Jakarta court dismisses death row Australians' legal challenge

[Don Aleman]

Say goodby and good riddance to Indonesia if they execute these people. Australia doesn't need to do anything bad to them, just stop touring/buying/aiding - all voluntary gestures that Indonesia sorely needs.

[Baerboxer]

It's real simple. You know converting from Islam is illegal. If you convert from Islam, you know you're breaking the law. As a result, you have zero rights when you get caught.

No sympathy from me.

Point is that the statement is only going to work in so far as the law is just.

Also, knowing in advance that the breaking of an unjust law brings with it the death penalty, doesn't entail that the person so breaking it deserves to die. Stupid perhaps, but deserving to die I don't think so. There would be no population pressure anywhere in the world if stupidity had that consequence.

Drunk drivers cause far more deaths, but there's no clamor to have those law breakers put to death. Perhaps we should?

They are drug dealers who got caught, tried and convicted

Before they were caught how many lives did the drugs they smuggled / sold ruin?

No sympathy from me either

If a countries law stated the death penalty for a drunk driver who causes death I would not argue

nor would I be sympathetic, as I feel drunk driving is one of the stupidest things a person can do

So consequently you have no sympathy for criminals in Islamic countries who get their arms amputated for stealing?

It's a hand not a arm and only after being convicted of repeat offences.

How many instances of amputation do you believe happen per year?

In many African countries thieves get lynched if caught stealing.

[DLock]

The only question is "Can the Bali Nine read?". If the answer is "Yes", then what is there to discuss?

How much clearer do you want the Indonesians to make this?

[hawker9000]

Say goodby and good riddance to Indonesia if they execute these people. Australia doesn't need to do anything bad to them, just stop touring/buying/aiding - all voluntary gestures that Indonesia sorely needs.

You can "say" it, sing it, hum it or dream it all you want, but I doubt any of that will happen, executions or no. Australia, like the other countries, will "voice its disappointment & disapproval", and that'll be it. And I seriously doubt any statistically significant number of Australian individuals, other than those who might be involved in the drug trade, will change their travel plans because of it.

[boomerangutang]

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The whole thrust of this 'International Reaction' to this particular death penalty is misdirected.

Australia should know its place.

The attempted Legal action was STUPID. And it is really a shame.

As to the lives of the smugglers - it is of value only to them.

Not to me.

Not to the posters here.

Not to Australia.

Callous quote of the day

[Bignose]

While I have little sympathy for these two males I do feel for their families, from what I have seen of them on TV they are respectable and decent people who deserve better.

It would appear to me that along with the countless numbers who suffer from the scourge of drugs, they too are victims of this vile and evil trade. Their suffering will be very real and will soon be so much worse, their lives will never be the same.

It should be remembered that these two were organizers and enforcers, when the other members of the group showed fear and a reluctance to continue prior to leaving for the airport, they were threatened and intimidated by both these men.

As their last few seconds on this planet tick away they will have no-one else to blame, they made the fateful choices and now they shall pay the price.

There are no happy endings in stories about drugs.

[steelepulse]

The president of Indonesia made a point of how many people die from heroin on a daily basis in his country, He equates heroin smuggling with murder.

What he doesn't say though is that the drug trade is controlled by the military. It is known by EVERYONE who has ever had dealings with that cesspit of a country. He also doesn't acknowledge that one of his own senior advisers has admitted culpability in the murder of the human rights lawyer who exposed military involvement in drugs and extra-judicial killings ( Munir, murdered on a Garuda flight to Amsterdam).

The hypocrisy of Indonesia , including its slimy president, knows no bounds. Indonesia pays 'blood money' to stop the execution of their citizens in Saudi Arabia and lobbies for clemency for those sentenced to death for drugs.

It might well be too late for Chan and Sukamaran but just wait to see the Indonesians crawl when it comes to executing the Brit on death row...because they know that the UK will involve the EU. There is nothing like the prospect of losing money to see these cretins change their attitude to capital punishment.

At least one good thing will come out of this: Australia will simply give up on attempts to engage Indonesia.

Well... there's a hate post in all its glory.

Is that Slobodan Milosevic on your avatar ? Sure looks like him. Your hero perhaps ?

It's Paulie from The Sopranos, and BTW, a great show if you've never seen nor heard of it.

[chooka]

The only question is "Can the Bali Nine read?". If the answer is "Yes", then what is there to discuss?

How much clearer do you want the Indonesians to make this?

It's hug a drug running criminal month.

[siam2007]

I had high hopes when Jokowi was elected president in 2014.

But until now, he failed completely in virtually everything he was doing.

How ridiculous to be "tough" and showing no merci, but at the same time begging for the life of his countrymen on deathrow in other countries.

what a miserable clown he is....

Oh, BTW --->>> no civilized country in the world should have a death penalty.

[boomerangutang]

There are signs posted everywhere. There are laws everywhere. Sometimes laws are broken. I estimate about 10,000 vehicles go through red lights EACH HOUR just in the small city of Chiang Rai where I reside. Well, you can say drug smuggling is worse than going through a red light. But is it really? A truck going through a red light can smash in to a van full of schoolchildren. Smuggling a bit of pot can contribute to a few smokers lying in a room, half asleep, listening to music.

Indonesian authorities in particular, and SE Asian lawmakers in general need to take a close look at individual drugs, and gauge what harm really comes from them. It's easy to look at the worst that can happen by using the worst drugs. Just as it's easy to see the worst that happens with drunk drivers (also, a drug-related crime), or drunks who murder. Indonesians can also look at a passenger plane full of people, piloted by a Muslim who decides to turn off auto-pilot, lock the cabin door (to keep out the co-pilot who just left), and promptly push the controls to do a suicidal crash landing - killing everyone on board. Was that act less harmful than a few people smoking pot, or a guy shooting up some heroin in a back alley?

The pilot of Egypt Air did that mass murder while sober (and calling out 'Allah Akbar'), so it's reasonable to infer that being sober can be murderous (as saying 'Allah Akbar' can be a murderer's chant).

You get the picture? There are over a dozen different drugs (including alcohol), each with different effects. To grab someone who is 'trafficking' any one of those drugs (except alcohol) and proceed to kill that person - is either ignorant or cruel or a combination thereof.

[neverdie]

Wish they would hurry up and execute these grubs, it's almost 10 years overdue !

So sick of hearing about it in the media......come on indo get the job done f f s!

[bannork]

I had high hopes when Jokowi was elected president in 2014.

But until now, he failed completely in virtually everything he was doing.

How ridiculous to be "tough" and showing no merci, but at the same time begging for the life of his countrymen on deathrow in other countries.

what a miserable clown he is....

Oh, BTW --->>> no civilized country in the world should have a death penalty.

็He gained popularity at home when he save the Indonesian maid from the gallows in Saudi Arabia but it might not work so well next time round if he carries on with these killings.

[Xircal]

To throw a cat in with the pigeons I believe these two guys may have been the king pins of this operation but neither of them was actually found with any drugs on them or in their possession.

The other people on the plane had drugs in their possession and they have been given lesser sentences.

Of course they won't have been carrying drugs themselves. That's why they hire couriers.

But like the directors of a company that goes bust, they're the ones that ran the operation and therefore they're responsible for the actions of their gang members.

It's also incorrect to say that others caught with drugs in their possession were given lesser sentences. Lindsay Sandiford, a 58 year grandmother will also face the firing squad in soon and she was only a courier: http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-31080056

[hawker9000]

I had high hopes when Jokowi was elected president in 2014.

But until now, he failed completely in virtually everything he was doing.

How ridiculous to be "tough" and showing no merci, but at the same time begging for the life of his countrymen on deathrow in other countries.

what a miserable clown he is....

Oh, BTW --->>> no civilized country in the world should have a death penalty.

So true - an active drug trafficking industry is SO much more civilized...

I wonder which happens more often: executions for drug offenses, or drug-related deaths (including cartel killings)...

[wooloomooloo]

I'm sure the Indonesian government will send their bodies back to Oz, which is nice, and within a week the whole sorry episode will be forgotten about. Except for one thing - a reminder to those that come behind them.

Edited February 26, 2015 by wooloomooloo

[boomerangutang]

US's DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency) works tirelessly to influence smaller countries - adhere to the DEA's strictures about drugs. They wield big influence, particularly via big money (given to governments, sifted through higher-ups) or gifts (1,000 Humvees given to military), or threats of diplomatic sanctions. Carrot and Stick. No matter that some of the DEA's edicts were written nearly a century ago by men who were themselves drug addicts: Anslinger, J.Edgar Hoover's right hand man, was a morphine junkie. J. Edgar himself was a hard drinker and had his secretary put a syringe of vitamins in his arm each morning. Those not-so-sage old men born in the early 20th century enacted draconian drug laws which were then exported to Indonesia, Thailand and other countries. Even the old men's taboo against hemp (which can't get a person stoned) is still extant. Indonesia, Singapore and Thai authorities don't know anything about hemp, yet they still outlaw it (going on 90 years), because the US's DEA compels them to.

By continuing such draconian stupid harmful laws (even while the US is easing toward reasonableness in their drug laws) - it shows SE Asian govt's as ignorant and cruel. The Spanish got rid of the Inquisition. Similarly, SE Asian countries should get rid of their cruel drug laws which destroy peoples' lives. Come in to the 21st Century, Indonesia (and you other SE Asian ignorant countries) - the welcome mat is out.

[cup-O-coffee]

Just execute the vermin and then move on.

"If you see a snake, just kill it - don't appoint a committee on snakes."

-Ross Perot

I would have to agree with you on the basis that this world is so screwed up right now that I almost feel like I am on another planet compared to the way things were when I was growing up. Just about everything I was taught that was bad is now, at present, being mitigated and diluted and no one seems to give a hoot. No one these days wants to step forward. This "Age of Rights" and "Age of Entitlement" and MASS multiculturalism I find myself in is tearing up every fabric of anything that has an age old identity. There are no fundamentals anymore that are not being attacked. There are no foundational belief systems that are not being attacked.

It is a scary time we all live in. A lot of these threads I respond to compel me to go through a lot fo thinking and research before I even click the "Add Reply" button. Many times I have a response and simply cancel it, thinking "What's the use".

I think a lot of people are finding that they feel abandoned by the things they used to be able to rely on. Now those things are turning against them, and they feel abandoned, confused, angry, stressed, and so on. It's going to cause a metamorphosis in a lot of countries and races and cultures. So many issues that used to be cut and dried, and now are being so diluted with misinformation and chaos that people are standing there like a deer in the headlights.

It sucks.

I do know that I would not lose any sleep if I were to read that drug dealers had a bullet put in their heads for addicting kids to their filth. I don;t think anyone can ever dissuade me from this belief, and were they to threaten me for thinking this way, I would definitely not comply.

On some things, a person has to put their foot down.

Just a few thoughts about this.

[cup-O-coffee]

It's real simple. You know converting from Islam is illegal. If you convert from Islam, you know you're breaking the law. As a result, you have zero rights when you get caught.

No sympathy from me.

Point is that the statement is only going to work in so far as the law is just.

Also, knowing in advance that the breaking of an unjust law brings with it the death penalty, doesn't entail that the person so breaking it deserves to die. Stupid perhaps, but deserving to die I don't think so. There would be no population pressure anywhere in the world if stupidity had that consequence.

Drunk drivers cause far more deaths, but there's no clamor to have those law breakers put to death. Perhaps we should?

I really do not understand what you are saying here. Why is it honorable to put to death your enemy in a war; whether it be a 1000 yard shot in the head, or a hand to hand fight and a bayonet through the throat (the victim being a good, loving father, fighting for what he believes is an honorable cause) ...yet you describe a tendency to shy away from putting someone to death, in whom this someone has no thought for any sanctity of human life, whether it be man, woman, child or elderly. I simply do not understand.

Drunk drivers? There are more traffic fatalities around the world from sober people than drunken people. I do not understand your point. People who drive drunk drink alcohol and go home and maybe make it. Maybe not. People who sell drugs maybe delude themselves into thinking they are bringing joy to the world, but I doubt it. I do. I have to give them the benefit of the coubt and believe that they know exactly what they are doing, yet whether or not they spend time every day thinking about the damage and destruction they are causing to society is a matter of debate. I would submit that they are smart enough to understand that they are gainfully employed in a bad thing, from which no good can come from.

It really is a very confusing world we live in. But the thing I believe is that life is a game. If you make the wrong throw of the dice, then you have to be man enough to take what you get. Maybe these drug dealers donated some of their drug money to orphanages, or bought nice things for their innocent and unknowing children. But the ting is, they are accountable. Letting them off easy when they are apprehended sends a bad message. Letting them off easy is an insult beyond antisemitism, beyond racism, beyond hate crimes, as far as I am concerned.

One does not need drug money to donate time to help an orphanage and bring a smile to a child's face, or take the time to play catch ball with your son, or read a story to your daughter, or share a bottle of cheap wine with your wife and watch the sunset go down.

People need a chance at life. They need every chance they can get. Letting drug dealers off easy throws a wrench in any chance people have at that.

Just my thoughts on that.

[boomerangutang]

I do know that I would not lose any sleep if I were to read that drug dealers had a bullet put in their heads for addicting kids to their filth.

How about if the drug dealers were dealing the most cumulative harmful drug in the world? I'm referring to alcoholic drinks. Would you like to put a bullet to the head of everyone dealing alcohol? You'd need truckloads of bullets.

[hawker9000]

I do know that I would not lose any sleep if I were to read that drug dealers had a bullet put in their heads for addicting kids to their filth.

How about if the drug dealers were dealing the most cumulative harmful drug in the world? I'm referring to alcoholic drinks. Would you like to put a bullet to the head of everyone dealing alcohol? You'd need truckloads of bullets.

You're only referring to the usual alcohol nonsense. Of course it gets abused, but not nearly to the same proportion of its users as narcotic drugs. Glue gets abused. Sugary drinks get abused. ...none of them belong in the same category with drug abuse. But the user community keeps trying the same lame talking point. 'Points for persistence I guess.

[boomerangutang]

I do know that I would not lose any sleep if I were to read that drug dealers had a bullet put in their heads for addicting kids to their filth.

How about if the drug dealers were dealing the most cumulative harmful drug in the world? I'm referring to alcoholic drinks. Would you like to put a bullet to the head of everyone dealing alcohol? You'd need truckloads of bullets.

You're only referring to the usual alcohol nonsense. Of course it gets abused, but not nearly to the same proportion of its users as narcotic drugs. Glue gets abused. Sugary drinks get abused. ...none of them belong in the same category with drug abuse. But the user community keeps trying the same lame talking point. 'Points for persistence I guess.

Some people are stuck thinking in establishmentarianism restrictions. Others are antiestablishmenttarianists. I'm the latter.

[hawker9000]

I do know that I would not lose any sleep if I were to read that drug dealers had a bullet put in their heads for addicting kids to their filth.

How about if the drug dealers were dealing the most cumulative harmful drug in the world? I'm referring to alcoholic drinks. Would you like to put a bullet to the head of everyone dealing alcohol? You'd need truckloads of bullets.

You're only referring to the usual alcohol nonsense. Of course it gets abused, but not nearly to the same proportion of its users as narcotic drugs. Glue gets abused. Sugary drinks get abused. ...none of them belong in the same category with drug abuse. But the user community keeps trying the same lame talking point. 'Points for persistence I guess.

Some people are stuck thinking in establishmentarianism restrictions. Others are antiestablishmenttarianists. I'm the latter.

...And some people get "stuck" on other things - and THAT'S what this is all about. Not the polysyllabic labelmakers.

[chooka]

So indonesia has now warned Australia to butt out and stop appealing against the execution or they will release an asylum seeker tsunami on Australia with 10k plus asylum seekers waiting to head for Australia. The indo government will assist all who want to go.

Indonesia has Australia by the balls and she knows it. She holds far more power than Australia and is squeezing our nuts. Time for Australia to shut up and obey.

Edited March 10, 2015 by chooka

[hawker9000]

Count yourselves lucky that you at least have a few hundred miles of open ocean between you and your "Mexico"...

[H1w4yR1da]

Indonesia has Australia by the balls and she knows it. She holds far more power than Australia and is squeezing our nuts. Time for Australia to shut up and obey.

I can't believe that sentence is written by an Aussie.

Whatever happened to Aussie battlers?

Sad.

[Prbkk]

So indonesia has now warned Australia to butt out and stop appealing against the execution or they will release an asylum seeker tsunami on Australia with 10k plus asylum seekers waiting to head for Australia. The indo government will assist all who want to go.

Indonesia has Australia by the balls and she knows it. She holds far more power than Australia and is squeezing our nuts. Time for Australia to shut up and obey.

No they don't hold any power over Australia and it's long past time for Australians to tell Indonesia to go to hell. Australia has bent over backwards to accommodate this dysfunctional excuse for a country, going right to to support for their war of independence against the Dutch, co-sponsorship of their admission to the UN, massive aid programs worth tens of billions of dollars, support in health, police training, education...and in return we get terrorist bombs and posturing about drug mules from a morally bankrupt sleaze bag and now threats of asylum seekers ( ie those people who pay off corrupt Indonesians to enter that country for the sole purpose of sailing to Australia).

Most Australians have had a gut full of Indonesia, Indonesians and their threats.

[bannork]

with all the focus on the Bali duo, people like this man should not be forgotten.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/my-ghost-will-haunt-you-indonesian-death-row-inmate-to-be-killed-with-bali-nine-duo-speaks-of-injustice-20150309-13z6zi.html

[hawker9000]

So indonesia has now warned Australia to butt out and stop appealing against the execution or they will release an asylum seeker tsunami on Australia with 10k plus asylum seekers waiting to head for Australia. The indo government will assist all who want to go.

Indonesia has Australia by the balls and she knows it. She holds far more power than Australia and is squeezing our nuts. Time for Australia to shut up and obey.

No they don't hold any power over Australia and it's long past time for Australians to tell Indonesia to go to hell. Australia has bent over backwards to accommodate this dysfunctional excuse for a country, going right to to support for their war of independence against the Dutch, co-sponsorship of their admission to the UN, massive aid programs worth tens of billions of dollars, support in health, police training, education...and in return we get terrorist bombs and posturing about drug mules from a morally bankrupt sleaze bag and now threats of asylum seekers ( ie those people who pay off corrupt Indonesians to enter that country for the sole purpose of sailing to Australia).

Most Australians have had a gut full of Indonesia, Indonesians and their threats.

Just as is the case with public welfare, foreign aid rarely results in anything in return long term other than resentment & hostility. Dependency sets in, and it gets to be nothing more than a racket after awhile; "keep up the aid, pal, or we won't vote with you in the UN", or "...we'll send our welfare crowd your way",, or "...'we'll cozy up to China against you", or "...we won't extradite", or <fill in your own extortion scheme>. On the donor side, nobody wants to be the politician that queered the "warm & productive relationship" with that country...

[boomerangutang]

with all the focus on the Bali duo, people like this man should not be forgotten.

http://www.smh.com.au/world/my-ghost-will-haunt-you-indonesian-death-row-inmate-to-be-killed-with-bali-nine-duo-speaks-of-injustice-20150309-13z6zi.html

thanks for posting that link. I read the whole article.

Indonesian justice system sure looks decrepit. ...and not just because it criminalizes recreational drug users. It looks rotten from top to bottom.

[samran]

So indonesia has now warned Australia to butt out and stop appealing against the execution or they will release an asylum seeker tsunami on Australia with 10k plus asylum seekers waiting to head for Australia. The indo government will assist all who want to go.

Indonesia has Australia by the balls and she knows it. She holds far more power than Australia and is squeezing our nuts. Time for Australia to shut up and obey.

Chook, I think you are wrong.

I'm a firm believer that in most cases Australia has more diplomatic and economic clout than the other way around when it comes to the majority of SE Asian countries.

I think however we've fallen for the trap of believing the hype that the Asian model of development is somehow superior, and therefore aquiece to easily.

While I still think, sadly, that these lads will be dragged out and shot, the fact that their executions have been delayed is testament to the leverage we are using. The fact of the matter is, many of Australia's problems, whether they be illegal immigrants or terrorists, are also Indonesia's problems as well. Our fortunes are entwined more than either of us care to admit.