Women who say "Khrap" to the foreigner

[Squeegee]

Nothing to do with ladyboys who say "Ka" anyway, nor toms who've affected a masculine role.

Normally, this happens Thai on Thai when an adult is speaking with a child and, for example, a lady is essentially training a small boy to use the correct polite particle so she says "Khrap" to him. I was also once asked to do something similar with a baby girl, except in that case it was "Ja", similar to training her to say "Ka".

I most often experience this with venders. Usually I am a customer they have seen before and we speak Thai. The woman is likely middle aged, and not overtly unfriendly or racist towards me. Instead of saying "Ka" she will use "Khrap". I'm not talking about "Khrap-om", just the male speaker's polite particle.

On the other hand, there's a vender I use regularly who is not quite yet middle aged but she will soon be one of these very same types of lady, except that she also extremely sweet towards me and only uses "Ka". This makes me wonder if it's because once these Thai women have reached a certain age they become a matron figure and tend to use the male particle more often than just to small children, but that's a wild guess at some possible context.

I do feel a bit patronised, but I'm not sure if I should feel that way. So please help me peel another layer from the onion....

The question is, am I really being patronised as if I am a child by these people (it's happened a few times now) or is there some other context whereby a Thai will change the gender particle, such as in this case when speaking with foreigners?

[ukrules]

or is there some other context whereby a Thai will change the gender particle, such as in this case when speaking with foreigners?

Maybe they think you will only understand the male words because you're a guy...

[Squeegee]

or is there some other context whereby a Thai will change the gender particle, such as in this case when speaking with foreigners?

Maybe they think you will only understand the male words because you're a guy...

Definitely not that.

I'm thinking it might be related to the woman perceiving herself as being older than me, and possibly because I am a foreigner trying to speak Thai and thus still learning (I think my spoken Thai is a bit better than that though) so maybe it's a variation on the 'training a child' theme, whether intentionally patronising or not; or possibly as I said due to some matronly affectation once they reach a certain age and think they're not dealing with a pee in the pee/nong system.

[Squeegee]

Example: friendly and/or chatty situation at street food vender, all in Thai language. Once food and money changes hands and I say thank you she will respond: "Khrap."

[ukrules]

Example: friendly and/or chatty situation at street food vender, all in Thai language. Once food and money changes hands and I say thank you she will respond: "Khrap."

I checked with my girlfriend and she said it's definitely not meant to be patronising, in fact maybe quite the opposite.

[NeverSure]

Both of my lady friends in Isaan say or write "sawadee khrap" as a greeting to me. Don't know if that helps. They are both very educated.

[Squeegee]

Thanks for those last two replies.

[benalibina]

Example: friendly and/or chatty situation at street food vender, all in Thai language. Once food and money changes hands and I say thank you she will respond: "Khrap."

I checked with my girlfriend and she said it's definitely not meant to be patronising, in fact maybe quite the opposite.

That has always been my understanding as well.

[NeverSure]

Both of my lady friends in Isaan say or write "sawadee khrap" as a greeting to me. Don't know if that helps. They are both very educated.

I might add that when I asked one of them what it meant she told me it was a polite greeting and that I could say "sawadee kha" to her. This gal has a masters degree, is fluent in English, is a school teacher and is very polite and traditional.

I think it's a complement and/or sign of respect similar to us saying "greetings, sir."

[MZurf]

Both of my lady friends in Isaan say or write "sawadee khrap" as a greeting to me. Don't know if that helps. They are both very educated.

I might add that when I asked one of them what it meant she told me it was a polite greeting and that I could say "sawadee kha" to her. This gal has a masters degree, is fluent in English, is a school teacher and is very polite and traditional.

I think it's a complement and/or sign of respect similar to us saying "greetings, sir."

You mean there are native English teachers in this country that actually know how to speak English? Who knew!!!

[NeverSure]

Both of my lady friends in Isaan say or write "sawadee khrap" as a greeting to me. Don't know if that helps. They are both very educated.

I might add that when I asked one of them what it meant she told me it was a polite greeting and that I could say "sawadee kha" to her. This gal has a masters degree, is fluent in English, is a school teacher and is very polite and traditional.

I think it's a complement and/or sign of respect similar to us saying "greetings, sir."

You mean there are native English teachers in this country that actually know how to speak English? Who knew!!!

LOL. She's a Thai. She is the English teacher at a village school, though.

Edited February 25, 2015 by NeverSure

[SlyAnimal]

haha I asked my wife, and she said "Yeah, sometimes it can happen", which prompted a small debate, where I still don't understand why they might do it.

[Keesters]

Have in my 30 years heard maids/nannies use khrap to a male child but it has never been used on me by a fem.

[maybefitz]

My Mother in Law, (now sadly deceased) always used Khrap to me. I checked with my wife, and she said it was common, as Nang was head of the family. Not just immediate family, but with the very extended family, which I guessed would be half the village. So, not a rare event.

[minikev]

I occasionally get it in a business situation. I certainly don't see it as patronising, the times it has happened have been in a good deal so I see it as polite.

[SOUTHERNSTAR]

They can be lady boys. 555

[bender92]

Both of my lady friends in Isaan say or write "sawadee khrap" as a greeting to me. Don't know if that helps. They are both very educated.

That's because they are men. Sorry to break it to you.

[Suradit69]

Men and women occasionally use each others polite particle when talking to young children or foreigners of the opposite gender. The logic here is that someone still learning the language is likely to repeat what they hear, and so they're helping teach the learner the correct way to speak. Some women also regularly like to use kráp instead of kâ out of habit, fashion or individuality. It's quite a bit rarer for male speakers to do the equivalent, though some occasionally say kâ to try and sound 'sweeter' or use the similar soundingฮ่ะ hâ as an informal alternative to kráp . kâ or hâ when pronounced by male speakers are always pronounced with a short vowel sound, the longer kâa or hâa sounds are always used only by women.

https://www.into-asia.com/thai_language/grammar/krapka.php

You mean there are native English teachers in this country that actually know how to speak English? Who knew!!!

"You mean there are native English teachers ..."

Not sure if you've grasped the concept behind the expression "native English speaker."

[MauiSteveBKK]

OMG.

A Thread I Actually Enjoyed.

Khrap To You. Khrap To Me.

[Lee4Life]

I have had this happen a couple of times while riding my bicycle, it has been when approaching from the rear and saying "sawadee krap" before ever passing them, so it is not a case where they meant to be impolite to the foreigner. Both times the women were younger than I. I did wonder why it happened, but didn't feel insulted at all.

[senor123]

Yes, all a bit weird.

When I really cared about the Thai language I noticed that my missus used both versions when talking to me.

[FangFerang]

I have only heard this once, and it was from a woman who was well into her seventies, and a sweet matriarch if I ever met one. Other than that, I have never heard it in business or formal situations at all -- even a lady-in-waiting I know, honorific Rhong, always smiles and says ka....

One thing I have noticed, most Thai women say ka with their most feminine voice when they answer the phone, and it is very sensuously beautiful. Enough to make a dead man sweat. IMHO

Edited February 25, 2015 by FangFerang

[petercool]

A post using profanity was removed

[atyclb]

she's an aspiring tom

[thurien]

don't be too touchy, folks -- else you couldn't order any "golden pumkin curry" which translates "gaeng <deleted> tong"...

[csabo]

My GF says Kha to me always but I have a friend who is also female who often says Khrap. I asked my GF about it who says its a hip thing some young girls do now but she also says it is not in good form. I tend to believe the former and discount the latter. Bottom line is you are not being insulted.

[oztaurus]

Sometimes I find that it sounds like my gf is saying "khap" (but not "khrap") to me, and many Thai, male and female will omit "r" from their words wherever possible anyway .... in the end I figured that she was just saying "ka" and then as she closed her mouth it tended to finish the sound with an almost unvoiced "p" ..... sounding like khap

Not sure if that is relevant to OP's situation

[alien365]

My missus does this with waiting staff and young students too. Personally I don't like it as it sounds too masculine when said by a lady and it feels a bit condescending. Nevertheless, its a cultural trait and as long as it is not meant to be derogatory then I don't have a problem with it.

[ToddinChonburi]

sounds to me like that is how she thinks she is supposed to address you probably from hearing males say it.

[Bill Miller]

I had wondered about this, too. One of the maids at the apartment complex I lived at for a couple of months would often give me "khrap", but with a big smile and unfailingly polite and helpful. I have noticed it from time to time with other Thai women "of a certain age", as well.
I had at first put it down to my not-quite-ready-for-a-hearing -aid status, but having noticed it gave it closer attention.
I surmised that the "rule" about polite particles is not all that strict in practice, like so many other facets of Thai culture. No biggie as it IS an item of politeness. At 61 any lady who wants to patronize me as a "boy" gets a smile.