UK anti-Semitic incidents hit record in 2014, says charity

[Morch]

This coughing business is insulting. People can just say Jew or Jewish if that's what you mean. Euphemisms are not needed.

This is a good example of a situation where antisemitism is seen in every shadow. Reds under the bed.

The "cough cough" was clearly meant to indicate that the "charity" has doubtful and suspicious mandate and purpose. "Jewish" was not intended to preface "charity".

Yeah sure. Just say "the Jews" and get it over with.

If I had wanted to say "Jewish charity", I would have written Jewish charity. The "cough, cough" is a very common way to indicate the belief that something is not what it claims to be. Seriously, how is this obviously political lobbying group considered a "charity"? It's ridiculous.

Anyway, thanks for perfectly illustrating a point I made earlier in the thread about many of these incidents likely having nothing to do with hate crimes. They were simply crimes that happened to impact Jewish people and they or the **cough, cough** "charity" turned it into something it wasn't. That said, actual hate crimes against any group or individual should be aggressively prosecuted.

Some are just a bit too anxious to find antisemitism under every rock. Try keeping your powder dry, because if/when actual incidents occur, you don't want to be with even less credibility than you have now.

many of these incidents likely having nothing to do with hate crimes. They were simply crimes that happened to impact Jewish people

How would you know that?

[kieran2698]

Who cares. Sick of hearing about it. You don't hear about anyone else gets berated or "targeted" there just this crowd. They seem to keep bringing up on a regular basis lest you forget. Someone screams anti-semitic and everyone is expected to cower or apologize. Btw, Semitic is not Hebrew, it is anyone from the Levant region of the Mediterranean, historically that includes Phoenicians, Carthaginians, and oh yea, Arabs. Like I said who cares there are more important things to concern ourselves with.

It's about hatred against Jews. That is the definition of antisemitic. Pretty much the only people who rant on about not accepting the established definition of antisemitic (SPECIFICALLY about hatred against JEWS) have issues with Jews and wish there wasn't a word for hatred against Jews. Well it's (hatred against Jews) something that exists as has for thousands of years including multiple genocides against Jews so a word for something so serious is needed. If you don't want to hear about hatred against Jews ... tough cookies, move to another topic instead of posting about it. Would that work?

Actually the definition is about hatred of Semites, a group which includes Arabs.

[Seastallion]

'We’re leaving Britain - Jews aren’t safe here any more’ After watching the rise in anti-Semitism in this country, the Gould family has taken the radical decision to emigrate to America. They tell Angela Epstein why

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11393427/Were-leaving-Britain-Jews-arent-safe-here-any-more.html

I think this article posted by Chicog provides a little background and information about the situation for Jews in Britain. It also addresses a little of what the charity does. It also references remarks from the police.

I suppose it depends on what colour spectacles you're wearing, what you take from the article.

Many will see an over-reaction and a blatant attempt at dramatic sympathy-seeking and blame. (eg " says Honey, who admits that even emptying a single drawer “takes hours” ", drama queen!)

What the article does make clear is the famiiy's purported fear of verbal abuse. That is not a safety issue, and there is no report of safety issues.

When it comes to antisemitism (which is as intolerable as racism or any other bigotry, in my mind), it seems that "sticks and stones" is irrelevant. The family cited a swastika painted on a gravestone...really? This is reason to uproot your family?

They cite events in France and Brussels to exemplify the situation in Manchester! Really? Cite events in the UK to state the situation in the UK.

I think the background you're talking about Scott is the background of the point I have been trying to make throughout this thread, and that is that some (note some, not all) antisemitism claims are really quite minor issues to do with a minority of idiot thugs or actually just par for the course in any city for any minority, while other alleged antisemitism events are actually anti-Israel events but, either it is automatically taken as antisemitic (when it's not), or the idiots who perpetrate them are too ignorant to differentiate.

[Morch]

Unlike you I live in the UK and speak from experience.

You appear to just want to parrot these incorrect and dubious figures without the experience of knowing what life in the UK is like.

You appear to suggest that Great Britain is a dangerous places for Jewish people who all need police protection.

Nothing could be further than the truth.

You appear to suggest that Great Britain is a dangerous places for Jewish people who all need police protection.

Not at all. That is quite a creative interpretation of my posts. Saying that there is a rise in antisemitic incidents is not the same as saying there is a deluge of incidents. Saying that relative to minority group size the number of incidents directed at Jews could be more significant then when compared to the overall population - is not quite the same as well.

There was, however, an article linked (not by me) which could show some see things in a different light:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11393427/Were-leaving-Britain-Jews-arent-safe-here-any-more.html

[Jingthing]

Who cares. Sick of hearing about it. You don't hear about anyone else gets berated or "targeted" there just this crowd. They seem to keep bringing up on a regular basis lest you forget. Someone screams anti-semitic and everyone is expected to cower or apologize. Btw, Semitic is not Hebrew, it is anyone from the Levant region of the Mediterranean, historically that includes Phoenicians, Carthaginians, and oh yea, Arabs. Like I said who cares there are more important things to concern ourselves with.

It's about hatred against Jews. That is the definition of antisemitic. Pretty much the only people who rant on about not accepting the established definition of antisemitic (SPECIFICALLY about hatred against JEWS) have issues with Jews and wish there wasn't a word for hatred against Jews. Well it's (hatred against Jews) something that exists as has for thousands of years including multiple genocides against Jews so a word for something so serious is needed. If you don't want to hear about hatred against Jews ... tough cookies, move to another topic instead of posting about it. Would that work?

Actually the definition is about hatred of Semites, a group which includes Arabs.

You are 100 percent wrong.

This isn't about the definition of semites.

The topic here is ANTISEMITISM ... which is specifically about hatred only towards JEWS.

We've been over this hundreds of times.

Get with the program.

Read the OP.

It's about JEWS.

Deal with it.

[Seastallion]

If I had wanted to say "Jewish charity", I would have written Jewish charity. The "cough, cough" is a very common way to indicate the belief that something is not what it claims to be. Seriously, how is this obviously political lobbying group considered a "charity"? It's ridiculous.

Anyway, thanks for perfectly illustrating a point I made earlier in the thread about many of these incidents likely having nothing to do with hate crimes. They were simply crimes that happened to impact Jewish people and they or the **cough, cough** "charity" turned it into something it wasn't. That said, actual hate crimes against any group or individual should be aggressively prosecuted.

Some are just a bit too anxious to find antisemitism under every rock. Try keeping your powder dry, because if/when actual incidents occur, you don't want to be with even less credibility than you have now.

many of these incidents likely having nothing to do with hate crimes. They were simply crimes that happened to impact Jewish people

How would you know that?

middle (earliest) posts removed, space blah blah...

He said "likely"....it's not purporting to know....think of it as an educated guess.

And I concur.

[Morch]

The problem is that such attacks are on the rise against muslims as well - which is probably exactly what these terrorists want.

Create a divide and stoke up resentment.

What terrorists?

Antisemitic incidents are a cunning plan do drive a wedge between minorities in the UK?

After the Charlie Hebdo attacks, the number of race-related incidents against muslims in the UK spiked.

One of the most common interpretations of what Islamic terrorist leaders want is to generate anti-muslim sentiment in the West and thus stoke up anti-Western sentiment in muslim communities.

So in a roundabout way, the answer to your question is yes.

But my point mainly was that racist attacks are up in the UK, not just against Jews - and this suits certain peoples agenda.

The OP and the report in question deal with antisemitic incidents in the UK which took place during 2014. The Charlie Hebdo attack was in 2015.

As far as I can make out from the report it does not fully support the notion that most incidents are related to Muslims vs. Jews.

Wouldn't be surprised if racist incidents were on the rise with regards to other minorities, and I'm pretty sure that there will be similar reports published from relevant organizations. This report does not contradict or detract from this possibility.

[Jay Sata]

The only place that accurate crime figures can be collated from is annual police reports which are used to produced UK crime statistics.

Now speaking as someone who has had to report a theft in the past let me explain to non UK's residents how the system works.

In filing a crime report to get a crime number,needed to claim on your insurance , involves filling out a form.

The police are never interested in turning up to most non violent crimes.

Like most public bodies these days it involves a questionaire on ethnicity,religion and gender.

I always put other and leave it at that.

Despite the police never bothering to investigate they collate this information.

Hence a simple burglary with a window broken and stuff thrown everywhere can easily be logged as a hate crime because the victim is Jewish or tries to get the police to investigate suggesting is is race or religion focused.

There were around 7.5 million crimes in the UK up until mid 2014 according to the latest statistics.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/period-ending-june-2014/index.html

Of these just over 80 are cited as hate crimes against Jewish people according to the report from the charity we are discussing.

Not exactly an epidemic.

However I am sure that even if there were just five there would still some here trying to suggest the UK is overrun with racists and religious thugs.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Jay Sata

[Morch]

'We’re leaving Britain - Jews aren’t safe here any more’ After watching the rise in anti-Semitism in this country, the Gould family has taken the radical decision to emigrate to America. They tell Angela Epstein why

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/11393427/Were-leaving-Britain-Jews-arent-safe-here-any-more.html

I think this article posted by Chicog provides a little background and information about the situation for Jews in Britain. It also addresses a little of what the charity does. It also references remarks from the police.

I suppose it depends on what colour spectacles you're wearing, what you take from the article.

Many will see an over-reaction and a blatant attempt at dramatic sympathy-seeking and blame. (eg " says Honey, who admits that even emptying a single drawer “takes hours” ", drama queen!)

What the article does make clear is the famiiy's purported fear of verbal abuse. That is not a safety issue, and there is no report of safety issues.

When it comes to antisemitism (which is as intolerable as racism or any other bigotry, in my mind), it seems that "sticks and stones" is irrelevant. The family cited a swastika painted on a gravestone...really? This is reason to uproot your family?

They cite events in France and Brussels to exemplify the situation in Manchester! Really? Cite events in the UK to state the situation in the UK.

I think the background you're talking about Scott is the background of the point I have been trying to make throughout this thread, and that is that some (note some, not all) antisemitism claims are really quite minor issues to do with a minority of idiot thugs or actually just par for the course in any city for any minority, while other alleged antisemitism events are actually anti-Israel events but, either it is automatically taken as antisemitic (when it's not), or the idiots who perpetrate them are too ignorant to differentiate.

I guess that for many Jews better-safe-than-sorry is a lesson well taught by now.

By the way, somehow acceptable when posters talk about having trouble with Thai neighbors. Many times the common wisdom dished is along the line of "Don't wait until it gets worse. And it will. Move.".

[Jingthing]

Often at "anti-Zionist" events there is explicit antisemitic expression (hatred against Jews).

Anyway, my perception is that the percentage of British Jews seriously considering fleeing Britain for safety reasons is not high compared to France. Hopefully, the UK antisemitism situation can be improved to the point so that no Jews decide to leave for such negative reasons.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Jingthing

[Morch]

If I had wanted to say "Jewish charity", I would have written Jewish charity. The "cough, cough" is a very common way to indicate the belief that something is not what it claims to be. Seriously, how is this obviously political lobbying group considered a "charity"? It's ridiculous.

Anyway, thanks for perfectly illustrating a point I made earlier in the thread about many of these incidents likely having nothing to do with hate crimes. They were simply crimes that happened to impact Jewish people and they or the **cough, cough** "charity" turned it into something it wasn't. That said, actual hate crimes against any group or individual should be aggressively prosecuted.

Some are just a bit too anxious to find antisemitism under every rock. Try keeping your powder dry, because if/when actual incidents occur, you don't want to be with even less credibility than you have now.

many of these incidents likely having nothing to do with hate crimes. They were simply crimes that happened to impact Jewish people

How would you know that?

middle (earliest) posts removed, space blah blah...

He said "likely"....it's not purporting to know....think of it as an educated guess.

And I concur.

Educated how? As far as I can figure out the incidents which the report deals with are just those which had an obvious connection to the victims being Jewish. It does not really deal with general criminal incidents in which Jews were the victims.

[Morch]

The only place that accurate crime figures can be collated from is annual police reports which are used to produced UK crime statistics.

Now speaking as someone who has had to report a theft in the past let me explain to non UK's residents how the system works.

In filing a crime report to get a crime number,needed to claim on your insurance , involves filling out a form.

The police are never interested in turning up to most non violent crimes.

Like most public bodies these days it involves a questionaire on ethnicity,religion and gender.

I always put other and leave it at that.

Despite the police never bothering to investigate they collate this information.

Hence a simple burglary with a window broken and stuff thrown everywhere can easily be logged as a hate crime because the victim is Jewish or tries to get the police to investigate suggesting is is race or religion focused.

There were around 7.5 million crimes in the UK up until mid 2014 according to the latest statistics.

http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/crime-stats/crime-statistics/period-ending-june-2014/index.html

Of these just over 80 are cited as hate crimes against Jewish people according to the report from the charity we are discussing.

Not exactly an epidemic.

However I am sure that even if there were just five there would still some here trying to suggest the UK is overrun with racists and religious thugs.

The report deals with cases where the victims being Jews was clearly related to the incident, not general criminal activity which Jews might face as UK citizens/residents.

[Seastallion]

Who cares. Sick of hearing about it. You don't hear about anyone else gets berated or "targeted" there just this crowd. They seem to keep bringing up on a regular basis lest you forget. Someone screams anti-semitic and everyone is expected to cower or apologize. Btw, Semitic is not Hebrew, it is anyone from the Levant region of the Mediterranean, historically that includes Phoenicians, Carthaginians, and oh yea, Arabs. Like I said who cares there are more important things to concern ourselves with.

It's about hatred against Jews. That is the definition of antisemitic. Pretty much the only people who rant on about not accepting the established definition of antisemitic (SPECIFICALLY about hatred against JEWS) have issues with Jews and wish there wasn't a word for hatred against Jews. Well it's (hatred against Jews) something that exists as has for thousands of years including multiple genocides against Jews so a word for something so serious is needed. If you don't want to hear about hatred against Jews ... tough cookies, move to another topic instead of posting about it. Would that work?

Actually the definition is about hatred of Semites, a group which includes Arabs.

You are 100 percent wrong.

This isn't about the definition of semites.

The topic here is ANTISEMITISM ... which is specifically about hatred only towards JEWS.

We've been over this hundreds of times.

Get with the program.

Read the OP.

It's about JEWS.

Deal with it.

I'm with you JT. The definition of antisemite is clear, and it is silly semantics to try to define other Arabs as Semite, for the purposes of these discussions.

But in saying that, you have to distance anti-Zionists and opposers-of-Israeli-policy from the label of antisemite.

Stop labeling every criticism as "antisemite" and people may not try to use semantics to argue a point.

[Jingthing]

All this energy being spent to deny a problem that is obviously real ... increasing antisemitism (hatred against Jews) in the UK. The defensive denial is typical and predictable. Why not just own up to the problem and voice support for the UK government's efforts to fight this hatred of Jews? Would that be so hard? What is the loss there?

Edited February 9, 2015 by Jingthing

[Jay Sata]

I will tell you something about the organisation that produced the figures we are talking about. The have income of several million a year and hide behind trustees.

They are very good at what the do lobbying to create fear and they were founded by fraudster Gerald Ronson who was jailed some years ago.

None of my critics have managed to substantiate the figures as being genuine and it appears they have no personal knowledge of the UK.

Propaganda merchants is probably the best way of describing the CST or Community Security Trust who hide their pro Jewish agenda behind an innocent sounding name.

[Seastallion]

If I had wanted to say "Jewish charity", I would have written Jewish charity. The "cough, cough" is a very common way to indicate the belief that something is not what it claims to be. Seriously, how is this obviously political lobbying group considered a "charity"? It's ridiculous.

Anyway, thanks for perfectly illustrating a point I made earlier in the thread about many of these incidents likely having nothing to do with hate crimes. They were simply crimes that happened to impact Jewish people and they or the **cough, cough** "charity" turned it into something it wasn't. That said, actual hate crimes against any group or individual should be aggressively prosecuted.

Some are just a bit too anxious to find antisemitism under every rock. Try keeping your powder dry, because if/when actual incidents occur, you don't want to be with even less credibility than you have now.

many of these incidents likely having nothing to do with hate crimes. They were simply crimes that happened to impact Jewish people

How would you know that?

middle (earliest) posts removed, space blah blah...

He said "likely"....it's not purporting to know....think of it as an educated guess.

And I concur.

Educated how? As far as I can figure out the incidents which the report deals with are just those which had an obvious connection to the victims being Jewish. It does not really deal with general criminal incidents in which Jews were the victims.

Educated how?

Do you really want me to give you the numerous examples of incidents where the crime was just a crime against a person but because the victim was Jewish, the crime became (cough cough) "antisemitic"?

I think know you know better than that.

Don't play semantics about what "educated guess" means.

[Chicog]

All this energy being spent to deny a problem that is obviously real ... increasing antisemitism (hatred against Jews) in the UK. The defensive denial is typical and predictable. Why not just own up to the problem and voice support for the UK government's efforts to fight this hatred of Jews? Would that be so hard? What is the loss there?

I have no problem with the UK government fighting any racial hatred.

But not one form at the expense of another.

A hate crime is a hate crime.

[Jingthing]

I am trying to understand why anti-Zionists are so invested in denial of a real problem ... increasing antisemitism in the UK. The only thing I can think of is that if UK Jews do really feel afraid enough to leave, most will be going to Israel. So anti-Zionist extremists of course don't want more Jews in Israel (they don't want any Jews in Israel) so perhaps that's logical. But getting real here, do you think individual British Jews would make a huge migration decision based on media reports alone? Surely such a big decision would usually involve PERSONAL experiences. I think at this point there is no rational reason to think there is going to be an immigration wave of British Jews to Israel based on negative reasons (fear). There is a dramatic spike from France though for reported negative reasons (France not feeling safe) ... hopefully that will never happen in the UK.

Edited February 9, 2015 by Jingthing

[Seastallion]

I will tell you something about the organisation that produced the figures we are talking about. The have income of several million a year and hide behind trustees.

They are very good at what the do lobbying to create fear and they were founded by fraudster Gerald Ronson who was jailed some years ago.

None of my critics have managed to substantiate the figures as being genuine and it appears they have no personal knowledge of the UK.

Propaganda merchants is probably the best way of describing the CST or Community Security Trust who hide their pro Jewish agenda behind an innocent sounding name.

To be ignored or disingenuously protested by the Zionist apologists.

Can any member state categorically that all the reported "antisemite" events were actually perpetrated with an intent to harm or offend Jews specifically?

[Morch]

many of these incidents likely having nothing to do with hate crimes. They were simply crimes that happened to impact Jewish people

How would you know that?

middle (earliest) posts removed, space blah blah...

He said "likely"....it's not purporting to know....think of it as an educated guess.

And I concur.

Educated how? As far as I can figure out the incidents which the report deals with are just those which had an obvious connection to the victims being Jewish. It does not really deal with general criminal incidents in which Jews were the victims.

Educated how?

Do you really want me to give you the numerous examples of incidents where the crime was just a crime against a person but because the victim was Jewish, the crime became (cough cough) "antisemitic"?

I think know you know better than that.

Don't play semantics about what "educated guess" means.

The comment was made in the context of the current report. Take care not to fall off your high horse.

Instead of guessing what incidents the report details, it is quite easy to actually have a look.

[Seastallion]

I am trying to understand why anti-Zionists are so invested in denial of a real problem ... increasing antisemitism in the UK. The only thing I can think of is that if UK Jews do really feel afraid enough to leave, most will be going to Israel. So anti-Zionist extremists of course don't want more Jews in Israel (they don't want any Jews in Israel) so perhaps that's logical. But getting real here, do you think individual British Jews would make a huge migration decision based on media reports alone? Surely such a big decision would usually involve PERSONAL experiences.

Sorry for laughing...really.... but it is funny that you try so hard to define "antisemitism" yet fail to realise that anti-Zionism is a different and separate thing.

Your "rationale" is quite flawed.

[Morch]

I will tell you something about the organisation that produced the figures we are talking about. The have income of several million a year and hide behind trustees.

They are very good at what the do lobbying to create fear and they were founded by fraudster Gerald Ronson who was jailed some years ago.

None of my critics have managed to substantiate the figures as being genuine and it appears they have no personal knowledge of the UK.

Propaganda merchants is probably the best way of describing the CST or Community Security Trust who hide their pro Jewish agenda behind an innocent sounding name.

And once again, you don't get it.

Posters do not need to prove the OP correct, following you claim that it is not.

Other way around.

You have not demonstrated any of your claims so far, at least not in a way usually considered acceptable. You basically simply state it ain't so and that's it.

[Jay Sata]

You obviously just take all this rubbish in and regurgitate it without providing any sort of evidence to support your claim.

Golders Green has a very large Jewish population who have an excellent rapport with all the other nationalities in the area.

This organisation is out to create fear where it does not exist hence my story from the Jewish Chronicle which you choose to ignore.

To comment without experience is plain daft as we say in the UK.

[Morch]

I will tell you something about the organisation that produced the figures we are talking about. The have income of several million a year and hide behind trustees.

They are very good at what the do lobbying to create fear and they were founded by fraudster Gerald Ronson who was jailed some years ago.

None of my critics have managed to substantiate the figures as being genuine and it appears they have no personal knowledge of the UK.

Propaganda merchants is probably the best way of describing the CST or Community Security Trust who hide their pro Jewish agenda behind an innocent sounding name.

To be ignored or disingenuously protested by the Zionist apologists.

Can any member state categorically that all the reported "antisemite" events were actually perpetrated with an intent to harm or offend Jews specifically?

What is it that you expect, exactly? That posters confirm each individual case first hand? That posters re-write and re-examine the report to your satisfaction and only then be able to comment on the OP? The OP is not contested to the level implied by the posts of some posters, the report is not contested to the level implied by some posters. The OP mentions UK police cooperation and support for the report (expanded on in the report itself), UK government did not brush it aside as well.

If posters want to prove the OP and the report are bogus, let them produce facts which support their claims. So far, non were provided.

[Morch]

All this energy being spent to deny a problem that is obviously real ... increasing antisemitism (hatred against Jews) in the UK. The defensive denial is typical and predictable. Why not just own up to the problem and voice support for the UK government's efforts to fight this hatred of Jews? Would that be so hard? What is the loss there?

I have no problem with the UK government fighting any racial hatred.

But not one form at the expense of another.

A hate crime is a hate crime.

How does "at the expense of another" come into the OP?

[Chicog]

Who said it did?

[Jingthing]

It's pretty "funny" (not ha ha funny) to observe the energy being put into denial here of the problem of antisemitism in the UK. If I read a report about increased hate incidents against a small minority of people in Brazil, my reaction would be, that's too bad, I hope they can be protected better, not:

It's a scam!

It's a conspiracy!

It's not real!

It seems to me, because this is about Jews ... we get this ridiculous energy being put into denial.

Anyway, I'm so happy there is an Israel because there needs to be a strong nation for Jews who choose to move there for either positive or negative reasons ... as history has proven so many times, antisemitism is eternal (as long as there are any Jews).

Edited February 9, 2015 by Jingthing

[Choctastic]

British Prime Minister David Cameron said Monday that the lawmakers’ report was “hugely important,” Reuters reported. “No disagreements over foreign policy or politics can ever be allowed to justify anti-Semitism or any other form of racism, prejudice or extremism,” he was quoted as saying.

Unless you are UK MP George Galloway, beaten in the street by an Israeli.

[Jingthing]

British Prime Minister David Cameron said Monday that the lawmakers’ report was “hugely important,” Reuters reported. “No disagreements over foreign policy or politics can ever be allowed to justify anti-Semitism or any other form of racism, prejudice or extremism,” he was quoted as saying.

Unless you are UK MP George Galloway, beaten in the street by an Israeli.

Like he hasn't been incredibly provocative in his "anti-Zionist" rhetoric, his "Israel free zone" etc.? Of course there is no justification for violence against him or anybody, but his case is specific to him because his rhetoric is so vile, and indeed inspires hatred against British Jews.

[metisdead]

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