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BURNING ISSUE
Will new railway projects contribute to well being of Thais?
SASITHORN ONGDEE

BANGKOK: -- It's good that the government is planning to build many dual-track railway routes connecting Thailand with other Asean countries. This should certainly help boost trade and investment, which should in the long run translate to Thai people's well being.

This explains why the government of Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha has been engaged with powerful countries to handle railway projects.

First, Thailand made a deal with China to build two high-speed railway lines with a combined length of 867 kilometres from Nong Khai to Map Ta Phut via Kaeng Khoi in Saraburi to Bangkok and from Bangkok to Kaeng Khoi. This project should cost about Bt400 billion.

The two governments are meeting again in Beijing from Wednesday until tomorrow, and the end result is expected to be a new investment model for the project.

The second deal is the three routes along the East-West and North-South economic corridors, which is likely to be handed over to Japan, especially since the two countries signed a memorandum of intent for collaboration during Prayut's recent visit. This is also expected to be a high-speed railway.

Also, Germany recently expressed interest in the construction of a dual-track railroad with a 1.435-metre gauge for the Bangkok to Hua Hin route. Except in this case, it would be a normal-speed train.

Now the question is won't the cost of maintenance rise if Thailand has different railway systems and different types of train carriages?

This is already happening in Bangkok and its surrounding areas where the three metro lines feature three different technologies and each is run separately by the MRT, the BTS and the Airport Rail Link.

Could it be possible for the government to opt for a common design of carriages for commuter or metro trains?

If it is possible to design a train carriage that can be run on different technologies, like one that can run on the technology from China, Japan and Germany, then investors can certainly be lured to spend on an assembly plant of these carriages in the country. This way, Thailand can save maintenance costs as well as create jobs and open the door to technology transfer.

Interestingly, professors from Chulalongkorn University's Faculty of Engineering recently held a press conference to express concern that this new railway link with neighbouring countries might backfire and create more losses rather than gains. Clearly, they do not want to see the country becoming a regional hub while only receiving small amounts in toll fees.

Perhaps, these concerns can be addressed if the bodies in charge can be reformed before these new routes are opened and the public is provided with clear strategy outlines.

Besides, China has already offered to take over as route operator.

Now the question is what happens in the future, as the structure of the regulatory bodies and related regulations still remain unclear? How will Thai railway operators compete with foreign companies?

The railway department is still undergoing public hearing and so far, nothing is clear as to who will be the regulatory body for checking the standards of railway construction.

Many previous governments tended to prefer focusing on the construction of railways, instead of creating jobs, introducing a new management system and updating rules and regulations.

Now, it remains to be seen if this military-led government can do things in a different way.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Will-new-railway-projects-contribute-to-well-being-30253969.html


-- The Nation 2015-02-13

[PatOngo]

"Now the question is won't the cost of maintenance rise if Thailand has different railway systems and different types of train carriages?"

Why would it? Maintainance has never been an issue in the past. Maintainance is a foreign concept.

[ramrod711]

Also, Germany recently expressed interest in the construction of a dual-track railroad with a 1.435-metre gauge for the Bangkok to Hua Hin route. Except in this case, it would be a normal-speed train.

They want to be a bit cautious about this, the Germans expect to be paid when they build something, airplanes may be seized.

[NongKhaiKid]

I'm sure the ' well being ' of SOME Thais will benefit considerably.

[chainarong]

The obvious course to take is you try to run any operation with compatibility , so all your rolling stock, signalling, automation are the same brand or similar, most of OZ locos are either EMD(GM) or GE all compatible for multi coupling, all the alliance (monkey grip) couplers are the same and at the same height, so spare parts and rolling stock are interchangeable, for a new standard gage rail system such as Thailand's, one design fits all , except on HST the per-way and rolling stock are special, the high cost of maintenance is the root of all evil and it is doubtful that proper procedures will still be getting carried out after first six months, although having said that Thailand runs airports which as we know require high standards, so you can be surprised.

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The obvious course to take is you try to run any operation with compatibility , so all your rolling stock, signalling, automation are the same brand or similar, most of OZ locos are either EMD(GM) or GE all compatible for multi coupling, all the alliance (monkey grip) couplers are the same and at the same height, so spare parts and rolling stock are interchangeable, for a new standard gage rail system such as Thailand's, one design fits all , except on HST the per-way and rolling stock are special, the high cost of maintenance is the root of all evil and it is doubtful that proper procedures will still be getting carried out after first six months, although having said that Thailand runs airports which as we know require high standards, so you can be surprised. width=32 alt=coffee1.gif>

Mate I agree with what you are saying , but the more they use different manufacturers the more back handers and perks coming in, Sad fact of life here, They used two different fastening systems on the same railway on a job nearby which is unheard of,These projects will be "Snouts in the Trough" time for many , all be falling over themselves to make a ffortune

Edited February 13, 2015 by ExPratt

[DonaldBattles]

Maybe the Germans will insist on a deposit of of two B737-400 ER before that start another project.

[Thailand]

I am sure some bank accounts will be swelled considerably, definitely contributing to the well being of some select Thai's and even their Asian business partners.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Thailand

[toybits]

Yes! Of Course! The Right Kind of Thai - that is.....

[trogers]

More rail crossings?

[yellowboat]

Met few Thais who take an interest outside of Thailand. There are many opportunities for them in Cambodia and other near by countries. Most I have met who live on the boarders rarely cross.

Perhaps with an influx of people from outside, they will become curious.

[gandalf12]

Will do nothing for the "happiness" of the Thai people. It is needed but not everything translates into people happiness

[ExPratt]

Its an exercise to benefit large Construction companies and members of the Government and have a carve up of Tax-payers money (Thats where it will come from in the end). If they were concerned about the Thai peoples well being then they would use the Railways money to build schools and hospitals and train doctors , nurses and teachers

[MiKT]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The obvious course to take is you try to run any operation with compatibility , so all your rolling stock, signalling, automation are the same brand or similar, most of OZ locos are either EMD(GM) or GE all compatible for multi coupling, all the alliance (monkey grip) couplers are the same and at the same height, so spare parts and rolling stock are interchangeable, for a new standard gage rail system such as Thailand's, one design fits all , except on HST the per-way and rolling stock are special, the high cost of maintenance is the root of all evil and it is doubtful that proper procedures will still be getting carried out after first six months, although having said that Thailand runs airports which as we know require high standards, so you can be surprised. width=32 alt=coffee1.gif>

Mate I agree with what you are saying , but the more they use different manufacturers the more back handers and perks coming in, Sad fact of life here, They used two different fastening systems on the same railway on a job nearby which is unheard of,These projects will be "Snouts in the Trough" time for many , all be falling over themselves to make a ffortune

Actually the BTS and Blue Line underground are basically the same and the same trains can run on both systems. In fact the test train for the Blue line was a BTS train.

Most of the changes of between the rolling stock were purely cosmetic for the Siemens trains and the Chinese built trains are not very different.

Similar rolling stock utilising a 3rd rail system should be able to run on the Purple line, although the initial stock will be Japanese.

All do/will use similar comms, signalling, power supplies, rails, etc (maybe even with different fastners on the same line - which I fully agree is not good practice).

The Airport link uses an overhead catenary system, allowing higher speed trains, which will be good if they ever do extend the system around to Rayong, although the currently planned rout via Chachoengsao seems to me to be unnecessarily long and complicated. Would be good if they actually purchased a few spares, what a fiasco. The current rulers should get a grip of SRT if they are serious about corruption - won't happen, old palls act.

but your next post seems a bit odd for a railwayman. Railways have been contributing to the benefit of human kind since 1758.

Thailand is just lagging behind.

The design of the BTS was limited by the attitudes of the time "we don't want a common peoples railway outside our school" kind of thing (unlike Singapore where the top schools insisted on having stations outside the schools) but the BTS system (especially with addition of walkways) and the Blue Line have really improved the life of people in central Bangkok. However, I don't think that many people will be happy with the f,,,, stupid design of the Purple Line stations with split concourses. I would guess your are dead right about perks, etc. in this case.

[ExPratt]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

The obvious course to take is you try to run any operation with compatibility , so all your rolling stock, signalling, automation are the same brand or similar, most of OZ locos are either EMD(GM) or GE all compatible for multi coupling, all the alliance (monkey grip) couplers are the same and at the same height, so spare parts and rolling stock are interchangeable, for a new standard gage rail system such as Thailand's, one design fits all , except on HST the per-way and rolling stock are special, the high cost of maintenance is the root of all evil and it is doubtful that proper procedures will still be getting carried out after first six months, although having said that Thailand runs airports which as we know require high standards, so you can be surprised. width=32 alt=coffee1.gif>

Mate I agree with what you are saying , but the more they use different manufacturers the more back handers and perks coming in, Sad fact of life here, They used two different fastening systems on the same railway on a job nearby which is unheard of,These projects will be "Snouts in the Trough" time for many , all be falling over themselves to make a ffortune

Actually the BTS and Blue Line underground are basically the same and the same trains can run on both systems. In fact the test train for the Blue line was a BTS train.

Most of the changes of between the rolling stock were purely cosmetic for the Siemens trains and the Chinese built trains are not very different.

Similar rolling stock utilising a 3rd rail system should be able to run on the Purple line, although the initial stock will be Japanese.

All do/will use similar comms, signalling, power supplies, rails, etc (maybe even with different fastners on the same line - which I fully agree is not good practice).

The Airport link uses an overhead catenary system, allowing higher speed trains, which will be good if they ever do extend the system around to Rayong, although the currently planned rout via Chachoengsao seems to me to be unnecessarily long and complicated. Would be good if they actually purchased a few spares, what a fiasco. The current rulers should get a grip of SRT if they are serious about corruption - won't happen, old palls act.

but your next post seems a bit odd for a railwayman. Railways have been contributing to the benefit of human kind since 1758.

Thailand is just lagging behind.

The design of the BTS was limited by the attitudes of the time "we don't want a common peoples railway outside our school" kind of thing (unlike Singapore where the top schools insisted on having stations outside the schools) but the BTS system (especially with addition of walkways) and the Blue Line have really improved the life of people in central Bangkok. However, I don't think that many people will be happy with the f,,,, stupid design of the Purple Line stations with split concourses. I would guess your are dead right about perks, etc. in this case.

Hello mate , was talking to your buddy the other week

What Ive seen is , yes, the rolling stock is compatible with different track systems but they (Malaysia) tend to use different components, The 2t track 350ks had half Vossloh and half Pandrol fastening systems, hence half with Vossloh half with Pandrol fast clip sleepers

Obviously Railways can be good for a country , Taiwan for instance , they could afford it and it was a decent length and practical to use it rather than fly or drive. But when you see the money hurled at these Mega projects in countries where they people are living hand to mouth , where the railway will make little difference to normal people it leaves a bad taste. Ive got my snout in the trough like the rest of us , I suppose , but the obscene amount of money being spent of these projects doesn't really give back what it takes out, 2T project 5B usd, Klang valley Metro 15B usd

Malaysia may be a special case, but Thailand look like they are going that way , High speeds yo Pattaya and Hua Hin ? I think its nonsense and I dont think many ordinary people realize how much money these projects burn

Edited February 13, 2015 by ExPratt

[trogers]

Hi-speed? I have yet to see a formula one race car being operated like a motor bus.

[dominique355]

First of all, I found it quite interesting that these multi billion baht projects have been assigned with a bidding procedure, without a EIA and without any contribution from the public. Wasn't that what the Yiungluck government did and was heavily criticized for?

The Nong Kai to Ma Ta Put line seems to be for freight trains, not so much for passenger. It bypasses Bangkok (?). While it is certainly commendable to put the freight on railway to have less heavy trucks destroying the roads and motorways, how does the government plan to actually bring people to use the train rather than the existing trucks? Will there be a competition between train and road? Under the present conditions the train will lose, guaranteed. And as a result the train and tracks will be just another ruin, but a 400 billion baht ruin.

The government needs to take additional steps to make sure the train will actually be used. Increase the tax on trucks, limit their speed (and enforce it), assign the trucks one lane on the motorway, not 3 like today. This will make sure the train and the trucks can compete with equal chances. But will the truck drivers and logistics company request compensation? Probably.

What will happen and the end of the railway tracks? Will there be an infrastructure to load and unload, store, distribute etc.?

The other railway project from Bangkok to Hua Hin and the South could be a success if some criteria will be met. A high speed train linking Bangkok (including the airports) to popular tourist destinations could be very popular, but I have never seen places like Phuket being included. Why?

Also the train needs to be High Speed in order to compete with the planes. HS meaning 300 km/h.

[trogers]

First of all, I found it quite interesting that these multi billion baht projects have been assigned with a bidding procedure, without a EIA and without any contribution from the public. Wasn't that what the Yiungluck government did and was heavily criticized for?

The Nong Kai to Ma Ta Put line seems to be for freight trains, not so much for passenger. It bypasses Bangkok (?). While it is certainly commendable to put the freight on railway to have less heavy trucks destroying the roads and motorways, how does the government plan to actually bring people to use the train rather than the existing trucks? Will there be a competition between train and road? Under the present conditions the train will lose, guaranteed. And as a result the train and tracks will be just another ruin, but a 400 billion baht ruin.

The government needs to take additional steps to make sure the train will actually be used. Increase the tax on trucks, limit their speed (and enforce it), assign the trucks one lane on the motorway, not 3 like today. This will make sure the train and the trucks can compete with equal chances. But will the truck drivers and logistics company request compensation? Probably.

What will happen and the end of the railway tracks? Will there be an infrastructure to load and unload, store, distribute etc.?

The other railway project from Bangkok to Hua Hin and the South could be a success if some criteria will be met. A high speed train linking Bangkok (including the airports) to popular tourist destinations could be very popular, but I have never seen places like Phuket being included. Why?

Also the train needs to be High Speed in order to compete with the planes. HS meaning 300 km/h.

God forbids! What will happen to the train from having a series of rail bolts stolen?