Thai politics: A case of double standards, both Thai and American

[webfact]

BURNING ISSUE
A case of double standards, both Thai and American
PRAVIT ROJANAPHRUK

BANGKOK: -- THE VISIT to Thailand last week by the most senior US envoy to arrive since the coup has succeeded in stirring up displeasure, irritation and even hatred of America among a number of self-proclaimed nationalists who support the military regime of General Prayut Chan-o-cha.

They argued that the way Daniel Russel - the US Deputy Secretary of State for East Asia and Pacific Affairs - criticised martial law and questioned the legitimacy of the junta-installed National Legislative Assembly (NLA)'s impeachment of former PM Yinluck Shinawatra was disrespectful and tantamount to political interference in domestic affairs.

Terms like "ugly American", "imperialists", "hypocrite", "insincere" have been deployed by some of these people to criticise Russel and the US. Columnists praised junta-appointed Deputy Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai for his firm retaliation in summoning American charge d'affaires W Patrick Murphy to hear that Russel's criticism had inflicted a deep wound to the hearts of many Thais.

Russel, who neglected to pay a courtesy call to Prayut, due to his position as an undemocratic leader, was blunt and the envoy could have been more tactful.

Nevertheless, it also must be acknowledged that neither Don nor Prayut could legitimately speak on behalf of all Thais as their path to power was through a military coup.

So, neither Don nor Prayut can speak in my name, and I believe there are millions of Thais out there who think the same but who are not able or willing to protest due to fear because of the open-ended imposition of martial law, which the junta and Don sought to defend.

People can go on calling America imperialist and ugly, and in some ways they should and they are right. This is a wonderful opportunity for young Thais who were not old enough or not even around during the Cold War - when America was active in the Indochina war and particularly Vietnam and played a part in devastating much of the region while lording around and supporting Thai dictators like Field Marshal Sarit Thanarat, another coup-maker - to recognise that America can be hypocritical when it suits their interests.

The US should recognise that by being selective in its harshness against dictatorship, such as in its attitude to Thailand at the moment, but soft on those in other countries due to huge vested interests, say in Egypt, Kuwait, China and Saudi Arabia (where women are not even permitted to drive), then America's message of democracy will ring increasingly more hollow.

On the other hand, it must also be pointed out to Thais who support the military regime and martial law that no amount of US hypocrisy and imperialist arrogance could ever diminish the fact that Thailand's military regime under Prayut has a legitimacy crisis, or no legitimacy at all, due to the fact that Prayut came to power through the use of force and rules through the threat of force under martial law.

In a way I pity people like Deputy Foreign Minister Don, who have to defend the indefensible. The NLA is junta-installed and thus anything done by the assembly is bound to be questionable.

While many Thais rightly question America's uneven behaviour, they ought to apply the same scrutiny and doubt to the Thai junta as well.

A country which applies double standards is a nation of hypocrites - be it the United States or Thailand.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/A-case-of-double-standards-both-Thai-and-American-30253319.html


-- The Nation 2015-02-04

[ChrisY1]

Why don't the pathetic media just drop this garbage........and get over it also?

[chooka]

Who is stirring up the anti American hatred? I am sure it's not the Americans who keep stoking the fire. This is so bloody childish. A spoilt brat didn't get his way so he is sitting in the corner arms crossed huffing, puffing and crying like a newborn. Every now and again it will poke it's tongue out and throw toys. Come on let's grow up these people are suppose to be world leaders and statesmen. Mr Russell had an opinion nothing more and he is out of reach of the attitude adjustment department and it hurts so bad but move on.

[chainarong]

It would be more interesting if Thailand wasn't so self centred and asked the US allies what they all thought of the Coup , I am sure that what Mr Russell had to say was also run past the US allies just to make sure everyone was on the same page, so when you get a combination of countries , such as UK, CA, AU,NZ and possibly Germany Plus others the arguments for just America start to look like Thailand isn't as worldly as it thinks it is , all those countries mentioned have the same opinions as USA, just how much of the world can Thailand Hate and just how much of the world hates Thailand, TATs tourist numbers will determine.

[yellowboat]

A junta which is very sensitive and craves attention. Had a girl friend like that once. It was draining.

[Mr Somtam]

" Columnists praised junta-appointed Deputy Foreign Minister Don Pramudwinai for his firm retaliation in summoning American charge d'affaires W Patrick Murphy to hear that Russel's criticism had inflicted a deep wound to the hearts of many Thais."

And nobody has a wound in his heart when criminals rob the country, traffic humans, employ slave labour, destroy democracy, keep the feudal lords in power, brainwash the youths, convict scapegoats, keep hi-so murderers out of jail... And the list goes on. Keyword I think is brainwashing/education. They just don't know better... Sad...

[Songhua]

Sheesh. They're not still carrying on about it?

[NongKhaiKid]

Sheesh. They're not still carrying on about it?

One of the oldest tricks in the political book to divert attention away from all the things going wrong.

[chooka]

Sheesh. They're not still carrying on about it?

Yep, still won't come out of thier room and I can hear things being thrown around.

[chooka]

It would be more interesting if Thailand wasn't so self centred and asked the US allies what they all thought of the Coup , I am sure that what Mr Russell had to say was also run past the US allies just to make sure everyone was on the same page, so when you get a combination of countries , such as UK, CA, AU,NZ and possibly Germany Plus others the arguments for just America start to look like Thailand isn't as worldly as it thinks it is , all those countries mentioned have the same opinions as USA, just how much of the world can Thailand Hate and just how much of the world hates Thailand, TATs tourist numbers will determine.

Australia doesn't have to say anything. Members of the military Junta still aren't allowed in Australia.

[Manbing]

Its clear the USA would not support this military lead regime.

After all there is no evidence of the USA ever using the military to impose their standards on a democratically lead nation state.

Except for Vietnam, Chile, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc.

Sure the USA would support the Shins, because they have a recognizable dollar amount they can be assured of accepting to support any USA policy, however illegal. (eg. Black sights in Udon Thanee)

Unless the regime is corrupt, the USA can't work with them. That's the real sticking point.

Democracy is a dear concept to the USA, which is why the party that has the most money in an election, always wins the presidency. This isn't policy, its just a fact that has occurred in every election ever in the USA.

The standard that the USA held Iraq to, stopping corruption and human rights abuses, should apply here. So its more than a little strange that the USA don't support this government, which is going a long way to re-righting the problems that have become endemic in Thailand.

Buying votes at 1000bht a day is not democracy, nor is bombing cities and arming a militia if you don't get your way. Its called election fraud and terrorism in every other country.

The USA has a very strange ethos, maybe a tighter alliance with china is a better idea.

Edited February 4, 2015 by Manbing

[HeijoshinCool]

Terms like "ugly American", "imperialists", "hypocrite", "insincere" have been deployed ….

And they eat bread, too!

Then the general indulged himself in some soaps. Or maybe it was a soapie. Can't remember.

[seajae]

Thai press is asking for more freedom to write what they want but then they keep trying to stir the pot by publishing crap like this. Everyone is aware of what happened and have their own opinions, by continually trying to make more and more out of it the press is showing that they are not ready for the freedoms they are demanding, they are showing how vindictive and childish they can act instead of showing the thais people that they are able to publish factual news and not simply opininated garbage pieces aimed at solely stirring up trouble, pathetic.

[Balance]

Its clear the USA would not support this military lead regime.

After all there is no evidence of the USA ever using the military to impose their standards on a democratically lead nation state.

Except for Vietnam, Chile, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc.

Sure the USA would support the Shins, because they have a recognizable dollar amount they can be assured of accepting to support any USA policy, however illegal. (eg. Black sights in Udon Thanee)

Unless the regime is corrupt, the USA can't work with them. That's the real sticking point.

Democracy is a dear concept to the USA, which is why the party that has the most money in an election, always wins the presidency. This isn't policy, its just a fact that has occurred in every election ever in the USA.

The standard that the USA held Iraq to, stopping corruption and human rights abuses, should apply here. So its more than a little strange that the USA don't support this government, which is going a long way to re-righting the problems that have become endemic in Thailand.

Buying votes at 1000bht a day is not democracy, nor is bombing cities and arming a militia if you don't get your way. Its called election fraud and terrorism in every other country.

The USA has a very strange ethos, maybe a tighter alliance with china is a better idea.

"Democracy is a dear concept to the USA, which is why the party that has the most money in an election, always wins the presidency. This isn't policy, its just a fact that has occurred in every election ever in the USA".

Before you make statements, you need to make sure of your facts. Your statement is ludicrous; go do your homework.

[Manbing]

Its clear the USA would not support this military lead regime.

After all there is no evidence of the USA ever using the military to impose their standards on a democratically lead nation state.

Except for Vietnam, Chile, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc.

Sure the USA would support the Shins, because they have a recognizable dollar amount they can be assured of accepting to support any USA policy, however illegal. (eg. Black sights in Udon Thanee)

Unless the regime is corrupt, the USA can't work with them. That's the real sticking point.

Democracy is a dear concept to the USA, which is why the party that has the most money in an election, always wins the presidency. This isn't policy, its just a fact that has occurred in every election ever in the USA.

The standard that the USA held Iraq to, stopping corruption and human rights abuses, should apply here. So its more than a little strange that the USA don't support this government, which is going a long way to re-righting the problems that have become endemic in Thailand.

Buying votes at 1000bht a day is not democracy, nor is bombing cities and arming a militia if you don't get your way. Its called election fraud and terrorism in every other country.

The USA has a very strange ethos, maybe a tighter alliance with china is a better idea.

"Democracy is a dear concept to the USA, which is why the party that has the most money in an election, always wins the presidency. This isn't policy, its just a fact that has occurred in every election ever in the USA".

Before you make statements, you need to make sure of your facts. Your statement is ludicrous; go do your homework.

Do your homework. Show your working out.

A simple disagreement is not a valid argument.

when has a party with less funding won an election in the USA?

Use names dates and numbers to illustrate your answer. Perhaps use the odd verifiable reference too.

[thesetat2013]

Who is stirring up the anti American hatred? I am sure it's not the Americans who keep stoking the fire. This is so bloody childish. A spoilt brat didn't get his way so he is sitting in the corner arms crossed huffing, puffing and crying like a newborn. Every now and again it will poke it's tongue out and throw toys. Come on let's grow up these people are suppose to be world leaders and statesmen. Mr Russell had an opinion nothing more and he is out of reach of the attitude adjustment department and it hurts so bad but move on.

It is not the average Thai person either that keeps stirring this pot. The leaders and ex leaders are the ones making a big thing of it. Most average thai has no idea about any of this and could care less. Only that it is being egged on in the news. This article was a waste of time reading.

[toybits]

The last three paragraphs says it all. Pretty fair and balanced in the end. Well done.

[Strangebrew]

Is it me or did my brain just melt down? I think Vietnam requested help from the US , Afghanistan was taken over by the Thally waggers,who were destroying the countries rich history and trying to instill there values on the people thru force. A few others you mentioned were dictatorships Where common people who had different view vanished with out a trace. Don't get me wrong America is not perfect or without fault, But in 250 years verses thousands of years of history they seem to have done better than most wouldn't you say? People bad mouth the US but when the chips are down and there back is to the wall who do they call? Thailand, China, Korea ? Hell no it is The US cause though were not perfect were at least willing to send our people to fight for your freedom can you say the same? You think China would do that for you or ISIS? Those who fail to understand history are doomed to repeat it sound familiar?

[ithankGodagain]

Thais should be careful about any country that's claim to support them..

[jaywalker]

Its clear the USA would not support this military lead regime.

After all there is no evidence of the USA ever using the military to impose their standards on a democratically lead nation state.

Except for Vietnam, Chile, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Iraq, Afghanistan etc etc.

Sure the USA would support the Shins, because they have a recognizable dollar amount they can be assured of accepting to support any USA policy, however illegal. (eg. Black sights in Udon Thanee)

Unless the regime is corrupt, the USA can't work with them. That's the real sticking point.

Democracy is a dear concept to the USA, which is why the party that has the most money in an election, always wins the presidency. This isn't policy, its just a fact that has occurred in every election ever in the USA.

The standard that the USA held Iraq to, stopping corruption and human rights abuses, should apply here. So its more than a little strange that the USA don't support this government, which is going a long way to re-righting the problems that have become endemic in Thailand.

Buying votes at 1000bht a day is not democracy, nor is bombing cities and arming a militia if you don't get your way. Its called election fraud and terrorism in every other country.

The USA has a very strange ethos, maybe a tighter alliance with china is a better idea.

The USA is 10 times as corrupt as Thailand = That's why they want to charge us 10 times as much to visit some overcrowded national park!

[Manbing]

Is it me or did my brain just melt down? I think Vietnam requested help from the US , Afghanistan was taken over by the Thally waggers,who were destroying the countries rich history and trying to instill there values on the people thru force. A few others you mentioned were dictatorships Where common people who had different view vanished with out a trace. Don't get me wrong America is not perfect or without fault, But in 250 years verses thousands of years of history they seem to have done better than most wouldn't you say? People bad mouth the US but when the chips are down and there back is to the wall who do they call? Thailand, China, Korea ? Hell no it is The US cause though were not perfect were at least willing to send our people to fight for your freedom can you say the same? You think China would do that for you or ISIS? Those who fail to understand history are doomed to repeat it sound familiar?

You should learn about a non USA centric history. Seriously don't believe what you hear on the Fox channel. Why do you think so many countries hate and fear the USA.

But that's really beside the point, no one is inviting the USA into Thailand now. No one has invited them to comment on the current regime. Their involvement is unwelcome here. Why are they intervening, It's not as if they are idealogically opposed to military regimes seizing control of a country to restore order. It was OK for them to go into Iraq.

[rijb]

Is it me or did my brain just melt down? I think Vietnam requested help from the US , Afghanistan was taken over by the Thally waggers,who were destroying the countries rich history and trying to instill there values on the people thru force. A few others you mentioned were dictatorships Where common people who had different view vanished with out a trace. Don't get me wrong America is not perfect or without fault, But in 250 years verses thousands of years of history they seem to have done better than most wouldn't you say? People bad mouth the US but when the chips are down and there back is to the wall who do they call? Thailand, China, Korea ? Hell no it is The US cause though were not perfect were at least willing to send our people to fight for your freedom can you say the same? You think China would do that for you or ISIS? Those who fail to understand history are doomed to repeat it sound familiar?

You should learn about a non USA centric history. Seriously don't believe what you hear on the Fox channel. Why do you think so many countries hate and fear the USA.

But that's really beside the point, no one is inviting the USA into Thailand now. No one has invited them to comment on the current regime. Their involvement is unwelcome here. Why are they intervening, It's not as if they are idealogically opposed to military regimes seizing control of a country to restore order. It was OK for them to go into Iraq.

You're speaking for everyone in Thailand? Are you Thai? Or just another 3rd-class tourist?

[wabothai]

The US on a daily basis is being attacked for what it does or says.

it does not act like a crybaby.

All has to do with feelings of superiority both ways.

An attiitude no one wins with. Now I assume Thailand has more to lose than the US here.

[2fishin2]

Is it me or did my brain just melt down? I think Vietnam requested help from the US , Afghanistan was taken over by the Thally waggers,who were destroying the countries rich history and trying to instill there values on the people thru force. A few others you mentioned were dictatorships Where common people who had different view vanished with out a trace. Don't get me wrong America is not perfect or without fault, But in 250 years verses thousands of years of history they seem to have done better than most wouldn't you say? People bad mouth the US but when the chips are down and there back is to the wall who do they call? Thailand, China, Korea ? Hell no it is The US cause though were not perfect were at least willing to send our people to fight for your freedom can you say the same? You think China would do that for you or ISIS? Those who fail to understand history are doomed to repeat it sound familiar?

You should learn about a non USA centric history. Seriously don't believe what you hear on the Fox channel. Why do you think so many countries hate and fear the USA.

But that's really beside the point, no one is inviting the USA into Thailand now. No one has invited them to comment on the current regime. Their involvement is unwelcome here. Why are they intervening, It's not as if they are idealogically opposed to military regimes seizing control of a country to restore order. It was OK for them to go into Iraq.

You're speaking for everyone in Thailand? Are you Thai? Or just another 3rd-class tourist?

Thats straight up thai talking. See how the Iraq argument has popped up? They dont argue points they post stupid meme pics, call people who dont agree trashy names, threaten to kill them, or change the subject. Or like you said a third class citizen. I see them all the time of facebook posts when a white guy has something to say.

[Manbing]

Is it me or did my brain just melt down? I think Vietnam requested help from the US , Afghanistan was taken over by the Thally waggers,who were destroying the countries rich history and trying to instill there values on the people thru force. A few others you mentioned were dictatorships Where common people who had different view vanished with out a trace. Don't get me wrong America is not perfect or without fault, But in 250 years verses thousands of years of history they seem to have done better than most wouldn't you say? People bad mouth the US but when the chips are down and there back is to the wall who do they call? Thailand, China, Korea ? Hell no it is The US cause though were not perfect were at least willing to send our people to fight for your freedom can you say the same? You think China would do that for you or ISIS? Those who fail to understand history are doomed to repeat it sound familiar?

You should learn about a non USA centric history. Seriously don't believe what you hear on the Fox channel. Why do you think so many countries hate and fear the USA.

But that's really beside the point, no one is inviting the USA into Thailand now. No one has invited them to comment on the current regime. Their involvement is unwelcome here. Why are they intervening, It's not as if they are idealogically opposed to military regimes seizing control of a country to restore order. It was OK for them to go into Iraq.

You're speaking for everyone in Thailand? Are you Thai? Or just another 3rd-class tourist?

Did you read the news story? It's the official position of the ruling government. What I say is of very little consequence. As is your opinion.

Maybe your reading skills are 3rd rate?

[Don Aleman]

This would be a fair analysis IF both sides were equal but they are not as :

The US gives over 100 million US dollars in foreign aid to Thailand every year

The US has ships, loaded with military and billions of baht ,use Thailand fro R & R and while in port

do local good deeds like painting orphanages, tending some medical needs, etc.

The US is a guaranteed PROTECTOR of Thailand

The US is, always, first on the scene of any catastrophe - the 2004 Tsunami for example

The US uses Thailand as host country for Cobra Gold exercises supplying Thai military training &

bring in more billions of Baht

The US has long ago, forgiven Thailand for declaring war on the US,( WW 2 )

The language used, arguably, may have been better but the message, sent by several other nations as well,

should not ignored nor treated as a first time notice. All the above is voluntarily given and can be swiftly withdrawn if any more US representatives are " shown the door " by Thailand. Kicking tigers never, no never, pays off !

[binjalin]

This would be a fair analysis IF both sides were equal but they are not as :

The US gives over 100 million US dollars in foreign aid to Thailand every year

The US has ships, loaded with military and billions of baht ,use Thailand fro R & R and while in port

do local good deeds like painting orphanages, tending some medical needs, etc.

The US is a guaranteed PROTECTOR of Thailand

The US is, always, first on the scene of any catastrophe - the 2004 Tsunami for example

The US uses Thailand as host country for Cobra Gold exercises supplying Thai military training &

bring in more billions of Baht

The US has long ago, forgiven Thailand for declaring war on the US,( WW 2 )

The language used, arguably, may have been better but the message, sent by several other nations as well,

should not ignored nor treated as a first time notice. All the above is voluntarily given and can be swiftly withdrawn if any more US representatives are " shown the door " by Thailand. Kicking tigers never, no never, pays off !

quite... I'm no big fan of the USA but Thailand has FAR more to learn from the US than the US from Thailand (think the Arts, Medicine, Science etc.) and as this poster says the giving is all ONE WAY (apart from the R&R)

Whoops EDIT maybe not 'medicine'? I mean Thailand invented the cure for Ebola right???

Edited February 4, 2015 by binjalin

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

A junta which is very sensitive and craves attention. Had a girl friend like that once. It was draining.

How did your bank account manage

[chainarong]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

This would be a fair analysis IF both sides were equal but they are not as :

The US gives over 100 million US dollars in foreign aid to Thailand every year

The US has ships, loaded with military and billions of baht ,use Thailand fro R & R and while in port

do local good deeds like painting orphanages, tending some medical needs, etc.

The US is a guaranteed PROTECTOR of Thailand

The US is, always, first on the scene of any catastrophe - the 2004 Tsunami for example

The US uses Thailand as host country for Cobra Gold exercises supplying Thai military training &

bring in more billions of Baht

The US has long ago, forgiven Thailand for declaring war on the US,( WW 2 )

The language used, arguably, may have been better but the message, sent by several other nations as well,

should not ignored nor treated as a first time notice. All the above is voluntarily given and can be swiftly withdrawn if any more US representatives are " shown the door " by Thailand. Kicking tigers never, no never, pays off !

quite... I'm no big fan of the USA but Thailand has FAR more to learn from the US than the US from Thailand (think the Arts, Medicine, Science etc.) and as this poster says the giving is all ONE WAY (apart from the R&R)

Whoops EDIT maybe not 'medicine'? I mean Thailand invented the cure for Ebola right???

This has major moral complications for the ordinary Thai non com , they all look forward to Cobra as the Yanks , Ca, Oz and Kiwis leave their K rations behind so the boys have the only good meals for the year , they look forward to this ,maybe the k Rations might go over to the poor in Lao, that's if the US and allies arrive , fish and rice anyone.

[emilymat]

I just can't understand why venomous criticism of the US becomes almost a national sport on here. Sure, the US is not perfect but I can't see why it cannot express an opinion on the seizure of government by force.

Many references are made to Afghanistan. I'm old yes, but I seem to remember the US went into that country after establishing that the Taliban were supporting an organisation that had recently killed 3000 people in New York.