Thailand vs. Hong Kong

[SS1]

I'm a young graduate and soon starting a distance learning masters degree for a UK university. This allows me to study from any location and I have planned to move to Thailand for the time I'm working on my masters. The course requires around 15 hours per week of study, so I'll be looking for full/part time jobs in Bangkok to do along my studies. I have done my research and know that Bangkok is not the best place for young graduates to start a career path and that finding decent jobs can be a challenge. However I'm sick of staying in Europe and as I'll be studying anyways I want to give this a try!

Many of my friends and older professionals I have talked with have told me that I should look more into Hong Kong. To be honest, I'm pretty open to everything and thinking about trying to find work over there as well. With my budget of 30-40k/month, I'll be having Bangkok as a base as it would be impossible to live in Hong Kong with that money I believe. However I've been to Bangkok a lot, worked in Thailand but never been to Hong Kong and I'm wondering that how does it compare to Bangkok and Thailand in General.

How is living in Hong Kong compared to Thailand in general?

Are there many more/better jobs available for foreigners in HK compared to BKK?

How do the costs of living and average salaries compare?

Would be great to hear experiences from people who have lived in both countries.

[bendejo]

In general terms (apply that qualifier to this entire post), HK is more crowded, more bustling, more expensive. For someone younger probably more things to do, places to socialize. I would think among the younger generation there is a sense of wonder what the future of the place will be (see recent demonstrations regarding candidate selection), China's role etc. Diversity -- Chinese yes, but China is a big place and there is the influence of assorted provinces, especially evident in the restaurants once you figure them out. You might be surprised to find out a lot of the people don't really understand each other when they speak due to the dialects. On the other hand it is trying to be a modern international city comparable to SIngapore. If you wanted to get out of town for a short trip there are the other HK islands, or a ferry trip to Macau. I don't know how easy it would be to come and go from the Mainland. But that's it, to go any place else means flying.

I haven't been there in a few years. I used to occasionally do a Thai visa run there, via cheap tix on Air Asia. On return, ALWAYS hit by the realization of how much 'calmer' Bangkok is. In Bangkok a lot less pushing and shoving, people coughing/sneezing in your face, and general rudeness.

[ThaiPauly]

Finding a place to live in HK will be WAY MORE expensive than Thailand, it's one of the most expensive cities in the world

[AZBill]

Singapore. A lot of opportunity there.

[SS1]

Finding a place to live in HK will be WAY MORE expensive than Thailand, it's one of the most expensive cities in the world

This is what I've understood, but moving to HK would be only in case of finding a good job over there that could pay for rent too. This is why I'm also wondering how the job opportunities and salaries compare to Thailand for Westerners.

Singapore. A lot of opportunity there.

I've been looking into this as well, but I've understood that Singapore is so expensive, that it would only make sense if you get a highly paid senior role or a role at a managerial level in a company. I did research for graduate jobs at some point, and the salaries seemed to be about 1/2 or 1/3 of what graduate jobs pay in the UK for example, although the living costs are very high! Also a friend of mine from Singapore told me that nowadays it's difficult for companies to hire foreigners due to protectionist measures to keep jobs for locals.

Edited February 26, 2015 by SS1

[chingmai331]

If you do not have a job offer prior to arrival in HK, you will be behind the 8-ball immediately. Housing and restaurant food WAY more expensive in HK compared to BKK. Public trans excellent, damn near to every corner of the entire place. If you have UK passport you can enter and stay for 180 days, check it out. USA, most others, can stay 90 days only. Also find at least 2 HK forums which may have good info for you, re jobs, immig, etc.

[JohnnyJazz]

Thailand is for holidaymakers and washed up expats, not for young graduates. China offers a good alternative, Beijing being the best place to study the language, Shanghai is a great place for business students followed by Shenzhen that has the additional advantage to be close to Hong Kong. Regarding the cost of accomodation flat sharing is very common in Hong Kong and other top Asian cities amongst students and young professional and street food is not that expensive. Other places to consider are Singapore and Taipei.

If you are serious about your future Thailand shouldn't even be on your prospect list. Now if you want to take a year off ...

Edited : I forgot retirees in the list of people who may consider moving to Thailand. So make money first and when you're rich enough take an early retirement to Thailand if you really like the country that much.

Edited February 27, 2015 by JohnnyJazz

[SheungWan]

Thailand is for holidaymakers and washed up expats, not for young graduates. China offers a good alternative, Beijing being the best place to study the language, Shanghai is a great place for business students followed by Shenzhen that has the additional advantage to be close to Hong Kong. Regarding the cost of accomodation flat sharing is very common in Hong Kong and other top Asian cities amongst students and young professional and street food is not that expensive. Other places to consider are Singapore and Taipei.

If you are serious about your future Thailand shouldn't even be on your prospect list. Now if you want to take a year off ...

Edited : I forgot retirees in the list of people who may consider moving to Thailand. So make money first and when you're rich enough take an early retirement to Thailand if you really like the country that much.

It is totally a non-brainer for a young graduate with any career aspirations. Hong Kong is where the action is and cheaper accommodation can be found in the New Territories. As for studies, the OP should consider switching to a post-grad course at HK OU or one of the other places of study. At least with the HK OU there are some classes that can be attended and therefore a network of friends developed. P/T work for grads not so easy to find but TEFL an option if you have got a proper qualification and a decent CV to support. On the other hand, come to Thailand and be a washed-up graduate. Remakes of The Beach await your street cred aspirations and be sure to wear a flower in your hair.

[Soutpeel]

It is totally a non-brainer for a young graduate

or maybe said young graduate stays were he is and gets some real work experience and some semblance of career before believing he can get a job in SEA ?

The days of some nondescript graduate coming out of a UK university and start a career in SEA are gone, far too many good local graduates kicking about in Singapore/HK etc.

if coming for a gap year by all means

Edited February 27, 2015 by Soutpeel

[SheungWan]

It is totally a non-brainer for a young graduate

or maybe said young graduate stays were he is and gets some real work experience and some semblance of career before believing he can get a job in SEA ?

The days of some nondescript graduate coming out of a UK university and start a career in SEA are gone, far too many good local graduates kicking about in Singapore/HK etc.

if coming for a gap year by all means

I wouldn't totally disagree with that particularly as jobs are not so easy to come by in SEA. I am also reserved as to what the distance mode masters is all about and from what Uni. However, the advantage of going to HK to complete a local Masters if accompanied by some intensive learning of Chinese and p/t English teaching is that even if work proves elusive to come by in HK the CV starts to look interesting for employment back in the UK with companies with SEA links either in export or finance. So in a roundabout way it is one strategy for coming out here and continuing one's research into the higher callings of life in Lan Kwai Fong.

[rahul2630]

Hong kong is the most expensive place all over the world..

[MrWorldwide]

Hong Kong. Just do it. I have nothing against Bangkok, but at the OP's age and with his career aspirations, why not throw yourself in at the deep end and start swimming ? You can always come to Thailand when time permits - its not as if they turn people away at Swampy because they're earning good money somewhere else ......

[jixuso]

Hong Kong. Just do it. I have nothing against Bangkok, but at the OP's age and with his career aspirations, why not throw yourself in at the deep end and start swimming ? You can always come to Thailand when time permits - its not as if they turn people away at Swampy because they're earning good money somewhere else ......

I work online from Pattaya. The best life I have had the last 11 years. All before age 40. No regrets. HK gets cold and is expensive.

[MrWorldwide]

Hong Kong. Just do it. I have nothing against Bangkok, but at the OP's age and with his career aspirations, why not throw yourself in at the deep end and start swimming ? You can always come to Thailand when time permits - its not as if they turn people away at Swampy because they're earning good money somewhere else ......

I work online from Pattaya. The best life I have had the last 11 years. All before age 40. No regrets. HK gets cold and is expensive.

Fine - you made your choice and you're happy with it. I live in Pattaya, and I've been to Hong Kong : I'll take the crowds and the cost of living here any day of the week, but I'm not an ambitious young person looking to build up a CV nor am I kicking off in a world where China will still be a major player however things turn out with their economy over the next 30 years. Given a choice between learning Mandarin and learning Thai, I suspect that most of the ambitious types would opt for Mandarin, even if Cantonese is the dominant dialect in HK. i dont know what the future holds for Hong Kong, but as of right now I think he could do a lot worse.

[fey]

definately hk over bangkok, if you can afford it.

closet size rooms start out at about $750 usd a month. exciting city, lots to do. watch your budget.

want to move there myself, but keep putting it off thinking i would rather have that extra money st the end of the month.

great nightlife in hk. girls all over from china, india everywhere coming in. very international feeling vs the us and them stilted stuff you grt in bkk.

Edited February 27, 2015 by fey

[CRUNCHER]

If you do not speak, read and write Chinese getting a reasonable job at-the recruitment level will be exceeding;y difficult. You will need a work permit. Teaching might be an option. Try the British council or write to HK Education Department. They used to hire native English speakers, but don't know if they still do. Pay was not very good and often working conditions not that good. Worth a try though.

[Gweiloman]

From a career perspective, it's a no brainer. Hong Kong is where you need to be.

But there is a big downside. As you said yourself, it's nigh on impossible to live on 30-40k baht a month in Hkg. That amount of money hardly covers rental (unless you want to live in shared accomodation, shared toilets and sharing with cockroaches and rats).

The most basic of meals (if you eat outside) would be something like wantan noodles. You would need to have something to drink as well (iced milk tea for example). That would cost you around HK$30 for a bowl of noodles, more if in Central or TST. But you can't eat this every day, every meal.

Go out to Wanchai on a Friday or Sat night. Your drink might cost only HK$50 but the girl's tequila rock and roll cost HK$150. And don't think that just because you're a farang, you will get girls on the cheap. Even the Thai girls who are working in places like Neptune has "learnt" to adapt.

There is a common term used to describe farangs (gweilos) in Hong Kong. FILTH - failed in London, try Hong Kong. This will give you an example of what you will be up against in Hkg.

However, from a career perspective, it is the best country in Asia at the moment (forget Singapore, it's got all the negatives of Hkg and none of the positives).

[GinBoy2]

I have to say I love HK, but...expensive doesn't even begin to describe it. I have also lived in Singapore & Shanghai which are also horribly expensive if your not there as a working expat, and I have to add expecting a certain standard of living.

'if' you are a young guy with money, HK can't be beat IMHO, but being poor in HK sucks.

Bangkok, Thailand in general has it's drawbacks as we are all painfully aware. Unlike HK or Singapore things don't always work, crap is everywhere, but it's helluva lot cheaper to live here with a reasonable standard of living on relatively little income

[mockingbird]

I did a distance learning degree while I worked a few years ago. I took a year off and did the last year from Thailand, coming home for my finals. Cost me a bit, but I had adequate savings, and was a brilliant year overall.

Your issue, is that the only work you'll get is a teaching job in Thailand. A graduate with no experience will not get a job in his/her field in either of these countries. As for Thailand, even with experience, it's unlikely any local company will hire you. Why would they? Plenty of qualified locals.

I'm lucky enough now, in that I can work remotely, so I get to spend long stints in Thailand, earning a decent western wage.

My advice to you would be to forget about getting work for now. 30-40000 baht is ample for you to live in Thailand, but as other posters have pointed out, is not nearly enough for Hong Kong. Grab a double/triple entry tourist visa, get your masters, go back home and get some experience. Opportunities will open up for you then.

Best of luck to you.

Edited February 28, 2015 by mockingbird

[SS1]

Thanks for all the advice. I obviously woulnd't be able to live in Hong Kong on my budget of 30-40k/month but perhaps I will try to apply for jobs there even if I'm based in Bangkok. Easy to catch a plane to check it out and go to any job interviews that may come up if I'm lucky. I wouldn't be considering Bangkok as a place for serious career options, but as I will be studying it's not like I'm going to throw my opportunities away even if I'm working from Thailand. The good thing with the distance learning masters is that I am able to extend the duration, e.g. in case I would find decent full-time employment I would be able to still do the masters simultaneously at my own speed.

I'm not planning to stay in Thailand permanently, but it would be a nice place to stay while working on the masters and Bangkok would be a good base to stay while looking for jobs in other Asian cities. With the UK degree, it's always possible to return to Farangland with the same opportunities as before.

I wouldn't totally disagree with that particularly as jobs are not so easy to come by in SEA. I am also reserved as to what the distance mode masters is all about and from what Uni. However, the advantage of going to HK to complete a local Masters if accompanied by some intensive learning of Chinese and p/t English teaching is that even if work proves elusive to come by in HK the CV starts to look interesting for employment back in the UK with companies with SEA links either in export or finance. So in a roundabout way it is one strategy for coming out here and continuing one's research into the higher callings of life in Lan Kwai Fong.

The uni I'm planning to do my masters at is at The University of Leicester - it's in the top 25 of UK Universities and on similar level with the uni I will be soon getting my bachelors degree from. (Misleading OP, it was supposed to say "soon to be graduate" ). I took your advice on another thread where you said something negative about University of Liverpool online programs. Did some research on them and found many people complaining about it, saying it's a degree mill and some even going as far as calling it a scam, because the program isn't really managed by UoL. Many of their functions are outsourced apparently and in reality it's just Laureate using the UoL brand.

You are right about doing the masters in HK though, it would be a good idea. However, I think it would be too expensive and too much work (in comparison to UK universities) to be able to do much other work on the side. Like you said, that's the issue indeed with the distance programs, that you lack the network of IRL students..

I did a distance learning degree while I worked a few years ago. I took a year off and did the last year from Thailand, coming home for my finals. Cost me a bit, but I had adequate savings, and was a brilliant year overall.

Your issue, is that the only work you'll get is a teaching job in Thailand. A graduate with no experience will not get a job in his/her field in either of these countries. As for Thailand, even with experience, it's unlikely any local company will hire you. Why would they? Plenty of qualified locals.

I'm lucky enough now, in that I can work remotely, so I get to spend long stints in Thailand, earning a decent western wage.

My advice to you would be to forget about getting work for now. 30-40000 baht is ample for you to live in Thailand, but as other posters have pointed out, is not nearly enough for Hong Kong. Grab a double/triple entry tourist visa, get your masters, go back home and get some experience. Opportunities will open up for you then.

Best of luck to you.

Nice to see you did something similar and thanks for the good advice. However, I don't buy into the "all you'll get is a teaching job" that a lot of people say, since I've already had a couple of job offers from Thailand that are relevant to my business studies where I have been specialising in marketing. Perhaps not jobs with great career development opportunities, but still jobs that are perfectly relevant for my studies. It's definitely more challenging than finding one in Europe, but not impossible

I haven't got that much work experience, but still some which puts me ahead of quite a few graduates just coming straight from uni. Excluding casual summer jobs, I have 1 years full-time work experience working in research and marketing for a large UK enterprise, and 9 months total experience working in marketing for a foreign SME based in Thailand (IT-company, 2 months full-time internship, 7 months part time remote work). I know it isn't much, but will definitely help me get started.

Edited March 1, 2015 by SS1