Restaurant service + VAT added to your bill, do you hate it? A reason to avoid this restaurant?

[thefactoryoutlet]

Hello,

I wonder if many feel like me, that it is plain stupid to add service + vat to restaurant bills ?

Do you mainly select restaurants where you know that the price that you will pay is the one written on the menu ?

Do you also think that restaurant owners are totally stupid to do this when they could just add few baht to every dish and the menu and write FREE SERVICE NO VAT ?

Most restaurant owners are not rocket scientists and do this job because there is not many things that they could do, but really, it is not complicated to understand that customers feel cheater when they do not pay the price written on the menu ?

Bye.

[ukrules]

I tend to go to places where I know the foods good, I'm not too bothered about the invoice.

I'm a repeat customer if the food is good regardless of the price.

[MZurf]

I don't like the ++ at all, and especially the service charge. I generally avoid places that have them but if I crave the food there I won't let it stop me.

[georgegeorgia]

I tend to avoid these places..but did splurge last week at S&P in Tukcom ..

[Rooo]

Trolling post & reply quoting it removed.

[daveAustin]

Consider it the tip.

[KittenKong]

I have nothing against VAT and service charges as long as they form part of the advertised price. To advertise a thing on a menu or sign at x and then add an obligatory y and z to the bill is simple fraud.

For example: the Hilton advertises its prices net, which is entirely correct. But the Amari advertises them as ++, which would be a criminal offence in most civilised countries. Other places don't even mention the ++ at all until you get the bill, which is even worse.

[StefanBBK]

It is the US system. There everything is plus. In Europe all Extras are included. I am not fussy about that, as long as I know before.

Agree that most Restaurant owners are not Rocket Scientists (literally), but by no means they are less intelligent then any other owner of small businesses. Most do the job, own and manage restaurants because they like it and are good at it. I am sure running a restaurant is not the only thing they can do well.

There are exertions.

[Briggsy]

Kitten Kong has it right. It is all about being reasonable to the customer.

Ambushing them at the end with an previously unrevealed extra 20% on the bill is not reasonable.

I believe it is mainly international hotel restaurants that charge service and tax on top. I cannot recall other places doing it but I am sure there must be some.

[bkkjames]

OP, you could always stay home, have your mommy noodles and toast, then drop a 5 baht tip on the table when finished...

[p_brownstone]

Under Revenue Department regulations any Vendor registered for VAT must give a Receipt which clearly shows - separately - the amount of VAT paid on the transaction, so it would be illegal to give a receipt showing just the Nett price.

Service Charge is, I agree, confusing in many instances however.

Patrick

[robblok]

OP, you could always stay home, have your mommy noodles and toast, then drop a 5 baht tip on the table when finished...

I think its a bit crazy too, its not rocket science to make the prices included.

It won't make me avoid places if i feel the price is fair for the service offered. But if you advertise with a price then that should be the price you are paying. I see it as a scam.

[hanno]

Common practice in this part of the world (same in Vietnam and Cambodia) so why get hung up about it? What annoys me when restaurants/hotels charge service charge but do not pass it on to the staff.

[robblok]

Common practice in this part of the world (same in Vietnam and Cambodia) so why get hung up about it? What annoys me when restaurants/hotels charge service charge but do not pass it on to the staff.

If its clearly stated and they don't advertise the prices without mentioning it I won't get hung up. However if they have a big sign saying this price.. and no mention of service and vat and only in the restaurant does it become clear you have to pay it i feel cheated.

Its not surprising this comes from the US where shady deals are more prevalent and consumer protection is less as in other parts of the civilized world. So I can see why Americans don't mind, they are used to it.

[Eliot Rosewater]

Consider it the tip.

Is it a tip for the service staff or does the owner/manager pocket it?

If it is for the service staff; have they done a job good enough to earn their 10%? If not, is that fair that you are "forced" to give a tip? Somewhat defeats the "purpose" of a tip, doesn't it?

[Ulysses G.]

I don't like the ++ at all, and especially the service charge. I generally avoid places that have them but if I crave the food there I won't let it stop me.

Me too, but as soon as I get even a little bored with a ++ place, I will stop going there.

[uptheos]

OP, you could always stay home, have your mommy noodles and toast, then drop a 5 baht tip on the table when finished...

I think its a bit crazy too, its not rocket science to make the prices included.

It won't make me avoid places if i feel the price is fair for the service offered. But if you advertise with a price then that should be the price you are paying. I see it as a scam.

I agree, but it's a worldwide scam and less in Thailand.

[Beetlejuice]

We could also argue about the worldwide age old practices by retailers of dropping a digit from the price of items to make them appear cheaper, such as, 799 baht instead of 800 baht or adding on those irritating little gold 50 Satang coins discretely to the price of items in order to squeeze the maximum amounts of money from customers.

Then there are the sneaky ways that drink and food retailers reduce the sizes of their products in the hope that no one will notice, such as the cans of soda pop that suddenly decreased from 330mls to 325ml and so on. Since the Jurassic period companies have been up to all kinds of cons and tricks in order to bluff customers they are getting something cheaper.

I too have been taken in by restaurants that describe extra costs such as exclusive of VAT or service changes an extra 7% in micro print placed at the bottom of menus and failed to notice, and yes, I do hate it when that happens. But as they say; once bitten twice shy, than it`s up to the customers whether or not they return to those establishments.

Edited February 11, 2015 by Beetlejuice

[smokie36]

++ equals zero tipping.

I expect it in fancy restaurants and hotels across Bangkok but when its in a pub it irritates me and I won't visit a second time.

[Rajhulmaheesh]

Most restaurant owners are not rocket scientists and do this job because there is not many things that they could do, but really, it is not complicated to understand that customers feel cheater when they do not pay the price written on the menu ?

This is really funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And im sure it was meant as a compliment!

Edited February 11, 2015 by Rajhulmaheesh

[bill1369]

As an American, I'm not adverse to tipping. But like many others have mentioned, I don't like the surprise of added charges that are unspecified on the menu - so ++ is fine with me. It's the quality of food and service that brings me back to a restaurant, although I'd never go back to a bar that added service charge (hotels excluded as I know every hotel adds the charge + tax). However, what always lurks in my mind is whether the servers actually divide up the service charge or if the owner simply pockets another 10%.

[givenall]

Zero tip if I see this

[HooHaa]

I have nothing against VAT and service charges as long as they form part of the advertised price. To advertise a thing on a menu or sign at x and then add an obligatory y and z to the bill is simple fraud.

For example: the Hilton advertises its prices net, which is entirely correct. But the Amari advertises them as ++, which would be a criminal offence in most civilised countries. Other places don't even mention the ++ at all until you get the bill, which is even worse.

not at all true.

where i came from there was a liquor tax, a vat or goods and services tax, and the restaurant had the ability to implement a service charge, usually 10 percent, at the discretion of management, usually with parties of 10 or over.

[jspill]

Can understand this for individual dishes in a high end place with good service 100% of the time, but they even do it for self service buffets, Bourbon Street restauarant (US owned) does this http://afarangabroad.com/2015/01/service-charge-bangkok.html

For those buffets there's zero interaction with staff. Also some bars add 17% onto the prominently advertised happy hour price of a beer...

[MZurf]

Zero tip if I see this

Exactly. Why would you want to pay tip twice? The service charge is supposed to be for the staff. But why do they charge a service charge at all - it's ridiculous. Why not a service charge in the bank, or in a shoe store? You have the exact same interaction there with staff as you have in a restaurant. Is it because food is involved and we're supposed to feel guilty that any other than our moms bring it to us???

[KittenKong]

I have nothing against VAT and service charges as long as they form part of the advertised price. To advertise a thing on a menu or sign at x and then add an obligatory y and z to the bill is simple fraud.

For example: the Hilton advertises its prices net, which is entirely correct. But the Amari advertises them as ++, which would be a criminal offence in most civilised countries. Other places don't even mention the ++ at all until you get the bill, which is even worse.

not at all true.

where i came from there was a liquor tax, a vat or goods and services tax, and the restaurant had the ability to implement a service charge, usually 10 percent, at the discretion of management, usually with parties of 10 or over.

As I said, in most civilised countries it would be illegal not to include these taxes in the advertised price.

That would include more or less the whole of the Europe, for example.

Your country is presumably one of the exceptions.

[mogandave]

It is the US system.

Not as far as I know. The tip generally optional and not added to the bill.

Also, the US has no VAT, although there are sales taxes in most states.

[samuibeachcomber]

I still go restaurants that add a service charge but i do remember not to tip.