographs to represent those sounds accurately. There are systems in place for that. Why then do so many people dismiss the Thai system of writing when they come here? Just as a bird doesn't recognize you as a bird when you say "cheep, tweet," Thai people can't recognize those sounds you make if you insist on trying to represent them with a set of characters that are inadequate for the job, that is, the Roman/European/English alphabet.

Enough typing. I'm probably preaching to the choir here anyway.

[Gecko123]

You can talk to children and older people, most of whom can't communicate in English.

It sends a very powerful message of respect, which builds trust, which is the foundation of all relationships.

[bazza40]

If you are out in the boondocks with a blown tyre, need food or an urgent need for a toilet, you'd better be able to speak some Thai or things will not go well for you. There aren't too many shopping malls or 7/11's out there.

I've found a major positive in trying to learn as much Thai as possible is it can help ward off Alzheimers.

Now where did I put my car keys?

[carter1882]

Excellent post and fair to that thread. I think the reason i didnt comment there is that i was too busy shaking my head in wonder at the idiocy, idiocy based on the frustration at being unable to communicate, i believe. My whole raison d'etre in being here in my early days in the eighties was to learn Thai. I was successful by any standard. I rose to be the head of the Thai department at a major international school, was responsible for introducing Thai first language IGCSE qualifications into Thailand, introduced my own Thai studies cultural curriculum, wrote twenty plays performed by children at my school promoting Thai culture. I am retired now and i can look back on learning the Thai language as the single most important thing i have ever done. Its made me wealthy financially as well as fulfilled. Even considering all the material possessions I have amassed and the pride in my residency in the kingdom, i feel that the thing i "own" that has the most value is my Thai ability. I would not be the oerson i am without it. In my private life the ability to not just speak but read and write Thai accurately has made life so comfortable, so much more fun. It has also helped immeasurably in helping me become thoroughly involved in the Thai crossword gaming scene and even though I am English i have represented Thailand many times in international competition, being thoroughly respected and warmly accepted into the fold. I adore Thailand, admire the Thai people of all social strata and have no wish to live anywhere else, ever. Positive enough my friend?

[atyclb]

Some nationalities are simply [intellectually] incapable learning another language because they take their own language (and themselves) too seriously. This includes a lot of Thai people too btw, not just farang. Others, like myself, assign no value whatsoever to their nationality nor mothertongue and have bothered to learn 5 foreign languages in the last 20 years. Keeps the brain lucid too!

The main motivation for me to speak and understand [enough] Thai is so that I'd be able to hear what people say about/around me.

Yesterday, getting a traditional Thai massage, two Thai women were talking about "farang" in general; how dirty (Sokkaprok!) "we" are, how "we" smell (Min!) and only come here for blackskinned (Dam!) hookers (mind you, the women gossipping were pretty dark themselves but covered in talk powder but too old and too fat to ever make a chance with just any desperate farang, haha), how "we" this and "we" that, all utter xenophobic stereotype cr*p. When they were finished I asked them in Thai, with poker face and the gayiest voice ever: Hello ladies, let's talk about Thai men now. How they spend their quality time in 700THB brothels, totally p*ssed, getting laid with STD infested girls. The art of being Grengjai, I'm such a master ;-)

That, dear TVF friends is one of the reasons I couldn't miss speaking a little Thai. To have a good profound chitchat with the locals!

can you enlighten me and explain why it seems the vast majority do indeed hang out with dark skin hookers and or some non hookers?

a female accountant friend has asked me for the explanation

[laislica]

If you are out in the boondocks with a blown tyre, need food or an urgent need for a toilet, you'd better be able to speak some Thai or things will not go well for you. There aren't too many shopping malls or 7/11's out there.

I've found a major positive in trying to learn as much Thai as possible is it can help ward off Alzheimers.

Now where did I put my car keys?

However, when needs must, the Devil drives hard.

Just in Thailand a few weeks, out for a ride on a borrowed, very delapidated scooter.

Petrol guage not working but I was assured that there was loads of petrol on board, more than enough for my intended trip.

OK, on the way back, really in the middle of nowhere, ran out of juice!

The nearest help was a small holding with a Thai couple who spoke no English, I could say Nam.

However, with hand gestures they understood the bike needed juice.

I handed over 100b and the husbands wife got on her m/c with a can, returning in 10 mins, filled me up an off I went.

Actually, I only had 200b on me at that time. Nearest ATM probably 15Km away.....

It can be done - if you have to.

That was three years ago and I can do a lot better than that now!

Summer 2012 I spent alone in Spain. I had a downloaded Thai course and listened to a vocab loop.

For several hours a day.

Then I ran the short sentences loop, again for several hours per day.

In four months I had mastered the numbers, the colours, many fruit/veg/meats and the names of many things.

It was not "meaningful learning", more a bunch of words and phrases.

On my return to Thailand I have been too busy to continue to dedicate time to continuing to learn.

However, I am amazed at how much just jumps out from hearing the Tv or Thai conversations my wife has with friends or family.

I have the Word in the Hand talking dictionary and it is a God send.

Learning a language should really be done like babies do it. Spend a year or so just listening, soaking it up.

Then stutter out a word or two and soon whole sentences arrive and after about six years the language is perfect, grammar and all.

The only thing is, one needs the same teaching method that the baby got. Meaningful words - with corresponding actions, repeated over and over.

Learning by rote is extremely hard, especially when you are hard of - years LOL.

But, Why don't people listen to what I mean - not what I say

Trying to converse with someone who's language is not the same as yours actually requires you to be a detective and guess what they mean rather than simply hearing what they say.

[stickylies]

Some nationalities are simply [intellectually] incapable learning another language because they take their own language (and themselves) too seriously. This includes a lot of Thai people too btw, not just farang. Others, like myself, assign no value whatsoever to their nationality nor mothertongue and have bothered to learn 5 foreign languages in the last 20 years. Keeps the brain lucid too!

The main motivation for me to speak and understand [enough] Thai is so that I'd be able to hear what people say about/around me.

Yesterday, getting a traditional Thai massage, two Thai women were talking about "farang" in general; how dirty (Sokkaprok!) "we" are, how "we" smell (Min!) and only come here for blackskinned (Dam!) hookers (mind you, the women gossipping were pretty dark themselves but covered in talk powder but too old and too fat to ever make a chance with just any desperate farang, haha), how "we" this and "we" that, all utter xenophobic stereotype cr*p. When they were finished I asked them in Thai, with poker face and the gayiest voice ever: Hello ladies, let's talk about Thai men now. How they spend their quality time in 700THB brothels, totally p*ssed, getting laid with STD infested girls. The art of being Grengjai, I'm such a master ;-)

That, dear TVF friends is one of the reasons I couldn't miss speaking a little Thai. To have a good profound chitchat with the locals!

can you enlighten me and explain why it seems the vast majority do indeed hang out with dark skin hookers and or some non hookers?

a female accountant friend has asked me for the explanation

i guess there's just plenty of dark skinned girls being considered "ugly" by the local males, hence not catering/interesting to the local market? honestly i don't really care. i'm here [most of the time] since 1997 and i have stayed clear from ALL thai women*, black, pink, white, yellow. what i do know is that all my thai male friends would rather pay 1500thb for some white skin thai-yai, sipsongpanna girl [in a brothel] than getting laid for free with a DAM thai girl. i file this under: stupidity, brainwash, ignorance. they file it under: thainess, supreme taste.

* unless of course i meet one who's: die-hard atheist [no gods no master no supreme being], highly intelligent [iQ+EQ], filthy rich [self-sufficent], child-less and most important: jazz connoisseur with a vinyl collection of at least 4,500 lps. all CUMULATIVELY fulfilled !!!!! if you know one like this [black, pink, white, yellow], please forward...!

Edited February 2, 2015 by stickylies