US cop who paralyzed Indian granddad arrested, fired

[Credo]

I've been massively lost in a few US cities. The thing is that because of the way the cities are planned, if you are in a residential area, you are either on your way to see someone or you are probably lost or possibly up to no good.

Years ago, I was stopped by the police who asked if I knew where I was. I said 'no'. They informed me that I was in a rather dangerous part of the city (New York) and were kind enough to give me directions as to how to get to where I was going. It was 2:00 a.m. I was stopped simply because I was not a member of that racial group.

That said, should the police be suspicious, probably. Should they harass someone who is not breaking a law, no.

[gk10002000]

The problem is the US cops start yelling and expect everybody to react quickly and lay down on the ground! A lot of people don't want to lay in the dirt. A lot of people don't react quickly like trained soldiers or snap to attention when yelled at. A lot of people in the USA do not understand or speak any English.

You sound like you did time in prison. When people are stopped for traffic violations, they are not required to lay down on the ground unless they are involved in a high risk traffic stop. To be involved in a high risk traffic stop, you would have to have just robbed a bank, 7/11 store, shot someone or were involved in some other sort of criminal behavior which would identify you as a danger to yourself or others.

I'm surprised at reading so many negative posts against law enforcement in America. If the truth were known, the majority of Thai poster police haters wouldn't be able to pass the psychological testing it takes to be considered to be a police officer in America. I doubt if any of you people have had any negative experiences with police in America, unless you were involved in some sort of criminal behavior.

"I sound like I did time in prison"? That is the most nutty thing I have ever heard and can't even imagine and don't want to imagine how your brain works. I am an ex air force captain, a current defense contractor with clearances, zero criminal activities, etc.

[GentlemanJim]

It's easy to see why some people attitudes on here would have problems with anyone.

Strange, isn't it, that in all of my years traveling all over the US I've never had a problem with a single policeman? I've approached them and asked for directions and gotten only courtesy. I've been stopped for a couple of traffic violations and gotten only courtesy (and a ticket, LOL.)

Very strange indeed.

Are you white?

Not so strange at all really is it?

[JockPieandBeans]

Personally, I've been pulled over by cops 4 times for being a White guy in a Black neighborhood. Once I had multiple cops pull guns on me before I was even close enough to make out their faces. But I've never gotten slammed to the ground or hit (the worst I got was drug out of my own car by the arm), not the least because I'm a White guy with a graduate degree who knows how to manipulate them appropriately when they bother me.

I knew the UK had some really useless Degree programmes.

The US has a Degree in Police manipulation !! That really takes the biscuit

[CMNightRider]

The problem is the US cops start yelling and expect everybody to react quickly and lay down on the ground! A lot of people don't want to lay in the dirt. A lot of people don't react quickly like trained soldiers or snap to attention when yelled at. A lot of people in the USA do not understand or speak any English.

You sound like you did time in prison. When people are stopped for traffic violations, they are not required to lay down on the ground unless they are involved in a high risk traffic stop. To be involved in a high risk traffic stop, you would have to have just robbed a bank, 7/11 store, shot someone or were involved in some other sort of criminal behavior which would identify you as a danger to yourself or others.

I'm surprised at reading so many negative posts against law enforcement in America. If the truth were known, the majority of Thai poster police haters wouldn't be able to pass the psychological testing it takes to be considered to be a police officer in America. I doubt if any of you people have had any negative experiences with police in America, unless you were involved in some sort of criminal behavior.

"I sound like I did time in prison"? That is the most nutty thing I have ever heard and can't even imagine and don't want to imagine how your brain works. I am an ex air force captain, a current defense contractor with clearances, zero criminal activities, etc.

If you are a former Air Force Captain, your anti-law enforcement post is even more disturbing.

[Bangkok Herps]

The problem is the US cops start yelling and expect everybody to react quickly and lay down on the ground! A lot of people don't want to lay in the dirt. A lot of people don't react quickly like trained soldiers or snap to attention when yelled at. A lot of people in the USA do not understand or speak any English.

You sound like you did time in prison. When people are stopped for traffic violations, they are not required to lay down on the ground unless they are involved in a high risk traffic stop. To be involved in a high risk traffic stop, you would have to have just robbed a bank, 7/11 store, shot someone or were involved in some other sort of criminal behavior which would identify you as a danger to yourself or others.

I'm surprised at reading so many negative posts against law enforcement in America. If the truth were known, the majority of Thai poster police haters wouldn't be able to pass the psychological testing it takes to be considered to be a police officer in America. I doubt if any of you people have had any negative experiences with police in America, unless you were involved in some sort of criminal behavior.

"I sound like I did time in prison"? That is the most nutty thing I have ever heard and can't even imagine and don't want to imagine how your brain works. I am an ex air force captain, a current defense contractor with clearances, zero criminal activities, etc.

If you are a former Air Force Captain, your anti-law enforcement post is even more disturbing.

I agree - the fact that even a former Air Force Captain can express these realities about the law enforcement situation should help you to realize how disturbing the situation currently is.

Did you not notice the blowback after the police actions during the Ferguson demonstrations? A LOT of military men spoke out and said that the police were completely out of control, and that they were far too aggressive and overbearing, leading to an escalation of the situation. The police in some areas are beginning to act more like military than law enforcement, only they haven't been trained like military personnel have, so those who have actually served are that much more aware that their actions are uncalled for and counterproductive.

[Scott]

Posts violating Fair Use Policy have been removed. You may only quote the title and the first 3 sentences and then a link to the remainder of the article.

[CMNightRider]

I agree - the fact that even a former Air Force Captain can express these realities about the law enforcement situation should help you to realize how disturbing the situation currently is.

Did you not notice the blowback after the police actions during the Ferguson demonstrations? A LOT of military men spoke out and said that the police were completely out of control, and that they were far too aggressive and overbearing, leading to an escalation of the situation. The police in some areas are beginning to act more like military than law enforcement, only they haven't been trained like military personnel have, so those who have actually served are that much more aware that their actions are uncalled for and counterproductive.

Wait a minute.....you are using the Ferguson demonstrations and riots which was focused on a police officer who justifiably shot and killed a criminal who was trying to relieve him of his duty weapon? What do you think a police officer should do when attacked by a thug who is trying to take his weapon away from him?

The FBI is conducting an investigation of the police officer who injured the Indian grandfather. The Madison, Alabama, incident doesn't compare with the Ferguson incident. If the Alabama police officer broke the law, loosing his job will be the least of his problems.

I find many of the anti-law enforcement comments on this site nothing short of despicable. I believe the majority of people posting these idiotic posts against American law enforcement, know woefully little about law enforcement or the selection process and training police go through in the US.

[Bangkok Herps]

I agree - the fact that even a former Air Force Captain can express these realities about the law enforcement situation should help you to realize how disturbing the situation currently is.

Did you not notice the blowback after the police actions during the Ferguson demonstrations? A LOT of military men spoke out and said that the police were completely out of control, and that they were far too aggressive and overbearing, leading to an escalation of the situation. The police in some areas are beginning to act more like military than law enforcement, only they haven't been trained like military personnel have, so those who have actually served are that much more aware that their actions are uncalled for and counterproductive.

Wait a minute.....you are using the Ferguson demonstrations and riots which was focused on a police officer who justifiably shot and killed a criminal who was trying to relieve him of his duty weapon? What do you think a police officer should do when attacked by a thug who is trying to take his weapon away from him?

The FBI is conducting an investigation of the police officer who injured the Indian grandfather. The Madison, Alabama, incident doesn't compare with the Ferguson incident. If the Alabama police officer broke the law, loosing his job will be the least of his problems.

I find many of the anti-law enforcement comments on this site nothing short of despicable. I believe the majority of people posting these idiotic posts against American law enforcement, know woefully little about law enforcement or the selection process and training police go through in the US.

Before you go off ranting about who you find despicable, you should probably make sure that you've read the post correctly. I didn't say a thing about the officer who shot and killed the kid. Here, I'll repeat myself again and you can read it correctly this time.

"Did you not notice the blowback after the police actions during the Ferguson demonstrations? A LOT of military men spoke out and said that the police were completely out of control, and that they were far too aggressive and overbearing, leading to an escalation of the situation. The police in some areas are beginning to act more like military than law enforcement, only they haven't been trained like military personnel have, so those who have actually served are that much more aware that their actions are uncalled for and counterproductive."

I'm being quite clear with my point that the police acted inappropriately during the demonstrations, and that they were repeated criticized by the military men as a result. Didn't say a thing about the original incident (which you're also misrepresenting, but that's neither here nor there). Everything I said only makes sense in that context, so you're either really jumping the gun without reading carefully or you're playing games.

Edited February 15, 2015 by Bangkok Herps

[Berkshire]

It's easy to see why some people attitudes on here would have problems with anyone.

Strange, isn't it, that in all of my years traveling all over the US I've never had a problem with a single policeman? I've approached them and asked for directions and gotten only courtesy. I've been stopped for a couple of traffic violations and gotten only courtesy (and a ticket, LOL.)

Very strange indeed.

At least be honest and concede that being black (or in this case brown) is a whole different story when it comes to how USA cops behave. I've never had problems with cops either, but I'm not naive enough to believe that they treat everyone the same.

[CMNightRider]

It's easy to see why some people attitudes on here would have problems with anyone.

Strange, isn't it, that in all of my years traveling all over the US I've never had a problem with a single policeman? I've approached them and asked for directions and gotten only courtesy. I've been stopped for a couple of traffic violations and gotten only courtesy (and a ticket, LOL.)

Very strange indeed.

At least be honest and concede that being black (or in this case brown) is a whole different story when it comes to how USA cops behave. I've never had problems with cops either, but I'm not naive enough to believe that they treat everyone the same.

Police officers in America, have Black, Asian, and Hispanic officers. Some of you guys are beating a dead horse suggesting police in America, treat Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics any different from Caucasians. All professions have a few knuckle heads. This may come as a shock to some of you but Thai Visa has its share of knuckle heads too.

[Bangkok Herps]

It's easy to see why some people attitudes on here would have problems with anyone.

Strange, isn't it, that in all of my years traveling all over the US I've never had a problem with a single policeman? I've approached them and asked for directions and gotten only courtesy. I've been stopped for a couple of traffic violations and gotten only courtesy (and a ticket, LOL.)

Very strange indeed.

At least be honest and concede that being black (or in this case brown) is a whole different story when it comes to how USA cops behave. I've never had problems with cops either, but I'm not naive enough to believe that they treat everyone the same.

Police officers in America, have Black, Asian, and Hispanic officers. Some of you guys are beating a dead horse suggesting police in America, treat Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics any different from Caucasians. All professions have a few knuckle heads. This may come as a shock to some of you but Thai Visa has its share of knuckle heads too.

How is it "beating a dead horse" when it's been proven time and time again to be true? If you're going to dismiss every example of violence as "a few knuckle heads", or completely ignore all the stories of how Black men who have done nothing wrong are repeatedly stopped and harassed, then how about the statistics that show that Black people are pulled over at a completely different rate than White people, searched at a different rate, charged at a different rate, etc.?

After the Ferguson case, it came out that:

Black people in Ferguson were three times as likely to be pulled over than White people.

Black people who were pulled over were more than twice as likely to be searched than White people.

Black people who were searched were 40% less likely to have contraband found in their vehicles than White people who were searched.

Black people, despite being less likely to have contraband found during searches, were still more than twice as likely to be arrested and taken into the station after the search.

As far as "but there are minority police officers", do you really believe their numbers are remotely representative? In Ferguson, a city that was 70% Black was being policed by a force that was 95% White. That pattern repeats itself all across America. And when you look at the numbers for the police chiefs and those in authority, the distribution is even worse.

[chuckd]

It's easy to see why some people attitudes on here would have problems with anyone.

Strange, isn't it, that in all of my years traveling all over the US I've never had a problem with a single policeman? I've approached them and asked for directions and gotten only courtesy. I've been stopped for a couple of traffic violations and gotten only courtesy (and a ticket, LOL.)

Very strange indeed.

At least be honest and concede that being black (or in this case brown) is a whole different story when it comes to how USA cops behave. I've never had problems with cops either, but I'm not naive enough to believe that they treat everyone the same.

Police officers in America, have Black, Asian, and Hispanic officers. Some of you guys are beating a dead horse suggesting police in America, treat Blacks, Asians, and Hispanics any different from Caucasians. All professions have a few knuckle heads. This may come as a shock to some of you but Thai Visa has its share of knuckle heads too.

How is it "beating a dead horse" when it's been proven time and time again to be true? If you're going to dismiss every example of violence as "a few knuckle heads", or completely ignore all the stories of how Black men who have done nothing wrong are repeatedly stopped and harassed, then how about the statistics that show that Black people are pulled over at a completely different rate than White people, searched at a different rate, charged at a different rate, etc.?

After the Ferguson case, it came out that:

Black people in Ferguson were three times as likely to be pulled over than White people.

Black people who were pulled over were more than twice as likely to be searched than White people.

Black people who were searched were 40% less likely to have contraband found in their vehicles than White people who were searched.

Black people, despite being less likely to have contraband found during searches, were still more than twice as likely to be arrested and taken into the station after the search.

As far as "but there are minority police officers", do you really believe their numbers are remotely representative? In Ferguson, a city that was 70% Black was being policed by a force that was 95% White. That pattern repeats itself all across America. And when you look at the numbers for the police chiefs and those in authority, the distribution is even worse.

Erik Holder's civil rights division has been investigating the Ferguson PD since Michael Brown attacked the police officer.

If they haven't found any civil rights violations after some six months, perhaps there aren't any.

If that team of ACLU trained attorneys can find even the remotest hint of corruption, they will be all over it.

I suggest you relax and wait for breaking news.

[Marknreston]

The USA DOJ has decided not to bring any civil rights charges in connection to the Brown case while hundreds of looting protesters will be charged. It is clear that Michael Browbs criminal behavior and assault on offucer Wilson precipitated the events leading to Browns death.

I am a retired USAF officer and I served with many outstanding Black officers and enlisted. Those who I keep in touch with are sick about the racist approach many Black activists are now pursuing on any and every opportunity. They make it clear that being Black presents challenges and obstacles but throwing race into the mix every time a black person is involved in criminal activity is just another form of racism. Holder and Obama provided comfort and cover to the Black racists in Ferguson and clearly contributed to the murder if the two police officers in Brooklyn. Shameful

[Bangkok Herps]

Erik Holder's civil rights division has been investigating the Ferguson PD since Michael Brown attacked the police officer.

If they haven't found any civil rights violations after some six months, perhaps there aren't any.

If that team of ACLU trained attorneys can find even the remotest hint of corruption, they will be all over it.

I suggest you relax and wait for breaking news.

That's a ridiculous argument. How could any of the things I mentioned be charged as federal crimes without direct proof of conspiracy? If you really believe, "nothing improper happens if the feds can't prosecute it", you're really at a disconnect with American life.

And at least three officers (Ray Albers, Dan Page, and Matthew Pappert) were forced to resign, and that doesn't include the officers who lied about why they shot Kajieme Powell, or the officers named in the $40 million lawsuit pending against the city for their mistreatment of protesters.

Edited February 16, 2015 by Bangkok Herps

[Bangkok Herps]

The USA DOJ has decided not to bring any civil rights charges in connection to the Brown case while hundreds of looting protesters will be charged. It is clear that Michael Browbs criminal behavior and assault on offucer Wilson precipitated the events leading to Browns death.

I am a retired USAF officer and I served with many outstanding Black officers and enlisted. Those who I keep in touch with are sick about the racist approach many Black activists are now pursuing on any and every opportunity. They make it clear that being Black presents challenges and obstacles but throwing race into the mix every time a black person is involved in criminal activity is just another form of racism. Holder and Obama provided comfort and cover to the Black racists in Ferguson and clearly contributed to the murder if the two police officers in Brooklyn. Shameful

I'm interested in your evidence that "hundreds" of looting protesters will be charged. There were only a couple hundred of arrests, and most of the arrests were for "refusal to disperse".

As far as military response to the tactics the police actually used, I suggest you read the following article. Note specifically the statements made by Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, Marine logistics officer Jeff Clement, Army veteran Jason Fritz and Army veteran Josh Wienberg.

"The general consensus here: if this is militarization, it's the s***iest, least-trained, least professional military in the world, using weapons far beyond what they need, or what the military would use when doing crowd control."

"Our (Rules of Engagement) regarding who we could point weapons at in Afghanistan was more restrictive than cops in MO."

Quite a bit more where that came from:

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/08/14/us/missouri-ferguson-police-tactics/

Edited February 16, 2015 by Bangkok Herps

[Bangkok Herps]

More good input by Fritz, as well as Scriven King (USAF law enforcement vet and SWAT officer) and Army vet Kyle Dysktra.

“You see the police are standing online with bulletproof vests and rifles pointed at peoples chests. That’s not controlling the crowd, that’s intimidating them.”

“Officers were calling the protesters ‘animals'. I can’t imagine a military unit would do that in any scenario.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/checkpoint/wp/2014/08/14/military-veterans-see-deeply-flawed-police-response-in-ferguson/

More from Weinburg, as well as USAF vet James Gerrond, Army vets Joshua Prentice and Brandon Friedman,

"You just see guys running around pointing their weapons at people who are obviously not a threat."

“What you really need to talk about is, 'are those guys ready to use it?' They could've kept all that s-- in the garage for this one.”

http://mashable.com/2014/08/14/war-veterans-ferguson-police/

Edited February 16, 2015 by Bangkok Herps

[Marknreston]

It is obvious that some here are just anti police for whatever reason. A couple of points here. How many protesters or looters in Fergudon were injured by police ior national guard. None. They showed considerable restraint Of course the ROE is different in Afghan when on patrol through a market. But if you have hundreds of protesters 10 feet away calling for your death and throwing bottles etc then my weapon is at the ready. In fact the leniency of law enforcement was shown clearly as looters and arsonists destroyed their own community without law enforcement interference. As far as the weapons and body armor used by law enforcement , there is an old saying. Don't show up at a gunfight with a knife. Are you all sure none of the protesters and looters weren't armed?? The LA police learned this the hard way when five bank robbers wearing body armor engaged the police with M16s while the police returned fire with.....38s!!

I hope the next time your car is stolen, your house is robbed or you are the victim of any crime your anti police bias is restrained.

There are 330 million Americans protected by hundreds of outstanding law enforcement agencies. Of course there are some bad apples. But I think many if you have way. Way overstated police issues. But have fun ranting. that is your right.

[Bangkok Herps]

It is obvious that some here are just anti police for whatever reason. A couple of points here. How many protesters or looters in Fergudon were injured by police ior national guard. None. They showed considerable restraint Of course the ROE is different in Afghan when on patrol through a market. But if you have hundreds of protesters 10 feet away calling for your death and throwing bottles etc then my weapon is at the ready. In fact the leniency of law enforcement was shown clearly as looters and arsonists destroyed their own community without law enforcement interference. As far as the weapons and body armor used by law enforcement , there is an old saying. Don't show up at a gunfight with a knife. Are you all sure none of the protesters and looters weren't armed?? The LA police learned this the hard way when five bank robbers wearing body armor engaged the police with M16s while the police returned fire with.....38s!!

None? It takes five seconds to google "Ferguson" and "injured by police" to see that you're wrong.

And where the heck does anything you're saying justify pointing rifles at unarmed protesters, pointing rifles at crowds, aiming a sniper rifle at peaceful protesters when there's clearly no threat, cursing at protesters, calling them animals, threatening to kill them, sending SWAT teams to do crowd-control work they're completely untrained for, and preparing with equipment that doesn't even remotely match the actual situation?

Do you realize that most of those actions antagonized protesters and made the situation worse, not better?

I'll trust the 10 experts who were quoted in those articles and know what they're talking about over someone justifying the whole thing by spouting off "don't bring a gun to a knife fight" (but bring armored vehicles and sniper rifles to unarmed protesters?) or trying to compare bank robbers with M16s and body armors to unarmed protesters in t-shirts.

And how can you continue to call me anti-police, when military police and SWAT team members are saying the same thing that I'm saying?

p.s. - Grandpa was a 20-year veteran of the California Highway Patrol and chief of police of two small NorCal cities, FWIW. You can't just dismiss my opinion by painting me with the "anti-police" brush.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Bangkok Herps

[2fishin2]

There should be independent testing of every police officer accross the US every 3 months, for Steroids, and other illegal Drugs.

You would be surprised at the results.

Any officer found failing the test should be immediately dismissed from the force, and relegated to working as a security officer at Walmart for the rest of their careers.

And there should be testing for TV posters like you also, where in the story does it even mention or come close to mentioning drugs or steroids?? You want to argue stay on point....dont make up poop

[2fishin2]

It is obvious that some here are just anti police for whatever reason. A couple of points here. How many protesters or looters in Fergudon were injured by police ior national guard. None. They showed considerable restraint Of course the ROE is different in Afghan when on patrol through a market. But if you have hundreds of protesters 10 feet away calling for your death and throwing bottles etc then my weapon is at the ready. In fact the leniency of law enforcement was shown clearly as looters and arsonists destroyed their own community without law enforcement interference. As far as the weapons and body armor used by law enforcement , there is an old saying. Don't show up at a gunfight with a knife. Are you all sure none of the protesters and looters weren't armed?? The LA police learned this the hard way when five bank robbers wearing body armor engaged the police with M16s while the police returned fire with.....38s!!

None? It takes five seconds to google "Ferguson" and "injured by police" to see that you're wrong.

And where the heck does anything you're saying justify pointing rifles at unarmed protesters, pointing rifles at crowds, aiming a sniper rifle at peaceful protesters when there's clearly no threat, cursing at protesters, calling them animals, threatening to kill them, sending SWAT teams to do crowd-control work they're completely untrained for, and preparing with equipment that doesn't even remotely match the actual situation?

Do you realize that most of those actions antagonized protesters and made the situation worse, not better?

I'll trust the 10 experts who were quoted in those articles and know what they're talking about over someone justifying the whole thing by spouting off "don't bring a gun to a knife fight" (but bring armored vehicles and sniper rifles to unarmed protesters?) or trying to compare bank robbers with M16s and body armors to unarmed protesters in t-shirts.

And how can you continue to call me anti-police, when military police and SWAT team members are saying the same thing that I'm saying?

p.s. - Grandpa was a 20-year veteran of the California Highway Patrol and chief of police of two small NorCal cities, FWIW. You can't just dismiss my opinion by painting me with the "anti-police" brush.

Amazing your beloved protesters were protesting for a thug/criminal. Amazing that the officer involved was found to be "innocent" by two different independent investigations of any wrong doings. Amazing that these "innocent" protestors burned and looted peoples livelihoods in stores and businesses and that these owners had nothing to do at all with the incident. Amazing the the actually criminal's "stepfather" screamed burn the town down after the officer was found innocent of wrong doing.

Amazing that police officers need protection against protesters that are "peaceful"

But for the actions of the thug Brown none of this would have happened. But for the actions of this thug and the criminal acting protesters, the police would not have been dressed in "war gear" Amazing.

Amazing that you stick up for thugs and criminals vs sticking up for law enforcement officers who put their lives on the line everyday so you can spew hatred from your mouth like this.

Thank you.

[chuckd]

Perhaps some of our posters might prefer to attend this sort of protest.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Denver PD Chief Orders Stand Down as Protesters Vandalize Memorial to Fallen Officers

http://www.gopusa.com/news/2015/02/16/denver-pd-chief-orders-stand-down-as-protesters-vandalize-memorial-to-fallen-officers/?subscriber=1

[Bangkok Herps]

How the heck did this thread become about Michael Brown and Darren Wilson? Do the over-agitated posters realize that absolutely no one they are trying to argue with has been talking about that case at all? Can they even find one word where someone was "sticking up for thugs and criminals" in the whole thread? You need to find your straw man to argue with on some other forum.

I've specifically stuck up for five guys: Sureshbhai Patel, Charles Belk, Jamaal Wilks, Orlando Clemens, and Donald Andrews Jr., and generally represented statistics and anecdotes suggesting that those five case examples were representative of a far wider issue.

Regarding inappropriate POLICE actions during the demonstrations (which doesn't say one word about any actions of the demonstrators), I've positively quoted the opinions of Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, Marine logistics officer Jeff Clement, Army veteran Jason Fritz, Army veteran Josh Wienberg, USAF law enforcement vet and SWAT officer Scriven King, Army vet Kyle Dysktra, USAF vet James Gerrond, Army vet Joshua Prentice and Army vet Brandon Friedman.

So which one of those 14 guys are the "thugs and criminals" that you claim I'm talking about? Or are we going to have to run in circles with false character attacks and name-calling some more?

Edited February 17, 2015 by Bangkok Herps

[Bangkok Herps]

Perhaps some of our posters might prefer to attend this sort of protest.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Denver PD Chief Orders Stand Down as Protesters Vandalize Memorial to Fallen Officers

http://www.gopusa.com/news/2015/02/16/denver-pd-chief-orders-stand-down-as-protesters-vandalize-memorial-to-fallen-officers/?subscriber=1

Once you get past all the posturing, what do you have?

* Two guys threw paint on a memorial.

* They were arrested and charged with criminal mischief-vandalism.

* No one was hurt and the police officers were perfectly safe the whole time.

I'm outraged! Oh, wait, why am I outraged again?

I don't think that was the only option the police had, but it seems like a perfectly good option that was executed expertly and led to an optimal result.

Perhaps you shouldn't get your outrage from political propaganda sites.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Bangkok Herps

[chuckd]

How the heck did this thread become about Michael Brown and Darren Wilson? Do the over-agitated posters realize that absolutely no one they are trying to argue with has been talking about that case at all? Can they even find one word where someone was "sticking up for thugs and criminals" in the whole thread? You need to find your straw man to argue with on some other forum.

I've specifically stuck up for five guys: Sureshbhai Patel, Charles Belk, Jamaal Wilks, Orlando Clemens, and Donald Andrews Jr., and generally represented statistics and anecdotes suggesting that those five case examples were representative of a far wider issue.

Regarding inappropriate POLICE actions during the demonstrations (which doesn't say one word about any actions of the demonstrators), I've positively quoted the opinions of Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, Marine logistics officer Jeff Clement, Army veteran Jason Fritz, Army veteran Josh Wienberg, USAF law enforcement vet and SWAT officer Scriven King, Army vet Kyle Dysktra, USAF vet James Gerrond, Army vet Joshua Prentice and Army vet Brandon Friedman.

So which one of those 14 guys are the "thugs and criminals" that you claim I'm talking about? Or are we going to have to run in circles with false character attacks and name-calling some more?

Not trying to embarrass you as you are doing just fine on your own, but, you were the first one to mention the Ferguson incidents on this thread.

Post 36 located here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/800006-us-cop-who-paralyzed-indian-granddad-arrested-fired/page-2#entry9075102

[Bangkok Herps]

How the heck did this thread become about Michael Brown and Darren Wilson? Do the over-agitated posters realize that absolutely no one they are trying to argue with has been talking about that case at all? Can they even find one word where someone was "sticking up for thugs and criminals" in the whole thread? You need to find your straw man to argue with on some other forum.

I've specifically stuck up for five guys: Sureshbhai Patel, Charles Belk, Jamaal Wilks, Orlando Clemens, and Donald Andrews Jr., and generally represented statistics and anecdotes suggesting that those five case examples were representative of a far wider issue.

Regarding inappropriate POLICE actions during the demonstrations (which doesn't say one word about any actions of the demonstrators), I've positively quoted the opinions of Lt. Gen. Russel Honore, Marine logistics officer Jeff Clement, Army veteran Jason Fritz, Army veteran Josh Wienberg, USAF law enforcement vet and SWAT officer Scriven King, Army vet Kyle Dysktra, USAF vet James Gerrond, Army vet Joshua Prentice and Army vet Brandon Friedman.

So which one of those 14 guys are the "thugs and criminals" that you claim I'm talking about? Or are we going to have to run in circles with false character attacks and name-calling some more?

Not trying to embarrass you as you are doing just fine on your own, but, you were the first one to mention the Ferguson incidents on this thread.

Post 36 located here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/800006-us-cop-who-paralyzed-indian-granddad-arrested-fired/page-2#entry9075102

Where did I ever claim that I wasn't the first one to mention the police actions during the Ferguson demonstrations?

A reading comprehension error made once might be a mistake. A reading comprehension error made repeatedly even after it has been pointed out is willful ignorance.

What I said is that I didn't mention Michael Brown or Darren Wilson or even allude to them. In addition, I didn't once support the actions of any of the protesters.

I clearly referred to the police actions during the Ferguson demonstrations, which I pointed out in all caps in the very post you are quoting. I don't know why you felt the need to link back to my earlier post, because I said restated the same thing very clearly in the post you just quoted. This thread has been about the police, and I have continued to talk about what I and many others see as inappropriate police actions.

If you can't separate out the Brown/Wilson incident from the police actions against the demonstrators and realize they are two separate actions, if you don't realize that they happened a month apart and that for one to be right or wrong doesn't say a thing about whether the other was right or wrong, then it's simply useless to participate in the discussion.

Edited February 17, 2015 by Bangkok Herps

[Bangkok Herps]

Here's a strong series that mostly gives the police side of the story. But it also includes information like this:

Only 17% of the Milwaukee police force is black in an incredibly segregated city. I told Flynn there's evidence that race can influence the way cops deal with black residents. Some of this we're going to talk about more in next week's show. There's research about people's implicit biases, subconscious racism that can affect officers' decisions.

But there's also evidence in Chief Flynn's own department, according to that JournalSentinel story, which showed that the largest disparity between blacks and whites getting pulled over in Milwaukee didn't happen in high crime black areas of the city, but in the two lowest crime districts, both with predominantly white populations. The paper also found that once black drivers were pulled over, they were twice as likely as white drivers to have police search their cars, even though that didn't lead to finding more drugs or weapons. Flynn eventually said he's not trying to say race plays no role in policing.

And, horrifically, stories like this:

Jude was an exotic dancer. He did bachelorette parties. And one night after work, he ended up at a party full of off duty police officers. A group of about a dozen officers, all of whom were white and many of whom were drunk, surrounded Jude, who was black, and started beating him. They claimed he'd stolen one of their badges. Just like in the incident you heard about at the beginning of the show, one of the women who'd brought Frank Jude to the party decided to call 9-1-1 on the cops as they handcuffed Jude, cut his clothes off, and essentially tortured him-- kicked him repeatedly, bent his fingers back, shoved a pen in his ears, causing them to bleed. Even when the dispatcher sent on duty officers to the scene, one of them joined in the beating, stomping on Frank Jude's head while the other officers stood by.

Woman

They're kicking him, too.

Dispatcher

You're saying that the two officers that just arrived in the squad got out and started beating your friend also?

Woman

Yeah. They're holding him down. They're beating-- [iNAUDIBLE].

Brian Reed

Eventually, seven officers were fired, three were sentenced to over 15 years in prison, but before that, officers closed ranks. No one talked. No one knew anything. It showed the city how cops would turn the other way and protect their own even if they saw something truly terrible. The case hung over Milwaukee for years.

You can't just wish stuff like this away as "a couple bad apples", and you can't deny that if the police closed ranks even in that horrific a case, that there aren't going to be numerous other cases in which the closure of ranks will keep anyone from ever getting in trouble.

The full story is here:

http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/547/cops-see-it-differently-part-one

Edited February 20, 2015 by Bangkok Herps

[Bwanatickey]

This is about an old age pensioner who went for a walk in a new neighbour hood, he wasn't to know that folks around here all had access to the Automobile.

No Automobile, strange dude.

He didn't know nuthen about Ferguson, so why bring it up.

[Bangkok Herps]

Wow, the second half is even better. Among other things, including great stories of officers policing the right way, there are extreme examples of entire units policing the wrong way.

Believe it or not, in Miami Gardens a single mentally-disabled Black man was stopped 162 times and arrested 99 times in the course of three years...despite never doing anything wrong. Listen if you don't believe me. The things that were going on in that department were absolutely insane - and there's more than enough proof of it.

The second half of the story is about a department that turned itself around. And even in that story, you hear that in a single four-year period (2007 to 2011), this single police department had 11 unjustified shootings by its OWN admission. And 8 of those 11 shootings were unarmed black men. None of the officers were punished.

That department has substantially improved, which shows that even in bad situations there can be a solution as long as we admit there's a problem and are willing to do something about it. But I don't believe that anyone could listen to this two-part series and still claim that there's nothing systematically wrong.


http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/548/cops-see-it-differently-part-two

[Bangkok Herps]

This is about an old age pensioner who went for a walk in a new neighbour hood, he wasn't to know that folks around here all had access to the Automobile.

No Automobile, strange dude.

He didn't know nuthen about Ferguson, so why bring it up.

Look at the first comments to the story - most of them are in defense of police and most of them are talking about the entire national situation, not just one event. This discussion had expanded to the big picture long before I got involved. In fact, of the previous dozen comments before my first post, every single one was looking at the bigger picture or other situations.

So no, you can't try to shut me up and claim that I shouldn't discuss the larger picture when everyone else already is.

Now, the reason I specifically brought up the negative response of military men to the Ferguson police force's aggressive posture was as a direct response to the following series of comments:

You sound like you did time in prison. When people are stopped for traffic violations, they are not required to lay down on the ground unless they are involved in a high risk traffic stop. To be involved in a high risk traffic stop, you would have to have just robbed a bank, 7/11 store, shot someone or were involved in some other sort of criminal behavior which would identify you as a danger to yourself or others.

I'm surprised at reading so many negative posts against law enforcement in America. If the truth were known, the majority of Thai poster police haters wouldn't be able to pass the psychological testing it takes to be considered to be a police officer in America. I doubt if any of you people have had any negative experiences with police in America, unless you were involved in some sort of criminal behavior.

"I sound like I did time in prison"? That is the most nutty thing I have ever heard and can't even imagine and don't want to imagine how your brain works. I am an ex air force captain, a current defense contractor with clearances, zero criminal activities, etc.

If you are a former Air Force Captain, your anti-law enforcement post is even more disturbing.

People saying, "You sound like you did time in prison" and "I doubt if any of you people had any negative experiences with police in America unless you were involved in some sort of criminal behavior" and "If you are a former Air Force Captain, your anti-law enforcement post is even more disturbing".

I was responding to their increduility by showing that, yes, members of the military can legitimately take serious issue with how the police in certain departments do their work.

Edited February 20, 2015 by Bangkok Herps