Thai farmers growing 4 million rais of rice paddies despite advised against it

[halloween]

So, there's a small shortage of water in Thailand ?

How about, the rain that falls in the North East is kept by that area. And the rain that falls on Bangkok is kept for Bangkok's consumption. Come on, if nothing is for free, then you must pay something. Bangkok should be reminded that it needs rural Thailand for it's own survival.

And just how do you propose to keep all that water in the NE? Drainage has a price too, so how about the people of central Thailand charge those in the NE for the damage caused by their excess drainage aka floods?

Food can be bought from many sources, and often better quality and cheaper than coming from your little area.Get good enough to compete or it will happen.

[German Viking]

Who is in the middle that allows water to the canals that irrigate the fields? if the water is behind a dam, who releases it to the rice fields? Something doesn't quite make sense.

Simple answer tea money release the water as usual.

[German Viking]

Yesterday I went to the Chiang Rai Land Dept to get some documentation with my wife, and I saw a nice big Royal poster about Sustainable Farming placed on the entry wall. I liked, very interesting and making sense. I asked for one to give to my farmers in laws. The receptionist said that was the only one, and that I may found for sale somewhere.....I looked in some book stores ...Cannot find any.

My question is..if the Government and the Royalty is so concerned about farming production, etc, why is not distributing massive information about, like that very instructive poster....I do not remember even seeing that poster on schools.

Without education nothing good will happen

I very simple to educate the rice farmers, I guess almost every rice farmer having today a TV.

Making every 5 minutes a break and pester them with for example:

"Don't planting during the dry season rice, we having water problems, you naughty boys"

And repeat it 100 times in every break and in every bloody TV program.

For the ppl in power with martial law in their back, I don't see a problem, I would do it asap.

[German Viking]

Growing or not is a business decision. And if a bad decision is made, farmers should be allowed to suffer the consequences, as does those in any other business.

Yeah. And let's be done with socialism once for all. Everyone get a gun and if they can't aim right, be allowed to suffer the consequences.

I think your analogy is a bit off base. The farmers, who have been growing rice for a couple of years now, .....should understand that last year's rainfall was inadequate to fill the reservoirs and dams with sufficient water to allow them to grow more than one crop. They were told this in no uncertain terms.

If anything, they might try and approach the present government or whatever you want to call it, and sit down with them and discuss the problem. P.M. Prayut is aware of their problem, but they have been warned of the folly of trying for 2 or 3 crops during a drought season.

Where I live the military has physically stopped some rice farmers from planting their rice crop but is allowing the massive sugarcane crop to continue. Funny how there is enough water for that.

Alcolhol is a very powerful weapon to keeping the ppl quiet, and a full stomach.

"Panem et circensis" Feed and entertain the ppl" as Nero said about 2000 years ago, a full stomach don't like to make revolutions, but there is another Damokles Sword pending over their heads, Loans!!!

They running as usual with open eyes in their desaster, and after the desaster appears, whining to the government for help.

PPl who getting permanent help will never change.

[German Viking]

Barely worth growing rice these days so don't really understand why so many do it for so little return.

It's called sufficiency theory. Promoted by the government so they don't have to bother with the long overdue structual changes needed in the economy such as retraining unskilled farmers for other more productive jobs with higher incomes. Growing rice keeps the peasants poor and controllable. Just what the leaders want

You hit the nail on the hat.

[German Viking]

Not much difference in why shale oil is still being produced by North Americans even when price of oil is at its bottom.

Mate behind these oil prices is political reason, USA with the help of the Saudis like to punish Russia does'nt matter what it cost.

[German Viking]

There are water conservation techniques farmers can use. One of these techniques uses a very simple devise - a short length of perforated PVC pipe. Now, can the farmers politely ask those people in the cities to reduce their water consumption? NO? Well then, F#$K You!!! (said the farmer).

Thank you for the post.

From what I could see in the pictures what you are looking at is often referred to as AWD (Alternative wetting and drying of the paddy) by the Rice Institute, The last picture in particular would suggest that it was taken on a farm using SRI methods (System of Rice Intensification). This is far more encompassing than just AWD and offers many benefits than just the application of AWD.

Under SRI some of the advantages that have been demonstrated include water saving of up to 40%, increased productivity, lower costs due to less seed, fertilizer and pesticides.

The obvious question is why has this not been more widely promoted in Thailand - look at the lower costs and come to your own conclusions. What is clear is that the uptake of SRI in Thailand's competitors and traditional markets is much higher than in Thailand, hence some of Thailand problems in the international market.

There are some useful videos in English on utube by the Seventh Day Adventists (no I am not trying to promote them - I am a Buddhist)

IMO some rich bandits like, that a lot of farmers going bankrupt, caused of their loans they have to selling their fields.

To invite effective methods in planting and harvesting you need bigger fields to use also big machines, it's just that simple.

[German Viking]

Then pay them NOT to grow it! Give them some living money to let the farms become uncultivated for a period of time.

And start encouraging these farmers to grow more suitable and saleable crops. Or practice rice farming in a more sustainable and profitable way, maybe co-operatives or something, large scale production. Sharing of common resources and better farm management techniques. Not much rocket science here

1. Who should pay them a naked person(LOS) don't having any pocket.

2. This desaster is planned (like with the free rubber trees spend by the goverment before and the plant oil farmers will going to

hell too caused of the low crude oil prices), all these makes sense for some rich bandits.

[German Viking]

Use the grey matter between your ears, there are many by-products of rice that we can get involved in, instead of importing, such as, rice noodles, egg role wrappers, edible rice paper, rice flower, rice dumplings, rice bran oil, rice milk, rice syrup, rice crackers, canned rice products, rice cooking oil, and of course all kinds of fuel. just to name a few.

You forgot Lao-Khao. I can just see it:

"2016. Thailand has record surplus of homemade whiskey. Government promises to buy it at twice its value."

You are wrong the goverment will not buy it, caused a lot of farmers will going bankrupt no money, but a lot of Lao Khao.

This is also a possibilty to kill ppl, dead ppl don't complain or making any revolution.

Then Thailand can send all the foreign workers home, caused not enough work for the own ppl.

I would like to hope the best, but unfortunately I expect the worst.

For me mission accoplished.

Carpe diem the whole world is on the way to hell already.

[German Viking]

So, there's a small shortage of water in Thailand ?

How about, the rain that falls in the North East is kept by that area. And the rain that falls on Bangkok is kept for Bangkok's consumption. Come on, if nothing is for free, then you must pay something. Bangkok should be reminded that it needs rural Thailand for it's own survival.

I agree, but not so many farmers as now, who produce ineffective to high costs.

[German Viking]

Problems in Agriculture here (like in building and other manual trades) come from lack of vocational education, lack of investment and an unwillingness to change.

Problems are exacerbated at the moment by the well documented policies of the previous government. This water shaortage excuse is a crock. It's simply an excuse to cover the fact the govt is now sat on more rice than it can sell. In one foul swoop, the previous govt. screwed up the entire world rice commodity markets. This is what happens when you aim for popularity at the cost of common sense and economic nous.

Farming here is like stepping back 60+ years in time, if they dont change now, by investing and (as another poster pointed out) setting up cooperatives and trying to organise and drag their industry into the 21st century then the whole industry here will fail and be even further reduced to a subsistence based model. AEU is HERE. Will Thailand compete or fall by the wayside ?

Thailand has so much arable land. Use it with wisdom and foresight dear farmers.....

Didnt the govt a few years ago give all the farmers credit cards to use for investment in their farms ? It wouldnt suprise me if the the card debt remained long after the investments..ie flat screen TV and smart phone, had been sold off. Farmers want, and deserve better lives and standard of living but they have to understand that in the beginning this means massive change.

Unfortunately is for the most farmers to late already, to change.

[Robby nz]

Lets take a little bit of a closer look at why we are in the situation we are in now.

In 2011 there was extensive flooding particularly in the CP river basin culminating in the runoff reaching BKK.

This was made worse by the dams being full and water having to be released at the peak of the rains,. So :

"During 2011 the dams were full, up to the operational limit, and dam operators had to release water at the wrong time. Latest news is that they decided to operate at a lower level, give less priority to agricultural and energy use, in favour of downstream flood protection. Hence a lower risk for dam breaks," Tjitte Nauta, Deltares' integrated water management specialist for Southeast Asia, said."

Right, now it had been decided that the dams should be kept at a lower level so they could be managed better in a flood situation, but this was unfortunately taken to extremes.

Does anyone else remember PT wanting to take the dams down to 30% level before the 2012 rainy season then Yingluck going to ask the advice of His Majesty who said they should never be let to get below 50%

Well the weather people had been telling them that the rains were not going to come to the same intensity as global weather patterns had changed and the country was looking at a drought cycle, but in spite of this the dams were allowed to drop to low levels.

The weather people have been proved to be correct and the rains and floods did not come and the dams have never recovered so we see the situation we have today and we are really not into the driest time of the year as yet.

So a matter of priorities as per the highlighted quote above.

That does not however change the fact that there is a drought situation because of lack of rain, but better dam management could alleviate the situation to a large extent.

[German Viking]

There is a reason why they are called RICE Farmers. Care to guess what that reason is? Another question is "What will they do if the did not plant rice?"

Well how about this for a novel view? "There is a reason they are called rice FARMERS. Care to guess what it is? What will they do if they don't plant rice? Plant something else. Water melons is a quick crop for example

Some planting water melons after the rice and having good business, selling so much as possible local and the rest to a wholesale dealer.

[German Viking]

Grow potatoes,rice needs to much water

You sounds like a rocket siencetist you cannot plant potatoes everywhere I small flood and you can forget the harvest.

[bboy]

Barely worth growing rice these days so don't really understand why so many do it for so little return.

Some just born into the family business. Ultimately there are rarely any new ideas in business for the local masses here. Open another coffee shop, export cheap jewellery,

Sell fish balls wholesale no noodle vendors...goes on & mostly low ROI. No originality & just a copycat culture!

[BSJ]

If half the people on this thread had any idea about farming in Thailand they should put forth any good ideas or shut the he11 up!

In the district were I live the alternate crops are corn for some and tapioca and watermelon for many this year with some paddie being left fallow.

[German Viking]

If half the people on this thread had any idea about farming in Thailand they should put forth any good ideas or shut the he11 up!

In the district were I live the alternate crops are corn for some and tapioca and watermelon for many this year with some paddie being left fallow.

The problem is not teach them, the would says good idea, but would'nt follow your advices like to grow no rice now, samesame and not really different, this is a problem with their mindset, culture etc., caused they did the same for generation.

A lot still not realize that somethings change and not only the climate, the most will not change until the desaster appears, but then is it to late.

[harada]

If half the people on this thread had any idea about farming in Thailand they should put forth any good ideas or shut the he11 up!

In the district were I live the alternate crops are corn for some and tapioca and watermelon for many this year with some paddie being left fallow.

The problem is not teach them, the would says good idea, but would'nt follow your advices like to grow no rice now, samesame and not really different, this is a problem with their mindset, culture etc., caused they did the same for generation.

A lot still not realize that somethings change and not only the climate, the most will not change until the desaster appears, but then is it to late.

. .?

[toybits]

Growing or not is a business decision. And if a bad decision is made, farmers should be allowed to suffer the consequences, as does those in any other business.

Yeah. And let's be done with socialism once for all. Everyone get a gun and if they can't aim right, be allowed to suffer the consequences.

I think your analogy is a bit off base. The farmers, who have been growing rice for a couple of years now, .....should understand that last year's rainfall was inadequate to fill the reservoirs and dams with sufficient water to allow them to grow more than one crop. They were told this in no uncertain terms.

If anything, they might try and approach the present government or whatever you want to call it, and sit down with them and discuss the problem. P.M. Prayut is aware of their problem, but they have been warned of the folly of trying for 2 or 3 crops during a drought season.

Where I live the military has physically stopped some rice farmers from planting their rice crop but is allowing the massive sugarcane crop to continue. Funny how there is enough water for that.

The reason for that is because - Sugarcane is a crop that requires much less water than rice.

[apetley]

Growing or not is a business decision. And if a bad decision is made, farmers should be allowed to suffer the consequences, as does those in any other business.

Yeah. And let's be done with socialism once for all. Everyone get a gun and if they can't aim right, be allowed to suffer the consequences.

I think your analogy is a bit off base. The farmers, who have been growing rice for a couple of years now, .....should understand that last year's rainfall was inadequate to fill the reservoirs and dams with sufficient water to allow them to grow more than one crop. They were told this in no uncertain terms.

If anything, they might try and approach the present government or whatever you want to call it, and sit down with them and discuss the problem. P.M. Prayut is aware of their problem, but they have been warned of the folly of trying for 2 or 3 crops during a drought season.

Where I live the military has physically stopped some rice farmers from planting their rice crop but is allowing the massive sugarcane crop to continue. Funny how there is enough water for that.

The reason for that is because - Sugarcane is a crop that requires much less water than rice.

Not according to this.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/S2022E/s2022e02.htm

[trogers]

There is a reason why they are called RICE Farmers. Care to guess what that reason is? Another question is "What will they do if the did not plant rice?"

Well how about this for a novel view? "There is a reason they are called rice FARMERS. Care to guess what it is? What will they do if they don't plant rice? Plant something else. Water melons is a quick crop for example

They lack two necessary resources: savings as an investment, and grey matters between both ears.

All required info on alternative farming has been researched by their King and readily available through request. Past experiences and recommendations can be gathered using search engines on the Internet.

But many are too spoiled and too lazy to help themselves. Freebies have killed their desire to get off their butts.

[toybits]

There is a reason why they are called RICE Farmers. Care to guess what that reason is? Another question is "What will they do if the did not plant rice?"

Many are planting cassava.is what they

It grows fine without irrigation.

It also sells for a good price, unlike rice.

That is what they do!

Ah! Yes, you are correct. They usually plant cassava (or Manioc) in Isaan (the drier Northeastern Region of Thailand). But that area is usually rainfed - meaning the type of agriculture is dependent on Natural precipitation (in other words - RAIN). There are two types of rice cultivation - Upland (rainfed) and lowland (irrigated). Most of the rice planted in the provinces north of Bangkok (e.g. Angthong, Chainat, Ayuthaya) are irrigated rice fields. It is these areas that the government are concerned about. They don't give a S#$t about those cassava planting rice farmers of the northeast.

[trogers]

If half the people on this thread had any idea about farming in Thailand they should put forth any good ideas or shut the he11 up!

In the district were I live the alternate crops are corn for some and tapioca and watermelon for many this year with some paddie being left fallow.

The problem is not teach them, the would says good idea, but would'nt follow your advices like to grow no rice now, samesame and not really different, this is a problem with their mindset, culture etc., caused they did the same for generation.

A lot still not realize that somethings change and not only the climate, the most will not change until the desaster appears, but then is it to late.

Read up on "Natural Selection" of Charles Darwin.

[toybits]

There is a reason why they are called RICE Farmers. Care to guess what that reason is? Another question is "What will they do if the did not plant rice?"

Well how about this for a novel view? "There is a reason they are called rice FARMERS. Care to guess what it is? What will they do if they don't plant rice? Plant something else. Water melons is a quick crop for example

You are correct in that Rice Farmers do not necessarily plant only rice. Some of them plant soybean after rice to augment their income and also to enrich the soil as soybeans are nitrogen-fixing plants (adds nitrogen nutrient which rice plants can later extract from the soil). But what is your point here? We are talking about irrigated rice cultivation.

Edited February 5, 2015 by toybits

[trogers]

There is a reason why they are called RICE Farmers. Care to guess what that reason is? Another question is "What will they do if the did not plant rice?"

Many are planting cassava.is what they

It grows fine without irrigation.

It also sells for a good price, unlike rice.

That is what they do!

Ah! Yes, you are correct. They usually plant cassava (or Manioc) in Isaan (the drier Northeastern Region of Thailand). But that area is usually rainfed - meaning the type of agriculture is dependent on Natural precipitation (in other words - RAIN). There are two types of rice cultivation - Upland (rainfed) and lowland (irrigated). Most of the rice planted in the provinces north of Bangkok (e.g. Angthong, Chainat, Ayuthaya) are irrigated rice fields. It is these areas that the government are concerned about. They don't give a S#$t about those cassava planting rice farmers of the northeast.

You first ask the rice farmers of the northeast what was there on their land during the time their grandfathers were kids.

One does not kill the golden goose and then blame others for not helping them later.

[toybits]

There are water conservation techniques farmers can use. One of these techniques uses a very simple devise - a short length of perforated PVC pipe. Now, can the farmers politely ask those people in the cities to reduce their water consumption? NO? Well then, F#$K You!!! (said the farmer).

Thank you for the post.

From what I could see in the pictures what you are looking at is often referred to as AWD (Alternative wetting and drying of the paddy) by the Rice Institute, The last picture in particular would suggest that it was taken on a farm using SRI methods (System of Rice Intensification). This is far more encompassing than just AWD and offers many benefits than just the application of AWD.

Under SRI some of the advantages that have been demonstrated include water saving of up to 40%, increased productivity, lower costs due to less seed, fertilizer and pesticides.

The obvious question is why has this not been more widely promoted in Thailand - look at the lower costs and come to your own conclusions. What is clear is that the uptake of SRI in Thailand's competitors and traditional markets is much higher than in Thailand, hence some of Thailand problems in the international market.

There are some useful videos in English on utube by the Seventh Day Adventists (no I am not trying to promote them - I am a Buddhist)

IMO some rich bandits like, that a lot of farmers going bankrupt, caused of their loans they have to selling their fields.

To invite effective methods in planting and harvesting you need bigger fields to use also big machines, it's just that simple.

Many small farms have their rice harvested using combines. In case you have not noticed, there are many roaming combine harvesters that do contract harvesting. Owning a combine harvester is not the only option.

[toybits]

Growing or not is a business decision. And if a bad decision is made, farmers should be allowed to suffer the consequences, as does those in any other business.

Yeah. And let's be done with socialism once for all. Everyone get a gun and if they can't aim right, be allowed to suffer the consequences.

I think your analogy is a bit off base. The farmers, who have been growing rice for a couple of years now, .....should understand that last year's rainfall was inadequate to fill the reservoirs and dams with sufficient water to allow them to grow more than one crop. They were told this in no uncertain terms.

If anything, they might try and approach the present government or whatever you want to call it, and sit down with them and discuss the problem. P.M. Prayut is aware of their problem, but they have been warned of the folly of trying for 2 or 3 crops during a drought season.

Where I live the military has physically stopped some rice farmers from planting their rice crop but is allowing the massive sugarcane crop to continue. Funny how there is enough water for that.

The reason for that is because - Sugarcane is a crop that requires much less water than rice.

Not according to this.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/S2022E/s2022e02.htm

This is the problem that occurs when you rely too much on literature such as that you provided in the FAO link and not really understanding the farming system as a whole. There is a very big difference between a crop's physiologic need for water and the agronomic use of water. In the later case (agronomic use), rice fields are flooded to control weeds. By flooding the fields, weed competition is minimized. That amount of water used to flood the field is not needed by the rice plant but is there anyway for a different purpose. So while the FAO article may be correct, it is out of context because it only refers to the physiological water requirement.

[kieran2698]

There is a reason why they are called RICE Farmers. Care to guess what that reason is? Another question is "What will they do if the did not plant rice?"

They are not advising farmers not to grow rice, they are advising them not to grow an off season crop. Rice farmers can grow a variety of off season crops in their rice field, it does not have to be rice, for instance many grow tapioca.

[apetley]

Growing or not is a business decision. And if a bad decision is made, farmers should be allowed to suffer the consequences, as does those in any other business.

Yeah. And let's be done with socialism once for all. Everyone get a gun and if they can't aim right, be allowed to suffer the consequences.

I think your analogy is a bit off base. The farmers, who have been growing rice for a couple of years now, .....should understand that last year's rainfall was inadequate to fill the reservoirs and dams with sufficient water to allow them to grow more than one crop. They were told this in no uncertain terms.

If anything, they might try and approach the present government or whatever you want to call it, and sit down with them and discuss the problem. P.M. Prayut is aware of their problem, but they have been warned of the folly of trying for 2 or 3 crops during a drought season.

Where I live the military has physically stopped some rice farmers from planting their rice crop but is allowing the massive sugarcane crop to continue. Funny how there is enough water for that.

The reason for that is because - Sugarcane is a crop that requires much less water than rice.

Not according to this.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/S2022E/s2022e02.htm

This is the problem that occurs when you rely too much on literature such as that you provided in the FAO link and not really understanding the farming system as a whole. There is a very big difference between a crop's physiologic need for water and the agronomic use of water. In the later case (agronomic use), rice fields are flooded to control weeds. By flooding the fields, weed competition is minimized. That amount of water used to flood the field is not needed by the rice plant but is there anyway for a different purpose. So while the FAO article may be correct, it is out of context because it only refers to the physiological water requirement.

Agree entirely with what you say but here's what a family member said this morning when I pushed them on the issue. His immediate response was that rice uses more water. Then he thought about it and said that sugarcane needed watering more often but with less. His final conclusion......'about the same......maybe'.

[toybits]

Growing or not is a business decision. And if a bad decision is made, farmers should be allowed to suffer the consequences, as does those in any other business.

Yeah. And let's be done with socialism once for all. Everyone get a gun and if they can't aim right, be allowed to suffer the consequences.

I think your analogy is a bit off base. The farmers, who have been growing rice for a couple of years now, .....should understand that last year's rainfall was inadequate to fill the reservoirs and dams with sufficient water to allow them to grow more than one crop. They were told this in no uncertain terms.

If anything, they might try and approach the present government or whatever you want to call it, and sit down with them and discuss the problem. P.M. Prayut is aware of their problem, but they have been warned of the folly of trying for 2 or 3 crops during a drought season.

Where I live the military has physically stopped some rice farmers from planting their rice crop but is allowing the massive sugarcane crop to continue. Funny how there is enough water for that.

The reason for that is because - Sugarcane is a crop that requires much less water than rice.

Not according to this.

http://www.fao.org/docrep/S2022E/s2022e02.htm

This is the problem that occurs when you rely too much on literature such as that you provided in the FAO link and not really understanding the farming system as a whole. There is a very big difference between a crop's physiologic need for water and the agronomic use of water. In the later case (agronomic use), rice fields are flooded to control weeds. By flooding the fields, weed competition is minimized. That amount of water used to flood the field is not needed by the rice plant but is there anyway for a different purpose. So while the FAO article may be correct, it is out of context because it only refers to the physiological water requirement.

Agree entirely with what you say but here's what a family member said this morning when I pushed them on the issue. His immediate response was that rice uses more water. Then he thought about it and said that sugarcane needed watering more often but with less. His final conclusion......'about the same......maybe'.

You also have to consider that the growing period of rice (90 to 150 days) is much shorter than that of sugarcane (270 to 360 days).