Recent shooting on Samui? Turkish Mafia? Protection? Security guards with shotguns?

[RigPig]

You forgot to mention greedy landlords who see success and decide to double the rent in the middle of your lease. If you say no thanks they they have electricity or water fiddled with etc etc. It all goes on. Or they want their brother cousin etc to move in and make money from all your good work. All this happens. Thais are very jealous people...even among themselves

BS , if you have a good contract they can't do that. Read the small print before you sign,

BS I saw both contracts and BOTH landlords, who I knew fairly well agreed with me and told him to dismantle the wall. They went with him to the police station and came back and said there was nothing they could do and apologized to me. It didn´t help the tennents I had who couldn´t get out of their rooms. I had to refund their money of course and they had to find other accommodation at 8pm.

It seemed to me the landlords had been warned off, their attitudes changed dramatically. This guy knew someone at the police station.

So how do you suggest it could have been rectified? With a prolonged court case? By the time that had happened, even assuming a win, it would have been all over and more money down the toilet !! Contracts are worthless unless you can enforce them and if the police will not get involved what hope have you got?

I have seen people get into yearly contracts simply because premises are hard to come by in good locations. The landlord plays the game and as soon as the business becomes profitable take it over. Yes buyer beware I guess, but isn´t that what this thread is about? NEVER assume it wont happen.....

EDIT to add :

I have also seen people win court cases and / or get judgements from the police. Guys with Thai wives even, they just stop paying!! What do you do then? Go to the police every second month? Pay the police every time it happens? NEVER EVER forget, they are Thai, you are not !! Thailand is for Thais !!!

I hope this is a reality check....

Getting into yearly contracts is very stupid for a business.

And they know it and they also know that if you want it you will capitulate, because people are too trusting !!

I also notice you NEVER addressed my other questions, so I must assume your previous statement of BS is now moot?

[RigPig]

We belong to a group of local business owners who meet once a month to discuss business and other things.

this group pays the police to come by our shop about every two hours a day.

the police sign a notebook and we turn this in to the group every month.

The police come in our shop and sit for a long time sometimes and are very friendly to me.

I think the best way to protect yourself is to pay the police to come by and do the same as we do.

So has anything happened where you have needed the police you are paying yet? Are they going to give ´value for money¨, or has that yet to be tested. I lived in a condo block once where we did the same thing, the place had 2 units burgled and nothing was really done about it. So appeasing them is one thing, but why if they don´t deliver the goods? Turning up at some odd time and signing the book and falsifying the time is just easy money !! 1 of the units was burgled at the time when they ¨supposedly¨ signed the book....

[FritsSikkink]

You forgot to mention greedy landlords who see success and decide to double the rent in the middle of your lease. If you say no thanks they they have electricity or water fiddled with etc etc. It all goes on. Or they want their brother cousin etc to move in and make money from all your good work. All this happens. Thais are very jealous people...even among themselves

Getting into yearly contracts is very stupid for a business.

And they know it and they also know that if you want it you will capitulate, because people are too trusting !!

I also notice you NEVER addressed my other questions, so I must assume your previous statement of BS is now moot?

I answered a statement about doubling the rent in the middle of a lease from Icecool, not a question from you.

[FritsSikkink]

OK, I´ll bite:

Let´s say you open a coffee shop, at first you are not a threat or competition to anyone it all goes fine for a year or two. Then, some Thai person with influence¨ of some sort sees you are making money, so (as they do) they copy you. The trouble is they can not supply the same service as you and then wonder why they are not making money when you are obviously successful (NO comprehension of what is happening).

So he goes and sees cousin Somchai his police cousin, windows get broken, access gets blocked, your customers are being harassed (despite complaints to the police, nothing is done). You have a problem one night with young hoodlums robbing your shop, despite the timely phone call no one arrives from the police station for 2 hours!! You till has been emptied, you shop vandalized, your staff harassed and your customers have been terrorized to the extent they will not return.

Sooner or later you will be asking yourself, why did I do this?¨

If this doesn´t happen then your staff will be stealing from you unless you are there 24 / 7 and doing it all yourself anyway....

Is this story based on fact, or is it the fiction it appears to be? If it's not fiction, then please state some facts. Who did this happen to? What city? When? What was the final outcome? Sounds like TVF Thai bashing to me. This is what I want to figure out, is there any reality to "mafia" or "protection" claims? Or is it the product of a bunch of bitter farts?

It happened to me in Phuket (Kata). To cut it short, the guy built a brick wall so that the guests in my guesthouse couldn´t get out, I had to close the shop and guesthouse.

He can built a wall on his own land. If you leased that part of the land too, your contract was no good. He shouldn't be able to stop you from exploiting that shop/guesthouse without a massive fine.

[nithisa78]

Recommend any biz do this

- have a Thai front person, mandatory.

-rent from important local person like village head man, very helpful.

-give small gifts to everyone you deal with... local police, headman, postal delivery, cooking gas delivery, local tuffs who stand in your street, and any others important to your success. Your Thai front man MUST know how to do this as his first and main job with you. Do this often and deliver in person, you. mandatory.

-if your biz deals with public, consider get your main Thai to hire a good street fighter to hang around after dark, helpful.

-work hard to get proper insurance, not easy but can be done, not cheap, helpful only when you need it.

-And face the fact that you will never really own your biz; you will just be there to provide needed cash and stand around a lot.

If you do not speak Thai, firmly and finally, FORGET ABOUT IT !

We're on the same page about much of this. Though when we are in Thailand, collecting funds first hand, there isn't one person not happy to see us (I married a Sainted woman.) My grown son is a language specialist, his dad is not. Once upon a time, while on a mission of mercy to Nicaragua, I was asked to give a speach.

I went to Don Alejandro, Senor, whenever I try to speak Spanish, all everyone does is laugh. His reply, it is good when people laugh. On that note, I gave my Spanglish speach. Everyone, everyone, laughed. Like in Mexico, suddenly everyone spoke English. Now my Spanglish is light years ahead of my Thai (it is a health issue.) Though, when I speak Thanglish, it is the same result. I got off to a very bad start in S.E. Asia, more than I could or would ever say here. I kept trying and everything has really worked out very well. In Thialand, I'm just myself and even without giving speeches, people are still laughing. I brush my teeth and use mouth wash, it isn't that. Maybe it is the handsome thing? Nice day.

[RigPig]

OK, I´ll bite:

Let´s say you open a coffee shop, at first you are not a threat or competition to anyone it all goes fine for a year or two. Then, some Thai person with influence¨ of some sort sees you are making money, so (as they do) they copy you. The trouble is they can not supply the same service as you and then wonder why they are not making money when you are obviously successful (NO comprehension of what is happening).

So he goes and sees cousin Somchai his police cousin, windows get broken, access gets blocked, your customers are being harassed (despite complaints to the police, nothing is done). You have a problem one night with young hoodlums robbing your shop, despite the timely phone call no one arrives from the police station for 2 hours!! You till has been emptied, you shop vandalized, your staff harassed and your customers have been terrorized to the extent they will not return.

Sooner or later you will be asking yourself, why did I do this?¨

If this doesn´t happen then your staff will be stealing from you unless you are there 24 / 7 and doing it all yourself anyway....

Is this story based on fact, or is it the fiction it appears to be? If it's not fiction, then please state some facts. Who did this happen to? What city? When? What was the final outcome? Sounds like TVF Thai bashing to me. This is what I want to figure out, is there any reality to "mafia" or "protection" claims? Or is it the product of a bunch of bitter farts?

It happened to me in Phuket (Kata). To cut it short, the guy built a brick wall so that the guests in my guesthouse couldn´t get out, I had to close the shop and guesthouse.

He can built a wall on his own land. If you leased that part of the land too, your contract was no good. He shouldn't be able to stop you from exploiting that shop/guesthouse without a massive fine.

Well as Judge Judy would say, ¨Would have, Could have, Should have¨, but the REALITY is he did and got away with it !!! Any recourse on my part would have been in a Thai court, as a civil action This did not prevent my guests, in my guesthouse from being walled in with no way out !! You assume (and as we know that just makes an ASS out of U and ME) that these people play by the rules, well guess what they don´t, and they are Thai and you are not !! ¨This not your country¨, Thailand is for Thai´s¨ check out the National Anthem ....

DO NOT be under the misapprehension that the rules will be followed or applied, that will ONLY happen when it suits (not the farang) !! You have enough money, you are rich, you can afford it.....

Believe me the contract was good, it was ¨communial ¨ access, to both premises, BOTH the Indian landlords, who backed me initially, were scared off after the visit to the police station (and they instigated the trip with this guy) !! I was warned this man was ¨connected¨ it seems that was true. I don´t believe either of the landlords (his or mine, and they were close friends) were ¨dodgy¨, but who knows, they sure as hell looked like they kept all of their ducks in a row. They knew how much they had to lose. They were not dummies that´s for sure, as most of them with that sort of money are not. I suspect they were warned if they pushed the point it could only be bad for them. So what do you do?

If for one second you think the people in this country play by the rules then you haven´t been here (or opened your eyes) long enough. Corruption is so rife and embedded here it is a joke !! But hey that´s a double edged sword too...

[chickenrunCM]

i just rent a house in the center with bar & café downstairs and apartment upstairs, the former owner told me

he paid 2x 1000 baht to the police, he never had any problem in 2 years, police warm if there is a raid about closing hours, if a problem with customers you have a telefon number to call and police will solve it, we open in 5 weeks after reconstruction, so i will see who will come to collect, all papers, licenses, permissions are up to date and correct.

[RigPig]

i just rent a house in the center with bar & café downstairs and apartment upstairs, the former owner told me

he paid 2x 1000 baht to the police, he never had any problem in 2 years, police warm if there is a raid about closing hours, if a problem with customers you have a telefon number to call and police will solve it, we open in 5 weeks after reconstruction, so i will see who will come to collect, all papers, licenses, permissions are up to date and correct.

GOOD LUCK with that !!!

Promises, promises, talk is cheap (unless you are the one paying), wait and see what happens when it hits the fan and you need them

I can send you my bank details and you can send me 2000 Baht (a week or month) and I will give you better service, I will certainly be there before the police !!!

If all your paperwork is in place and you are not breaking the law why should you pay them anything? The fact you are says it is dodgy at least from their side, and you think they will do the right thing? They are already breaking the law, what are you going to do when they don´t do the right thing? Go to the police for breach of contract? Take them to court

Walk away before you are in too deep.....

[RigPig]

I think I will open a bar.

The one thing Thailand needs is another bar, especially here in Phuket (Pattaya or Bangkok might be good too). I know a farang that is selling one cheap, he tells me he has never had a problem and it is making a REALLY good profit !!

If I spend 2 million Baht on it I am sure it will do REALLY well. My new Thai GF thinks this is a REALLY good idea, she knows some girls that can work there and she tells me she can run it for me. I will not even have to do the book work (so that way I wont need a work permit).

It is only 3 million Baht to own the lease that I have for 2 years,(at a time, there is 1 year left on the current lease) the key money is only 1 million Baht (from the 3 million) renewable at the end of the lease, and I am assured that I can rent it as long as I like!!

I don´t understand why he is letting it go so cheap !! I am just lucky he has to go home because of family problems I guess !! Right place at the right time, Thailand is definitely ¨the lucky country¨.

The PERFECT retirement plan, a small business that is run by the GF. I can´t wait !!!

[FritsSikkink]

He can built a wall on his own land. If you leased that part of the land too, your contract was no good. He shouldn't be able to stop you from exploiting that shop/guesthouse without a massive fine.

If for one second you think the people in this country play by the rules then you haven´t been here (or opened your eyes) long enough. Corruption is so rife and embedded here it is a joke !! But hey that´s a double edged sword too...

I am married with a Thai , have children, speak and read the language. I am good friends with (most of) my inlaws. I know a lot of other Thai people, connected, police and army. I grew up in the redlight area of Amsterdam. You seem to be not a very good businessman, who doesn't know his way around a couple of problems.

[HeijoshinCool]

I am married with a Thai , have children, speak and read the language. I am good friends with (most of) my inlaws. I know a lot of other Thai people, connected, police and army. I grew up in the redlight area of Amsterdam. You seem to be not a very good businessman, who doesn't know his way around a couple of problems.

.

All that, and you still give bad advice ….

[RigPig]

He can built a wall on his own land. If you leased that part of the land too, your contract was no good. He shouldn't be able to stop you from exploiting that shop/guesthouse without a massive fine.

If for one second you think the people in this country play by the rules then you haven´t been here (or opened your eyes) long enough. Corruption is so rife and embedded here it is a joke !! But hey that´s a double edged sword too...

I am married with a Thai , have children, speak and read the language. I am good friends with (most of) my inlaws. I know a lot of other Thai people, connected, police and army. I grew up in the redlight area of Amsterdam. You seem to be not a very good businessman, who doesn't know his way around a couple of problems.

REALLY ???

From someone who can not (does not want to) answer direct questions, I find that astounding.

I am glad you are married to a Thai and have children (and are lucky enough to know people of influence, (mafia types)), but I would suggest that if it hits the fan and it becomes a case of you against them I know where I will be putting my money on the outcome !!

As for ¨know a lot of other Thai people, connected, police and army.¨, so you are in with the local mafia?

Once your money has been expended and your usefulness exhausted you will be in the gutter !! (I bet you bought the house and land in your wife´s name)

If you don´t believe me tell your wife and kids that something bad has happened and you don´t have any money anymore and she has to go to work as you can not, she will have to be the bread winner as you don´t have a work permit. Tell her you will have to sell the house and land to pay your debts so you don´t go to jail .

Speaking, reading and writing Thai will make no difference, believe me, so don´t think you are ¨hollier than thou¨!!

Coming from where you do (the red light district in Amsterdam) I would have thought you would have known better !! But I guess just like all of us you fell into the trap of ¨it wont happen to me, I am too smart¨.

Coming on this forum and telling me how ¨connected¨ you THINK you are does not impress me, you are just another ATM that can´t see the forest for the trees.

Your original post started with BS, well let me tell you, whether you like it, want to admit it or not, it is not BS. You have posted nothing that refutes my answers to your claims, and all you can do is tell everyone how your world is (as perceived by you, and only you).

Good luck, stay safe and watch your back, oh but you came from the red light districs in Holland so I don´t need to tell you that....

[RigPig]

He can built a wall on his own land. If you leased that part of the land too, your contract was no good. He shouldn't be able to stop you from exploiting that shop/guesthouse without a massive fine.

If for one second you think the people in this country play by the rules then you haven´t been here (or opened your eyes) long enough. Corruption is so rife and embedded here it is a joke !! But hey that´s a double edged sword too...

I am married with a Thai , have children, speak and read the language. I am good friends with (most of) my inlaws. I know a lot of other Thai people, connected, police and army. I grew up in the redlight area of Amsterdam. You seem to be not a very good businessman, who doesn't know his way around a couple of problems.

I apologize, but unlike yourself, I tried to answer all of your questions and point out where your ¨logic¨ was deficient. However I forgot this one :

¨You seem to be not a very good businessman, who doesn't know his way around a couple of problems.¨

Well I am no Bill Gates or Rockafeller and am probably too trusting and honest. I may also be guilty of expecting to be treated as I treat other people. But I have an associate diploma in business and majored in commercial law, i can read and interpret a contract. So I guess you are right I am not a very good businessman, I am not ruthless enough !!

I do not have your connections with the police and army (which is what it would have taken to come out on top of this situation, and who knows how high up the other guys connections went?)and to be frank do not want them, (again not a good businessman) but I can support myself and am happy with what I have so I guess that is OK.

But I do believe I am a realist, which is more than I can say for some people......

I refuse to give in to corruption at this level and feel it is what is dragging this country down !!

Once again I guess that makes me not a very good businessman, but I can sleep at night....

Edited because keyboard playing up...

Edited February 15, 2015 by RigPig

[FritsSikkink]

He can built a wall on his own land. If you leased that part of the land too, your contract was no good. He shouldn't be able to stop you from exploiting that shop/guesthouse without a massive fine.

If for one second you think the people in this country play by the rules then you haven´t been here (or opened your eyes) long enough. Corruption is so rife and embedded here it is a joke !! But hey that´s a double edged sword too...

I am married with a Thai , have children, speak and read the language. I am good friends with (most of) my inlaws. I know a lot of other Thai people, connected, police and army. I grew up in the redlight area of Amsterdam. You seem to be not a very good businessman, who doesn't know his way around a couple of problems.

REALLY ???

From someone who can not (does not want to) answer direct questions, I find that astounding.

I am glad you are married to a Thai and have children (and are lucky enough to know people of influence, (mafia types)), but I would suggest that if it hits the fan and it becomes a case of you against them I know where I will be putting my money on the outcome !!

As for ¨know a lot of other Thai people, connected, police and army.¨, so you are in with the local mafia?

Once your money has been expended and your usefulness exhausted you will be in the gutter !! (I bet you bought the house and land in your wife´s name)

If you don´t believe me tell your wife and kids that something bad has happened and you don´t have any money anymore and she has to go to work as you can not, she will have to be the bread winner as you don´t have a work permit. Tell her you will have to sell the house and land to pay your debts so you don´t go to jail .

Speaking, reading and writing Thai will make no difference, believe me, so don´t think you are ¨hollier than thou¨!!

Coming from where you do (the red light district in Amsterdam) I would have thought you would have known better !! But I guess just like all of us you fell into the trap of ¨it wont happen to me, I am too smart¨.

Coming on this forum and telling me how ¨connected¨ you THINK you are does not impress me, you are just another ATM that can´t see the forest for the trees.

Your original post started with BS, well let me tell you, whether you like it, want to admit it or not, it is not BS. You have posted nothing that refutes my answers to your claims, and all you can do is tell everyone how your world is (as perceived by you, and only you).

Good luck, stay safe and watch your back, oh but you came from the red light districs in Holland so I don´t need to tell you that..

I am not going to react to all you assumptions in this post, just was reacting on your other assumtion " you haven´t been here (or opened your eyes) long enough"

[RigPig]

If for one second you think the people in this country play by the rules then you haven´t been here (or opened your eyes) long enough. Corruption is so rife and embedded here it is a joke !! But hey that´s a double edged sword too...

I am married with a Thai , have children, speak and read the language. I am good friends with (most of) my inlaws. I know a lot of other Thai people, connected, police and army. I grew up in the redlight area of Amsterdam. You seem to be not a very good businessman, who doesn't know his way around a couple of problems.

REALLY ???

From someone who can not (does not want to) answer direct questions, I find that astounding.

I am glad you are married to a Thai and have children (and are lucky enough to know people of influence, (mafia types)), but I would suggest that if it hits the fan and it becomes a case of you against them I know where I will be putting my money on the outcome !!

As for ¨know a lot of other Thai people, connected, police and army.¨, so you are in with the local mafia?

Once your money has been expended and your usefulness exhausted you will be in the gutter !! (I bet you bought the house and land in your wife´s name)

If you don´t believe me tell your wife and kids that something bad has happened and you don´t have any money anymore and she has to go to work as you can not, she will have to be the bread winner as you don´t have a work permit. Tell her you will have to sell the house and land to pay your debts so you don´t go to jail .

Speaking, reading and writing Thai will make no difference, believe me, so don´t think you are ¨hollier than thou¨!!

Coming from where you do (the red light district in Amsterdam) I would have thought you would have known better !! But I guess just like all of us you fell into the trap of ¨it wont happen to me, I am too smart¨.

Coming on this forum and telling me how ¨connected¨ you THINK you are does not impress me, you are just another ATM that can´t see the forest for the trees.

Your original post started with BS, well let me tell you, whether you like it, want to admit it or not, it is not BS. You have posted nothing that refutes my answers to your claims, and all you can do is tell everyone how your world is (as perceived by you, and only you).

Good luck, stay safe and watch your back, oh but you came from the red light districs in Holland so I don´t need to tell you that..

I am not going to react to all you assumptions in this post, just was reacting on your other assumtion " you haven´t been here (or opened your eyes) long enough"

These are not assumptions, only you have made assumptions. You have tried to take the easy way out and ¨fob¨ the questions off because you have no answers !!

If you do then do the right thing and state them !! Answer the assumptions (questions) or at least be man enough (and coming from somewhere as hard as the ¨red light districts¨ of Amsterdam), that should not be too difficult or admit you are wrong !!!.

You started this by stating that my post was BS, that is fine, just show everyone why..... if you can.

The only way you have come up with so far is to be connected with people in the police or the army, well that is a great solution. How do you suggest we all accomplish that? Marry your wife?

Put up or shut up, simple !!! Don´t disparage other people without cause, that is all I ask

[RigPig]

Thanks for the advice. Buying a bar in Jomtien is not likely, only something I've pondered once or twice. My questions are about the supposed mafia; Russian, Turkish, whatever. Reading these posts, you would imagine Thailand is like the wild west, or Chicago in the 1930s. I just don't see any of that here in Bangkok, and wonder how real it is. I haven't seen it in Jomtien, or Chiang Mai for that matter. Could some of you locals of Pattaya, Phuket, Samui kindly explain the reality of the foreign mob here in Thailand? I could easily imagine Thai mafia, but I can't see Thai mafia putting up with foreign mafia. It would be too easy to get rid of them, one phone call to Uncle hiso policeman.

Now, I have seen plenty of thuggish Russians. They're loud and drunk, and I steer clear of them, but that doesn't make them mafia. Are these the 'mafia' so many speak of? Simple tourists?

My apologies, for some reason I could not answer the OP directly, however as to your Op :

¨Greetings TV Forum members. I posting these questions after reading about the recent shooting on Koh Samui involving a Turkish man, who was reportedly "mafia who protected foreign business owners". My questions are not about this particular incident, but rather the shady underside of owning a business in Thailand.

Why would a farang business owner need protection, and from whom? I can imagine a disco or go go bar needing this, but does this extend to small business, like guest houses or pubs? Granted I've never been to Samui or Phuket, but I live in Bangkok and have visited Jomtien a few times. I've often thought about buying a small bar, like the ones you see near the beach on Jomtien, do those kind of places need protection, or are they hustled by mafia? If so, to what extent?

On Samui, why would a security guard at a pub carry a shotgun? I've never seen this in anywhere in Thailand.

Thanks!¨

I guess your question about Turkish mafia have been answered, in another thread it seems it was a set up by a Thai that had a grudge of some sort. So, the word mafia is used in Thailand in a different context to the usual cosa nostra, Columbian or Russian type of organization.

As stated in other parts of this thread, the REAL danger is from ¨connected¨ Thais with a chip on their shoulder.

I hope this helps, as usual in life it will ALWAYS come from where you least expect it. ¨Keep your friends close and your enemies closer¨ comes to mind !!

Take care and watch your back......

[FritsSikkink]

REALLY ???

From someone who can not (does not want to) answer direct questions, I find that astounding.

I am glad you are married to a Thai and have children (and are lucky enough to know people of influence, (mafia types)), but I would suggest that if it hits the fan and it becomes a case of you against them I know where I will be putting my money on the outcome !!

As for ¨know a lot of other Thai people, connected, police and army.¨, so you are in with the local mafia?

Once your money has been expended and your usefulness exhausted you will be in the gutter !! (I bet you bought the house and land in your wife´s name)

If you don´t believe me tell your wife and kids that something bad has happened and you don´t have any money anymore and she has to go to work as you can not, she will have to be the bread winner as you don´t have a work permit. Tell her you will have to sell the house and land to pay your debts so you don´t go to jail .

Speaking, reading and writing Thai will make no difference, believe me, so don´t think you are ¨hollier than thou¨!!

Coming from where you do (the red light district in Amsterdam) I would have thought you would have known better !! But I guess just like all of us you fell into the trap of ¨it wont happen to me, I am too smart¨.

Coming on this forum and telling me how ¨connected¨ you THINK you are does not impress me, you are just another ATM that can´t see the forest for the trees.

Your original post started with BS, well let me tell you, whether you like it, want to admit it or not, it is not BS. You have posted nothing that refutes my answers to your claims, and all you can do is tell everyone how your world is (as perceived by you, and only you).

Good luck, stay safe and watch your back, oh but you came from the red light districs in Holland so I don´t need to tell you that..

I am not going to react to all you assumptions in this post, just was reacting on your other assumtion " you haven´t been here (or opened your eyes) long enough"

These are not assumptions, only you have made assumptions. You have tried to take the easy way out and ¨fob¨ the questions off because you have no answers !!

If you do then do the right thing and state them !! Answer the assumptions (questions) or at least be man enough (and coming from somewhere as hard as the ¨red light districts¨ of Amsterdam), that should not be too difficult or admit you are wrong !!!.

You started this by stating that my post was BS, that is fine, just show everyone why..... if you can.

The only way you have come up with so far is to be connected with people in the police or the army, well that is a great solution. How do you suggest we all accomplish that? Marry your wife?

Put up or shut up, simple !!! Don´t disparage other people without cause, that is all I ask

For somebody with an associate diploma in business and majored in commercial law you have very bad reading skills.

My BS call was on a reply from Icecool not yours (as i said before)

You made no assumtions? What about:

1. you will be in the gutter !! (I bet you bought the house and land in your wife´s name)
2. she has to go to work as you can not, she will have to be the bread winner as you don´t have a work permit.
3. Tell her you will have to sell the house and land to pay your debts so you don´t go to jail .
4. like all of us you fell into the trap of ¨it wont happen to me, I am too smart¨.
5. you are just another ATM that can´t see the forest for the trees.

[Lukecan]

Yes we Turkish people offer protection to farang business owners because they don't know how to deal with the police and local mafia. PM me if you need "consultation"

[RigPig]

REALLY ???

From someone who can not (does not want to) answer direct questions, I find that astounding.

I am glad you are married to a Thai and have children (and are lucky enough to know people of influence, (mafia types)), but I would suggest that if it hits the fan and it becomes a case of you against them I know where I will be putting my money on the outcome !!

As for ¨know a lot of other Thai people, connected, police and army.¨, so you are in with the local mafia?

Once your money has been expended and your usefulness exhausted you will be in the gutter !! (I bet you bought the house and land in your wife´s name)

If you don´t believe me tell your wife and kids that something bad has happened and you don´t have any money anymore and she has to go to work as you can not, she will have to be the bread winner as you don´t have a work permit. Tell her you will have to sell the house and land to pay your debts so you don´t go to jail .

Speaking, reading and writing Thai will make no difference, believe me, so don´t think you are ¨hollier than thou¨!!

Coming from where you do (the red light district in Amsterdam) I would have thought you would have known better !! But I guess just like all of us you fell into the trap of ¨it wont happen to me, I am too smart¨.

Coming on this forum and telling me how ¨connected¨ you THINK you are does not impress me, you are just another ATM that can´t see the forest for the trees.

Your original post started with BS, well let me tell you, whether you like it, want to admit it or not, it is not BS. You have posted nothing that refutes my answers to your claims, and all you can do is tell everyone how your world is (as perceived by you, and only you).

Good luck, stay safe and watch your back, oh but you came from the red light districs in Holland so I don´t need to tell you that..

I am not going to react to all you assumptions in this post, just was reacting on your other assumtion " you haven´t been here (or opened your eyes) long enough"

These are not assumptions, only you have made assumptions. You have tried to take the easy way out and ¨fob¨ the questions off because you have no answers !!

If you do then do the right thing and state them !! Answer the assumptions (questions) or at least be man enough (and coming from somewhere as hard as the ¨red light districts¨ of Amsterdam), that should not be too difficult or admit you are wrong !!!.

You started this by stating that my post was BS, that is fine, just show everyone why..... if you can.

The only way you have come up with so far is to be connected with people in the police or the army, well that is a great solution. How do you suggest we all accomplish that? Marry your wife?

Put up or shut up, simple !!! Don´t disparage other people without cause, that is all I ask

For somebody with an associate diploma in business and majored in commercial law you have very bad reading skills.

My BS call was on a reply from Icecool not yours (as i said before)

You made no assumtions? What about:

1. you will be in the gutter !! (I bet you bought the house and land in your wife´s name)
2. she has to go to work as you can not, she will have to be the bread winner as you don´t have a work permit.
3. Tell her you will have to sell the house and land to pay your debts so you don´t go to jail .
4. like all of us you fell into the trap of ¨it wont happen to me, I am too smart¨.
5. you are just another ATM that can´t see the forest for the trees.

1. you will be in the gutter !! (I bet you bought the house and land in your wife´s name )So did you, no denial...
2. she has to go to work as you can not, she will have to be the bread winner as you don´t have a work permit.
3. Tell her you will have to sell the house and land to pay your debts so you don´t go to jail .
4. like all of us you fell into the trap of ¨it wont happen to me, I am too smart¨. Did you, no denial...
5. you are just another ATM that can´t see the forest for the trees. Are you, no denial...

The other 2 (2 & 3) are ont assumptions, they were a means to proving a point !! The point being, your life is an illusion, if you disagree then try it and let us see what happens, if I was right or not. I hope I am wrong... but I doubt it....

I notice you have taken things a bit out of context for convenience, and to suit yourself, however we can all go back and read the original post (#72 for anyone who is interested)

But strangely enough no real answers still... what a surprise !! It is hard to argue against the facts and truth huh...

Do you still claim my original post was BS as your first response was? If so tell me where I was (am) wrong !!!

Put up or shut up, but don´t make stupid statements you can´t justify. If you can justify your original statement do so, I am big enough to admit when I am wrong and apologize accordingly, are you?

Just to refresh your memory and summarize it started from :

My posts...

Let´s say you open a coffee shop, at first you are not a threat or competition to anyone it all goes fine for a year or two. Then, some Thai person with influence¨ of some sort sees you are making money, so (as they do) they copy you. The trouble is they can not supply the same service as you and then wonder why they are not making money when you are obviously successful (NO comprehension of what is happening).

So he goes and sees cousin Somchai his police cousin, windows get broken, access gets blocked, your customers are being harassed (despite complaints to the police, nothing is done). You have a problem one night with young hoodlums robbing your shop, despite the timely phone call no one arrives from the police station for 2 hours!! You till has been emptied, you shop vandalized, your staff harassed and your customers have been terrorized to the extent they will not return.

Sooner or later you will be asking yourself, why did I do this?¨

If this doesn´t happen then your staff will be stealing from you unless you are there 24 / 7 and doing it all yourself anyway....

Your reply :

He can built a wall on his own land. If you leased that part of the land too, your contract was no good. He shouldn't be able to stop you from exploiting that shop/guesthouse without a massive fine.

Me :

Well as Judge Judy would say, ¨Would have, Could have, Should have¨, but the REALITY is he did and got away with it !!! Any recourse on my part would have been in a Thai court, as a civil action This did not prevent my guests, in my guesthouse from being walled in with no way out !! You assume (and as we know that just makes an ASS out of U and ME) that these people play by the rules, well guess what they don´t, and they are Thai and you are not !! ¨This not your country¨, Thailand is for Thai´s¨ check out the National Anthem ....

DO NOT be under the misapprehension that the rules will be followed or applied, that will ONLY happen when it suits (not the farang) !! You have enough money, you are rich, you can afford it.....

Believe me the contract was good, it was ¨communial ¨ access, to both premises, BOTH the Indian landlords, who backed me initially, were scared off after the visit to the police station (and they instigated the trip with this guy) !! I was warned this man was ¨connected¨ it seems that was true. I don´t believe either of the landlords (his or mine, and they were close friends) were ¨dodgy¨, but who knows, they sure as hell looked like they kept all of their ducks in a row. They knew how much they had to lose. They were not dummies that´s for sure, as most of them with that sort of money are not. I suspect they were warned if they pushed the point it could only be bad for them. So what do you do?

If for one second you think the people in this country play by the rules then you haven´t been here (or opened your eyes) long enough. Corruption is so rife and embedded here it is a joke !! But hey that´s a double edged sword too...

Your reply :

I am married with a Thai , have children, speak and read the language. I am good friends with (most of) my inlaws. I know a lot of other Thai people, connected, police and army. I grew up in the redlight area of Amsterdam. You seem to be not a very good businessman, who doesn't know his way around a couple of problems.

Me :

You forgot to mention greedy landlords who see success and decide to double the rent in the middle of your lease. If you say no thanks they they have electricity or water fiddled with etc etc. It all goes on. Or they want their brother cousin etc to move in and make money from all your good work. All this happens. Thais are very jealous people...even among themselves

Your reply :

BS , if you have a good contract they can't do that. Read the small print before you sign,

So do you still think this is fact after all the other posts?

I eagerly await your detailed response or look forward to further dodging the facts and questions, which I personally think will be the result. But hey that is only an assumption.....

Oh and as for

¨For somebody with an associate diploma in business and majored in commercial law you have very bad reading skills.

My BS call was on a reply from Icecool not yours (as i said before)¨

You are correct and I apologize, however I received the notification to thread #45 which was addressed to me, and as I had agreed with ¨Icecool¨, I took your reply to be to both of us. This does not explain however why you have not answered directly any of the post since then, which were directed directly to me...

¨

Edited to add

Edited February 15, 2015 by RigPig

[DoDoey]

OK, I´ll bite:

Let´s say you open a coffee shop, at first you are not a threat or competition to anyone it all goes fine for a year or two. Then, some Thai person with influence¨ of some sort sees you are making money, so (as they do) they copy you. The trouble is they can not supply the same service as you and then wonder why they are not making money when you are obviously successful (NO comprehension of what is happening).

So he goes and sees cousin Somchai his police cousin, windows get broken, access gets blocked, your customers are being harassed (despite complaints to the police, nothing is done). You have a problem one night with young hoodlums robbing your shop, despite the timely phone call no one arrives from the police station for 2 hours!! You till has been emptied, you shop vandalized, your staff harassed and your customers have been terrorized to the extent they will not return.

Sooner or later you will be asking yourself, why did I do this?¨

If this doesn´t happen then your staff will be stealing from you unless you are there 24 / 7 and doing it all yourself anyway....

You forgot to mention greedy landlords who see success and decide to double the rent in the middle of your lease. If you say no thanks they they have electricity or water fiddled with etc etc. It all goes on. Or they want their brother cousin etc to move in and make money from all your good work. All this happens. Thais are very jealous people...even among themselves

BS , if you have a good contract they can't do that. Read the small print before you sign,

BS I saw both contracts and BOTH landlords, who I knew fairly well agreed with me and told him to dismantle the wall. They went with him to the police station and came back and said there was nothing they could do and apologized to me. It didn´t help the tennents I had who couldn´t get out of their rooms. I had to refund their money of course and they had to find other accommodation at 8pm.

It seemed to me the landlords had been warned off, their attitudes changed dramatically. This guy knew someone at the police station.

So how do you suggest it could have been rectified? With a prolonged court case? By the time that had happened, even assuming a win, it would have been all over and more money down the toilet !! Contracts are worthless unless you can enforce them and if the police will not get involved what hope have you got?

I have seen people get into yearly contracts simply because premises are hard to come by in good locations. The landlord plays the game and as soon as the business becomes profitable take it over. Yes buyer beware I guess, but isn´t that what this thread is about? NEVER assume it wont happen.....

EDIT to add :

I have also seen people win court cases and / or get judgements from the police. Guys with Thai wives even, they just stop paying!! What do you do then? Go to the police every second month? Pay the police every time it happens? NEVER EVER forget, they are Thai, you are not !! Thailand is for Thais !!!

I hope this is a reality check....

I have to call 'some' BS on this too. Since you insist on high-jacking my post and making it about owning a business in Thailand...

The facts, as you state:

You bought a guesthouse which was, admittedly, not well positioned to receive customers, unless they crossed a neighbor's threshold. Then, you started to have some success, and said neighbor decided to 'brick in' your customers. You, instead of fighting for your property, albeit rented, decided it was best to walk away even though you were in the right. You didn't want to fuss with all that litigation. I'm sorry, my friend, but unless you received this guesthouse for free, how could you walk away without a fight? I haven't seen a guesthouse anywhere in Thailand for less than 1,000,000, and even those seem sketchy. How much did you lose? Are you really saying your loss was inconsequential, and not worth any effort? Sorry, but I don't see Thailand being so corrupt that you wouldn't put in a law suit of your own, including lost income.

However, if, like the guy who bought property being serviced by a free water line who was surprised when his neighbor cut off said water supply, you bought a business without a legal right of way, then is the shame on you or is the shame on Thailand? Shame on you my friend. I'm glad you learned from your mistake, but I think you're misstating or omitting some key facts. No one walks away from a million baht, especially those to whom a million baht is not a lot of money.

[Xircal]

Looks from the latest reports that the bar manager and the security guard conspired to kill the Turkish guy because he would often cause trouble in the bar. http://www.samuitimes.com/pub-security-guard-manager-arrested-killing-turkish-man/

The only 'mafia' connection was on the part of the Turkish guy who liked to think of himself that way according to locals. He never had a gun though and the one he was found holding had been planted there by the bar manager in order to make it look like self-defence.

Unfortunately for him, several CCTV cams caught him planting the gun.

[finy]

Can't believe 'digital pikeys' get so much stick on here when people obviously know what it's like to own a physical business.

Tells you a lot about some of the posters on TV.

[samuibeachcomber]

Anyone that tells you it is safe to run a business, as a foreigner, in Thailand is full of it!!!!, but go ahead and listen to them and have a great time. Enjoy your life.

Yeah, will pass on your pearls of wisdom to Ulysses G in his bookshop in CM next time I'm there, he's only been there around 25 years or so. Countless others I can think of as well in various businesses outside the bar scene. You're right though, there are some foreigners in LOS that are full of it....

owning a book shop in thailand is no threat............thais cant read,have no interest in books so perceive it as no threat..............not unless you are "book fining" from the shop.now there's a novel idea

[oldsailor35]

Yes we Turkish people offer protection to farang business owners because they don't know how to deal with the police and local mafia. PM me if you need "consultation"

Did'nt seem to work too well for one Turk, did it !

[FritsSikkink]

Looks from the latest reports that the bar manager and the security guard conspired to kill the Turkish guy because he would often cause trouble in the bar. http://www.samuitimes.com/pub-security-guard-manager-arrested-killing-turkish-man/

The only 'mafia' connection was on the part of the Turkish guy who liked to think of himself that way according to locals. He never had a gun though and the one he was found holding had been planted there by the bar manager in order to make it look like self-defence.

Unfortunately for him, several CCTV cams caught him planting the gun.

They did plant a gun in his hand but he had is own tucked in his trouwsers.

[Xircal]

Looks from the latest reports that the bar manager and the security guard conspired to kill the Turkish guy because he would often cause trouble in the bar. http://www.samuitimes.com/pub-security-guard-manager-arrested-killing-turkish-man/

The only 'mafia' connection was on the part of the Turkish guy who liked to think of himself that way according to locals. He never had a gun though and the one he was found holding had been planted there by the bar manager in order to make it look like self-defence.

Unfortunately for him, several CCTV cams caught him planting the gun.

They did plant a gun in his hand but he had is own tucked in his trouwsers.

They took the gun out of his trousers and placed it in his hand? Where did you read that?

[FritsSikkink]

Looks from the latest reports that the bar manager and the security guard conspired to kill the Turkish guy because he would often cause trouble in the bar. http://www.samuitimes.com/pub-security-guard-manager-arrested-killing-turkish-man/

The only 'mafia' connection was on the part of the Turkish guy who liked to think of himself that way according to locals. He never had a gun though and the one he was found holding had been planted there by the bar manager in order to make it look like self-defence.

Unfortunately for him, several CCTV cams caught him planting the gun.

They did plant a gun in his hand but he had is own tucked in his trouwsers.

They took the gun out of his trousers and placed it in his hand? Where did you read that?

No they placed a gun of theirs in his hand AND he had is own gun in his pants (but the culprits never noticed that 1)

[Mencken]

Only a fool would own a business in Thaand no matter who is fronting it.

My reporting first hand

Two beer bars stolen from farang by Thai gf/wives

All bars Pat/Jom in league with cops and mafia

Animals poisoned as signal to gtfo - Phangan 94

Speedboat and other services told to close or else

List is endless really.

Leave the business to the Thai.

[FritsSikkink]

Only a fool would own a business in Thaand no matter who is fronting it.

My reporting first hand

Two beer bars stolen from farang by Thai gf/wives

All bars Pat/Jom in league with cops and mafia

Animals poisoned as signal to gtfo - Phangan 94

Speedboat and other services told to close or else

List is endless really.

Leave the business to the Thai.

Doesn't have to be like that, i know 5 people who own 5 different businesses succesfully for over 20 years.

None of them are paying the police or mafia. They do have all their paperwork sorted though and don't break any laws.