Services, prayers for 3 fatally shot in North Carolina

[webfact]

Services, prayers for 3 fatally shot in North Carolina
EMERY P. DALESIO, Associated Press

RALEIGH, North Carolina (AP) — More than 5,000 people gathered for funeral and prayer services Thursday for three young adults gunned down in what police call a long-running dispute over parking spaces.

The crowd was so large it had to be moved from a mosque to a nearby university athletic field. The deaths of a newlywed Muslim couple and the wife's sister had quickly gained international attention, with some questioning whether the violence had some connection to their faith.

Before the prayer service, relatives viewed the victims' bodies in a small building apart from one of Raleigh's largest mosques, where the families have long been members. The service then moved across the street to the fields owned by North Carolina State University, where two victims had graduated and one was a student.

Deah Shaddy Barakat, 23; his wife, Yusor Mohammad Abu-Salha, 21; and her sister Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha, 19, were found dead Tuesday at the newlywed couple's home near the University of North Carolina-Chapel Hill campus. Barakat attended graduate school there; his wife had planned to join him.

Those gathered Thursday — N.C. State police estimated a crowd of 5,500 — grappled with questions about whether the violence had some connection to their Muslim faith. The father of the two slain women says hatred of Muslims might explain why the dispute erupted into death. Officials have said they're still investigating any possibilities the crime was hate-motivated.

"We are definitely certain that our daughters were targeted for their religion," the women's father, Mohammad Yousif Abu-Salha, told The Associated Press on Thursday. "This is a moment of truth. I have just viewed their bodies."

Charged with three counts of first-degree murder is Craig Stephen Hicks, 46, who has described himself as a "gun toting" atheist. Neighbors describe him as angry and confrontational. His ex-wife said he was obsessed with the 1993 shooting-rampage movie "Falling Down" and showed "no compassion at all" for other people.

His current wife, Karen Hicks, said that her husband "champions the rights of others" and that the killings "had nothing do with religion or the victims' faith." She then issued another brief statement, saying she's divorcing him.

The newlywed wife's father said his daughter "felt that he was hateful and he did not like them, who they were and the way they looked."

Mohammad Yousif Abu-Salha also said he had urged law enforcement to look beyond their explanation of the parking spat in the complex where two of the victims and the suspect lived.

"This is not a parking dispute," he said. "These children were executed with shots in the back of the head." Police have said they are not commenting on evidence in the case, including manner of death.

"We understand the concerns about the possibility that this was hate-motivated, and we will exhaust every lead to determine if that is the case," Chapel Hill police Chief Chris Blue said in an email Wednesday.

Several people who knew the victims spoke about them at a Wednesday night vigil, describing selflessness and kindness.

Barakat and wife Abu-Salha were newlyweds who helped the homeless and raised money to help Syrian refugees in Turkey. They met while helping to run the Muslim Student Association at N.C. State before he began pursuing an advanced degree in dentistry at UNC. Yusor Mohammad Abu-Salha, who graduated in December, planned to join him at dentistry school in the fall.

Her sister was visiting them Tuesday from Raleigh, where she studied design at N.C. State.

Hicks had less success. His wife said Hicks, unemployed and driving a 15-year-old car, had been studying to become a paralegal.

A gun rights advocate with a concealed weapons permit, Hicks often complained about organized religion on Facebook. "Some call me a gun toting Liberal, others call me an open-minded Conservative," Hicks wrote.
___

Associated Press writers Michael Biesecker in Raleigh, Allen G. Breed in Chapel Hill, Jonathan Drew in Durham and Eric Tucker in Washington contributed.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-02-13

[Suradit69]

His current wife, Karen Hicks, said that her husband "champions the rights of others" and that the killings "had nothing do with religion or the victims' faith." She then issued another brief statement, saying she's divorcing him.

Apparently being married to "a gun-toting atheist" who "champions the rights of others" was too much of a burden.

[Friendly Stranger]

Studying to be become a paralegal or paratrooper?

No joke, this is senseless. Whatever the reason for this "Hick" to do what he did only he knows..

RIP young people.

[dean in bangkok]

Whether this is a religious hate crime or not will be determined by the authorities. However the Muslim community are quick and loud to claim it as such. How different it is when the tragedy hits close to home. Where was the opposition of this community to the murders of innocent hostages by ISIS ? It is time for these Muslim communities to start being loud and clear about where they stand on this issue. By their silence it can only be determined they support the atrocities of their Muslim brothers.

[dean in bangkok]

Whether this is a religious hate crime or not will be determined by the authorities. However the Muslim community are quick and loud to claim it as such. How different it is when the tragedy hits close to home. Where was the opposition of this community to the murders of innocent hostages by ISIS ? It is time for these Muslim communities to start being loud and clear about where they stand on this issue. By their silence it can only be determined they support the atrocities of their Muslim brothers.

[Steely Dan]

The authorities and press seem all too willing to categorize this as a hate crime based on the religion of the victims. I did read that no evidence of such views was found on the Facebook page of the murderer, which I would have strongly suspected to be there if the murderer was motivated by religious hatred.

It is as if the press and authorities are as keen to pin this as a religiously aggravated crime whilst they seem anxious to do anything but when the roles are reversed.

[samran]

Whether this is a religious hate crime or not will be determined by the authorities. However the Muslim community are quick and loud to claim it as such. How different it is when the tragedy hits close to home. Where was the opposition of this community to the murders of innocent hostages by ISIS ? It is time for these Muslim communities to start being loud and clear about where they stand on this issue. By their silence it can only be determined they support the atrocities of their Muslim brothers.

wow. Second post. Wonder who you really are?

Time and place for every comment. This wasn't for yours.

RIP those three people.

[Jingthing]

I am aware of these parking shortage and noise issues in lower end housing complexes in the American South. It can get very tense especially when there are cross cultural / race differences in play as well, as there often are. Mix it with guns and these incidents happen. The only reason this is international news is that the victims happened to be Muslim and the rage man is white. It's entirely possible, "atheist" or not that the killer is bigoted towards Muslims and others ... being an "atheist" doesn't preclude that. I agree the inflation to hate crime level will be a stretch. It certainly wasn't a terrorism event. That he had specific personal beefs with these victims and a history of these beefs appears to be credible.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Jingthing

[Paulc01]

Whether this is a religious hate crime or not will be determined by the authorities. However the Muslim community are quick and loud to claim it as such. How different it is when the tragedy hits close to home. Where was the opposition of this community to the murders of innocent hostages by ISIS ? It is time for these Muslim communities to start being loud and clear about where they stand on this issue. By their silence it can only be determined they support the atrocities of their Muslim brothers.

wow. Second post. Wonder who you really are?

Time and place for every comment. This wasn't for yours.

RIP those three people.

Of course it is the place. Two thirds of the OP is devoted to claims of the family that this was a hate crime. The OP introduced the idea and dwells on it. Comments replying to it are absolutely appropriate.

[Jingthing]

Whether this is a religious hate crime or not will be determined by the authorities. However the Muslim community are quick and loud to claim it as such. How different it is when the tragedy hits close to home. Where was the opposition of this community to the murders of innocent hostages by ISIS ? It is time for these Muslim communities to start being loud and clear about where they stand on this issue. By their silence it can only be determined they support the atrocities of their Muslim brothers.

wow. Second post. Wonder who you really are?

Time and place for every comment. This wasn't for yours.

RIP those three people.

Of course it is the place. Two thirds of the OP is devoted to claims of the family that this was a hate crime. The OP introduced the idea and dwells on it. Comments replying to it are absolutely appropriate.

I don't think the international Muslim response to Islamic Jihadist terrorism is really on topic here either. But as far as speculation about the politics of this tragedy in particular, that seems OK to me ... it's a controversial news event and open to public discussion. Also Islamophobia in the U.S., it does exist, it's likely it was a factor in this crime but it seems highly doubtful that was the only or primary motivation there.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Jingthing

[dean in bangkok]

Whether this is a religious hate crime or not will be determined by the authorities. However the Muslim community are quick and loud to claim it as such. How different it is when the tragedy hits close to home. Where was the opposition of this community to the murders of innocent hostages by ISIS ? It is time for these Muslim communities to start being loud and clear about where they stand on this issue. By their silence it can only be determined they support the atrocities of their Muslim brothers.

wow. Second post. Wonder who you really are?

Time and place for every comment. This wasn't for yours.

RIP those three people.

Of course it is the place. Two thirds of the OP is devoted to claims of the family that this was a hate crime. The OP introduced the idea and dwells on it. Comments replying to it are absolutely appropriate.

I don't think the international Muslim response to Islamic Jihadist terrorism is really on topic here either. But as far as speculation about the politics of this tragedy in particular, that seems OK to me ... it's a controversial news event and open to public discussion. Also Islamophobia in the U.S., it does exist, it's likely it was a factor in this crime but it seems highly doubtful that was the only or primary motivation there.

[dean in bangkok]

Wow Samran. I wonder who you really are ? I didn't realize that this forum was exclusive for new members. Yes RIP to all those innocent hostages killed in the name of Islam for being Infidels.

Next time you want me to write you for permission to write a post?

[GentlemanJim]

Services, prayers for 3 fatally shot in North Carolina

I am sure they would much rather have had the next 50 years alive than a bunch of prayers. Not a consolation really is it?

[Jingthing]

Services, prayers for 3 fatally shot in North Carolina

I am sure they would much rather have had the next 50 years alive than a bunch of prayers. Not a consolation really is it?

Sure of course, but it's a nice gesture from the community to show support for the families and also frankly to show opposition to targeting Muslims for hate crimes, even though I am doubtful this really was actually such a hate crime.

[Jay Sata]

The USA answer to guns crimes such as this is always prayers.

Taking guns away might be a better idea.

[Steely Dan]

The USA answer to guns crimes such as this is always prayers.

Taking guns away might be a better idea.

If, as is looking likely, an anti-Muslim hate crime looks doubtful then I guess gun control is always a fallback.

[Jingthing]

My understanding is he's probably going to get the death penalty if found guilty of murder either way, whether hate crime elevation is charged or not. So this I suppose becomes both a political and practical decision for the prosecutors about whether it makes sense to do that. It seems the families want that ... but I don't think they should have the power to influence that kind of detail.

Edited February 13, 2015 by Jingthing

[CMNightRider]

The USA answer to guns crimes such as this is always prayers.

Taking guns away might be a better idea.

Take guns away from who? If you are suggesting taking guns away from over 90 million lawful gun owners in America, you are having a bad dream. My advise, take a nap.

[up-country_sinclair]

I am doubtful this really was actually such a hate crime.

Really?

Let's imagine the exact same set of circumstances but the victims were Jewish.

I'm confident it would then labeled an anti-semitic (hatred of Jews) HATE CRIME. And how anyone who denied this FACT was an Israel demonizing ANTI-SEMITE.

[Jingthing]

Another thing to consider here is we're talking about the American South.

I can tell you in the American South the most demonized "religious" group you can be associated with is: ATHEISM.

That is a deeply religious, mostly Christian region of course, but people of ANY faith are respected much more than people who are open about having NO FAITH.

The killer obviously lost the plot and he will pay for his murders but I reckon the alienation of being an atheist in the south may have been a factor in his psychological stress.

I noticed he is being demonized in the media because of his atheism, openly suggesting a linkage between atheism and evil.

He deserves to be demonized of course for being a MURDERER, but NOT for being an atheist!

I read now there will be an investigation about whether this was really an anti-Muslim hate crime specifically, and well there should be ... but to blow this up for people to think Muslims should really be worried about being hunted and murdered in the USA just for being Muslim ... no, absolutely not, that is not the situation at all.

Overall, America remains a good and safe place for people of all faiths ... but there is little doubt being an out atheist is stigmatized in some regions.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[Lissos]

Where was the opposition of this community to the murders of innocent hostages by ISIS ?

Well it was an event that was far more closer to home for them and thus will have moved people to come out of their houses.

It is the same for most racial and ideological groups, that if something happens in our own backyard to one (or more) our own kind (racial or idelogical group) it just feels far more real and taken personally than any events taking place 1000s of miles away elsewhere n the world.

[F430murci]

That guys is a POS. Unfortunately, there are people in the world like him. He has been arrested and he will be dealt with. Wish the same could be said for the nut jobs running around in the Middle East committing horrific crimes.

[Jingthing]

More on the atheism angle.

No, Virginia, atheists do not have to answer for these crimes.

There is no international atheist movement dedicated to murdering Muslims.

This was really just ONE MAN. Not about an ideology.

But connecting the killings in any way to atheism rests on a dangerous underlying principle.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/02/13/no-atheism-does-not-need-a-moment-of-reckoning/

[Jingthing]

Some global Islamic political leaders are shamefully spinning this as a "terrorist" attack. But it clearly isn't. Terrorism has political goals. The murderer didn't have political goals. It's also being inflamed by demagogues from the Palestinian region because the murder victims happen to have Palestinian Arab backgrounds, as if this is some kind of terror attack related to the Palestinian conflict as if they were specifically targeted because of that. Of course it isn't and they weren't.

That said, while clearly not "terrorism" it may possibly meet the legal definition of "hate crime" in some U.S. jurisdictions, depending of course on what is discovered in the investigation as to the motivations and history of the conflict between the murderer and his victims.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/02/13/turkeys-erdogan-to-obama-wheres-the-outrage-about-chapel-hill-shootings/

His comments Thursday tapped into a wider international outcry about the response to the shooting: Online, the Twitter hashtag #muslimlivesmattersoon spread all around the world, while Al-Azhar, a renowned center for Islamic learning in Egypt, released a statement that condemned what it described as a "cowardly terrorist act."

.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Jingthing

[Paulc01]

An argument over a parking place leads to a shooting by a Rachel Maddow fan and the Islamic world claims it's a hate crime?

[Morch]

Palestinians want to join investigation of Chapel Hill shootingsThe FBI has opened an inquiry into the shootings of three young Muslims in Chapel Hill, N.C., a move that followed multiple calls this week for authorities to investigate the violence as a hate crime. And Palestinian officials are asking to join the investigation, saying that the victims were of Palestinian descent.

Police are investigating the shootings of three people — newlyweds Deah Barakat, 23, and Yusor Mohammad Abu-Salha, 21, and her sister, Razan Mohammad Abu-Salha, 19 — on Tuesday afternoon at a housing complex near the University of North Carolina.

On Friday, President Obama issued a statement on “the brutal and outrageous murders,” saying that the FBI would look to see if federal laws were broken during the shooting.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/02/13/fbi-opens-inquiry-into-chapel-hill-shootings/

[Jingthing]

I don't see any logical reason why the FBI will need any foreign assistance in this investigation. The Palestinian request clearly political grandstanding. When the results are gathered, the Palestinian officials can read it about it in the press ... like everyone else!

Edited February 15, 2015 by Jingthing

[Steely Dan]

An argument over a parking place leads to a shooting by a Rachel Maddow fan and the Islamic world claims it's a hate crime?

Well of course the moral relativists will try for all they are worth to paint this as an anti muslim hate crime, for one thing they are so short of ammunition. The usual agitators and professional grievance mongers such as CAIR are only too quick to try to make political capital out of these murders, as was the Turkish president.

If the murder was a white supremacist or someone overtly anti Islam who doubts the details would have been leaked to the press by now? The press, who would have in turn fallen over themselves to publish the details as soon as possible.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Steely Dan

[Credo]

I can't get my head around why there is such a big fuss and public demonstrations over these 3 that were killed in a dispute over a parking space, but almost no fuss over the beheading of a number of people over absolutely nothing.

[Steely Dan]

Some global Islamic political leaders are shamefully spinning this as a "terrorist" attack. But it clearly isn't. Terrorism has political goals. The murderer didn't have political goals. It's also being inflamed by demagogues from the Palestinian region because the murder victims happen to have Palestinian Arab backgrounds, as if this is some kind of terror attack related to the Palestinian conflict as if they were specifically targeted because of that. Of course it isn't and they weren't.

That said, while clearly not "terrorism" it may possibly meet the legal definition of "hate crime" in some U.S. jurisdictions, depending of course on what is discovered in the investigation as to the motivations and history of the conflict between the murderer and his victims.


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/02/13/turkeys-erdogan-to-obama-wheres-the-outrage-about-chapel-hill-shootings/

His comments Thursday tapped into a wider international outcry about the response to the shooting: Online, the Twitter hashtag #muslimlivesmattersoon spread all around the world, while Al-Azhar, a renowned center for Islamic learning in Egypt, released a statement that condemned what it described as a "cowardly terrorist act."

.
Perhaps the Israelis should name their next incursion into Gaza 'Operation illegal parking'.