webfact Posted February 22, 2015 Share Posted February 22, 2015 ANALYSISPardons seen as best option for countryOpas BoonlomThe NationMany Thais regard an amnesty as a way to 'whitewash' wrongdoersBANGKOK: -- A pardon or an amnesty? After debating which of the two is a better solution to bring about reconciliation after the country has struggled through a decade of a political conflict that saw riots and crises, charter drafters have decided to opt for a pardon.The reason for this is amnesty is seen as tantamount to "whitewashing" people's crimes. It would mean that acts committed by wrongdoers would be erased and history effectively rewritten.A pardon, however, means a person did something wrong, and that will never change, but they are forgiven and partly or wholly exempted from punishment handed down by a court.If the Yingluck government had pushed for the pardon option, it may not have been brought down. The fact that the previous government pushed for an amnesty bill as it sought to "delete" the wrongdoing committed by politicians resulted in a dramatic backlash. It underestimated public sentiment against a blanket amnesty and triggered a mass protest that led to its downfall.People opposed the whitewashing of politicians because the individuals in question would be able to re-enter politics. Their political and election rights would be given back to them as if they had done nothing wrong, despite them having taken an oath to work for the public with integrity and morality.It is thought this is the reason why the charter writers decided to take a different approach. To reduce public opposition, they resolved that no one would get "whitewashed" through an amnesty but pardons would be offered to wrongdoers involved in political conflicts over recent years on the condition they admit guilt and accept some punishment.There are other stark differences between pardon and amnesty. The decision to pardon anyone rests with the King. Pardon requests proceed when a petition is filed to the King.A pardon can be done on a case by case basis, individually or as a group and normally takes place during auspicious royal occasions. Pardons are granted following a court's final judgement and a wrongdoer has received some punishment.Amnesty, however, must be initiated by a legislative branch, and Parliament must pass an act with retroactive effect that would help wrongdoers, as their offences would be erased. In an urgent situation, an amnesty could be issued as a Royal decree that must be approved by Parliament. And it could be granted without a court trial having ended.Under the reconciliation plan, the process to select people who will be pardoned starts by setting up a body called the Independent Committee to Promote National Reconciliation. The committee will comprise no more than 15 qualified figures who are politically neutral or leaders of rival factions.The selection process for the panel has not been written in the charter.Recruiting these 15 people will not be easy because few people may want a post seen as a political "hot potato''.The independent panel will be tasked with finding the root causes of political conflicts, identifying damage incurred and proposing solutions to the Cabinet or Parliament.It will have to coordinate with the leaders of conflicting parties to iron out their differences and implement rehabilitation measures or organise compensation for those affected.Creating a mechanism to bring about national reconciliation has never been done in a Thai constitution. The charter writers are committed to incorporating this entity and mechanism in the next charter, but achieving true reconciliation is not just about the law and the sincerity or sacrifice of people in power - political rivals and the people will also play a crucial role.Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/Pardons-seen-as-best-option-for-country-30254645.html-- The Nation 2015-02-23 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post selftaopath Posted February 22, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2015 If there is no punishment there is no crime. I think this country could benefit greatly if individuals were taught (by any means) accountability, and the lessons of cause and effect. Someone might be morally corrupt, but not partake in devious behavior for the sheer fact they do not want to suffer the consequences of said behavior if/when they are caught. I don't think it's that complicated. Why does Thailand so often seek to excuse crimes and corruption? 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post thesetat2013 Posted February 22, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 22, 2015 A pardon the will still show the wrongdoers that there was Jo punishment for their actions. The billions lost from the rice scheme that someone must have profited from will be lost and the people that got this money will live their lives in riches free from justice. They will never know what it is like inside a prison or to be punished. Pardoning these people is not the answer and this reconciliation should not even be looking at these options. People want justice. Families of the dead from this scheme want justice. To allow them to escape justice by pardoning them is a slap on the face to everyone injured by their actions. These people need to held accountable and face a real justice system with prison and finances withheld. Anything less will show the next politician that they too can rob the people and the country and escape punishment. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post hanuman2543 Posted February 23, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2015 The twists and turns they are making to avoid punishing wrongdoers and making them taking responsibility for what they have done is unbelievable. If it wouldn't be so sad it would be something to laugh about. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Bluespunk Posted February 23, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) "Pardons seen as best option for country" By criminal scum hoping to avoid gaol for corruption and other misdeeds. Edited February 23, 2015 by Bluespunk 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post 15Peter20 Posted February 23, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Punishing wrongdoers is only effective if applied even-handedly ie punish wrongdoers from all sides. Punishing those just from one side under the guise of some kind of universal moral imperative is disengenious and does nothing for the development of the country. If the law isn't applied equally, we might as well apply a blanket amnesty. If amnesty is the only way to show equal treatment of rival players then maybe there's something to be said for it in the short term at least. Edited February 23, 2015 by 15Peter20 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ezzra Posted February 23, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2015 This 'option' isn't working, for generation, wrong dooers have been pardoned, given amnesty, and forgive and forget, but the cheaters, liars thieves and other crooks are still at it, and In force, why? because they know that down the line, some time in the near future they all be washed clean, they will be pardoned, forgiven etc., etc..... Put them in jail, strip them of rank and all wealth, and you have solved most of the problems, most... not all,,,,, 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExPratt Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Some kind of Suspended Pardon type thing , if you go back to your old ways then the old conviction carries the full weight 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sweatalot Posted February 23, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2015 Reconciliation with criminals? I don't understand all this talk of reconciliation. Criminals are criminals and have to be treated as those - to protect the good people Reconciliation would only help the criminals not the country and not their victims 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maoro2013 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yes and the only ones to be pardoned will be the rich and powerful. Totally wrong. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post eeworldwide Posted February 23, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2015 Dishing out pardons for those clearly in the wrong and who should be experiencing the just consequences for their actions, only smacks of there being something to hide. Maybe the fuse that has been lit, is nearing someone holding a keg, who would rather not be, and has stomped it out before it reaches and blows up in their face. On the other hand, of course, this is symptomatic of Thai culture. With no clear moral compass guiding the nation in terms of collective religion or established moral fundamentals, i can safely predict that Thailand will continue to go round and round in these same circles until judgement day. Let's not kid ourselves - we are a million miles way from democracy, we might as well abandon that ship now and just reconcile ourselves with the fact that some things will never change. I for one am bored to death with this whole circus - it'a laughable, pathetic and quite frankly embarrassing. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maidee Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 so you get 50% discount when you confess plus you can look forward for a pardon mhhh, now that will scare the people into no wrongdoing to others plus the 200 baht fine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lucky11 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Yes and the only ones to be pardoned will be the rich and powerful. Totally wrong. It won't help Thaksin which is the thing that I really like about this version (as against an amnesty) which would have enabled him to return to Thailand . That his failed attempt to obtain the latter brought little sis's government down makes it even better!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clokwise Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Read between the lines - isn't there a specific person in Thailand, unnamed in this article, who issues pardons? It is interesting that this idea is being floated now. I suspect the public may be being prepped for this eventuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winstonc Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Read between the lines - isn't there a specific person in Thailand, unnamed in this article, who issues pardons? It is interesting that this idea is being floated now. I suspect the public may be being prepped for this eventuality. correct they are testing the waters.i think sir.....sow the seed and then make it happen...people forget very quickly ..shame ....they have none... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullstop Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Why does Thailand so often seek to excuse crimes and corruption? Face saving cowardice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ratcatcher Posted February 23, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2015 Some kind of Suspended Pardon type thing , if you go back to your old ways then the old conviction carries the full weight Would this include the poor people presently serving jail time for major crimes like picking mushrooms in a National Forest or clearing a few rai in order to grow some corn? One law for the rich and another for ............oh never mind. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/691216-bail-hopes-rise-for-kalasin-woman-jailed-for-15-years-for-picking-mushrooms/ 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisY1 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 If there is no punishment there is no crime. I think this country could benefit greatly if individuals were taught (by any means) accountability, and the lessons of cause and effect. Someone might be morally corrupt, but not partake in devious behavior for the sheer fact they do not want to suffer the consequences of said behavior if/when they are caught. I don't think it's that complicated. Why does Thailand so often seek to excuse crimes and corruption? IMO, patronage is partly to blame for connected wrongdoers more often than not, being punished....there's always someone that has aome kind of debt , either due or owing.....and obviously, these people should not, or cannot, be touched.... Similarly, why aren't the big people behind drugs, illegal casinos, sex slavery and trafficking rarely, if ever, bought to justice? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 I have some ideas of who will be pardoned and who will not... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plowman Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 So much to say but................112. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcisco Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 errr Pardon me? There are some rather serious outcomes of the actions taken by individuals and groups under direction of those in power and wanting power that constitute gross crimes against the state, individuals and even the very lives of Thais and foreigners. Are these crimes for which punishment in most cases has never even been adjudicated upon, years after the fact, that are in need of pardon the culprits. Far from in fact, to do so would indicate a very faulty moral compass and everyone here (thailand) knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 errr Pardon me? There are some rather serious outcomes of the actions taken by individuals and groups under direction of those in power and wanting power that constitute gross crimes against the state, individuals and even the very lives of Thais and foreigners. Are these crimes for which punishment in most cases has never even been adjudicated upon, years after the fact, that are in need of pardon the culprits. Far from in fact, to do so would indicate a very faulty moral compass and everyone here (thailand) knows it. errr Pardon me? Why,have you done something wrong? Are you sure you'd not rather have a nice compurgation, a touch of vindication or how about a good dose of exoneration? We could also consider some clemency, or how about absolution or as a last resort, exculpation?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orange31 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Some kind of Suspended Pardon type thing , if you go back to your old ways then the old conviction carries the full weight I see, say like you killed someone but don't worry you can go free as long as you don't do it again. Or you stole billions but that's ok as long as you don't do it again. In my mind, anyone who even entertains the thought of amnesty or parden either has something directly to gain from it, or is just plain stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ourmanflint Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) Conditional pardons wold be fine if those looking to be pardoned actually admitted their crimes and stood up in court to testify about their actions and then ask for the courts forgiveness. Those who committed minor infractions could then be pardoned, but those who committed serious offences should be berated publicly before being given conditional pardons, including being banned from holding any political office for a minimum of 5 years. Edited February 23, 2015 by ourmanflint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricardo Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 Some kind of Suspended Pardon type thing , if you go back to your old ways then the old conviction carries the full weight Or perhaps re-double the original sentence, to give more incentive not to revert to previous ways ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post IMA_FARANG Posted February 23, 2015 Popular Post Share Posted February 23, 2015 A pardon requires the admission of guilt before it can be made. Those who will not admit that they did anything improper, whether they intended to commit a crime or not, by definition can not be 'pardoned", as they never admitted their error. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDiva Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 errr Pardon me? There are some rather serious outcomes of the actions taken by individuals and groups under direction of those in power and wanting power that constitute gross crimes against the state, individuals and even the very lives of Thais and foreigners. Are these crimes for which punishment in most cases has never even been adjudicated upon, years after the fact, that are in need of pardon the culprits. Far from in fact, to do so would indicate a very faulty moral compass and everyone here (thailand) knows it. errr Pardon me? Why,have you done something wrong? Are you sure you'd not rather have a nice compurgation, a touch of vindication or how about a good dose of exoneration? We could also consider some clemency, or how about absolution or as a last resort, exculpation?. How about a Section 48, oh, sorry, that one's been taken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lvr181 Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 "Pardon" sounds like a religion. What you did wrong will be forgiven if you repent? Give me a break, if you do the crime then do the time! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ratcatcher Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 errr Pardon me? There are some rather serious outcomes of the actions taken by individuals and groups under direction of those in power and wanting power that constitute gross crimes against the state, individuals and even the very lives of Thais and foreigners. Are these crimes for which punishment in most cases has never even been adjudicated upon, years after the fact, that are in need of pardon the culprits. Far from in fact, to do so would indicate a very faulty moral compass and everyone here (thailand) knows it. errr Pardon me? Why,have you done something wrong? Are you sure you'd not rather have a nice compurgation, a touch of vindication or how about a good dose of exoneration? We could also consider some clemency, or how about absolution or as a last resort, exculpation?. How about a Section 48, oh, sorry, that one's been taken Would this be the Section 48 to which you are referring? There are many sections numbered 48 in various Acts. http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/wa1958111/s48.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluespunk Posted February 23, 2015 Share Posted February 23, 2015 (edited) errr Pardon me? There are some rather serious outcomes of the actions taken by individuals and groups under direction of those in power and wanting power that constitute gross crimes against the state, individuals and even the very lives of Thais and foreigners. Are these crimes for which punishment in most cases has never even been adjudicated upon, years after the fact, that are in need of pardon the culprits. Far from in fact, to do so would indicate a very faulty moral compass and everyone here (thailand) knows it. errr Pardon me? Why,have you done something wrong? Are you sure you'd not rather have a nice compurgation, a touch of vindication or how about a good dose of exoneration? We could also consider some clemency, or how about absolution or as a last resort, exculpation?. How about a Section 48, oh, sorry, that one's been taken Would this be the Section 48 to which you are referring? There are many sections numbered 48 in various Acts. http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/wa1958111/s48.html Love this bit..... "For the purposes of subsection (1)(— (a) insignificant risks include, but are not limited to, risks that are far-fetched or fanciful; and b: risks that are not insignificant are all risks other than insignificant risks and include, but are not limited to, significant risks." Edited February 23, 2015 by Bluespunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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