Thai prosecutors press criminal charges against ex-PM Yingluck

[cup-O-coffee]

I'd like to ask people of supporters of both factions a question,

Why is it not the priority of the law to go after the people that stole the rice and money to fund the project? why are they not in the spotlight? and lets face it,

It wasn't just politicians, there were warehouse's contractors, millers, large rice growing company's, middle men, go after them and get the money back.

Brilliant. Really. This is a pretty well crafted blueprint of just about every other major issue here... ripe for the picking depending on which government authority is the flavor of the month. Drugs, human trafficking, real estate, gambling, prostitution, tour agencies, jet ski rentals, etc; you could overlay your view onto any of these and the answers would be as clear as the driven snow. "The law" implies that there must be an objective third party that cannot be influences, coerced, etc. Do you really believe this is possible when in fact every newly elected (self-elected) gang brings their own accessories and house cleans everything in their path before unpacking?

Simply my take on this. She is out, until the pendulum swings the other way by hook, nook or cranny. Running, in an environment such as this, is arguable at best and does not make her out to be a guilty person. At this moment in time, were I in her shoes, I would be feeling my survival instincts kicking in... not to answer to any charges, but only to find a place where I am not between a rock and a hard place.

I am convinced that before we read anything, there are deals struck and webs spun behind many a closed door. Anyone naive enough to believe in justice is only kidding themselves and ignorantly thinking that that is enough impetus to freely label these people. That method is hit and miss, and that is not justice.

My take on this.

[Si Thea01]

Reported this morning on ABC news (Aust) that this is politically motivated and aimed solely at removing her and her party from politics for good.

Well that's it then, After all, Australian news journalists wouldn't lie or put their spin on anything would they?

And did they comment on the corruption, missing billions or Yinglucks failure to produce facts, figures and give meaningful answers?

You are so right about the Australian media at the moment. I live stream a radio show daily and although they are considered conservative they did report on how everyone's darling, (and UDD- Democracy- ) were unceremoniously removed by the coup. And no, they did not make any mention of the corruption, the UDD terrorists or how her government let their pals run amok and made no attempt to restrain them.

I was so incensed by the biased broadcast that I wrote to the broadcaster, Allan Jones, and provided him with both side's versions but no response to date. It actually came as a shock, as he is normally equal to giving it to either side and commenting on both but his comments this time were so biased I could not believe it. And in a nutshell, No to all your inquiries.

But our Chooka, being from south of the border, Victoria, which is getting the name of being the RED STATE would only be listening to the left wing media broadcasts 24/7. See, what did I say, left wing, he is getting his news from the ABC, the Labor Party's political broadcasting machine but paid for by all citizens.

Unfortunately, for Australia, the media is almost all left wing, as are many here on TV. Both groups have an unfetted hatred for the current PM's. What is it with the left leaners? If someone does good but it does not suit their agenda, they go out of their way to denigrate them, Australia and Thailand are the prime examples

<snip>

Edited February 20, 2015 by Jai Dee
flame deleted

[Gunna]

Robby NZ

"Indeed they do as do other countries, however these are planned subsidies called such and allowed for in budgets.

While the pledging scheme was touted a revolving out of budget scheme which would eventually run at a profit and therefor different from a subsidy.

It was said to specifically be to benefit poor farmers yet only 18% of poor farmers qualified for the scheme (World bank research) and they only got 5% of the money given to farmers.

More and more evidence is emerging of corruption within the scheme, lies have been uncovered and a huge amount of money shown to be missing.

Tell us. Should no investigations take place and no one be held responsible ?"

PLUS

Many farmers in Isaan are subsistence farmers and eat all the rice they grow, so were never going to get any money.

For those that rent land from absent landlords, their rents were increased, so they had to borrow more just to feed themselves.

Nothing was done to stop rice grown in Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar being smuggled across and sold in Thailand

No checks were put in place to make sure the same rice wasn't sold numerous times.

No proper audits or regular inspection took place, and any whistleblowers were transferred

No independent security eg government CCTV cameras or army guards for the warehouse each holding thousands of tons of rice

When the Democrats tried to say that the G2G deals were a sham in Parliament, they were told they were liars

Failure to ensure proper financing causing farmers to commit suicide

Ignoring multiple calls for the scrapping of the scheme,

Once started YS & PTP couldn't stop it or even reduce the price as they couldn't get elected without the rice farmers votes.

I would call all of this negligence and find YS guilty of that charge.

This was no rice farmers subsidy scheme, it was a scam along with the first car buyers scam and the school tablet scam to get PTP elected and then get amnesty for TS.

Her direct involvement in corruption is very doubtful, she was always to keep away and turn a blind eye and deny any corruption, while others made a financial killing.

[Halion]

They are charging her with negligence.

That means for those not paying attention...well put simply, not paying attention.

-snip-

If I was charged with a crime every time in my life that I didn't pay attention, I'd never get out of jail.

I believe that a lot of people at the warehouses and millers and trucking companies and who knows where else cooked the books on the amount of rice that was stored. I also believe a lot of the rice was stolen. Those are the thieves I want to see punished.

YS was in charge of a "scheme" to buy rice above market price and hold it, believing it would drive the world rice price up. But there were bumper crops of rice and the world became awash in rice. The price actually dropped.

I'd feel a lot better about an illegal junta bringing criminal charges if it was known that YS was involved in cooking the books and getting money from the rice scheme but I haven't heard that yet.

Please don't tell me that this isn't the junta doing this. The junta is a d word.

There are none so blind as those that will not see. You completely dismiss the fact that apart from being the self appointed leader of the rice scheme, she, on so many occasions defended it with claims of detailed investigations and audits that all was in order which were clear fabrications of the truth and were derived to mislead and falsify the facts. She had her hands on the wheel and her foot on the accelerator leading to one of the largest and most damaging acts of malfeasance and financial damage and yet you want to claim that it is simply political rhetoric. Unbelievable.

[jdinasia]

"The move is widely seen as an attempt to cripple the political machine of Yingluck's brother, former Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who was ousted in the 2006 coup, and to prevent his allies from returning to power."

The move is widely seen as seeking justice with the former PM Yingluck's self-financing scheme having lost 700 billion Baht and she frequently stating the scheme reached it's goal, she to be in charge.

In the civilized Western world it's seen as a political agenda. In the civilized world the junta is seen as illegitimate and illegal and lacking standing to prosecute anyone.

I have seen no proof that Yingluck stole the rice money herself. I have seen allegations of negligence.

This is a political cleansing to rid Thailand of the Shinawatra influence.

If criminal charges are to be brought they should have proof as to who the thieves were. Buying rice for above market price isn't illegal. Stealing that rice, cooking the books and so on is illegal. Who did that? Are they saying that YS did?

In the civilised Western World the governments still have contacts with the Thai government and are even looking forward to get part of the Infrastructure business. Did you write your representative that your country is dealing with illegitimates which opens your countries government to possible prosecution?

Mind you, the USA Envoy said the Thai government should work on perception.

Anyway, the OAG charged Ms. Yingluck who send her legal advisor as she's really too busy at the moment. Chinese New Year you know.

As for the charge, it is not stealing, it's "negligence", causing losses. Didn't you read the first to posts in this topic?

"They accused Yingluck of dereliction in overseeing a rice subsidy scheme that lost billions of dollars and temporarily cost Thailand its crown as the world's top rice exporter."

The EU spends billions a year on farm subsidies but it's not called negligence. Crops are often ploughed straight back into the ground.

Thailand is not the EU.

This program was supposed to be self funding after the first infusion of cash.

This program was rife with corruption. The PTP ( and in particular Yingluck) was aware of the losses and that the program was insolvent before they dissolved Parliament. They could have funded it by decree of the cabinet in an hour before dissolving Parliament but didn't in an attempt to hide things before the new elections. It failed.

The WTO has severe issues regarding farm subsidies in the EU and the US, but it is a different issue. The issue there is with unfair competition.

[scorecard]

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I'd like to ask people of supporters of both factions a question,
Why is it not the priority of the law to go after the people that stole the rice and money to fund the project? why are they not in the spotlight? and lets face it,
It wasn't just politicians, there were warehouse's contractors, millers, large rice growing company's, middle men, go after them and get the money back.

They are going after them. In order for yl to be found innocent would be to have her prove in court that she only relied on the report and information given to her by her ministers and staff. Then all the finger pointing will start. Because we all know deep inside all of us, she had no idea what was going on.

But Thaksin know Thai psychology, they will all feel sorry for her being duped. So she would be the best fall person for the heist.

You raise a good point. If Yingluck has to take the stand and be questioned, she will struggle with answers, She has no experience of debate or in-depth knowledge to fall back on and quite frankly has never seemed one of the sharpest tools in the shed. Under pressure she may point the finger at others, what she was told, what reports she was given. That would be a disaster for her brother - all his henchman would start squabbling and blaming one another, and many know far too much,

There's no honor among thieves - something Thaksin knows very well. Better to play this game out. Let dopes like the Aussie media fall for the politically motivated she's done nothing wrong and loves the poor line. He's still hopeful a trial and the somewhat challenged amply rich little sister being on the stand can be avoided by international pressure. Otherwise his nightmares might just come true as some start spilling all the beans.

I am surprised no one has cracked already but it cannot be far off as the heat builds up.

Well said, but unfortunately I suspect many would be very frightened to 'spill the beans' for at least he following reasons:

- Because it might well incriminate them in the same case or their cronies, etc.

- Because they are quite frightened for their own physical safety or that of their families, and with good reason.

- Have to move away from their current domicile or job because of harrassment.

Question: Would you be somewhat frightened of nuttawut, jatuporn, kornkaew and more?

IMHO there can be no doubt the nasty aspects (people) of the UDD and red machine are still there just waiting to pounce in regard to this subject, and/or to cause as much derailment of the reforms as they possibly can.

Edited February 20, 2015 by scorecard

[rubl]

They can't get Mr T (yet) so his pawn will have to pay instead.

I find it laughable the constant flow of prophecy from the yellow lovers on here that YL will scarper: all the evidence so far suggests she'll remain dignified in the face of all the elites throw at her. Let them make her a martyr, dumb schmucks that they are, and see where their 'reconciliation' is heading....

And no I'm not a red, you're all just two sides of the same dirty coin.

Right. Not-a-red talking about 'yellow lovers', 'elite' and distracting with a dignified innocent Amply Rich woman who's made a martyr simply because the OAG dares to indict her.

Ms. Yingluck positioned her RPPS as self-financing scheme only needing a revolving funds of 500 billion Baht. Defended it. Told parliament to be in charge. And now the OAG may not ask her what happened?

Doggy see bowl doggy eat = your mentality.

So by saying yellow lovers I am a red?

Yes YL has been a heck of a lot more dignified since the PDRC's antics last year right up to now, from my neutral point of view, than the tweeny hissy fits in front of the media by this other one.

And as far as I'm concerned the Shinawatras are elites too, same dirty coin as I told you already. However, I do want to see the poor properly represented and given a fair chance in life and only Taksin has recognised them (clearly for his own ends, of course, dirty Thai politician/businessman that he is).

I'm actually looking forward to the lid blowing off when a certain event occurs: it's disgusting the way Thai people have been kept in the dark for decades. Maybe it'll rip the country apart but it's about the only way anything's going to change. Reconciliation? How utterly childishly naive to think oppressing them is going to reconcile anything. Are you that lacking in insight not to see that? Ah but they didn't pull their guns yet and the threats and adjustments can safely be ignored or justified by sitting as you are on your dirty side of your dirty coin.

It's also disgusting that educated Westerners are showing support for Thai politicians. The whole lot of them should be exposed and their ill-gotten gains shared out amongst those who never had a chance for anything better than 'event days' instead of a decent basic education and the chance to be something more than a motorcycle taxi same as dad was.

But you don't care do you, because you're a yellow lover who wants to promote the status quo: that good Thai people are being fobbed off by dirty criminals who don't like being questioned about their family's assets, who don't even have to turn up to defend themselves in court because they are "too busy" destroying the economy and laying democracy to ransom - that is, of course, if their day in court ever arrives.

You fit right in: choose a winning team, join a chorus and ignore the scum on your own side of the dirty coin.

Oh boy. Struck a nerve, did I?

For a non-partisan, unbiased, objective observer you go on a lot about 'yellow lovers' and you assume a lot about posters as well.

Anyway, this highly dignified Amply Rich lady is charged. Not because of politics, but because she started a self-financing scheme while PM, defended it, stated she was in charge and only she, and managed to lose 700 billion Baht on that self-financing scheme. "negligent' and with all statements she made on 'no problems', 'no real problems', 'listened to warnings', 'taken warnings into account', 'financing arranged', 'can we borrow some more?', it would seem 'criminally negligent' is really kind. Personally I would call it 'intent to deceive and defraud'.

Her hand-picked Minister of Finance (the 'little white lies' guy) stated the day before the RPPS officially started it would cost around 440 billion Baht only with money returning from rice sales. Mid-2013 Ms. Yingluck acknowledged a loss of 230 or 320 billion Baht (forgot which, sorry). That time her Minister of Commerce was 'replaced'.

So, nothing about 'yellow' or 'red', just purely looking for justice.

[rubl]

Anyone seeing this as simply a "red/Yellow" thing is profoundly unaware of what has happened and is happening in Thailand today. You really are in for a shock when someone explains the situation to you.In the meantime be aware; it isn't a football match and you aren't in a position to make a relevant comment

Absolutely!

This is about justice. A PM starts a 'vote buying' Rice Price Pledging Scheme as 'self-financing' scheme which only needs a revolving funds of 500 billion Baht and she manages to lose 700 billion Baht. Furthermore as she liked to be on television we have lots of records of her stating how beautiful the RPPS was, how it reached it's goals. She stated in a censure debate in November 2013 that she and only she was incharge of her cabinet and government. Well so be it. She states to be in charge, take responsibility and transparency serious, have extra attention for corruption.

So, indicted and if the Supreme Court decides so she'll be charged at court while present to hear and acknowledge. Her legal team will get all documentation the OAG used to justify the charge. Mind you most if not all she'll have already. Cupboards full since begin of 2014.

[spidermike007]

Has a member of that family ever served time in jail? Has there ever been a conviction, besides the big man who was never man enough to return and face the charges. If they are serious, why not arrest her, and hold her without bail? If they are serious.

[jdinasia]

Has a member of that family ever served time in jail? Has there ever been a conviction, besides the big man who was never man enough to return and face the charges. If they are serious, why not arrest her, and hold her without bail? If they are serious.

The court hasn't agreed to hear the case yet.

As for being held without bail? That won't happen, although I hope they do take away her passport if this goes to trial.

Nothing done by anyone else, including her brother, has any bearing.

[aimbc]

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And the WITCH HUNT continues

And if I were her I would of ran a long time ago she has no chance of any fair trial or anything with a government that imposed itself at the point of a gun

Which they did for a very good reason, and it is all coming out now ...

The Army staged the coup not for a problem in the rice pledging scheme but because opposition political activists took to the streets and disrupted the city, to voice their discontent with the amnesty bill. If my memory serves me correctly, that was the real catalyst that took things to the streets. When Yingluck bent to their demands and dissolved the parliament and new elections were scheduled that was not good enough and they disrupted those elections as well. The police and Army failed to uphold the law and the Army and its political supporters saw this as a chance to take over and and are now in the process of cleansing the opposition political base. Whether Yingluck is guilty of negligence, malfeasance, or anything else should be determined only after a legitimate elected government is established and prosecutors and judicial system are free of the junta's influence. This is definitely nothing more than an attempt to silence and stop the red shirt influence in government. There has been no effort to reconcile differences and it is amazing how Abhisit seems free to contribute his opinions and the other side is silenced. This is all about who is to control the country not about rice schemes, corruption, or anything else. This is just the excuse that is being used. Whether you like it or not the yellow shirt side is about status quo and the red shirt side threatens that.

Everyone knows the rice scheme was a failure but on the other hand the current government is still creating subsidy programs for rice, rubber, and palm oil. Some one pays for the subsidies and that is usually the tax payer. The current government is using these subsidies the same way the Yingluck government did and that is to support their base. The current government is doing the same things trying to neutralize rural opposition to the junta.

You failed to mentioned that with out the junta coming along, the rice policy among other policy will continue to pillage the country for years to come. Up till recent months did the country see the rice deal for what it is. Some time it's hard medicine to swallow, better get used to it.

[rubl]

The rabid right-wing virulence on this thread has reached a new low. I always wondered how it worked in the 1930s. Now I know.

Strange, the Yingluck defenders are mostly associated with either 'left' or 'red'

[rubl]

As another poster pointed out: this is not a football match.

Bizarre foreigners here have fallen for one team or the other. It's supposed to be the Thais who are being fooled, not you lot who should know better. The foreign sycophants on either side show no critical thinking skills when it comes to their own side, they just go after the opposition penalty area in the hope of scoring for their chosen colour.

As Mr Rotten once said: Don't you feel you've been cheated?

Answer: yes, out of 700,000,000,000 Baht !

The fact that an Amply Rich woman caused this doesn't make it any better.

[Jai Dee]

A personal attack (flame) and subsequent replies have been removed from this topic.

[Keesters]

I also believe a lot of the rice was stolen. Those are the thieves I want to see punished.

Could it be that every time I eat Thai rice l'm receiving stolen goods. 555

[marinediscoking]

Robby NZ

"Indeed they do as do other countries, however these are planned subsidies called such and allowed for in budgets.

While the pledging scheme was touted a revolving out of budget scheme which would eventually run at a profit and therefor different from a subsidy.

It was said to specifically be to benefit poor farmers yet only 18% of poor farmers qualified for the scheme (World bank research) and they only got 5% of the money given to farmers.

More and more evidence is emerging of corruption within the scheme, lies have been uncovered and a huge amount of money shown to be missing.

Tell us. Should no investigations take place and no one be held responsible ?"

PLUS

Many farmers in Isaan are subsistence farmers and eat all the rice they grow, so were never going to get any money.

For those that rent land from absent landlords, their rents were increased, so they had to borrow more just to feed themselves.

Nothing was done to stop rice grown in Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar being smuggled across and sold in Thailand

No checks were put in place to make sure the same rice wasn't sold numerous times.

No proper audits or regular inspection took place, and any whistleblowers were transferred

No independent security eg government CCTV cameras or army guards for the warehouse each holding thousands of tons of rice

When the Democrats tried to say that the G2G deals were a sham in Parliament, they were told they were liars

Failure to ensure proper financing causing farmers to commit suicide

Ignoring multiple calls for the scrapping of the scheme,

Once started YS & PTP couldn't stop it or even reduce the price as they couldn't get elected without the rice farmers votes.

I would call all of this negligence and find YS guilty of that charge.

This was no rice farmers subsidy scheme, it was a scam along with the first car buyers scam and the school tablet scam to get PTP elected and then get amnesty for TS.

Her direct involvement in corruption is very doubtful, she was always to keep away and turn a blind eye and deny any corruption, while others made a financial killing.

Nothing was done to stop rice grown in Cambodia, Laos and Myanmar being smuggled across and sold in Thailand.

Every road I have been on in Thailand from a bordering country has numerous check points that are controlled by the army. Are you saying they just let the rice trucks roll by?

[ericnoodeeka]

i truly makes me smile the way people on this forum attack each other and call each other yellows or reds, or whatever.

the truth is, nothing has changed here and nothing ever will.

where i live nobody give a f...ck, its business as usual. all you keyboard saviours of thailand, and i think lots of you dont even live here, are wrong.

my wife still goes to work everyday, my daughter to school, my wife still gets her cut in her office, cant say which one, been told by mods before, and life

just goes on as normal.

all this is is a power struggle and its not dramatic. in the 7 year i have lived here, its always been same same.

so why on earth are some of you people fighting each other on a forum, and after all, whatever you think, it has nooooooo meaning.

as a farrang, just do as ur told and smile.

happy days, im still smiling.

[Keesters]

Don't quite get the current stage of the court deciding whether or not to hear the case.

The public prosecutor says there is a case. YS and her lawyers think there isn't. Shouldn't they both argue it out in court. Sorry for being skeptical but it seems the court is taking 30 days to decide the outcome and the trial, if it happens, will be a mere formality.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed.

[JAG]

And the WITCH HUNT continues

And if I were her I would of ran a long time ago she has no chance of any fair trial or anything with a government that imposed itself at the point of a gun

fair enough....that's your opinion. Most opinions from Shinawatra supporters are usually Flawed.

yea of course they are...........

And a minority on TVF, but they also still believe "She did nothing wrong" and it is all "politically motivated" Shins hallmark--remark

Just out of interest (and it has taken 18 hours to summon up enough), how do you know it is a minority?

[jdinasia]

Don't quite get the current stage of the court deciding whether or not to hear the case.

The public prosecutor says there is a case. YS and her lawyers think there isn't. Shouldn't they both argue it out in court. Sorry for being skeptical but it seems the court is taking 30 days to decide the outcome and the trial, if it happens, will be a mere formality.

Judges will decide if the burden of presentation of a prima facie case has been met by the prosecution.

In some cases in Thailand judges decide that it is the wrong court to be tried in.

[Keesters]

Don't quite get the current stage of the court deciding whether or not to hear the case.

The public prosecutor says there is a case. YS and her lawyers think there isn't. Shouldn't they both argue it out in court. Sorry for being skeptical but it seems the court is taking 30 days to decide the outcome and the trial, if it happens, will be a mere formality.

Judges will decide if the burden of presentation of a prima facie case has been met by the prosecution.

In some cases in Thailand judges decide that it is the wrong court to be tried in.

Is this procedure normal in the rest of the world?

[jdinasia]

Don't quite get the current stage of the court deciding whether or not to hear the case.

The public prosecutor says there is a case. YS and her lawyers think there isn't. Shouldn't they both argue it out in court. Sorry for being skeptical but it seems the court is taking 30 days to decide the outcome and the trial, if it happens, will be a mere formality.

Judges will decide if the burden of presentation of a prima facie case has been met by the prosecution.

In some cases in Thailand judges decide that it is the wrong court to be tried in.

Is this procedure normal in the rest of the world?

I cannot speak for the "rest of the world", it is different than countries which have a jury system. It's not as different as it looks though, as a pre-trial hearing would be held where the defense could ask for summary judgment if the prosecution didn't meet the standards. More common for that to happen after the prosecution rests and before the defense case begins in the US. The US adaptation of this procedure would be convening a grand jury.

[hawker9000]

Don't quite get the current stage of the court deciding whether or not to hear the case.

The public prosecutor says there is a case. YS and her lawyers think there isn't. Shouldn't they both argue it out in court. Sorry for being skeptical but it seems the court is taking 30 days to decide the outcome and the trial, if it happens, will be a mere formality.

Judges will decide if the burden of presentation of a prima facie case has been met by the prosecution.

In some cases in Thailand judges decide that it is the wrong court to be tried in.

Is this procedure normal in the rest of the world?

And why would that be relevant? Who exactly IS the "rest of the world", anyway? The UN? The ICJ? The ICC? The NYT? Al Jazeera? RT? CNN? Hillary? Barry O? Oprah? Where's your "Thainess"?

Edited February 20, 2015 by hawker9000

[Keesters]

Don't quite get the current stage of the court deciding whether or not to hear the case.

The public prosecutor says there is a case. YS and her lawyers think there isn't. Shouldn't they both argue it out in court. Sorry for being skeptical but it seems the court is taking 30 days to decide the outcome and the trial, if it happens, will be a mere formality.

Judges will decide if the burden of presentation of a prima facie case has been met by the prosecution.

In some cases in Thailand judges decide that it is the wrong court to be tried in.

Is this procedure normal in the rest of the world?

And why would that be relevant? Who exactly IS the "rest of the world", anyway? The UN? The ICJ? The ICC? The NYT? Al Jazeera? RT? CNN? Hillary? Barry O? Oprah? Where's your "Thainess"?

Didn't say it was relevant did I? Just asked a simple question which you seem to have totally misinterpreted. My "Thainess" is quite fine thank you except perhaps that I have:

1) a thirst for knowledge

2) that knowledge to include what goes on outside Thailand.

3) not to be judgemental, vindictive or rude.

[ddavidovsky]

The Shin vilification campaign has become as utterly tedious as it was always banal.

Drop the Shin obsession. It was the march of progress that produced them, not the other way round. They are the product, not the creators of change.

The country has developed in the past 20 years, the ordinary people are more connected and clued-up. Communism is no longer a threat. The old system that kept the country working during those difficult decades (all credit to the person who created that system) is now out of date and is being sloughed off.

This is just a messy transition phase. It will happen with or without the Shins.

[hawker9000]

Judges will decide if the burden of presentation of a prima facie case has been met by the prosecution.

In some cases in Thailand judges decide that it is the wrong court to be tried in.

Is this procedure normal in the rest of the world?

And why would that be relevant? Who exactly IS the "rest of the world", anyway? The UN? The ICJ? The ICC? The NYT? Al Jazeera? RT? CNN? Hillary? Barry O? Oprah? Where's your "Thainess"?

Didn't say it was relevant did I? Just asked a simple question which you seem to have totally misinterpreted. My "Thainess" is quite fine thank you except perhaps that I have:

1) a thirst for knowledge

2) that knowledge to include what goes on outside Thailand.

3) not to be judgemental, vindictive or rude.

Well I can't really argue about their being disqualifiers, but pretty big "exceptions" though...

[jayboy]

The Washington Post makes an attempt to put the question of criminal charges in context.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/thailands-ineffective-rule-by-force/2015/02/19/0c53b660-b863-11e4-a200-c008a01a6692_story.html

Of course assuming the paper is not in the pay of Thaksin (very probable) what is needed is for the government to "explain" to these misguided amateurs that foreigners (except a few middle aged retired tourists now cyber warriors) cannot possibly understand the complexities.Thailand is governed by its own rules and is exempt from the historical and social pressures that every other society is subject to.

The Guardian seems to be saying much the same thing.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/feb/19/guardian-view-military-rule-thailand

Edited February 20, 2015 by jayboy

[Keesters]

Judges will decide if the burden of presentation of a prima facie case has been met by the prosecution.

In some cases in Thailand judges decide that it is the wrong court to be tried in.

Is this procedure normal in the rest of the world?

And why would that be relevant? Who exactly IS the "rest of the world", anyway? The UN? The ICJ? The ICC? The NYT? Al Jazeera? RT? CNN? Hillary? Barry O? Oprah? Where's your "Thainess"?

Didn't say it was relevant did I? Just asked a simple question which you seem to have totally misinterpreted. My "Thainess" is quite fine thank you except perhaps that I have:

1) a thirst for knowledge

2) that knowledge to include what goes on outside Thailand.

3) not to be judgemental, vindictive or rude.

Well I can't really argue about their being disqualifiers, but pretty big "exceptions" though...

Big is my middle name. 555

[Squeegee]

They can't get Mr T (yet) so his pawn will have to pay instead.

I find it laughable the constant flow of prophecy from the yellow lovers on here that YL will scarper: all the evidence so far suggests she'll remain dignified in the face of all the elites throw at her. Let them make her a martyr, dumb schmucks that they are, and see where their 'reconciliation' is heading....

And no I'm not a red, you're all just two sides of the same dirty coin.

Right. Not-a-red talking about 'yellow lovers', 'elite' and distracting with a dignified innocent Amply Rich woman who's made a martyr simply because the OAG dares to indict her.

Ms. Yingluck positioned her RPPS as self-financing scheme only needing a revolving funds of 500 billion Baht. Defended it. Told parliament to be in charge. And now the OAG may not ask her what happened?

Doggy see bowl doggy eat = your mentality.

So by saying yellow lovers I am a red?

Yes YL has been a heck of a lot more dignified since the PDRC's antics last year right up to now, from my neutral point of view, than the tweeny hissy fits in front of the media by this other one.

And as far as I'm concerned the Shinawatras are elites too, same dirty coin as I told you already. However, I do want to see the poor properly represented and given a fair chance in life and only Taksin has recognised them (clearly for his own ends, of course, dirty Thai politician/businessman that he is).

I'm actually looking forward to the lid blowing off when a certain event occurs: it's disgusting the way Thai people have been kept in the dark for decades. Maybe it'll rip the country apart but it's about the only way anything's going to change. Reconciliation? How utterly childishly naive to think oppressing them is going to reconcile anything. Are you that lacking in insight not to see that? Ah but they didn't pull their guns yet and the threats and adjustments can safely be ignored or justified by sitting as you are on your dirty side of your dirty coin.

It's also disgusting that educated Westerners are showing support for Thai politicians. The whole lot of them should be exposed and their ill-gotten gains shared out amongst those who never had a chance for anything better than 'event days' instead of a decent basic education and the chance to be something more than a motorcycle taxi same as dad was.

But you don't care do you, because you're a yellow lover who wants to promote the status quo: that good Thai people are being fobbed off by dirty criminals who don't like being questioned about their family's assets, who don't even have to turn up to defend themselves in court because they are "too busy" destroying the economy and laying democracy to ransom - that is, of course, if their day in court ever arrives.

You fit right in: choose a winning team, join a chorus and ignore the scum on your own side of the dirty coin.

Oh boy. Struck a nerve, did I?

For a non-partisan, unbiased, objective observer you go on a lot about 'yellow lovers' and you assume a lot about posters as well.

Anyway, this highly dignified Amply Rich lady is charged. Not because of politics, but because she started a self-financing scheme while PM, defended it, stated she was in charge and only she, and managed to lose 700 billion Baht on that self-financing scheme. "negligent' and with all statements she made on 'no problems', 'no real problems', 'listened to warnings', 'taken warnings into account', 'financing arranged', 'can we borrow some more?', it would seem 'criminally negligent' is really kind. Personally I would call it 'intent to deceive and defraud'.

Her hand-picked Minister of Finance (the 'little white lies' guy) stated the day before the RPPS officially started it would cost around 440 billion Baht only with money returning from rice sales. Mid-2013 Ms. Yingluck acknowledged a loss of 230 or 320 billion Baht (forgot which, sorry). That time her Minister of Commerce was 'replaced'.

So, nothing about 'yellow' or 'red', just purely looking for justice.

"Struck a nerve, did I?"

You flatter yourself: one usage of 'yellow lovers' in my second reply to you was asking you to clarify that you think simplisticly: "So by saying yellow lovers I am a red?" and not related to your implication, which is ironic since your proven behaviour observed in my posts that it is you, sir, who is over-egging the pudding with accusations of a shirt colour. Furthermore, I suggest you now go back and count how many times I've actually used the expression and try to show in what way you could possibly have hit a nerve with someone for whom you don't even seem to be understanding, as also observed about you with my doggy see bowl image.

As to the specifics of your partisanism, it doesn't interest me at all. See, this is just further proof you are incapable of thinking beyond food once you think you've seen a doggy bowl; or to put it another way just to help you out here, the analogy of a football match: you are trying to accuse me of playing for the opposite side and attempting to entice me to respond politically, whereas my true point is as an observer on both teams saying one is dealing with all the mutual fouls far better than the other.

You can tediously come back again and again until such time as your ego thinks it's hit a mark, but since there was never any doggy bowl for you to feed from in the first place, it's just not going to happen that I'll join your dirty game of fouling football.

Or the coin analogy: in short, go find someone on the other side of your coin, because as far as I'm concerned I wouldn't touch that dirty money on either side. If you are not an apologist in support of one of these two factions where is the evidence for your critical thinking when it comes to your own side?

Finally, more fool you for being suckered by the Thais, when in this case - as it has been for decades before Taksin - the suckering was meant for their own people not us.