The joy of Thai

[Gecko123]

It’s truly amazing all the things you can learn on TVF!

Just take for example the recent thread “The perfect reason for NOT learning Thai.” I carefully combed through all the posts on this thread, and jotted down all the reasons people gave for NOT learning Thai. It’s amazing what I found. Here’s the summary.

I learned that it’s impossible to communicate in Thai. The Thai language, a minor and insignificant language, is notoriously inefficient and crude, and destined to become extinct in the not so distant future. It is so vague and imprecise, Thais themselves cannot use it to communicate effectively. The Thai alphabet has way too many characters, the tonal system is inherently flawed, and there are so many different dialects and regional variations, trying to learn the language is a complete waste of time.

I also learned that it can be detrimental and disadvantageous to be able to speak Thai. I was advised that Thais don’t like it when foreigners speak Thai; they don’t trust foreigners who speak Thai, and they rarely appreciate it when foreigners try to learn their language. One person even reported that their spouse forbade them from learning Thai.

Many argued that there’s really no need to learn Thai. You can get by just fine with a combination of hand gestures, grunts, pointing, head nods, pidgin English, and using Google translate on you smart phone. I was told that Thais enjoy playing the game of charades with farangs. Besides, as one poster argued, since the only thing Thais are ever interested in is money, once you figure out the different currency denominations, you are good to go.

I was also fascinated to learn that not speaking Thai has many hidden advantages. For example, you don’t have to suffer the indignity of listening to Thais constantly insulting you, or endlessly discussing inane and trivial subjects such as the features of the latest i-phone, or how much chicken feet are selling for today at the fresh market. Apparently, because Thais are incapable of having an intellectually stimulating conversation, and any Thai who can’t speak English probably isn’t worth talking to anyway, by not speaking Thai, you can save enormous amounts of time which can be spent far more productively in front of the TV and engaging in more intellectually stimulating discourse on TVF. The language barrier also serves as a handy excuse for avoiding the in-laws, and enables you to avoid ever being harassed by the police since as soon as they realize you can’t speak Thai they will let you go no matter what you have done. And finally, lest I forget, not speaking Thai can also help ensure marital bliss since you can tune your wife out whenever she starts nagging you in Thai.

It’s almost unbelievable when you can see all these comments summarized, isn’t it? If you think I'm making this up, please feel free to go back and look at the thread. Sadly, I ain't lying.

But just to give others the opportunity to be heard, I’d like to invite everyone who has a positive story about the value of being able to speak Thai to share them here. I'd especially like to hear anecdotes about how your language abilities have enhanced your life, and your relationships with your family and friends here.

Those who want to keep banging the drum about why it’s NOT important to learn Thai, can comment on the “Perfect Reason for NOT learning Thai” thread.

Let’s keep this thread positive, OK?

[skilled]

cutest girls are available when u speak thai , otherwise they wont even look at u

[ukrules]

I suspect one reason to not bother learning Thai is that as a non Thai you will rarely be given the chance to become a passport holding Thai citizen (dual nationality) and the Thai language is only really useful in Thailand where you're normally only a temporary visitor, even if you stay for 10 or 20 years, it's still temporary.

You can live in Thailand for 30 years and still be just as much of a Thai as someone who stepped off the plane yesterday.

Obviously there are a few exceptions to the above and I know some people have become Thai citizens over the years (not many) but it's nothing like the number of Thai's who become full passport holding citizens of whichever foreign countries they choose to go and live in.

[MrWorldwide]

@ukrules, did you read the OP beyond the first couple of paragraphs ?

Those who want to keep banging the drum about why it’s NOT important to learn Thai, can comment on the “Perfect Reason for NOT learning Thai” thread.

Let’s keep this thread positive, OK?

[skilled]

forgot to say imho if u dont speak thai u will not be treated as a person , people will avoid you, you will always be seen as " dat farang"

[Costas2008]

Gecko, thank you for bringing this subject up........and so well written.

Thinking of myself and my command of various languages makes me feel depressed.

When I speak Thai........people laugh at me.

When I speak English......people are asking me....Can you please repeat that.....I didn't understand.

When I speak Greek.....people are telling me......what's the matter with you? Have you forgotten your own language?

When I speak French to the French.......they feel sorry for me and they switch to English.

So I learned my lesson and I keep my bloody mouth shut.........except on TVF......to the delight of thousands of members..........

[bannork]

I always loved life upcountry in Thailand, the space, the weather, the easy going nature of the people, the music- morlam, luktung, the food- somtam, fish, chicken, sticky rice, etc all appealed to me before I met my wife. I've always felt at home upcountry, people rely on themselves, their community so much, neighbours gossip, sure, that's a universal trait, but the atmosphere, pace and way of life is something perhaps only those who grow up in villages can really appreciate.

When I go to the local shop for whatever, the owner or his kids will ask me about our fields, how are the rubber trees, where did I buy my fertilizer, etc,, normal talk between folks in the same community, when relatives come we chat about this and that, family talk...,surely the same worldwide? .Emotionally you're involved, part of the family. Imagine not being able to talk to your wife's relatives? Not able to talk to shopkeepers?

The doubting Thomas's will say- 'all very well, but you're never really accepted, you're always an outsider' -.Sure, I'll never be in the inner circle at the weekly cockfighting ring, egging on with a clenched fist the favourite cock, but i wouldn't be doing that in the UK too, the macho 'lads' thing means nothing to me,

If you can't speak Thai in Thailand you are stuck in a bubble, but I appreciate to learn Thai requires motivation, and for me it was the country people that inspired me.

[crickets]

The benefits generally dont outway the time spent doing it. Thais that dont speak any english at all usualy arent worth any meaningful conversation in my experience anyway and my thai is reasonible.

[Crazy chef 1]

think it is a nice one..just a few beers too much though faded english skills...'ll give it a try tomorrow again..

[willyumiii]

You summed it up pretty well Gecko.

So far I see no post saying it is a good thing to learn the language.

That just adds more credence to your summary.

That's about as positive as it gets!

Well done!

[KhunBENQ]

I can only join @geckos thread opener.

I quickly closed the cited “The perfect reason for NOT learning Thai”.

Its so funny to read the arguments for not learning at least a very basic level of the languge of the country where you live.

I live upcountry. To get independent and comfortable when moving around I have no other choice than learning.

Otherwise I will fail in the long run.

I have a mate who lives in Jomtien.

He has absolutely no motivation to learn anything.

When I visit him the topic is a constant source of argument (I avoid it for that).

But he even gets annoyed and angry when I discuss some Thai language topic with another mate sitting together.

I remember his complaints that some 7/11 staff did not understand his question for "ketchup".

So funny

[cooked]

I did business in Switzerland. As I was on a language frontier I had to learn French and Swiss German, plus High German for correspondence. Now Swiss German probably is dying out but without it I should never have got where I got, both socially, culturally and in business. Now, 40 years later, I feel most frustrated that I can't memorise much Thai vocabulary (the tones are ok, I was some sort of musician) and can only stutter out a few words and phrases. But I wonder: how do people react to traffic signs if they can't read Thai? I can to some extent. Nobody got 91 petrol in his car when he wanted diesel? How about finding the correct bus destination? I think that even in Morchit they don't write destinations in English.

I read so much about Brits complaining about immigrants to the UK that don't want to learn English...

Many English speakers don't realise that they don't really understand the structure of their own language. Just try to explain the difference between an object and a subject, an adjective and an adverb, their eyes glaze over. How can you expect them to learn another language, if they have never been forced to think about why and how things are expressed?

Anyway, happily my wife, who after two years of schooling taught herself an English better than most teachers here are capable of, helps me out, as does her 8 year old granddaughter. I can't imagine what things here must be like for people with no understanding for, or willingness to, learn Thai must be like. I know that there are a lot of opinionated people on Thaivisa that know nothing about the 'real' Thailand at all.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

As far as I can see all the points in OP are valid.

I spend 15 years in Quebec and refused to learn the language for the very same reasons.

[cooked]

As far as I can see all the points in OP are valid.

I spend 15 years in Quebec and refused to learn the language for the very same reasons.

You missed the point, stop speed reading. What other languages did you refuse to learn? I refuse to try to learn classic Arab come to that, but that has a political and ethical dimension which I can fully justify, I have no desire to read the Koran. 15 years? You must have missed out on a lot of stuff.

[kannot]

The joy of Thai is you can spend 30 minutes telling someone something which could be done in 15 seconds in other languages and after which they will still not understand you.

[willyumiii]

I did business in Switzerland. As I was on a language frontier I had to learn French and Swiss German, plus High German for correspondence. Now Swiss German probably is dying out but without it I should never have got where I got, both socially, culturally and in business. Now, 40 years later, I feel most frustrated that I can't memorise much Thai vocabulary (the tones are ok, I was some sort of musician) and can only stutter out a few words and phrases. But I wonder: how do people react to traffic signs if they can't read Thai? I can to some extent. Nobody got 91 petrol in his car when he wanted diesel? How about finding the correct bus destination? I think that even in Morchit they don't write destinations in English.

I read so much about Brits complaining about immigrants to the UK that don't want to learn English...

Many English speakers don't realise that they don't really understand the structure of their own language. Just try to explain the difference between an object and a subject, an adjective and an adverb, their eyes glaze over. How can you expect them to learn another language, if they have never been forced to think about why and how things are expressed?

Anyway, happily my wife, who after two years of schooling taught herself an English better than most teachers here are capable of, helps me out, as does her 8 year old granddaughter. I can't imagine what things here must be like for people with no understanding for, or willingness to, learn Thai must be like. I know that there are a lot of opinionated people on Thaivisa that know nothing about the 'real' Thailand at all.

Cooked,

your last statement hear has made me think.

"I know that there are a lot of opinionated people on Thaivisa that know nothing about the 'real' Thailand at all"

I am thinking that " the real Thailand" is a different place for different people.

I am guilty of thinking of rural Isaan where I live as "the rel Thailand" and thinking of Bangkok as some other country.

Also of thinking of the tourist areas and expat communities in the south as yet another country.

Where and how you live determines what 'the real Thailand " is for you.

​An English speaking expat living in Patttaya for instance, where there are many English speaking expats, tourist and Thais who work in the service industry, probably has little need to learn to speak Thai in his "real Thailand."

Where I live, there are very few expats, tourist or English speaking Thais.

My "real Thailand is very different and requires very different life skills.

"The Real Thailand" may be a good topic for a new thread here on TV.

Just what and where is "the real Thailand" for you???

[sipi]

You're not supposed to read TVF and take notes. Only intelligent people do that.

[cooked]

Good question, worthy of another thread. Like you, I live in Isaan, where many Farangs (and Bangkok Thais) never go. The real Thailand for me is a place that hasn't been taken over by red-light areas, isn't drowning in traffic, people go to bed when it's dark.. please start another thread, I myself am about, very reluctantly, to drive to Bangkok.

[simon43]

I learnt Thai when I moved to BKK some 12 years ago for the primary reason that I would consider it rude not to learn the language of the country that I intended to reside in.

Another reason was because the builders of my first hotel spoke no English - I had to rapidly learn to speak 'builder's Thai' and to read and write Thai so that I could read the building plans and write instructions in Thai for the workmen, (which wasn't always a success, since many of them were illiterate)

I may not hold Thai citizenship, but many Thais in my local community assume that I am Thai (ie hold Thai citizenship), because I've made an effort to learn the language and to integrate into the community.

I have not found any disadvantages to speaking Thai, only many advantages.

Update: As other posters have mentioned, in many areas of Thailand, the locals speak little English and it is really necessary to speak some Thai.

I have found the same problem, even though I live in the so-called tourist mecca of Phuket. Many locals speak little English (a constant complaint from my hotel guests)

Edited February 2, 2015 by simon43

[kannot]

I learnt Thai when I moved to BKK some 12 years ago for the primary reason that I would consider it rude not to learn the language of the country that I intended to reside in.

Another reason was because the builders of my first hotel spoke no English - I had to rapidly learn to speak 'builder's Thai' and to read and write Thai so that I could read the building plans and write instructions in Thai for the workmen, (which wasn't always a success, since many of them were illiterate)

I may not hold Thai citizenship, but many Thais in my local community assume that I am Thai (ie hold Thai citizenship), because I've made an effort to learn the language and to integrate into the community.

I have not found any disadvantages to speaking Thai, only many advantages.

Update: As other posters have mentioned, in many areas of Thailand, the locals speak little English and it is really necessary to speak some Thai.

I have found the same problem, even though I live in the so-called tourist mecca of Phuket. Many locals speak little English (a constant complaint from my hotel guests)

So are there a lot of misunderstanding s in the Thai language?? My Wife is always "having problems" when she deals with other Thais through work even when to me its as clear as day what shes trying to tell them?

Vague?

[ramrod45]

I think the better question might be "do you really need to learn Thai?" I do believe the basics, especially numbers, is important, but I have friends that have motorcycled throughout Thailand and speak virtually no Thai. So it is not a necessity to learn Thai to live here, there are many of farangs that are examples. More appropriately, did you come to Thailand to become "Thai" or just come over for the normal obvious reasons: cost of living, girls, weather. If you are an expat and mostly hand with expats, then there probably is little incentive to spend several years trying to learn a language that when you visit a few hundred kilometers away, with a change of dialect, you probably won't understand people anyways (not entirely true, but even my teachers have mentioned they have trouble understanding other dialects). Not all, but the majority of expats that seem to learn better Thai live in areas where it is almost a necessity due to the lack of English speaking Thai people.

For me, I go to a store, ask for something in Thai, they reply in English, so why do I even bother with Thai, plus half the time I just get a blank stare. I asked for 450 baht to top up my phone a few days ago. Nueng and Si are pretty different words. I got 150 baht ticket. If I had just asked for 450 baht there probably wouldn't have been a mistake, lol.

So, I think there are always advantages to knowing the language of a country you where you live. The better your ability, the more conversations you will have. But if you do not interact with Thai people beyond shopping or going to the motorcycle shop, then really, you don't need to learn. It takes a lot of time, effort, money, (homework if you are so inclined), and speaking to learn Thai, and the majority of expats I know are over here to relax and enjoy life, not become a student (which unfortunately is like, dare we say it...work).

Just as some expats are fine living a village lifestyle, others prefer the city. When I first arrived in Thailand I was surprised at how many signs were in English. But I still have learned sufficient Thai to at least order a meal, know the cost, say Hello, so when I am out in the country I have a better chance of making my wishes known. Would I like to be more fluent? Yes. Will I put in the time and effort? No. I do not hang around with Thai people enough to need more Thai.

I think everyone knows there are more benefits to knowing the language (and in many cases you can feign ignorance and not let people know you speak Thai), but not speaking Thai does not seem to really make a significant difference to most of us living over here. Just my thoughts

[sdanielmcev]

I agree. People show their selfishness not learning Thai, or any other country, wanting others to stoop to their level of boorishness.

[SoiBiker]

I find learning Thai valuable because I take an interest in the environment around me, and want to understand it as much as I can.

[Loptr]

Personally I could not imagine moving to or living in a country where I could not converse in the native language... One of the first things I did when moving back to Thailand was to enroll in Thai language classes... Anyone professing otherwise is just lazy and doomed to being led around by their nose...

[stickylies]

Some nationalities are simply [intellectually] incapable learning another language because they take their own language (and themselves) too seriously. This includes a lot of Thai people too btw, not just farang. Others, like myself, assign no value whatsoever to their nationality nor mothertongue and have bothered to learn 5 foreign languages in the last 20 years. Keeps the brain lucid too!

The main motivation for me to speak and understand [enough] Thai is so that I'd be able to hear what people say about/around me.

Yesterday, getting a traditional Thai massage, two Thai women were talking about "farang" in general; how dirty (Sokkaprok!) "we" are, how "we" smell (Min!) and only come here for blackskinned (Dam!) hookers (mind you, the women gossipping were pretty dark themselves but covered in talk powder but too old and too fat to ever make a chance with just any desperate farang, haha), how "we" this and "we" that, all utter xenophobic stereotype cr*p. When they were finished I asked them in Thai, with poker face and the gayiest voice ever: Hello ladies, let's talk about Thai men now. How they spend their quality time in 700THB brothels, totally p*ssed, getting laid with STD infested girls. The art of being Grengjai, I'm such a master ;-)

That, dear TVF friends is one of the reasons I couldn't miss speaking a little Thai. To have a good profound chitchat with the locals!

[Gecko123]

I was involved in a property dispute about a decade ago here. While I cannot claim that if I had not been able to communicate in Thai I would have lost the case, I can say that language skills played a key role in determining the final favorable outcome.

For starters, if I had been unable to communicate in Thai, because of the stress of being involved in a legal dispute in a foreign country, I would likely have caved in under the pressure, and walked away. I also would have been cut off from much of the moral or emotional support I received from the local community. Because in the countryside few Thai attorneys speak English, I would have been forced to hire a Bangkok based attorney or a translator throughout the ordeal. This would have added substantially to the legal expenses. I did a lot of legal research down in Bangkok at Chulalongkorn and Thammast universities at their law libraries and consulting with law professors. This would not have been possible without an ability to speak, read and write ThaI. I also would not have been able to identify key witnesses and arrange for their testimony without being able to speak Thai. Finally, I was a far more compelling and credible witness in court because I could testify in Thai.

All told, if you add up the value of the disputed property, the value of having the right to use the property since the case was settled, as well as the additional expenses which I avoided by not having to hire a Bangkok based English speaking attorney, it would not be an exaggeration to say that being able to communicate in Thai may have saved me as much as $250,000 in this case!!!

I would say that is an excellent return on the small amount of money I invested in learning Thai.

Edited February 2, 2015 by Gecko123

[simon43]

So are there a lot of misunderstanding s in the Thai language

In my example, my builders didn't understand a word of English. Speaking/writing Thai was absolutely required to ensure that they didn't go and build in the wrong place etc.

[eldragon]

Extinct? What's gonna happen? Everyone's gonna start speaking English all of the sudden? Ha ha.

Anyway, I find only people that are trying to trick you (mostly bar girls in my experience) don't appreciate a fundamental knowledge of the language. Having some practical skills absolutely makes it easier to survive here. In fact, the day I calmed down and decided I could hang out in TH for a bit was the day I realized I could order food at just about any restaurant and ask people for directions. Also, having casual conversation skills does make for a better- although still trivial- existence here. People will accept you a bit more. They'll remember you and won't turn away when you start rattling off in English. Sometimes they'll give you better deals on stuff too (also bar girls, ha ha).

I still feel like there's a lack of connection between Thais and foreigners that goes beyond language and is mostly cultural. But now that I think about it, the single most annoying thing to me is the way many Thais act afraid of foreigners. And they'd probably feel less afraid if they knew I could speak Thai very well. So f' it. I change my mind. Yeah! Go learn Thai!!!

[starky]

Despite Gecko's polite request not to start banging on about why not to learn the language it seems some couldn't help themselves and as comprehension is at the heart of language is probably why they will never learn Thai. I like a few other posters am upcountry and find most people that live up this way are very proficient most to the point where the only communicate in Thai. I notice a lot of them, Germans, Swedes, Italians and so forth were already multi-lingual to begin with and even though Thai is tonal I am sure that helps. I must admit my Thai is atrocious but I keep trying. Now to the point of private tuition obviously I don't have an affinity for languages and it could be argued as an Aussie I barely speak English. I don't know how you would live somewhere and at least not have a conversational grasp of the language. Saying it is useless because only Thai's speak Thai reeks of BS. Point being generally I think you would find that mostly the people who live here and don't wish or feel they need to learn Thai are the proud few who live in places like Pattaya and Phuket and beyond drinking beer and chasing hookers really don't love Thailand all that much at all. Leo neung kuat yai, khrup khun khrup na ?

[dragonfly94]

If you can't speak Thai in Thailand you are stuck in a bubble, but I appreciate to learn Thai requires motivation, and for me it was the country people that inspired me.

Bannork, Honee and Sayan are both well dead, she was glorious and such a loss to Thai music IMO, he was a bit of a nutter, over rated. Saw OS 4s last night with his full ramwong set up, dancing stage in front of the stage with girls lined up on seats with numbers. I find nitnoy Thai Ok, they thought it was cute. Dance with any you like all night for 40 baht, 20 baht for a seat. Thank goodness that dreadful Carabao act has been canceled on the last night (wat fair) instead we have Rose Buntrern, well she changed her name but can never remember it.

Stuff learning Thai to any great level, most don't need it and certainly not me, mrs speaks perfect English, unlike some wifes where people have had to learn Thai, poor things! I did get inspired but gave up, it was misery not joy, unlike the music! I did learn quite a lot of Lao and Khamin though, am I allowed to say that?

Edited February 2, 2015 by dragonfly94