Thai National Parks ordered to charge foreigners tenfold

[cumgranosalum]

" Yes 10 times the Thai price would seem a little unfair, but can tourists afford it," - possibly the most facile comment on the thread.

how does this poster know what I can or cannot afford. Is that even the issue.

As I probably spend considerably more time than most in NPs I certainly will be reviewing where and how often I go. Matbe i will divert to Malaysia or Laos in future.

National parks need money - this wont achieve that.

NPs need visitors - visitors generate income to local businesses - eateries shops etc, accommodation.

i someone has to pay 400 baht every time they enter an NP - they will cut down the number of nights they spend in accommodation outside - so these people will lose out.

Tour companies who have lalready been told they can't have multiple entry tickets will do less tours - wildlife in thailand will be moved off the agenda and n turn will probably suffer too.

ity is hard to think of a single positive side to this ill-considered dictum.

please contact the DNP to complain

Edited February 5, 2015 by Tywais
Changed to standard font

[Mcffee]

I'd rather donate 4.000b to an elephant rescue camp then wasting 400b on those totally uninteresting nature parks without nature or buddhist temples without buddhism. For tourist traps are enough alternatives that are better and free.

Edited February 5, 2015 by Mcffee

[chang1]

several people have said, including myself, that there are discounts for locals in other countries, refer to post #521 for a closer definition of anti-discrimination laws, they are not what you think they are.

As for "They have not been abroad" are you now going to call the Australian government racist because a Thai needs to apply for a visa, prove they can support themselves, and prove they have reason to leave Australia before it will be granted, where as an Australian, just needs to jump on a plane and is granted a 30 day visa on arrival in Thailand ?

sorry dude but you are missing the point. the visa thing is another story and i don't agree with it (just fyi). pls stick to OP: farang paying 10x local price. can u, na khrap?

mate you have missed every point and I was directly responding to your post

the fact you don't agree with it only exacerbates your lack of understanding of real world issues and what discrimination is.

change they way you are thinking about the park issue to the "normal price" is 400 Baht and locals get a 90% discount

Now would it be fair to charge the locals full price(400 Baht)?

could they afford it ?

would they be excluded from the parks through pricing policy?

that is discrimination, charging different prices is not discrimination, there is no farang in Thailand being excluded from the parks by a $15 entry fee but the majority of Thais would be excluded if they had to pay 400 Baht

Indirect discrimination occurs when an unreasonable requirement, condition or practice is imposed that disadvantages a person or group because of a personal characteristic.

outboard - I thought you were joking when saying this is not discrimination but obviously you really think charging non foreigners, no matter how well off they are, 10 times is not discrimination. In the UK if I charged a foreigner anything more than what I charge a British person I would be prosecuted. It would not make any difference how much money they have - it is discrimination!!! Soon after my Thai wife came to the UK we went to a tourist attraction that costs about £10, I told her foreigners have to pay £20 (obviously joking) and she bluntly refused to go anywhere near it.

Not all Thais are poor and not all non Thais are wealthy.

"Now would it be fair to charge the locals full price(400 Baht)?" of course it is.

How many times the Thais price should we pay? Why not 100 times, 4000 Baht - is that fair? or would that be discrimination? As there is no way to set the multiplier fairly it should be made illegal.

"Indirect discrimination occurs when an unreasonable requirement, condition or practice is imposed that disadvantages a person or group because of a personal characteristic."

Obviously we have discounts for disabled and elderly as they are looked on as a disadvantaged MINORITY and given positive discrimination. In Thailand we are the minority and so we are being discriminated AGAINST.

Sure I can afford more than most Thais could pay but as it is discrimination It would have to be something special before I do that.

I feel better now!

Edited February 5, 2015 by chang1

[Mcffee]

A Thai wants to go to the park but can only afford 10% of the full charge (400 Baht) this is a protection, to not have it would be discrimination.

A Thai can afford a brand new 3 liter Toyota Vigo 4x4 so why they can't afford paying rip off price for a park visit? I know lots of expats who can't afford a Toyota Vigo.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

Not leaving a tip, makes the above poster feel better?/

[SABloke]

So on this basis. if a Thai visits London, for example, and the cost to enter Madam Tassauds is £10 a Brit, should a Thai be charged £100 entry fee ?

Dual pricing is illegal under English law,all foreigners and visitors,pay exactly the same prices,as an English person!

Dual pricing 'per se' may be illegal, but it exists in the UK by using loopholes such as distributing discount entry vouchers to the local communities, and offering return entry on subsequent visits at substantially discounted prices. All things that tourists will not be able to take advantage of...

No maybe at all! by an act of Parliament dual pricing is illegal, and your nonsense about..........it exists in the UK by using loopholes such as distributing discount entry vouchers to the local communities, and offering return entry on subsequent visits at substantially discounted prices. All things that tourists will not be able to take advantage of... blah blah!

On the contrary special offers etc,apply also to non residents of the UK ! otherwise it is discrimination, which is what dual pricing is all about! tough luck if the tourists are not there to pick up their "freebies"

i

You're the one talking nonsense.. These special offer coupons are posted through the letterboxes of local houses, so unless all tourists are renting a house in the vicinity of said attraction they will not be able to get these lower prices available to locals.

But foreigners who live in these houses DO! That's the point!!!!

Exactly, because they are residents - and if you LIVE in Thailand and can prove RESIDENCY then you are entitled to the discounted prices in Thailand too!!

You obviously missed the part where the government categorically stated that foreigners that are residents here are NOT entitled to the Thai price

[Kasset Tak]

I went with my friends as tourists to a national park as some of their friends working in BKK had a few day off last week. The park "had" a nice waterfall that they wanted to go to after we had been to a temple. I forgot my WP at work so full farang price 200 Baht compared with 40 for my friends.

The problem was this "had", as I have been there before and then it has been really nice... Now there were no water! So basically they charged us totally 600 Baht to see a waterfall with no water.... Even my friends where angry and argued with the park workers wanting a refund which they refused!

[Kasset Tak]

Sorry, but my logic is the one shared by the tourist authorities in countries which have dual pricing whereas yours is just based on a poor understanding of the given lexis.

And that logic then is also discriminatory and just another way to cover up racism as the Thais often do in writing Thai prices in the little used Thai numerals. They know it is wrong but do it anyway.

A discount is a deduction from the usual cost of something. If the usual cost of entering a park is 400 baht and the majority Thai visitors receive a 90% discount then take away the foreigners and they should go bankrupt. Which they wouldn't because the 40 baht is the usual cost.

And note the topic heading. "Thai National Parks ordered to charge foreigners tenfold" not "Thai National Parks ordered to give Thais 90% discount".

You are making ridiculous assumptions about this situation. You presume that because Thais pay 40 baht that this is what is takes to run the park, in reality there is not limit to how much could be spent and every baht helps. The National Parks are funded by the government, they will not go "bankrupt" they are national parks not businesses.

You go by a newspaper headline if you want, I am going by official statements by the tourist authority, everywhere dual pricing happens they give the same reasoning, it is not to penalize foreigners but to provide incentive to locals.

And you presume that a Thai gets a discount from the regular price. Perhaps if the national parks were run like a business, a Farang one not a Thai one, they might be worth 400 baht to visit.

Incentice for locals!!! We are not talking locals as in the same town, city, province we are talking the whole country vs the rest of the planet. That is discrimination, not penalization. But if you wish to see it your deluded way and believe that the Thai nation is receiving a discount so be it. But there are many more who see it as it really is, racist. And that many more includes many of the Thai people themselves who would like to see this skin tax abolished.

First, national parks are not a business and they are not run like businesses in farang countries. You fail to see the worth in contributing to the protection of the natural world and assume that it is you that should be getting something from it rather than the world, how sad.

Actually I do not believe it is a good idea to have dual pricing, however I can see where they are coming from and it isn't your silly little racist idea.

I see the worth in contributing to protecting nature but only as far as the same as everyone else. I.E. I do not expect or tolerate discrimination on any grounds. As far as racism is concerned it appears you are one of the very few here that don't see it while the majority do because dual pricing based on nationality is just that....racist.

Nationality has nothing to do with race. As for contributing the same as everyone else, have you been paying your taxes in Thailand for your whole life like the Thai's who receive the lower rate?

Many Thais don't pay tax, either their income is to low or they don't declare income as income!

According to my friends the income you declare and tax for is your monthly salary and if you get money in some other way then that is not income...

Example: teacher having a monthly salary of 25,000 and then have 1,000 a day for having tutorial classes. Declared income =25,000 / month because the 20,000 made from the tutorial classes is not a salary, it's just "extra" money...

[alantheembalmer]

The last time I visited The National Museum in Bangkok, the charge for foreigners was 200 baht, and 30 baht for Thais, and the tourists did not appear to be concerned by this price difference at all.

Just as an aside, I got in for the 30 baht fee, and to be quite frank, it was not even worth that.

[ttthailand]

My gf looks at all these extra farang charges as money coming out of her pocket. She gets angry and thinks its unfair. The price increase will not break the bank but it puts a bad taste in my mouth and even upsets some locals. It seems that every time you turn around someone has their hand in your pocket. Is that the way you welcome your guests ?

[Jay Sata]

Very little if anything worth seeing in a Thai museum.

Don't waste your money.

Plenty of decent free ones in the UK.

My favourite is the science museum.

[DM07]

The point is not if a tourist can AFFORD 10x the price that a Thai can.

Going by that logic, a tourist also can afford THB 350 instead of 35 for a Khao Pad Gai or THB 1.300 for THB 130 taxi- ride.

Why not take that further: a Thai pays 7 Baht for a bottle of drinking water at the 7eleven, so charge a tourist 70!

Get your heads out of you behinds for a second, will ya'?!

[pogal]

on a lighter note, when I went to The Ancient City Siam (In Samut Prakan), I took my parents who were on holiday and when I spoke Thai to get the tickets, the staff there asked me if I lived and worked in Thailand, I said yes and showed my Thai driver licence to prove it (they didn't ask) and so then she told me I would only have to pay the Thai price for myself, which I thought was quite reasonable of them, and also pro-active of them. I wasn't even going to bother trying to get in for Thai price

[White Christmas13]

Any body on here knows the entrance fees at Erawan National park in Kanchanaburi ?

[kieran2698]

Many Thais don't pay tax, either their income is to low or they don't declare income as income!

According to my friends the income you declare and tax for is your monthly salary and if you get money in some other way then that is not income...

Example: teacher having a monthly salary of 25,000 and then have 1,000 a day for having tutorial classes. Declared income =25,000 / month because the 20,000 made from the tutorial classes is not a salary, it's just "extra" money...

Your friends are wrong. This is how Thai law defines Assessable Income:

Income chargeable to the PIT is called “assessable income”. The term covers income both in cash and in kind. Therefore, any benefits provided by an employer or other persons, such as a rent-free house or the amount of tax paid by the employer on behalf of the employee, is also treated as assessable income of the employee for the purpose of PIT. Assessable income is divided into 8 categories as follows :

1. income from personal services rendered to employers;
2. income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;
3. income from goodwill, copyright, franchise, other rights, annuity or income in the nature of yearly payments derived from a will or any other juristic Act or judgment of the Court;
4. income in the nature of dividends, interest on deposits with banks in Thailand, shares of profits or other benefits from a juristic company, juristic partnership, or mutual fund, payments received as a result of the reduction of capital, a bonus, an increased capital holdings, gains from amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of juristic companies or partnerships, and gains from transferring of shares or partnership holdings;
5. income from letting of property and from breaches of contracts, installment sales or hire-purchase contracts;
6. income from liberal professions;
7. income from construction and other contracts of work;
8. income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified earlier.

[harrry]

I understand there is some sort of exemption for tutorial schools. It would be income by the definition but there is another regulation that excludes it.

[steve187]

Any body on here knows the entrance fees at Erawan National park in Kanchanaburi ?

100 baht with Thai drivers licence, 300 baht without, Thai national 100 baht, i was there early this week got a ferry across a stretch of water

Edited February 6, 2015 by steve187

[kieran2698]

I have visited parks in the US, yellow stone and similar and they would be worth many times more than anything here. I mean really...there is hardly anything special or exciting in any of the ones I have seen in Thailand. If you dis agree tell me where because I really want to know. Perhaps some city folk never really seen much and a few trees and a little water fall excites them... To each their own... Live and let live

Having said all that ... I have traveled recently to Chiang Rai and drove all over the the mountain roads and visited the hill tribes but I didn't pay anything but the gas for my car. There were a few beautiful mountain view worth a revisit

And you are proud that on visiting some of the poorest people in Thailand the only economy you increased was that of the petrochemical companies?

[steve187]

The point is not if a tourist can AFFORD 10x the price that a Thai can.

Going by that logic, a tourist also can afford THB 350 instead of 35 for a Khao Pad Gai or THB 1.300 for THB 130 taxi- ride.

Why not take that further: a Thai pays 7 Baht for a bottle of drinking water at the 7eleven, so charge a tourist 70!

Get your heads out of you behinds for a second, will ya'?!

I think the increased price is a fair price for the visit, its only fair that Thai's get a reduced price, its their country and heritage the money goes to the upkeep, the increased money for food as you suggest would only make the trader more money, not the national park,

so my head is out my asre

[AyG]

I think the increased price is a fair price for the visit, its only fair that Thai's get a reduced price, its their country and heritage the money goes to the upkeep

That's back to front. It's their country and their heritage, so they should be paying for its upkeep - not foreigners.

[DM07]

The point is not if a tourist can AFFORD 10x the price that a Thai can.

Going by that logic, a tourist also can afford THB 350 instead of 35 for a Khao Pad Gai or THB 1.300 for THB 130 taxi- ride.

Why not take that further: a Thai pays 7 Baht for a bottle of drinking water at the 7eleven, so charge a tourist 70!

Get your heads out of you behinds for a second, will ya'?!

I think the increased price is a fair price for the visit, its only fair that Thai's get a reduced price, its their country and heritage the money goes to the upkeep, the increased money for food as you suggest would only make the trader more money, not the national park,

so my head is out my asre

Siam Ocean World- private company. Thais and farang pat different!

I have just been to Krabi, visited to "National Parks"...what "upkeep" are you talking about?

The 'upkeep" of the stalls, selling water and food for a ridiculous prices? (which ...in all fairness...happens everywhere)

Because it was sure not the "upkeep" of the park!

We were there early and there was trash all over the goddamn place...

[Kasset Tak]

Many Thais don't pay tax, either their income is to low or they don't declare income as income!

According to my friends the income you declare and tax for is your monthly salary and if you get money in some other way then that is not income...

Example: teacher having a monthly salary of 25,000 and then have 1,000 a day for having tutorial classes. Declared income =25,000 / month because the 20,000 made from the tutorial classes is not a salary, it's just "extra" money...

Your friends are wrong. This is how Thai law defines Assessable Income:

Income chargeable to the PIT is called assessable income. The term covers income both in cash and in kind. Therefore, any benefits provided by an employer or other persons, such as a rent-free house or the amount of tax paid by the employer on behalf of the employee, is also treated as assessable income of the employee for the purpose of PIT. Assessable income is divided into 8 categories as follows :

• income from personal services rendered to employers;
• income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;
• income from goodwill, copyright, franchise, other rights, annuity or income in the nature of yearly payments derived from a will or any other juristic Act or judgment of the Court;
• income in the nature of dividends, interest on deposits with banks in Thailand, shares of profits or other benefits from a juristic company, juristic partnership, or mutual fund, payments received as a result of the reduction of capital, a bonus, an increased capital holdings, gains from amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of juristic companies or partnerships, and gains from transferring of shares or partnership holdings;
• income from letting of property and from breaches of contracts, installment sales or hire-purchase contracts;
• income from liberal professions;
• income from construction and other contracts of work;
• income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified earlier.

You are right, that's why I wrote "don't declare income as income"! And most Thais I know DON'T declare any of their extra income only their base income (monthly salary), that's all the way from the workers and farmers via teachers and professors to the top with politicians!

[khunpa]

Always a great feeling, when your wife and kid pays much less than yourself. You just feel so much at home and not like being treated different because of you skin-color.

I think its a fantastic idea!

[kieran2698]

Many Thais don't pay tax, either their income is to low or they don't declare income as income!

According to my friends the income you declare and tax for is your monthly salary and if you get money in some other way then that is not income...

Example: teacher having a monthly salary of 25,000 and then have 1,000 a day for having tutorial classes. Declared income =25,000 / month because the 20,000 made from the tutorial classes is not a salary, it's just "extra" money...

Your friends are wrong. This is how Thai law defines Assessable Income:

Income chargeable to the PIT is called assessable income. The term covers income both in cash and in kind. Therefore, any benefits provided by an employer or other persons, such as a rent-free house or the amount of tax paid by the employer on behalf of the employee, is also treated as assessable income of the employee for the purpose of PIT. Assessable income is divided into 8 categories as follows :

• income from personal services rendered to employers;
• income by virtue of jobs, positions or services rendered;
• income from goodwill, copyright, franchise, other rights, annuity or income in the nature of yearly payments derived from a will or any other juristic Act or judgment of the Court;
• income in the nature of dividends, interest on deposits with banks in Thailand, shares of profits or other benefits from a juristic company, juristic partnership, or mutual fund, payments received as a result of the reduction of capital, a bonus, an increased capital holdings, gains from amalgamation, acquisition or dissolution of juristic companies or partnerships, and gains from transferring of shares or partnership holdings;
• income from letting of property and from breaches of contracts, installment sales or hire-purchase contracts;
• income from liberal professions;
• income from construction and other contracts of work;
• income from business, commerce, agriculture, industry, transport or any other activity not specified earlier.

You are right, that's why I wrote "don't declare income as income"! And most Thais I know DON'T declare any of their extra income only their base income (monthly salary), that's all the way from the workers and farmers via teachers and professors to the top with politicians!

Yes, unfortunately it is true and a huge amount of money goes untaxed in Thailand and many services are stretched to the limit. But what is the point? That because of Thai tax evaders the National Park should not have dual pricing?

[kieran2698]

The point is not if a tourist can AFFORD 10x the price that a Thai can.

Going by that logic, a tourist also can afford THB 350 instead of 35 for a Khao Pad Gai or THB 1.300 for THB 130 taxi- ride.

Why not take that further: a Thai pays 7 Baht for a bottle of drinking water at the 7eleven, so charge a tourist 70!

Get your heads out of you behinds for a second, will ya'?!

You confusing the financing of a governmental department which has very little chance to make any money with privately owned businesses which have every chance to make a profit , so actually you are not going by that logic at all as they are completely different cases. Dual pricing of a privately owned attraction would offend me and would fit with the logic you imagined.

[kieran2698]

I think the increased price is a fair price for the visit, its only fair that Thai's get a reduced price, its their country and heritage the money goes to the upkeep

That's back to front. It's their country and their heritage, so they should be paying for its upkeep - not foreigners.

They are paying, that is the point. Thai's already pay 8 billion baht a year in taxes for the national parks, is it not fair that they receive a discount?

[Bluespunk]

I think the increased price is a fair price for the visit, its only fair that Thai's get a reduced price, its their country and heritage the money goes to the upkeep

That's back to front. It's their country and their heritage, so they should be paying for its upkeep - not foreigners.

They are paying, that is the point. Thai's already pay 8 billion baht a year in taxes for the national parks, is it not fair that they receive a discount?

I live and work here and pay taxes. Why should I not receive a discount?

[kieran2698]

I understand there is some sort of exemption for tutorial schools. It would be income by the definition but there is another regulation that excludes it.

It was not an exemption but a loophole which made it easy to avoid paying tax but, that has now been closed. This issue was addressed in the Tax Reform of late last year, not sure if the policy has come into effect but if not then it looks set to do so. Shocking that 2,300 schools all capable of turning a high profit from a minimal setup cost were getting away without paying any tax, and even worse, many teachers were having their wages reduced as if their tax was being paid even though it was not!

[Bluespunk]

F..k the parks.

But that learns others to do the same.

... to charge (10 times) more.

This double price mentality will spread and scatter in the normal live.

To pay for water, food, transportation, etc a special foreigners white - black, long nose price.

That is discriminatory.

would it be discriminatory to charge for water, food, transportation such a price that only rich foreigners could pay effectively excluding locals from being able to eat, drink or go anywhere ?

Discrimination means excluding a person or group from something through actions.

No farang is being excluded here.

They are not being charged such an amount that they could not afford it.

the simple measure of discrimination is -: Is anyone being disadvantaged ?

If you are in such a pathetic way that as a foreigner you cant afford $15 entry fee to a national park, then you need to head home

That is NOT discrimination

Charging a higher price because of nationality is discrimination.

It doesn't matter if you can afford it or not.

To discriminate on the basis of nationality is wrong.

Edited February 6, 2015 by Bluespunk

[kieran2698]

I think the increased price is a fair price for the visit, its only fair that Thai's get a reduced price, its their country and heritage the money goes to the upkeep

That's back to front. It's their country and their heritage, so they should be paying for its upkeep - not foreigners.

They are paying, that is the point. Thai's already pay 8 billion baht a year in taxes for the national parks, is it not fair that they receive a discount?

I live and work here and pay taxes. Why should I not receive a discount?

So do I and I have always been given the discount, but it's unfortunately not until you have gained residency that you will become entitled. I agree with you, if there is to be a dual pricing system then it would be fair to give the discount to foreigners working here, and perhaps pensioners living here as well.