US man gets 70 years in German exchange student's death

[webfact]

US man gets 70 years in German exchange student's death
LISA BAUMANN, Associated Press

MISSOULA, Montana (AP) — A man wasn't defending his family but rather hunting someone when he shot and killed a German exchange student who was trespassing in his garage, a judge said Thursday as he sentenced the man to 70 years in prison with no parole possible for at least 20 years.

Kaarma's case was closely followed in Germany and brought scrutiny in the U.S. to Montana's "stand your ground" law that allows the use of force to protect life and property. At least 30 U.S. states have such laws.

In sentencing Kaarma, the judge made clear there are strict limits to residents' rights to use force while claiming self-defense.

"Here you have a 12-guage shotgun, not to protect your family but to go after someone. And go after someone you did," District Judge Ed McLean said sternly in sentencing Markus Kaarma for deliberate homicide in the April 27 killing of 17-year-old Diren Dede of Hamburg, Germany.

"You pose too great a risk to society to be anywhere else but the Montana State Prison," McLean said. "Good luck to you, son."

Kaarma's attorneys plan to appeal. They argued he feared for his life, didn't know if the intruder was armed, and was on edge because of the earlier burglary. Kaarma was convicted in December, and he had faced a maximum prison term of 100 years.

At trial, they invoked Montana law allowing people to use deadly force to defend their property. That law was expanded in 2009 to allow the use of force even in cases that don't involve violent entry.

But Kaarma had to demonstrate he was reasonably fearful for his safety. The jury concluded he was not.

In a similar case, a Minnesota man was convicted in May of lying in wait in his basement for two teenagers and killing them during a break-in.

Florida's "stand your ground" law allows the use of deadly force in more circumstances outside the home. It, too, was widely scrutinized in the 2012 shooting of an unarmed teenager, Trayvon Martin, by George Zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer who was following the 17-year-old. Zimmerman was acquitted after arguing self-defense.

Germany does not have a similar law, which was part of the reason Kaarma's case attracted so much attention there.

At trial, prosecutors argued Kaarma was intent on luring an intruder into his garage after it was burglarized at least once before the shooting. Three witnesses testified they heard Kaarma say he'd been waiting up nights to shoot an intruder.

The night of the shooting, Kaarma left his garage door partially open and placed a purse inside. Alerted by a motion detector, he entered the darkened garage and fired four shotgun blasts, pausing between the third and fourth shots, witnesses testified.

Lead detective Guy Baker testified that the first three shots were low and seemed to follow Dede as he moved across Kaarma's garage. The fourth shot was aimed higher and struck Dede in the head, Baker said.

Dede was unarmed.

"It is justice," Dede's father, Celal Dede, said after the sentence. But he added: "I am not happy. My son is dead."

Kaarma sat staring down during much of the proceeding, occasionally glancing around the crowded courtroom. He sported buzz-cut, dark hair and an orange jail suit.

"I'm sorry my actions caused the death of Mr. Dede," he told the judge.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-02-13

[Dannyboy666]

Happy with The Verdict, and the other guy who was laying in wait and killed the two kids, They Deserve Prison ...

[NeverSure]

Yep. It wasn't self defense. He was hunting. He needs to be taken out of society and locked up.

I can't find his age other than that he was a "young father." His name is Markus Kaarma.

A jury of 12 good, ordinary citizens didn't tolerate what he did so now he gets to have a roommate named Bubba. Due to the nature of his crime he will do hard time with other bad guys.

Tough shirt. He deserves it.

[hanno]

30 years old. What brought him don was that he could not get away with the "stand your ground defense"; too obvious that it was predetermined murder.

[oneday]

Outstanding verdict. When will the US ever wake up to their gun happy ways...and I'm American. This is one huge part of American life that embarrasses the hell out of me.

[NeverSure]

-snip- When will the US ever wake up to their gun happy ways...and I'm American.

Just as soon as you figure out how to remove the Second Amendment to the Constitution.

All you have to do is to get 2/3 of the House and 2/3 of the senate to vote for that, and then get the president to sign it. If you can do that, then you have to get 2/3 of the 50 states' legislatures to ratify it.

That would make a nice little project for you.

Considering that 2/3 of Americans see owning guns as a protection against tyranny LINK, (as is happening to Europeans) you have some tough sledding ahead of you.

Cheers

[alfalfa19]

Happy with The Verdict, and the other guy who was laying in wait and killed the two kids, They Deserve Prison ...

I agree. I saw a show on tv about the guy who killed the two teenagers, he laid in wait for them, first he killed the boy, then the girl when she saw her dead boyfriend and started screaming. The killer was stupid enough to have an audio recording of the whole thing, including cursing the dead girl.

[Friendly Stranger]

Why cannot other murders, especially more heineous ones, get these types of sentences?

[Credo]

Why cannot other murders, especially more heineous ones, get these types of sentences?

Because they don't get convicted in the US?

[thedude82]

Sure they did not deserve to die...but did these people not know the risks for burglary?

[Dustdevil]

Good for Montana! They may have old-fashioned cowboy culture in some ways, but it's Big Sky country out there and I think the people are good, commonsense types. And the courts showed they are reasonable. The same could not be said of Louisiana some 25 years ago in a very similar incident in which an idiot shot to death a Japanese student who came up to the home-owner's garage on Halloween. The court exonerated the man under stand-your-ground laws! That wasn't quite the end of the story, however. John Douglas, the FBI' famous original profiler (and model for the Jack Crawford character in "Silence of the Lambs") led the family's civil suit...and won big-time. The criminal trial was a travesty but at least the halfwit with the gun got hit hard in the bank account. I hope he lost his precious house...and his family!

[Dustdevil]

-snip- When will the US ever wake up to their gun happy ways...and I'm American.

Just as soon as you figure out how to remove the Second Amendment to the Constitution.

All you have to do is to get 2/3 of the House and 2/3 of the senate to vote for that, and then get the president to sign it. If you can do that, then you have to get 2/3 of the 50 states' legislatures to ratify it.

That would make a nice little project for you.

Considering that 2/3 of Americans see owning guns as a protection against tyranny LINK, (as is happening to Europeans) you have some tough sledding ahead of you.

One simple fact that Europeans overlook is that 2/3 of gun deaths in the US are either suicides or accidents.

Cheers

I agree about the Second Amendment. I only worry about slippery slopes and Republicans. What might be next? Second Amendment goes away, then in their wrath, a Republican president and congress make the 14th Amendment vanish! That's the one that guarantees that the First Amendment applies to ALL citizens in ALL jurisdiction.

[CWMcMurray]

Guess I'm the only one feeling a bit bad for this guy... 70 years for killing some one breaking into his house

Most rapists and murders get far less than this... But in my opinion face a larger risk to society

Should he go to jail... Of course... But 70 years?

[NeverSure]

30 years old. What brought him don was that he could not get away with the "stand your ground defense"; too obvious that it was predetermined murder.

It is tragic in a way though that society must be blamed for.

So many of us, myself included, are backyard lawyers.

We listen to our stupid friends saying you can do this and you cannot do that, without really having the correct information.

I am not American but I can readily imagine where a country with so many diverse laws and legal systems could easily lead a gung-ho chap (like myself) to easily make an error in judgement.

That said, the judge and jury know better than I.

The laws, with great specificity are well known to responsible gun owners. They get repeated over and over. There are discussion boards online and printouts from police agencies and gun dealers. Everyone I know who has a gun has gone to the small bit of trouble to find out what the responsibilities are regarding guns.

The laws are actually quite short and to the point regarding using the gun for self defense. The laws regarding hunting etc. don't apply here. This is narrow. This is about shooting someone and the lawful reasons are of necessity short and few.

This idiot set a trap and shot at an unknown intruder who was in his garage which isn't considered his dwelling. Stealing isn't a reason to shoot. Lives are worth more than property. Self defense is a reason to shoot "IF a person has a reasonable belief that he is in danger of death or serious bodily injury." If he shoots he'd damn well better be prepared to go through hell proving he had that reasonable belief and the shoot was the only way he could escape it. No one in his right mind wants to be in that position and that includes police officers.

A few states have a law that if an unauthorized person (intruder) is in your house you don't have to wait and see if he is armed before you can shoot. But this wasn't in the dwelling it was in a garage which means only property was at risk. This killer waited and went out into the garage with the intention of killing. That was cold blooded murder and he's paying dearly for it.

[Wat dee]

Guess I'm the only one feeling a bit bad for this guy... 70 years for killing some one breaking into his house

Most rapists and murders get far less than this... But in my opinion face a larger risk to society

Should he go to jail... Of course... But 70 years?

You should read the story. Especially the part about the purse and the open door.

I f he think's death penalty is good for taking a purse,surely killing someone is worth atleast 70 years.

[Jingthing]

Bet your bottom dollar, the verdict would have been different if the murder victim was black or Latino.

[NeverSure]

Guess I'm the only one feeling a bit bad for this guy... 70 years for killing some one breaking into his house

Most rapists and murders get far less than this... But in my opinion face a larger risk to society

Should he go to jail... Of course... But 70 years?

I understand your point but the victim didn't break into his house. He didn't even enter the house aka "dwelling."

Rather than the victim breaking into the garage, the killer left the door to the garage open and left a purse as bait. That smells of premeditation to kill. The killer waited until the victim was in his garage, and went out to the garage with a gun and the intention of shooting which he did. This is murder because you can't kill someone over property. Anywhere in the US lives are more valuable than property and you can't shoot someone to protect property.

This was a baited trap. Yes the intruder was wrong to intrude, but HE didn't deserve the death penalty for it but he died for it anyway. The killer is a heartless bastard that needs to be locked up away from the rest of us.

[BadBouy]

Bet your bottom dollar, the verdict would have been different if the murder victim was black or Latino.

Can you point to other court cases or news stories in Montana to back up your statement. This kind of vitriolic remark I expect from the antisemitic crew on Israeli threads, disappointed this comes from you, hope it's just you having a bad day.

[Ulysses G.]

Bet your bottom dollar, the verdict would have been different if the murder victim was black or Latino.

No way. This guy set a trap for anyone willing to go into his open garage to steal a purse purposely left out in the open. This guy would have gone to jail no matter what.

[manarak]

Bet your bottom dollar, the verdict would have been different if the murder victim was black or Latino.

Victim was of Turkish descent, does that count?

The Turks are to Germany a bit like what Latinos are to the USA.

Edited February 13, 2015 by manarak

[copa8]

Bet your bottom dollar, the verdict would have been different if the murder victim was black or Latino.

Would be totally different if the murder victim was Asian.

[CWMcMurray]

Bet your bottom dollar, the verdict would have been different if the murder victim was black or Latino.

Sure.. Then it would have been a hate crime and he would likely face life in prison or the death penalty...

[CWMcMurray]

Guess I'm the only one feeling a bit bad for this guy... 70 years for killing some one breaking into his house

Most rapists and murders get far less than this... But in my opinion face a larger risk to society

Should he go to jail... Of course... But 70 years?

I understand your point but the victim didn't break into his house. He didn't even enter the house aka "dwelling."

Rather than the victim breaking into the garage, the killer left the door to the garage open and left a purse as bait. That smells of premeditation to kill. The killer waited until the victim was in his garage, and went out to the garage with a gun and the intention of shooting which he did. This is murder because you can't kill someone over property. Anywhere in the US lives are more valuable than property and you can't shoot someone to protect property.

This was a baited trap. Yes the intruder was wrong to intrude, but HE didn't deserve the death penalty for it but he died for it anyway. The killer is a heartless bastard that needs to be locked up away from the rest of us.

I agree that because of the purse and open door, he deserves to go to jail... Just don't think 70 years is justified for killing a burglar

I also disagree with the interpretation that the garage is not part of the house...

I k ow I would consider my garage to be part of my house.

All I'm saying is that the sentence for deliberate murder, which this was, goes from 10 years to the death penalty

.... In my books, for killing a burglar ... 10 years seems plenty

Felonies in Montana range from deliberate murder—the most serious felony crime in the state—to sexual assault, kidnapping, aggravated assault, robbery, and criminal distribution of dangerous drugs. The following are specific examples of felonies and the possible penalties under Montana law:

Deliberate murder – life in prison, 10 to 100 years in prison, or the death penalty.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/resources/criminal-defense/state-felony-laws/montana-felony-class.htm

[MZurf]

-snip- When will the US ever wake up to their gun happy ways...and I'm American.

Just as soon as you figure out how to remove the Second Amendment to the Constitution.

All you have to do is to get 2/3 of the House and 2/3 of the senate to vote for that, and then get the president to sign it. If you can do that, then you have to get 2/3 of the 50 states' legislatures to ratify it.

That would make a nice little project for you.

Considering that 2/3 of Americans see owning guns as a protection against tyranny LINK, (as is happening to Europeans) you have some tough sledding ahead of you.

Cheers

Never understood this argument. Maybe it had some validity in the 17th/18th hundreds but do you/they honestly think that if the US government turned on it's citizens (pretty preposterous idea) with the military's full compliance (another preposterous idea) that a bunch of pistols, shotguns and hunting rifles would make any difference against jets, tanks, drones etc? Puh-lease!

Not slagging the US, just sayin.. I, for one, am very glad that it's the US that's the most powerful military power in the world today and not China or India or Germany (apologies to my German friends )

[NeverSure]

Never understood this argument. Maybe it had some validity in the 17th/18th hundreds but do you/they honestly think that if the US government turned on it's citizens (pretty preposterous idea) with the military's full compliance (another preposterous idea) that a bunch of pistols, shotguns and hunting rifles would make any difference against jets, tanks, drones etc? Puh-lease!

Not slagging the US, just sayin.. I, for one, am very glad that it's the US that's the most powerful military power in the world today and not China or India or Germany (apologies to my German friends )

Edit. I wrote a very well thought out answer to you but we've gone off topic and I don't want to get busted for it.

[MZurf]

Never understood this argument. Maybe it had some validity in the 17th/18th hundreds but do you/they honestly think that if the US government turned on it's citizens (pretty preposterous idea) with the military's full compliance (another preposterous idea) that a bunch of pistols, shotguns and hunting rifles would make any difference against jets, tanks, drones etc? Puh-lease!

Not slagging the US, just sayin.. I, for one, am very glad that it's the US that's the most powerful military power in the world today and not China or India or Germany (apologies to my German friends )

Edit. I wrote a very well thought out answer to you but we've gone off topic and I don't want to get busted for it.

Now, that's an ingenious way to end/win an argument!

[Ulysses G.]

Never understood this argument. Maybe it had some validity in the 17th/18th hundreds but do you/they honestly think that if the US government turned on it's citizens (pretty preposterous idea) with the military's full compliance (another preposterous idea) that a bunch of pistols, shotguns and hunting rifles would make any difference against jets, tanks, drones etc? Puh-lease!

I'm not a big gun guy, but as you alluded to in your post, The US government would be very unlikely to get the full compliance of the military or the citizenry and small arms would help a lot in a fight against them. The North Vietnamese waited us out in their country with inferior weapons, but the support of much of the populace and they won in the end.

Edited February 14, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[ALFREDO]

Sure they did not deserve to die...but did these people not know the risks for burglary?

NO, not really, HE, was a 17 year young German. Sure, not so familiar with the harsh US reality.

[ALFREDO]

Guess I'm the only one feeling a bit bad for this guy... 70 years for killing some one breaking into his house

Most rapists and murders get far less than this... But in my opinion face a larger risk to society

Should he go to jail... Of course... But 70 years?

"Breaking into"?

Sounds more, he walked in a open Garage door, maybe opened that already open door

(let open, as a trap, with a purse visible inside, from the house-garage owner) a bit more.

[neverdie]

Excellent result.

What a powerful criminal justice system. The USA really knows how to whack evil. Well done.