Choctastic Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 The Talmud is Satanic? Wow. The blatant antisemitism here goes on and on. BTW, if you're a satanist, fine, enjoy yourself, but the Talmud is not satanic. It's Jewish. Only an antisemite would push that kind of hate promoting garbage that Judaism and Satanism are the same thing. For those interested in learning about the roots of the Talmud and other Jewish peculiarities, I suggest this excellent t.v. program: The Story of the Jews. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_the_Jews_(TV_series) The topic is about sucking the blood from the mutilated penises of infants. Does 'The Story of the Jews' cover this? Criticism of the few sick Rabbis who do this and state the Talmud as their justification, is legitimate. Of course it isn't ALL the Talmud. Just as ALL the Quran isn't devoted to Islamist violence. The language I use isn't academic but so what? I've seen 'outrageous' comedians use far worse. 'anti-semitic'? This is your obsession. Any other culture that indulged in this practice would be regarded as deviant and if it was Muslim Imams or Catholic Priests, I would treat them in exactly the same manner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) The Talmud is Satanic? Wow. The blatant antisemitism here goes on and on. BTW, if you're a satanist, fine, enjoy yourself, but the Talmud is not satanic. It's Jewish. Only an antisemite would push that kind of hate promoting garbage that Judaism and Satanism are the same thing. For those interested in learning about the roots of the Talmud and other Jewish peculiarities, I suggest this excellent t.v. program: The Story of the Jews. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Story_of_the_Jews_(TV_series) The topic is about sucking the blood from the mutilated penises of infants. Does 'The Story of the Jews' cover this? Criticism of the few sick Rabbis who do this and state the Talmud as their justification, is legitimate. Of course it isn't ALL the Talmud. Just as ALL the Quran isn't devoted to Islamist violence. The language I use isn't academic but so what? I've seen 'outrageous' comedians use far worse. 'anti-semitic'? This is your obsession. Any other culture that indulged in this practice would be regarded as deviant and if it was Muslim Imams or Catholic Priests, I would treat them in exactly the same manner. Lovely. Edited February 22, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Some off-topic posts and replies have been removed. This topic is not about Judaism in general, it is about a specific ritual. Please stay on topic and comparisons need to keep that in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Herpeticaly-Rabid Rabbi terrorizes NYC.....Horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiman Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) The ignorance and antisemitism on display here is disheartening to see, and makes me ashamed to know that I share this forum with such misinformed individuals. Associating Judaism with satan might be the most ignorant statement I have seen within this forum and reminds me of the propaganda that the Nazi’s pushed into the minds of the uneducated and lower classes, who bought in and gave power to the Nazi party. Like all religions there are various sects, ranging from extreme to barely practicing. With even the most basic education one should understand that it’s ignorant and racist to lump everyone together, or blame the group as a whole for the actions of some. I’m not going to make a list of life changing contributions that Jews have made, because there are also lists of contributions by Muslims, Christians, Bhuddist, etc. It is also a waste of time to try to open your mind to how wrong you are in your beliefs. I can only hope that in the future, there are less people like you. So if you prescribe to the racism in this thread, make sure you make good use of a Jewish invention, The Pill. On the topic, it’s an extreme practice done by less than 1% of Jews and the people doing it should know better. It’s very sad to see ancient traditions become twisted into something wrong. On the subject of circumcision, there are 1000s of medical studies and it is clear that the benefits outweigh the risks based on medical research, which I am going to subscribe to over your baseless opinions. In regards to the ignorant comments about who performs the circumcision on the 8th day, its the Mohel who is usually a doctor or has had medical training and performs 100s of circumcisions a week and they use medical tools to do the process. I am not going to push my agenda, you can read the benefits from the Mayo clinic here: http://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/circumcision/basics/why-its-done/PRC-20013585 & Risks here: http://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/circumcision/basics/risks/prc-20013585 And you can read about the Bris here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_milah#Mohel Edited February 22, 2015 by chiman 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Sadly antisemitism is on the rise again although it never went away and any negative story having any connection to Jews is used by Jew haters to try to spread their disease. Which btw is much more dangerous than herpes. Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seastallion Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 THIS IS NOT OFF TOPIC. Is anyone here a star trek fan? The thing that I find endearing about it is the way that all colours of skin and religions and philosophies and race and even species can all get along together in a little tin can floating through space. That is, I believe, because of priorities. I hope we are able to reach this level of human, and even alien, behaviour before much longer. They have removed pettiness. Why can't we? Kudos to your sentiment, but it is off-topic because the topic is not about petty bigotries, despite one member's petty off-topic attempt to malign a different religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooPoopedToPop Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Herpes transmission by rabbis as a result of a religious ritual... speaks volumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seastallion Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Mouthwash does not kill HIV. " Laboratory studies have found that saliva may contain HIV, and transmission via saliva is therefore biologically plausible.". Not all mouthwashes kill herpes. Another couple of risks for the rabbis and congregation to "be made aware of"? There has never been a case where HIV was passed on via saliva. There has never been a documented case, maybe, but not many people with HIV suck wounds, do they? If the herpes virus can be transmitted to the wound, why can't the HIV virus? Edited February 22, 2015 by Seastallion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Herpes transmission by rabbis as a result of a religious ritual... speaks volumes.Perhaps it does to those who fail to consider the larger context of this news item.Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 THIS IS NOT OFF TOPIC. Is anyone here a star trek fan? The thing that I find endearing about it is the way that all colours of skin and religions and philosophies and race and even species can all get along together in a little tin can floating through space. That is, I believe, because of priorities. I hope we are able to reach this level of human, and even alien, behaviour before much longer. They have removed pettiness. Why can't we? Kudos to your sentiment, but it is off-topic because the topic is not about petty bigotries, despite one member's petty off-topic attempt to malign a different religion. Well, William Shatner (Cpt. Kirk) and George Takei (Lt. Sulu) didn't seem to get along and they still don't. But your sentiments are appreciated. Now we need to get back on topic and stop the anti-Semitic references, please. This thread is very specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choctastic Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 'In September 2012, the New York Department of Health unanimously ruled that the practice of metztizah b'peh should require informed consent from the parent or guardian of the child undergoing the ritual.[64] Prior to the ruling, several hundred rabbis, including Rabbi David Neiderman, the executive director of the United Jewish Organization of Williamsburg, signed a declaration stating that they would not inform parents of the potential dangers that came with metzitzah b'peh, even if informed consent became law.' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brit_milah#The_anti-circumcision_movement_and_brit_shalom Wonderful. They ignore the law and authorities aren't enforcing it. With Orthodox Jews apparently making up 40% of New York's 1.1 million Jewish community, what chance does any new initiative have? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TooPoopedToPop Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Herpes transmission by rabbis as a result of a religious ritual... speaks volumes.Perhaps it does to those who fail to consider the larger context of this news item.Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Exactly what is the "...larger context..." of this news item. Explain please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chang_paarp Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Mouthwash does not kill HIV. " Laboratory studies have found that saliva may contain HIV, and transmission via saliva is therefore biologically plausible.". Not all mouthwashes kill herpes. Another couple of risks for the rabbis and congregation to "be made aware of"? There has never been a case where HIV was passed on via saliva. There has never been a documented case, maybe, but not many people with HIV suck wounds, do they? If the herpes virus can be transmitted to the wound, why can't the HIV virus? If you a little reseach you will find that herpes can be transmitted by fluid contact (water and other liquids) whereas HIV requires a blood contact for transmission (HIV is a relatively weak virus and requires ideal conditions for transmission and is relatively difficult to transmit). In the conditions described in the OP herpes could be transmitted but HIV would not be transmitted. Interestingly there some research showing that circumcision can help in the reduction of transmission of diseases such as HIV, it was on a BBC doco I saw on the science of sex in the last couple of days. Will try to post a link if I can find it. EDIT Found a link to the doco: The Science Behind Sex, BBC 2013 http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/395963459982/The-Science-Behind-Sex Linked program will work till March 6 2015 Edited February 22, 2015 by Chang_paarp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Herpes transmission by rabbis as a result of a religious ritual... speaks volumes.Perhaps it does to those who fail to consider the larger context of this news item.Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Exactly what is the "...larger context..." of this news item.Explain please. That the practice is rather rare among Jews. That the practice has nothing to do with sex. That a large percentage of all populations have the mouth herpes virus potentially.Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Edited February 22, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Yes HIV risk is lower for cut straight males. Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lissos Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Yes HIV risk is lower for cut straight males. Yet, according to the article you posted the other day Jing, that is disputed. "In December of 2014, the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention released a draft endorsing infant male circumcision. This mirrors a 2012 statement by the American Academy of Pediatrics which links circumcision with the decreased transmission of HIV, STDs that can cause cancer, and urinary tract infections. However, both statements were called out by the international medical community by and large as lacking on a scientific and ethical basis. When it comes to medical recommendations about circumcision, there is an undeniable cultural bias that is persistently reflected in the scientific literature. Most medical societies in developed nations—except for the American ones—agree that in environments where hygienic conditions allow men to wash themselves regularly, any health benefits circumcision might offer cease to outweigh the risks. “The other claimed health benefits, including protection against HIV/AIDS, genital herpes, genital warts, and penile cancer, are questionable, weak, and likely to have little public health relevance in a Western context,” states the critique of the AAP’s stance on circumcision led by Danish epidemiologist Morten Frisch" ~ http://motherboard.vice.com/read/regrowing-foreskins-like-salamander-arms Understandably some may say that the charge of 'cultural bias' may also be present within Europe too, not only in the United States. Circumcision here in Europe is not common, and in the U.S it is the norm. If scientists are already culturally 'tainted' by a pro or against stance in their research on this, is the big question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) The WHO recommendation for circumcision for HIV prevention has been in Africa only very high rates of hetero transmission there. The WHO is pretty solid I would think. I never suggested that was a global recommendation. Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app Edited February 22, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petercool Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 an off topic post removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lissos Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 The WHO recommendation for circumcision for HIV prevention has been in Africa only very high rates of hetero transmission there. Along with poor facilities for sanitation and health education, which may be a factor for Africa based findings and subsequent claims. I never suggested that was a global recommendation. Maybe so, but - "Yes HIV risk is lower for cut straight males" was quite a blanket claim in itself, I would suggest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seastallion Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Mouthwash does not kill HIV. " Laboratory studies have found that saliva may contain HIV, and transmission via saliva is therefore biologically plausible.". Not all mouthwashes kill herpes. Another couple of risks for the rabbis and congregation to "be made aware of"? There has never been a case where HIV was passed on via saliva. There has never been a documented case, maybe, but not many people with HIV suck wounds, do they? If the herpes virus can be transmitted to the wound, why can't the HIV virus? If you a little reseach you will find that herpes can be transmitted by fluid contact (water and other liquids) whereas HIV requires a blood contact for transmission (HIV is a relatively weak virus and requires ideal conditions for transmission and is relatively difficult to transmit). In the conditions described in the OP herpes could be transmitted but HIV would not be transmitted. Interestingly there some research showing that circumcision can help in the reduction of transmission of diseases such as HIV, it was on a BBC doco I saw on the science of sex in the last couple of days. Will try to post a link if I can find it. EDIT Found a link to the doco: The Science Behind Sex, BBC 2013 http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/395963459982/The-Science-Behind-Sex Linked program will work till March 6 2015 If you did a little readin, you'd see I based my comments on " Laboratory studies have found that saliva may contain HIV, and transmission via saliva is therefore biologically plausible.". All the more plausible I'd say when sucking on an open wound. Edited February 22, 2015 by Seastallion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulic Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 I shake my head, never heard of suction circumcision. Learn something every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) I wouldn't be the one to defend this particular ancient ritual in a modern context. Some ancient practices make sense today and some don't. I think the small minority of Jews that practice the mouth thing should strongly consider dropping it. It might make it easier to accept dropping it if secular states make them drop it ... whatever works. Keep in mind the minority of Jews that do this are of the more fundamentalist flavor so rationality in terms of modern science may not be their strong suit, like any other kinds of fundamentalists. It is obviously not a sexual thing at all, and people saying sick in the context of implying it is sexual, now, THAT is sick. Personally I have no problem with secular states having the power to draw reasonable lines about religious freedom. That leaves questions, what is reasonable and what isn't reasonable. Like in the U.S. Haitian voodoo animal sacrifice is generally illegal even though it is arguably a religious practice. Native Americans doing otherwise illegal hallucinogenics IS legal ... also a religious practice. Why is it done? Why aren't Jews supposed to eat shellfish (and lots do anyway)? One could guess that rule happened because some people died eating bad clams ... There are a lot of theories out there on the origin on all kinds of religious rules and rituals. The faithful will not be so interested in practical explanations though. I don't think that really matters in this context. One could guess I suppose, to stop the blood back when they didn't have medical supplies? Is that really relevant today? Edited February 22, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) The topic of oral herpes and genital herpes is relevant to this topic. I am not an expert on this but I had the impression that a huge percentage of the human population has the virus for oral herpes and much less for genital herpes. A rabbi having oral herpes does not indicate the man is sexually promiscuous in any way. Rabbis BTW are not priests ... they usually marry. I'm a little fuzzy on transmission between oral herpes and genital herpes ... there are the different virus variants as well. Perhaps someone with medical knowledge can comment more. http://goaskalice.columbia.edu/cold-sores-oral-sex-genital-herpes Herpes is a common condition that affects up to 80% of the United States population. Approximately one-fourth of New York City inhabitants have genital herpes. However, the herpes virus has mostly cosmetic ramifications. If you’re concerned about preventing transmission, it’s important to understand the differences between herpes simplex 1 (HSV-1, also referred to as oral herpes), and herpes simplex 2 (HSV-2, also called genital herpes). The bottom line is that both HSV-1 and HSV-2 can be transmitted through oral sex, but transmission is uncommon, and there are many easy, cheap, and even tasty ways to prevent this from happening. So it sounds like the majority of people reading this thread also have oral herpes. Have you ever had a cold sore? Edited February 22, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
losworld Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Very twisted people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lissos Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 Why aren't Jews supposed to eat shellfish (and lots do anyway)? One could guess that rule happened because some people died eating bad clams ... Of the very little I know about Judaism, some of the prohibitions regarding foodstuffs can be valid in some scenarios today / certain parts of the world. For example, I believe that the prohibition on eating 'filtering' organisms was an age old (non scientific) realworld observation that the nature of certain filtering organisms like oysters, clams, mussels, scallops, and cockless can mean that it is very easy for humans to ingest some seriously bad contamination or even fatal poisoning from such organisms harvested in certain areas or at certain times of year. It is a risk that remains to this day and the modern factors of chemical residue in the oceans is a newer ingredient in this, leading to tight regulation. Example Link In terms of Pork, both Judaism and Islam view pigs as filthy animals to this day due to the risk of parasitic organisms being passed onto humans, due to the 'garbage consuming' nature of Pigs (sans developed world regulation). For much of the developed world this is not the issue it once was, unlike with the filtering organisms, due to controls. In places like India though, consuming domestic Pork would be playing with fire, as everybody who has been there and spent any time in rural areas knows they essentially act as wandering human excrement consumers. In cases like that, Jews or Muslims continuing to prohibit themselves from Pork products in the modern western world wouldn't make sense, as it would be rigid tradition alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 (edited) Are these Rabbis medically qualified and government approved to perform surgery on infants? If not, why aren't they in jail? The Talmud is a satanic piece of work, that's for sure. Why on earth do they need to suck the blood from the penis? Can't they find a chuffing Kleenex? The supposed link to Jewish identity is solved easily. Buy the kid a hat. . Your first sentence is interesting and worthy of further investigation. The rest of your post is garbage. Doing mohel work is legal in the United States. Yes it is minor surgery and I would agree the state should mandate medical standards. http://www.myjewishlearning.com/life/Life_Events/Newborn_Ceremonies/Liturgy_Ritual_and_Customs/For_Boys/The_Mohel.shtml Lucy Eisenstein Waldman Thank you for the article. I did want to add that the practice of oral suction or metsitsa b'peh is rejected by Reform Judaism.Lucy Waldman, Certified Mohel, Certified Nurse Midwife. There are different sects of Jewish religious practice from very liberal to ultra-orthodox. Explanation of origin of oral suction method. Basically, they didn't know any better. Now we do so there is a reason to question this practice, that's for sure. Again be clear the oral method is not a common practice today. In ancient tradition, the mohel would actually suck the blood away; this was believed to have a disinfectant effect. By the 19th century, with the advent of the germ theory of illness, Jews realized that it actually had the opposite effect. Today, a mohel will probably utilize a glass tube and a cotton swab. The mohel will put a sterile bandage on the incision and then the boy is dressed. Edited February 22, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
car720 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 THIS IS NOT OFF TOPIC. Is anyone here a star trek fan? The thing that I find endearing about it is the way that all colours of skin and religions and philosophies and race and even species can all get along together in a little tin can floating through space. That is, I believe, because of priorities. I hope we are able to reach this level of human, and even alien, behaviour before much longer. They have removed pettiness. Why can't we? And just how do you know they do all "get along" in their little can(?) after the filming stops ? 99% chance that they don't. It was the ethos of the writing in relation to how we behave that I was referring to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jai Dee Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 One off-topic post and subsequent reply to that post have been removed from this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Circumcision is done to almost all Jewish baby boys. It is basically required. A small minority of modern Jews are rejecting this but there is very little chance their attitude will catch on. It is just too central to Jewish identity. Oral suction to only a small minority of all the Jewish baby boys. It's not rocket science, folks. Again, in modern times, oral suction is NOT the usual practice. But some do. Being a mohel is a special skill. Being a rabbi doesn't necessary mean you will be doing mohel work. All this concern for Jewish baby boys. It warms the heart, doesn't it? Edited February 23, 2015 by Jingthing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.3b3332cc2256ad0edbc2fe9404feeef0.png)
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now