Recent shooting on Samui? Turkish Mafia? Protection? Security guards with shotguns?

[DoDoey]

Greetings TV Forum members. I posting these questions after reading about the recent shooting on Koh Samui involving a Turkish man, who was reportedly "mafia who protected foreign business owners". My questions are not about this particular incident, but rather the shady underside of owning a business in Thailand.

Why would a farang business owner need protection, and from whom? I can imagine a disco or go go bar needing this, but does this extend to small business, like guest houses or pubs? Granted I've never been to Samui or Phuket, but I live in Bangkok and have visited Jomtien a few times. I've often thought about buying a small bar, like the ones you see near the beach on Jomtien, do those kind of places need protection, or are they hustled by mafia? If so, to what extent?

On Samui, why would a security guard at a pub carry a shotgun? I've never seen this in anywhere in Thailand.
Thanks!

[HeijoshinCool]

On Koh Chang seven years ago, I knew a number of foreign bar or restaurant owners.

Not one is still in business. Two are dead.

[grumpyoldman]

"Toto, I have a feeling we are not in Kansas anymore".

"I've never seen this in anywhere in Thailand."

My recommendation is not to buy a bar in Jomtien.

[DoDoey]

Thanks for the advice. Buying a bar in Jomtien is not likely, only something I've pondered once or twice. My questions are about the supposed mafia; Russian, Turkish, whatever. Reading these posts, you would imagine Thailand is like the wild west, or Chicago in the 1930s. I just don't see any of that here in Bangkok, and wonder how real it is. I haven't seen it in Jomtien, or Chiang Mai for that matter. Could some of you locals of Pattaya, Phuket, Samui kindly explain the reality of the foreign mob here in Thailand? I could easily imagine Thai mafia, but I can't see Thai mafia putting up with foreign mafia. It would be too easy to get rid of them, one phone call to Uncle hiso policeman.

Now, I have seen plenty of thuggish Russians. They're loud and drunk, and I steer clear of them, but that doesn't make them mafia. Are these the 'mafia' so many speak of? Simple tourists?

Edited February 14, 2015 by DoDoey

[smokie36]

Small monthly donation to the local police by your bar....you need assistance...you call them and problem solved.

[Minnehaha]

it's difficult to know where to start to answer a question like this...

maybe start by watching Goodfellas.

then ponder owning a bar in Jomtien again

[DoDoey]

If you would read the post, you'd know it's not about owning a bar in jomtien, it's about understanding the reality of mafia in Thailand. If it's too difficult to reply to this post, why bother?

[sanuk711]

...."but I live in Bangkok and have visited Jomtien a few times.

I've often thought about buying a small bar",---DoDoey

Seems a great Idea DoDoey................. Can't see any down side to that.....................

Edited February 14, 2015 by sanuk711

[reptile91602]

woning a business in Thailand as a foreigner is only shady. You can always expect trouble. A miriacle if you don't have any but that just means you haven't been here long enough and been successful.

[schietkop]

I have a business in Thailand, and I can confirm, there is not. My business however is in an office with guards and you need to leave your ID downstairs when entering the building, I guess that helps a lot. I think it depends in what business you are, and where, maybe in the bar scene it can get shady. However, the same for that in Europe. Many bar and restaurant are owned by people who use them to launder their money.

[nithisa78]

Sir, Peace. I have yet to read one item, about Thailand, China anywhere else in the world. Nothing unlike what it was like growing up in the Big Apple or anywhere else we may have lived or visited. We are all guests here. Wherever we might be. I was raised to respect others, despite what position they may have gained in life or been born into. I'm usually the boss but often thought of as just one of the workers. I'm also very lucky , I like people. I might even like many of the TV posters if they would think a minute before they vomit on what they want to express. Or if they were at least consulting with a Chaplain or anyone better equipped to deal with life on a day to day basis.

I'm very greatful for the day. Happy Saint Valentine.

Edited February 14, 2015 by nithisa78

[nithisa78]

If you would read the post, you'd know it's not about owning a bar in jomtien, it's about understanding the reality of mafia in Thailand. If it's too difficult to reply to this post, why bother?

Thank you. Everything is too difficult for these types. It would require responsibility and to stop the worship of Lazy apathy.

[RigPig]

OK, I´ll bite:

Let´s say you open a coffee shop, at first you are not a threat or competition to anyone it all goes fine for a year or two. Then, some Thai person with influence¨ of some sort sees you are making money, so (as they do) they copy you. The trouble is they can not supply the same service as you and then wonder why they are not making money when you are obviously successful (NO comprehension of what is happening).

So he goes and sees cousin Somchai his police cousin, windows get broken, access gets blocked, your customers are being harassed (despite complaints to the police, nothing is done). You have a problem one night with young hoodlums robbing your shop, despite the timely phone call no one arrives from the police station for 2 hours!! You till has been emptied, you shop vandalized, your staff harassed and your customers have been terrorized to the extent they will not return.

Sooner or later you will be asking yourself, why did I do this?¨

If this doesn´t happen then your staff will be stealing from you unless you are there 24 / 7 and doing it all yourself anyway....

[Hedghog]

woning a business in Thailand as a foreigner is only shady. You can always expect trouble. A miriacle if you don't have any but that just means you haven't been here long enough and been successful.

Utter tripe.

[ttthailand]

If your business is 100% legal and you are not twisting any laws, charging bar-fines, foreigners working without permits, opening past hours, etc you will be fine. Also make sure you have all required licenses and if owned by LImited Company pay your taxes.

Shake downs in Thailand are normally seen by people breaking laws and trying to get away with it. If you are too successful you may need some protection but a red police box put in front with a small monthly donation will help. Police stop by a few times a day and sign book.

[Thakkar]

is there a shady underside of owning a business in Thailand?

There is. It's where I hang my hammock for my afternoon nap when things are generally slow.

T

[KhnomKhnom]

Recommend any biz do this

- have a Thai front person, mandatory.

-rent from important local person like village head man, very helpful.

-give small gifts to everyone you deal with... local police, headman, postal delivery, cooking gas delivery, local tuffs who stand in your street, and any others important to your success. Your Thai front man MUST know how to do this as his first and main job with you. Do this often and deliver in person, you. mandatory.

-if your biz deals with public, consider get your main Thai to hire a good street fighter to hang around after dark, helpful.

-work hard to get proper insurance, not easy but can be done, not cheap, helpful only when you need it.

-And face the fact that you will never really own your biz; you will just be there to provide needed cash and stand around a lot.

If you do not speak Thai, firmly and finally, FORGET ABOUT IT !

[DoDoey]

OK, I´ll bite:

Let´s say you open a coffee shop, at first you are not a threat or competition to anyone it all goes fine for a year or two. Then, some Thai person with influence¨ of some sort sees you are making money, so (as they do) they copy you. The trouble is they can not supply the same service as you and then wonder why they are not making money when you are obviously successful (NO comprehension of what is happening).

So he goes and sees cousin Somchai his police cousin, windows get broken, access gets blocked, your customers are being harassed (despite complaints to the police, nothing is done). You have a problem one night with young hoodlums robbing your shop, despite the timely phone call no one arrives from the police station for 2 hours!! You till has been emptied, you shop vandalized, your staff harassed and your customers have been terrorized to the extent they will not return.

Sooner or later you will be asking yourself, why did I do this?¨

If this doesn´t happen then your staff will be stealing from you unless you are there 24 / 7 and doing it all yourself anyway....

Is this story based on fact, or is it the fiction it appears to be? If it's not fiction, then please state some facts. Who did this happen to? What city? When? What was the final outcome? Sounds like TVF Thai bashing to me. This is what I want to figure out, is there any reality to "mafia" or "protection" claims? Or is it the product of a bunch of bitter farts?

[JingerBen]

Here's a piece of advice dude...

For farangs, Thailand is a good place to spend money, not make it.

The business landscape is a minefield strewn with banana peels.

[reptile91602]

Anyone that tells you it is safe to run a business, as a foreigner, in Thailand is full of it!!!!, but go ahead and listen to them and have a great time. Enjoy your life.

[PattayaPhom]

On Koh Chang seven years ago, I knew a number of foreign bar or restaurant owners.

Not one is still in business. Two are dead.

I was in Koh Chang last week, didn't strike me like that.....your two dead aquaintences were shot?

[roamer]

Anyone that tells you it is safe to run a business, as a foreigner, in Thailand is full of it!!!!, but go ahead and listen to them and have a great time. Enjoy your life.

Yeah, will pass on your pearls of wisdom to Ulysses G in his bookshop in CM next time I'm there, he's only been there around 25 years or so. Countless others I can think of as well in various businesses outside the bar scene. You're right though, there are some foreigners in LOS that are full of it....

Edited February 14, 2015 by roamer

[DoDoey]

This post was supposed to be about the supposed foreign mafia in Thailand, but it's been hijacked into a discussion on what a bad idea it is to open a business in Thailand, and probably by people who have never owned a business here. I simply added the bit about musing over a bar for context.

Answer the questions at the top of the page please.

[steven100]

What a silly question. Of course all businesses in Thailand have some dirty water in their bucket.

Just some more than others.

[RigPig]

OK, I´ll bite:

Let´s say you open a coffee shop, at first you are not a threat or competition to anyone it all goes fine for a year or two. Then, some Thai person with influence¨ of some sort sees you are making money, so (as they do) they copy you. The trouble is they can not supply the same service as you and then wonder why they are not making money when you are obviously successful (NO comprehension of what is happening).

So he goes and sees cousin Somchai his police cousin, windows get broken, access gets blocked, your customers are being harassed (despite complaints to the police, nothing is done). You have a problem one night with young hoodlums robbing your shop, despite the timely phone call no one arrives from the police station for 2 hours!! You till has been emptied, you shop vandalized, your staff harassed and your customers have been terrorized to the extent they will not return.

Sooner or later you will be asking yourself, why did I do this?¨

If this doesn´t happen then your staff will be stealing from you unless you are there 24 / 7 and doing it all yourself anyway....

Is this story based on fact, or is it the fiction it appears to be? If it's not fiction, then please state some facts. Who did this happen to? What city? When? What was the final outcome? Sounds like TVF Thai bashing to me. This is what I want to figure out, is there any reality to "mafia" or "protection" claims? Or is it the product of a bunch of bitter farts?

It happened to me in Phuket (Kata). To cut it short, the guy built a brick wall so that the guests in my guesthouse couldn´t get out, I had to close the shop and guesthouse.

[Crazy chef 1]

On Koh Chang seven years ago, I knew a number of foreign bar or restaurant owners.

Not one is still in business. Two are dead.

Too much booze???

[HeijoshinCool]

On Koh Chang seven years ago, I knew a number of foreign bar or restaurant owners.

Not one is still in business. Two are dead.

I was in Koh Chang last week, didn't strike me like that.....your two dead aquaintences were shot?

.

Like what? What did you expect to see that would show you what is done in private?

One was beaten to death by his own employees, using pool cues, because he would not give them yet another pay advance. The other was a drowning by "accident." A handful of others left the country under threat, or fear for their well-being, or after losing money.

People on this thread seem to think all of this is visible to the everyday Joe by simply sitting down at a bar for a beer; or that "mafia" is involved. That because they don't casually see it, it doesn't exist.

"Mafia" was the wrong word for the OP to chose.

[Crazy chef 1]

What a silly question. Of course all businesses in Thailand have some dirty water in their bucket.

Just some more than others.

Especially the street food stalls...

[khonlanna]

I don't know about Turkish Mafia, but there are some foreign 'families'. Most of them are Chinese ( as far as I know ) and not well organized like Mafias. Years ago, when Thailand introduced the regulation about car seat belts, I tried to import second-hand seat belts from Japan to sell here, but a friend of mine who ran a used car business warned me about them, told me to go through some Chinese business people in the industry. Back then, Koh Samui was notorious for assasination. Local business men (mostly bangalow owners ) were assassinated almost every week for a while. I'm sure some of the expats remember this.

[Pcall]

Ok I am a new food take away owner in a naughty bar area took over the business in sept last 2nd night police check drink licence which was up date no hassle so far like previous posts if your running your business within the law why should u have to pay bribes

early days only been 5 months but so far so good

Regarding buying bar do your research many bars up for sale for many months no takers

speaking to fellow bar owners taking this year down about half on last year nough said