Nan Buddhists protest mosque construction

[Petchou]

Bigotry and ignorance in their splendors here.

[Alwyn]

"differences in lifestyle and culture" between Buddhists and Muslims, and possible "unrest and violence" that could follow the construction of the mosque."

On whose part?

The Muslims just want a place to pray.

What's wrong with that?

Oh.. I can answer that one B.P. (I remembered..) It's probably a lot to with noise pollution and yes, I know Thais can be noisy without consideration for anybody else. But the call to prayer which is invariably a recording played through monster speakers, plus the Friday call to prayer, starts at 5:00 for the fajr prayer (pre-dawn. Prayer starts at 5:30, call to prayer is 30 minutes previous). As we all know this call to prayer goes 5 times a day but the early one is not pleasant.

If you've ever lived close to a Mosque you will truly appreciate the noise level.. Then next will be people being told they can't cook pork in the vicinity and dogs will disappear...

[Bluespunk]

"differences in lifestyle and culture" between Buddhists and Muslims, and possible "unrest and violence" that could follow the construction of the mosque."

On whose part?

The Muslims just want a place to pray.

What's wrong with that?

Oh.. I can answer that one B.P. (I remembered..) It's probably a lot to with noise pollution and yes, I know Thais can be noisy without consideration for anybody else. But the call to prayer which is invariably a recording played through monster speakers, plus the Friday call to prayer, starts at 5:00 for the fajr prayer (pre-dawn. Prayer starts at 5:30, call to prayer is 30 minutes previous). As we all know this call to prayer goes 5 times a day but the early one is not pleasant.

If you've ever lived close to a Mosque you will truly appreciate the noise level.. Then next will be people being told they can't cook pork in the vicinity and dogs will disappear...

Lived next to mosque in Kuwait for 5 years. Bit noisy around eid but that aside no problems at all. Same when I lived in Bradford.

[rametindallas]

the people of the south were Buddhist a 1,000 years before mo started his cult.

the arabs were pagan a 1,000 years plus later, they worshiped many gods/idols, allah the moon god suited mo' and so mote it be.

allah is NOT the GOD of CHRISTIANS and JEWS.

allah, moon god, they worship stars and moon cycles.

and really like to kill people.

the mosque is a good place to store weapons of destruction, assemble bombs, give refuge to the 1,000's and 1,000's of foot soldiers looking for R & R before continuing their murderous rampage.

give your head a shake,

read th ekoran (or whatever u like to spell it:)

if u will not submit, or bow to the east (mecca) you are dead meat, BBQ'd, sliced'diced, beheaded, hung, stoned, crucified, fried, whatever is the method of killing today

IMHO

read the life of mo' you will really like the part where he fly's on his winged creature to mecca'

and remember,

IS say they will take rome, and they have 100's of foot soldiers there already, along with every capital in most of the world,

apologists like u make me smile, you don't know what is coming

Absolute nonsense.

Your hate is consuming you.

I see that your own hate didn't stop you from cherry-picking passages from a book that NO ONE has followed for 2,000 years and attributed it to Christianity. Christianity superseded the Old Testament Bible with new, peaceful rules. Now name a religion that uses the Old Testament Bible as their guide! You can't. Even the Jews, of which the Old Testament is their history, don't use that book as a guide to living/worshiping; they follow the Torah. The Koran, on the other hand is the 'Bible' of Muslims and there is no other. We live in an age where you don't have to stay ignorant of the teachings of the Koran unless you willfully prefer to argue from ignorance. Many people find comfort in their ignorance as the truth is sometimes ugly.

Your hate is consuming you.

Edited March 3, 2015 by rametindallas

[Bluespunk]

the people of the south were Buddhist a 1,000 years before mo started his cult.

the arabs were pagan a 1,000 years plus later, they worshiped many gods/idols, allah the moon god suited mo' and so mote it be.

allah is NOT the GOD of CHRISTIANS and JEWS.

allah, moon god, they worship stars and moon cycles.

and really like to kill people.

the mosque is a good place to store weapons of destruction, assemble bombs, give refuge to the 1,000's and 1,000's of foot soldiers looking for R & R before continuing their murderous rampage.

give your head a shake,

read th ekoran (or whatever u like to spell it:)

if u will not submit, or bow to the east (mecca) you are dead meat, BBQ'd, sliced'diced, beheaded, hung, stoned, crucified, fried, whatever is the method of killing today

IMHO

read the life of mo' you will really like the part where he fly's on his winged creature to mecca'

and remember,

IS say they will take rome, and they have 100's of foot soldiers there already, along with every capital in most of the world,

apologists like u make me smile, you don't know what is coming

Absolute nonsense.

Your hate is consuming you.

I see that your own hate didn't stop you from cherry-picking passages from a book that NO ONE has followed for 2,000 years and attributed it to Christianity. Christianity superseded the Old Testament Bible with new, peaceful rules. Now name a religion that uses the Old Testament Bible as their guide! You can't. Even the Jews, of which the Old Testament is their history, don't use that book as a guide to living/worshiping; they follow the Torah. The Koran, on the other hand is the 'Bible' of Muslims and there is no other. We live in an age where you don't have to stay ignorant of the teachings of the Koran unless you willfully prefer to argue from ignorance. Many people find comfort in their ignorance as the truth is sometimes ugly.

Your hate is consuming you.

Not at all.

The bible quotes were the first ones I looked up, there are others. I have already said that christians realize they are nonsense and don't follow such BS. I quoted them in response to a post which exhibited ignorance about the teachings of the Koran. And as it turned out the bible in its entirety.

Yes there is hate in the koran as there is in the bible. Most followers of both faiths know which to follow and which to ignore. Both faiths have zealots who cannot or will not do so.

I have no hate for any faith, I follow none myself but have no problem with those who do.

I do however have a problem with those who preach hate and intolerance, whether in the pulpit or on a forum such as this or anywhere for that matter. Is that hate, not sure.

I certainly do despise those who advocate intolerance though.

Just because I disagree with you that does not mean I argue from ignorance. I disagree with you on this issue, you disagree with me, boo

hoo, that's life.

However I do not accuse you of ignorance, willful or otherwise. I would appreciate the same courtesy.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Bluespunk

[rametindallas]

Absolute nonsense.

Your hate is consuming you.

I see that your own hate didn't stop you from cherry-picking passages from a book that NO ONE has followed for 2,000 years and attributed it to Christianity. Christianity superseded the Old Testament Bible with new, peaceful rules. Now name a religion that uses the Old Testament Bible as their guide! You can't. Even the Jews, of which the Old Testament is their history, don't use that book as a guide to living/worshiping; they follow the Torah. The Koran, on the other hand is the 'Bible' of Muslims and there is no other. We live in an age where you don't have to stay ignorant of the teachings of the Koran unless you willfully prefer to argue from ignorance. Many people find comfort in their ignorance as the truth is sometimes ugly.

Your hate is consuming you.

Not at all.

The bible quotes were the first ones I looked up, there are others. I have already said that christians realize they are nonsense and don't follow such BS. I quoted them in response to a post which exhibited ignorance about the teachings of the Koran. And as it turned out the bible in its entirety.

Yes there is hate in the koran as there is in the bible. Most followers of both faiths know which to follow and which to ignore. Both faiths have zealots who cannot or will not do so.

I have no hate for any faith, I follow none myself but have no problem with those who do.

I do however have a problem with those who preach hate and intolerance, whether in the pulpit or on a forum such as this or anywhere for that matter. Is that hate, not sure.

I certainly do despise those who advocate intolerance though.

Just because I disagree with you that does not mean I argue from ignorance. I disagree with you on this issue, you disagree with me, boo

hoo, that's life.

However I do not accuse you of ignorance, willful or otherwise. I would appreciate the same courtesy.

The bible quotes were the first ones I looked up, there are others.

Keep digging that hole. There are two Bibles. The Old and New. The Old is merely a history of how things were before Christianity came into being. You keep quoting from the Old as if it were interchangeable with the New. They are not. You keep using the wrong (superseded) Bible to get your quotes from; that is dishonest.

I have already said that christians realize they are nonsense and don't follow such BS

So why do you keep quoting from it as if that is the beliefs of Christians?

Christians don't think the Old Testament is nonsense. The Old Testament is kept around as a history to show that prophesy was fulfilled to to show the contrast between the old way of worshiping God and the new way Jesus taught.

Yes there is hate in the koran as there is in the bible

There are two Bibles and no religion follows the old one. You are being dishonest when you say there is hate in the Bible as though there was no distinction between Old and New Testaments and other readers who don't know better may believe you when you say Christians teach hate. Please quote anything in the Christian New Testament Bible that condones, much less encourages, hate or violence. If you can't, you need to stop comparing the Christian Bible as equal to the Muslim Koran. Find another religion in the world that teaches hate, violence, and intolerance similar to that taught in the Koran. You can't.

Just because I disagree with you that does not mean I argue from ignorance.

Your ignorance is displayed when you attribute Old Testament Bible beliefs to Christians who only use the New Testament Bible as a guide. There is a difference.

However I do not accuse you of ignorance, willful or otherwise. I would appreciate the same courtesy.

You show willful ignorance when you refuse to acknowledge the difference between the Old Testament Bible, which no one follows, and the New Testament Bible the Christians take their faith from. I have pointed that out to you already. You are bothered by my pointing out your ignorant statements yet you have no problem accusing oby of hate. Double standards, much?

I have no hate for any faith, I follow none myself but have no problem with those who do.

For someone who professes neutrality, you sure don't mind making up trash about the Christian faith to defend the Muslim faith. Besides, what do verses from the Old Testament Bible that no one follows have to do with the teachings in the Koran? Sounds like, "But, but, but, Suthep", to me. Read the Christian Bible (New Testament Bible) and then read the Koran (I have read both) and then tell me you have no problem with those who want to follow the rules of the Koran. I've studied the life and teachings of Lord Buddha, also, and there is not even one phrase of violence in all his teaching. I will defend every religion except that of the Mohammedans' as their religion preaches hate, intolerance, and violence. Any way that people can find to make themselves better humans to each other and the Earth should be supported. Islam never teaches harmony with those who don't agree with them 100%, and that's a fact.

The people of Nan have every right to worry.

[chooka]

Can't be bothered to wade through 10 miles of racist comments.

The pasty racist beerbelly dropout boys are having a field day with this one, I'm sure.

Islam is a cult, not a race of people so therefore your remark about racism doesn't apply. A lot of people pull the racist card where it doesn't apply so don't feel to bad.

[simple1]

<snip>

The reality is that wherever there is a mosque, one finds radicalization and the preaching of hatred and violence.. When's the last time a Thai buddhist suicide bomber ran into a Temple? Sadly it is a common occurrence in the mosques of pakistan and Iraq. Considering the influence of the Saudi imams and the like, I sympathize with the Than non muslims. I can handle the Thai buddhists and their mumbo jumbo as they don't want to force my conversion or make me obey their religious edicts. Unfortunately, wherever there are muslims in number, they insist that everything be done in accordance with muslim practices.

Phooie I say.

Plenty of Thai Muslims and mosques in East Pattaya. I lived amongst the Muslim community for a total of four years and never picked up on violence and hatred towards non Muslims. Nor talking with other Westerners living in the area did I get any negative feedback concerning interactions with the large local Muslim community.

No attempts at converstion from the Muslim community, but regularly Christian sects would go house to house to try and convert Muslims - no violent reactions and so on.

The level of venom expressed in this forum against the general Thai Muslim community is not justified.

I personally express no level of venom and I certainly don't pick on Thai followers of Islam , the 'religion of peace?'. I do not trust the followers of Islam in general, unless the extremists wear a label, how do I know if one of the members of this 'religion' is not going to kill me in an act of self destruction as a religious act. I am basically fearful, mainly because our weak western PC governments and liberal societies do not stand up and say to the followers of Islam 'if you don't like our societies, that you joined by your own choice, go to a country where the society fits your criteria'. DO NOT TRY and impose your needs and likes upon us, we don't want them.

In Australia there is a female moslem lawyer who objects to a T shirt, with an Australian Flag and a slogan 'If you don't love it, leave'. She thinks it is aimed at immigrants, it is aimed at people who came to Australia, asked for citizenship and now disrespect the norms of the country they chose to join and wish to change them because they upset their religious feelings. I have not read of any Chinese,Japanese, Italian, German etc immigrants complaining about this, only a follower of Islam. Free speech, unless I feel it upsets my very sensative feelings, b*ll*cks. Does that mean that you are a Moslem first and an Australian second. Where does your loyalty lie, you chose to become Australian, so be Australian, otherwise FO.

Thai Muslims are not recent immigrants, mostly their roots in Thailand go back centuries, so your opinions on Muslim migrants in Australia are completely irrelevant to this topic

If you are interested to know the history of Islam in Thailand, as a start, go to the URL below.

http://www.slideshare.net/ikhwanng/history-and-politics-of-the-muslims-in-thailand

BTW I am not aware of any generalised threats made against Westeners by Thai Muslims; are you?

Edited March 3, 2015 by simple1

[aussieinthailand]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"differences in lifestyle and culture" between Buddhists and Muslims, and possible "unrest and violence" that could follow the construction of the mosque."

On whose part?

The Muslims just want a place to pray.

What's wrong with that?

Just a matter of justification, there are 100s of 1000s of Christians, Buddhists, Hindus living in the Middle east for work and living, will they allow them build Churches and Temples there ?

If they are talking about religious freedom, they should consider in every country, not just enforce in the secular countries.

Completely agree with you.

Religious bigotry and intolerance is unacceptable anywhere.

No one has the right to dictate to another what faith, if any, they follow nor impede anyone's ability to follow the faith of their choice.

Ye'p agree, freedom of choice in your faith.

Unfortunately there are so many of that faith that think all the world must be Muslim, and even in the Quran it say's a Muslim can lie to a non Muslim and it's not a sin, they even have a special word for it, and the world will be at peace when all the people are Muslim, I'm not making this up guy's, it's a fact.

[Bluespunk]

Absolute nonsense.

Your hate is consuming you.

I see that your own hate didn't stop you from cherry-picking passages from a book that NO ONE has followed for 2,000 years and attributed it to Christianity. Christianity superseded the Old Testament Bible with new, peaceful rules. Now name a religion that uses the Old Testament Bible as their guide! You can't. Even the Jews, of which the Old Testament is their history, don't use that book as a guide to living/worshiping; they follow the Torah. The Koran, on the other hand is the 'Bible' of Muslims and there is no other. We live in an age where you don't have to stay ignorant of the teachings of the Koran unless you willfully prefer to argue from ignorance. Many people find comfort in their ignorance as the truth is sometimes ugly.

Your hate is consuming you.

Not at all.

The bible quotes were the first ones I looked up, there are others. I have already said that christians realize they are nonsense and don't follow such BS. I quoted them in response to a post which exhibited ignorance about the teachings of the Koran. And as it turned out the bible in its entirety.

Yes there is hate in the koran as there is in the bible. Most followers of both faiths know which to follow and which to ignore. Both faiths have zealots who cannot or will not do so.

I have no hate for any faith, I follow none myself but have no problem with those who do.

I do however have a problem with those who preach hate and intolerance, whether in the pulpit or on a forum such as this or anywhere for that matter. Is that hate, not sure.

I certainly do despise those who advocate intolerance though.

Just because I disagree with you that does not mean I argue from ignorance. I disagree with you on this issue, you disagree with me, boo

hoo, that's life.

However I do not accuse you of ignorance, willful or otherwise. I would appreciate the same courtesy.

The bible quotes were the first ones I looked up, there are others.

Keep digging that hole. There are two Bibles. The Old and New. The Old is merely a history of how things were before Christianity came into being. You keep quoting from the Old as if it were interchangeable with the New. They are not. You keep using the wrong (superseded) Bible to get your quotes from; that is dishonest.

I have already said that christians realize they are nonsense and don't follow such BS

So why do you keep quoting from it as if that is the beliefs of Christians?

Christians don't think the Old Testament is nonsense. The Old Testament is kept around as a history to show that prophesy was fulfilled to to show the contrast between the old way of worshiping God and the new way Jesus taught.

Yes there is hate in the koran as there is in the bible

There are two Bibles and no religion follows the old one. You are being dishonest when you say there is hate in the Bible as though there was no distinction between Old and New Testaments and other readers who don't know better may believe you when you say Christians teach hate. Please quote anything in the Christian New Testament Bible that condones, much less encourages, hate or violence. If you can't, you need to stop comparing the Christian Bible as equal to the Muslim Koran. Find another religion in the world that teaches hate, violence, and intolerance similar to that taught in the Koran. You can't.

Just because I disagree with you that does not mean I argue from ignorance.

Your ignorance is displayed when you attribute Old Testament Bible beliefs to Christians who only use the New Testament Bible as a guide. There is a difference.

However I do not accuse you of ignorance, willful or otherwise. I would appreciate the same courtesy.

You show willful ignorance when you refuse to acknowledge the difference between the Old Testament Bible, which no one follows, and the New Testament Bible the Christians take their faith from. I have pointed that out to you already. You are bothered by my pointing out your ignorant statements yet you have no problem accusing oby of hate. Double standards, much?

I have no hate for any faith, I follow none myself but have no problem with those who do.

For someone who professes neutrality, you sure don't mind making up trash about the Christian faith to defend the Muslim faith. Besides, what do verses from the Old Testament Bible that no one follows have to do with the teachings in the Koran? Sounds like, "But, but, but, Suthep", to me. Read the Christian Bible (New Testament Bible) and then read the Koran (I have read both) and then tell me you have no problem with those who want to follow the rules of the Koran. I've studied the life and teachings of Lord Buddha, also, and there is not even one phrase of violence in all his teaching. I will defend every religion except that of the Mohammedans' as their religion preaches hate, intolerance, and violence. Any way that people can find to make themselves better humans to each other and the Earth should be supported. Islam never teaches harmony with those who don't agree with them 100%, and that's a fact.

The people of Nan have every right to worry.

A: the people if nan do not have anything to fear but their own prejudices.

B: no one follows the Old Testament? Hmm, haven't been to church since I realised there is no god, but they were pretty keen on the 10 commandments and other aspects of it. Maybe they were just cherry picking, eh.

C: I am neither defending Islam or trashing Christianity. I am an atheist and favour neither. However I understand others have the right to follow their faith free from the prejudicial intolerances of bigots. The O.T. quotes I used (still used by homophobic Christians to justify their hate) were done so to expose a particular train if thought for what it was. Prejudice.

i did not say the bible encourages Christians to hate I nearly used a passage that exposed the prejudicial BS of a poster.

A fact I have now repeated to you, as you seem to have wilfully ignored or were you just being dishonest as it didn't fit in with the line you have chosen to follow in my use of it?

In addition I used the quotes once. That is hardly "keep using" it's once. Singular. Not more than one.

D: I didn't make them up any trash about christianity, the passages are there in the apparently "superseded" aspect of the book.

E: I trust Islamic scholars and their faith based centres of learning before I do your "interpretation" of the Koran.

F: as for Buddhists teachings on violence. Would carry a lot more weight with me if their Burmese and Sri Lankan followers adhered to them.

G: you'll defend all faiths except one? My, but that's mighty nice of you.

H: suthep?

Edited March 4, 2015 by Bluespunk

[Rykbanlor]

As someone said earlier, I'm not wading through 5 pages of bigotry. I did however see this quaint arguement roled out a few times, which I've heard people in the UK use:

The day they let us build churches in the middle east then they can have mosques bla bla bla.

The UK and Thailand both claim to offer religious freedom, places like Saudi don't claim to do so, don't compare these mismatched values.

[John1012]

'Thai Muslims are not recent immigrants, mostly their roots in Thailand go back centuries, so your opinions on Muslim migrants in Australia are completely irrelevant to this topic

BTW I am not aware of any generalised threats made against Westeners by Thai Muslims; are you?'

Simple1?

You are correct, my opinions of Muslim migrants in Australia are not specifically relevent to this current topic. I included this example of Muslim sensativety. The T shirt was only saying that if you do not love Australia, leave. I can only assume from the reaction that a lot of people do not love Australia, but like being parasites on Australian society. This also applies to most European countries that have been overrun by Islamic migrants who will not assimulate into their chosen countrys societies, but now wish to try and dominate the native culture with their own unwanted Sharia rules. If in Thailand Islam is allowed to expand then a similar situation that has occured in Western Europe will occur in Thailand. 25 years ago there were no generalised threats to native europeans from the followers of Islam. There were no 'NO GO' areas that could not be policed according to national law. We felt NO threat from the followers of Islam. I did not think twice about Islam and death. NOW I DO. I do not want Australia to follow Western Europe down the path of appeasement and political correctness. Neither do I want Thailand, or any non Muslim country to allow creation of fertile societies that in a few years could follow the path of Islam in Western Europe. Attempting to dominate the native society, and destroy cultures that do not adhere to the teachings of Mo.

[John1012]

'Thai Muslims are not recent immigrants, mostly their roots in Thailand go back centuries, so your opinions on Muslim migrants in Australia are completely irrelevant to this topic

BTW I am not aware of any generalised threats made against Westeners by Thai Muslims; are you?'

dear sir, the muslims planting bombs, killing teachers, destroying infrastructure are almost certainly malay wahabbi muslim.

the Thai Constitution gives Thai Muslims the most liberal Rights of any non muslim country in the world.

further they almost certainly cross the border from mayasia.

their bombs do not differentiate between buddhist, farang, Muslim, christian or jew.

?do u think the iranians in bkk were only trying to killl thai buddhists?

westeners are at the top of the list for terrorism

terrorists seek terror, they care not who they kill and maim, imho

Dear OBY, I quoted an excerpt from a post by Simple1. I agree entirely with your comments. I do not hate the followers of Islam, I hate their disgusting lack of courage in not eradicating the cancer that is permeating their religion and so making them the pariahs of the world by association.

Edited March 4, 2015 by John1012

[simple1]

Thai Muslims are not recent immigrants, mostly their roots in Thailand go back centuries, so your opinions on Muslim migrants in Australia are completely irrelevant to this topic

If you are interested to know the history of Islam in Thailand, as a start, go to the URL below.

http://www.slideshare.net/ikhwanng/history-and-politics-of-the-muslims-in-thailand

BTW I am not aware of any generalised threats made against Westeners by Thai Muslims; are you?

ikhwanng/ history-and-politics-of-the-muslims-in-thailand second chapter "characteristics of muslims in thai society"

kachk in thai means "stranger, outsider,visitor or guest"

the terms "thai islam or thai muslim were created during the Pibulsongkhum Government in the early 1940's"

your link to a blog by created by a malay muslim convert ikwan ng

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Hidden Writer by Ikhwan Ng

“Your father and I are feeling very upset with you, how dare you publish your conversion to Islam into magazine? Do you ever realize that the whole world will be laughing at us?” My mother spoke to me via mobile phone.

“Stop writing any article at internet anymore, your father open the blog link based on magazine, he feels more stressed with everything you have done. You just convert into Islam, how much do you really understand about that religion?”

oh BTW, every muslim bomb in thailand is meant to kill *buddist, farang,muslim* no difference,

google iranian bombers in bkk

muslim apologists make me smile, better learn some handy arabic, like beg, please,

glorious islam, cult of darkness and submission

Posts removed to enable reply.

The link provided above is to a paper released by Thammasat University. I do not comprehend the reasoning for the relatively minor point you've raised in the context of the centuries of Islamic history in Thailand. However an alternate brief paper on the history of Islam in Thailand is available at

http://www.academia.edu/1474667/Islam_and_Muslims_in_Thailand

Let's not forget that under Islamic jurisprudence Thailand is defined as “Dar al-Islam, an abode of peace”

The failed planned attack by the Iranians was specifically targeted at Israeli diplomats. Please point to any threat or attack that has been specifically directed at Westerners by Thai Muslims or if you prefer Malay Thais.

As a reminder take a look at the Thai government summary of relations with Muslims / Islam.

http://www.thaiembassy.org/riyadh/th/organize/29025-Muslim-in-Thailand.html

[rametindallas]

Not at all.

The bible quotes were the first ones I looked up, there are others. I have already said that christians realize they are nonsense and don't follow such BS. I quoted them in response to a post which exhibited ignorance about the teachings of the Koran. And as it turned out the bible in its entirety.

Yes there is hate in the koran as there is in the bible. Most followers of both faiths know which to follow and which to ignore. Both faiths have zealots who cannot or will not do so.

I have no hate for any faith, I follow none myself but have no problem with those who do.

I do however have a problem with those who preach hate and intolerance, whether in the pulpit or on a forum such as this or anywhere for that matter. Is that hate, not sure.

I certainly do despise those who advocate intolerance though.

Just because I disagree with you that does not mean I argue from ignorance. I disagree with you on this issue, you disagree with me, boo

hoo, that's life.

However I do not accuse you of ignorance, willful or otherwise. I would appreciate the same courtesy.

The bible quotes were the first ones I looked up, there are others.

Keep digging that hole. There are two Bibles. The Old and New. The Old is merely a history of how things were before Christianity came into being. You keep quoting from the Old as if it were interchangeable with the New. They are not. You keep using the wrong (superseded) Bible to get your quotes from; that is dishonest.

I have already said that christians realize they are nonsense and don't follow such BS

So why do you keep quoting from it as if that is the beliefs of Christians?

Christians don't think the Old Testament is nonsense. The Old Testament is kept around as a history to show that prophesy was fulfilled to to show the contrast between the old way of worshiping God and the new way Jesus taught.

Yes there is hate in the koran as there is in the bible

There are two Bibles and no religion follows the old one. You are being dishonest when you say there is hate in the Bible as though there was no distinction between Old and New Testaments and other readers who don't know better may believe you when you say Christians teach hate. Please quote anything in the Christian New Testament Bible that condones, much less encourages, hate or violence. If you can't, you need to stop comparing the Christian Bible as equal to the Muslim Koran. Find another religion in the world that teaches hate, violence, and intolerance similar to that taught in the Koran. You can't.

Just because I disagree with you that does not mean I argue from ignorance.

Your ignorance is displayed when you attribute Old Testament Bible beliefs to Christians who only use the New Testament Bible as a guide. There is a difference.

However I do not accuse you of ignorance, willful or otherwise. I would appreciate the same courtesy.

You show willful ignorance when you refuse to acknowledge the difference between the Old Testament Bible, which no one follows, and the New Testament Bible the Christians take their faith from. I have pointed that out to you already. You are bothered by my pointing out your ignorant statements yet you have no problem accusing oby of hate. Double standards, much?

I have no hate for any faith, I follow none myself but have no problem with those who do.

For someone who professes neutrality, you sure don't mind making up trash about the Christian faith to defend the Muslim faith. Besides, what do verses from the Old Testament Bible that no one follows have to do with the teachings in the Koran? Sounds like, "But, but, but, Suthep", to me. Read the Christian Bible (New Testament Bible) and then read the Koran (I have read both) and then tell me you have no problem with those who want to follow the rules of the Koran. I've studied the life and teachings of Lord Buddha, also, and there is not even one phrase of violence in all his teaching. I will defend every religion except that of the Mohammedans' as their religion preaches hate, intolerance, and violence. Any way that people can find to make themselves better humans to each other and the Earth should be supported. Islam never teaches harmony with those who don't agree with them 100%, and that's a fact.

The people of Nan have every right to worry.

A: the people if nan do not have anything to fear but their own prejudices.

B: no one follows the Old Testament? Hmm, haven't been to church since I realised there is no god, but they were pretty keen on the 10 commandments and other aspects of it. Maybe they were just cherry picking, eh.

C: I am neither defending Islam or trashing Christianity. I am an atheist and favour neither. However I understand others have the right to follow their faith free from the prejudicial intolerances of bigots. The O.T. quotes I used (still used by homophobic Christians to justify their hate) were done so to expose a particular train if thought for what it was. Prejudice.

i did not say the bible encourages Christians to hate I nearly used a passage that exposed the prejudicial BS of a poster.

A fact I have now repeated to you, as you seem to have wilfully ignored or were you just being dishonest as it didn't fit in with the line you have chosen to follow in my use of it?

In addition I used the quotes once. That is hardly "keep using" it's once. Singular. Not more than one.

D: I didn't make them up any trash about christianity, the passages are there in the apparently "superseded" aspect of the book.

E: I trust Islamic scholars and their faith based centres of learning before I do your "interpretation" of the Koran.

F: as for Buddhists teachings on violence. Would carry a lot more weight with me if their Burmese and Sri Lankan followers adhered to them.

G: you'll defend all faiths except one? My, but that's mighty nice of you.

H: suthep?

I trust Islamic scholars and their faith based centres of learning before I do your "interpretation" of the Koran.

How long have you been attending Muslim religious school that you know all about the faith? I daresay that one could go to the Mosque their whole life and never hear about some parts of the Koran. There are some religious teachers who are embarrassed at the commands to kill infidels, apostates, and those who would insult Mohammad and therefore, gloss over that part of the Koran. Try reading what true believers read, which is ALL of the Koran. True believers of any faith do not pick and choose the parts that fit into their lives but mold their lives to fit the teaching. I explained why I can't support the Mohammedans but you chose to ignore that.

suthep?

Yeah, in your attempt to distract from the evil that is Islam, you bring up the supposed evil of another religion (quotes of violence from the Old Testament Bible). It is the same with Red Shirt defenders who say that Suthep is corrupt, has ordered murder, etc. and Thaksin and the UDD are no worse. "But, but, but, Suthep".

[simple1]

'Thai Muslims are not recent immigrants, mostly their roots in Thailand go back centuries, so your opinions on Muslim migrants in Australia are completely irrelevant to this topic

BTW I am not aware of any generalised threats made against Westeners by Thai Muslims; are you?'

Simple1?

You are correct, my opinions of Muslim migrants in Australia are not specifically relevent to this current topic. I included this example of Muslim sensativety. The T shirt was only saying that if you do not love Australia, leave. I can only assume from the reaction that a lot of people do not love Australia, but like being parasites on Australian society. This also applies to most European countries that have been overrun by Islamic migrants who will not assimulate into their chosen countrys societies, but now wish to try and dominate the native culture with their own unwanted Sharia rules. If in Thailand Islam is allowed to expand then a similar situation that has occured in Western Europe will occur in Thailand. 25 years ago there were no generalised threats to native europeans from the followers of Islam. There were no 'NO GO' areas that could not be policed according to national law. We felt NO threat from the followers of Islam. I did not think twice about Islam and death. NOW I DO. I do not want Australia to follow Western Europe down the path of appeasement and political correctness. Neither do I want Thailand, or any non Muslim country to allow creation of fertile societies that in a few years could follow the path of Islam in Western Europe. Attempting to dominate the native society, and destroy cultures that do not adhere to the teachings of Mo.

Have no fear. Oz will not go down the path of enabling radical Islam, nor will Thailand. Sharia Civil law has been legally recognised in majority Muslim provinces of Thailand since 1948. Don't believe there is any real support for Sharia Criminal Law in Thailand, there again Thailand would not support such a move. There is no legal recognition of Sharia Civil Law in Oz, such as notion has been rejected by Federal government and will continue to do so.

Although many create hysteria on this subject, IMO Islam will not 'take over' Thailand, Oz or indeed Europe

[Bluespunk]

Not at all.

The bible quotes were the first ones I looked up, there are others. I have already said that christians realize they are nonsense and don't follow such BS. I quoted them in response to a post which exhibited ignorance about the teachings of the Koran. And as it turned out the bible in its entirety.

Yes there is hate in the koran as there is in the bible. Most followers of both faiths know which to follow and which to ignore. Both faiths have zealots who cannot or will not do so.

I have no hate for any faith, I follow none myself but have no problem with those who do.

I do however have a problem with those who preach hate and intolerance, whether in the pulpit or on a forum such as this or anywhere for that matter. Is that hate, not sure.

I certainly do despise those who advocate intolerance though.

Just because I disagree with you that does not mean I argue from ignorance. I disagree with you on this issue, you disagree with me, boo

hoo, that's life.

However I do not accuse you of ignorance, willful or otherwise. I would appreciate the same courtesy.

The bible quotes were the first ones I looked up, there are others.

Keep digging that hole. There are two Bibles. The Old and New. The Old is merely a history of how things were before Christianity came into being. You keep quoting from the Old as if it were interchangeable with the New. They are not. You keep using the wrong (superseded) Bible to get your quotes from; that is dishonest.

I have already said that christians realize they are nonsense and don't follow such BS

So why do you keep quoting from it as if that is the beliefs of Christians?

Christians don't think the Old Testament is nonsense. The Old Testament is kept around as a history to show that prophesy was fulfilled to to show the contrast between the old way of worshiping God and the new way Jesus taught.

Yes there is hate in the koran as there is in the bible

There are two Bibles and no religion follows the old one. You are being dishonest when you say there is hate in the Bible as though there was no distinction between Old and New Testaments and other readers who don't know better may believe you when you say Christians teach hate. Please quote anything in the Christian New Testament Bible that condones, much less encourages, hate or violence. If you can't, you need to stop comparing the Christian Bible as equal to the Muslim Koran. Find another religion in the world that teaches hate, violence, and intolerance similar to that taught in the Koran. You can't.

Just because I disagree with you that does not mean I argue from ignorance.

Your ignorance is displayed when you attribute Old Testament Bible beliefs to Christians who only use the New Testament Bible as a guide. There is a difference.

However I do not accuse you of ignorance, willful or otherwise. I would appreciate the same courtesy.

You show willful ignorance when you refuse to acknowledge the difference between the Old Testament Bible, which no one follows, and the New Testament Bible the Christians take their faith from. I have pointed that out to you already. You are bothered by my pointing out your ignorant statements yet you have no problem accusing oby of hate. Double standards, much?

I have no hate for any faith, I follow none myself but have no problem with those who do.

For someone who professes neutrality, you sure don't mind making up trash about the Christian faith to defend the Muslim faith. Besides, what do verses from the Old Testament Bible that no one follows have to do with the teachings in the Koran? Sounds like, "But, but, but, Suthep", to me. Read the Christian Bible (New Testament Bible) and then read the Koran (I have read both) and then tell me you have no problem with those who want to follow the rules of the Koran. I've studied the life and teachings of Lord Buddha, also, and there is not even one phrase of violence in all his teaching. I will defend every religion except that of the Mohammedans' as their religion preaches hate, intolerance, and violence. Any way that people can find to make themselves better humans to each other and the Earth should be supported. Islam never teaches harmony with those who don't agree with them 100%, and that's a fact.

The people of Nan have every right to worry.

A: the people if nan do not have anything to fear but their own prejudices.

B: no one follows the Old Testament? Hmm, haven't been to church since I realised there is no god, but they were pretty keen on the 10 commandments and other aspects of it. Maybe they were just cherry picking, eh.

C: I am neither defending Islam or trashing Christianity. I am an atheist and favour neither. However I understand others have the right to follow their faith free from the prejudicial intolerances of bigots. The O.T. quotes I used (still used by homophobic Christians to justify their hate) were done so to expose a particular train if thought for what it was. Prejudice.

i did not say the bible encourages Christians to hate I nearly used a passage that exposed the prejudicial BS of a poster.

A fact I have now repeated to you, as you seem to have wilfully ignored or were you just being dishonest as it didn't fit in with the line you have chosen to follow in my use of it?

In addition I used the quotes once. That is hardly "keep using" it's once. Singular. Not more than one.

D: I didn't make them up any trash about christianity, the passages are there in the apparently "superseded" aspect of the book.

E: I trust Islamic scholars and their faith based centres of learning before I do your "interpretation" of the Koran.

F: as for Buddhists teachings on violence. Would carry a lot more weight with me if their Burmese and Sri Lankan followers adhered to them.

G: you'll defend all faiths except one? My, but that's mighty nice of you.

H: suthep?

I trust Islamic scholars and their faith based centres of learning before I do your "interpretation" of the Koran.

How long have you been attending Muslim religious school that you know all about the faith? I daresay that one could go to the Mosque their whole life and never hear about some parts of the Koran. There are some religious teachers who are embarrassed at the commands to kill infidels, apostates, and those who would insult Mohammad and therefore, gloss over that part of the Koran. Try reading what true believers read, which is ALL of the Koran. True believers of any faith do not pick and choose the parts that fit into their lives but mold their lives to fit the teaching. I explained why I can't support the Mohammedans but you chose to ignore that.

suthep?

Yeah, in your attempt to distract from the evil that is Islam, you bring up the supposed evil of another religion (quotes of violence from the Old Testament Bible). It is the same with Red Shirt defenders who say that Suthep is corrupt, has ordered murder, etc. and Thaksin and the UDD are no worse. "But, but, but, Suthep".

Same old nonsense you spout about Islam is all over this thread.

No doubt prejudiced members of other faiths across the world are saying similar things about Hindus/Christians/Buddhists/Sikhs/atheists.

Things they all have in common?

They are all allowing fear, loathing and prejudice cloud their "thinking".

They all judge every member of a faith because of the terrorist actions of a minority who abuse their faith and murder in the name of their god of choice.

They are all contributing to further misunderstanding, intolerance and hate.

The terrorists best propaganda tool is the climate of fear and loathing such "thinking creates.

Edit: for the third time my bible quotes (some still used by bigots) were to counter the bigoted nonsense of another poster. At no point did I say Christianity was evil. Go back and read the post and the context in which I used those quotes.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Bluespunk

[AyG]

Those people in Nan don't want expansion of Islam into their community because they have seen examples of what happens then. Muslims do not assimilate, they take over.

Except those Moslems are already in their community, and they are assimilated and there is no expansion.

All they want is a place of worship so they don't have to make a 260 km round trip when they want to attend Friday prayers which is a religious obligation. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and replies. Posts attempting to deflect the topic to the UK/Europe have been removed. Let's keep the discussion to the protest of the mosque construction in Nan, which is in Thailand.

[simple1]

i would like to question is the mosque financed by the saudi government or the King of Thailand.

almost every country in the world, mosques built in the last 20 years have been at least partially financed by saudi.

Inflammatory posts and replies. Posts attempting to deflect the topic to the UK/Europe have been removed. Let's keep the discussion to the protest of the mosque construction in Nan, which is in Thailand.

Cannot answer specifics of funding assistance by Saudis for the proposed mosque. However, as an example, I do know that a new mosque built in East Pattaya was 50% funded by the local community and 50% from the Thai government. Thai government has a department that assists with funding building new mosques and maintenance of existing buildings. <snip>

Some more info...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Thailand

Edited March 4, 2015 by Jai Dee
comment regarding Thai royalty deleted as per forum rules

[DM07]

Those people in Nan don't want expansion of Islam into their community because they have seen examples of what happens then. Muslims do not assimilate, they take over.

Except those Moslems are already in their community, and they are assimilated and there is no expansion.

All they want is a place of worship so they don't have to make a 260 km round trip when they want to attend Friday prayers which is a religious obligation. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

...and we are still talking about Muslims and not the Borg!

The fearmongering, that is going on here is absolutely stunning, as is the taring with one large brush!

[BlackJack]

"differences in lifestyle and culture" between Buddhists and Muslims, and possible "unrest and violence" that could follow the construction of the mosque."

On whose part?

The Muslims just want a place to pray.

What's wrong with that?

so a bar starts up next door as people just want a place to drink

and

a pork spare ribs place the other side of the mosque as people just want a place to eat

is OK then or is this a one way street

[webfact]

Nan Governor Suggests Compromise for Anti-Mosque Controversy
By Khaosod English


The governor of Nan province, Ukrit Puengsopha, 3 March 2015.

NAN — The governor of Nan province has suggested the local Muslim community strike a compromise with Buddhists who have publicly opposed their plan to build a mosque in the province.

The governor, Ukrit Puengsopha, said that instead of constructing a permanent mosque, local Muslims can start by building a balasah, which is a smaller, temporary place of worship. The community can then upgrade the balasah to a larger mosque when there are more Muslims in the region, Ukrit said.

"When there is a plan to build a Buddhist temple, they start by building a monks' residence first. If the community sees benefits from it and accepts it, they develop it into a monastery. After that, if the community wants, and there is land, the residents will request to upgrade it into a temple," Ukrit said. "The same goes for a mosque. They can start with balasah. If there are more Muslims, and if the neighboring society becomes more accepting, it can eventually become a mosque."

The governor suggested the compromise at yesterday's meeting between local officials, military officers, representatives from the Muslim community, and monks who organized the recent anti-mosque protest.

Full story: http://www.khaosodenglish.com/detail.php?newsid=1425463291


-- Khaosod English 2015-03-04

[Bluespunk]

"differences in lifestyle and culture" between Buddhists and Muslims, and possible "unrest and violence" that could follow the construction of the mosque."

On whose part?

The Muslims just want a place to pray.

What's wrong with that?

so a bar starts up next door as people just want a place to drink

and

a pork spare ribs place the other side of the mosque as people just want a place to eat

is OK then or is this a one way street

Couldn't care less about what happens next to the mosque. That would be the owner of the land's choice.

[FangFerang]

I think the governor is offering a good compromise...but that caveat....the locals become more accepting runs contrary to every Thai Constitution since 1990.

[bheard]

Religions.

Seems to me, all intolerance and hate comes their archaic practices.

They are all anachronisms.

HEAR HEAR!

Oh, and 'noise polution' - huh? In Thailand? phhhhhtttt. What a joke!

[Tomtomtom69]

I consider myself to be quite tolerant but I can't help but feel like these protestors have got a point. Nan province is a Buddhist province in a very Buddhist part of the country. While on the one hand, you have Muslims apparently pushing Buddhists out of the three southernmost provinces of Thailand, on the other hand, an increase in Muslims in a traditionally very Buddhist or non-Muslim part of the country (the north and north-east) can have the potential to cause social unrest and conflict. One need look no further than neighboring Myanmar for examples on that.

Sectarian violence over there has led to rioting, deaths and burning down of infrastructure including mosques and while I abhor extremism, irrespective of who orchestrates it, it seems clear that humanity, especially in this part of the world where people are not so used to living amongst people of different races, faiths etc. like we are in the west it does have the potential for conflict. Of course some parts of this region have had long periods of inter-faith communities, but that doesn't mean that they always get along with each other. Malaysia is a good example of that.

I was just in Myanmar in January and early February and happened to travel through both Meiktila and Lashio on my way to Mu-se on the Chinese border, two towns affected by separatist violence back in 2013. I first passed by both towns in that year on a previous trip to the Chinese border town of Mu-se. I didn't enter Meiktila in 2013 as I travelled on the Yangon-Mandalay expressway, which bypasses town and only stopped at the Meiktila rest stop along the highway so didn't notice anything untoward at the time. Lashio I did pass through and apparently it was only 3 weeks later that the violence there erupted. Returning now, I passed through both towns and noticed that the main mosque in Meiktila, which appears to have been the site of the main unrest was locked up but otherwise things are back to normal. BUT it is noticeable that the town has a very strong Buddhist character and like in Lashio back in 2013, where my drivers did not want to eat a Muslim restaurant we passed by, the Buddhists in town and throughout much of the country feel like they can't get along with Muslims. That may be sad, but unfortunately in some societies they feel segregating communities by ethnicity and/or religion allows society to get by more peacefully.

It is up to the Nan residents to decide how they want to proceed on this matter, but I do hope there won't be any bloodshed. The fact is while all appears well outside the three southernmost border provinces, I wouldn't be surprised if tensions boil over at some point as there is always that possibility, not just in Myanmar but also in the rest of Thailand too. Different religions, different cultures and values. It's not always easy to get along. Our western concepts of multiculturalism and equal respect for everyone is not necessarily compatible with this part of the world. It's just the way it is, so we should try to understand these Nan residents' point of view first, before we start spouting views like: "oh, how racist or discriminatory they are", well it's much worse in some Muslim countries, which don't allow the construction of any non-Muslim places of worship.

[Tomtomtom69]

"differences in lifestyle and culture" between Buddhists and Muslims, and possible "unrest and violence" that could follow the construction of the mosque."

On whose part?

The Muslims just want a place to pray.

What's wrong with that?

so a bar starts up next door as people just want a place to drink

and

a pork spare ribs place the other side of the mosque as people just want a place to eat

is OK then or is this a one way street

Couldn't care less about what happens next to the mosque. That would be the owner of the land's choice.

That's the thing, there could be conflict as a result of such a decision. There could be protests by the Muslim community that it's insensitive and what not to open a bar or restaurant serving pork, which is banned in Islam and then the local Buddhist and/or non-Muslim community in general might be up in arms about these "newcomers" telling them what to do in their own backyard.

It's very easy for you to say that everyone will just get along but I can tell you that's easier said than done. When a new group comes into an area and demands they are respected but the local community feels like they are being disadvantaged, conflict may arise.

Again I present the example of Myanmar. An apparent rape by a Muslim of a Buddhist girl in western Rakhine state caused massive outrage amongst the Buddhist community and caused many mosques, houses and businesses belonging to Muslims to be burned down. The local Rakhine community felt they were being disadvantaged by foreign aid groups bias in favour of the Rohingya or as the Burmese call them, Bengalis, which are Muslim. That and the fact that they appeared to enroach on their lands, displacing them.

We hope that will never happen here or anywhere else, BUT the potential exists. There needs to be proper consultation with all parties concerned, whether it's constructing a mosque or opening a rib bar next to a mosque or whatever. There may need to be a compromise solution or else there could be trouble.

[Tomtomtom69]

The problem is not the mosque itself but the NOISE that the Muslims make. Fancy this (and I am sure many of your have experienced it), sleeping well, then you hear this a hole at 4am calling to prayer and it just goes on all day with "Updates". Who the hell wants to listen to that. Best its not build at all but if it is they should insist that no call to prayer is allowed as is the case in the UK and Singapore - Muslims need to have consideration for people who do not share their religion and lifestyle.

You're right. I didn't know that Muslim calls to prayer were banned in Singapore. Although I've never heard one there but then again don't recall ever having stayed near a mosque. I used to be very surprised that calls to prayer in Thailand are permitted outside the southernmost part of the country. Always thought that Buddhists might have a problem with it, but so far no problems, however, I wouldn't be surprised if Thai Buddhists, not used to such things in a province like Nan might protest such things. Wouldn't be surprised at all.

Interestingly, on a recent trip to Myanmar I was staying near a mosque in Pyin Oo Lwin (Maymyo) just north of Mandalay. It's probably the only mosque in town, from what I could tell anyway. There was indeed a call to prayer followed almost immediately by a very loud marching from soldiers at the nearby military academy, within probably a minute of the call to prayer ending, which wasn't very long or particularly loud, but I just happened to hear it on both mornings I stayed there because of the cold in the room.

[simple1]

What would happen in the Christian missonaries were to try & build another place of worship as they are busily trying to convert the local tribes people?

http://www.lcamission.org.au/stories/news/pastor-simon-mackenzie/

Sounds as though Buddhist nationalists are stirring the pot. A quote from the orginal report...

The "Nan Residents Against Mosque" page also cited a series of conspiracy theories to support its cause, such as an alleged plot by Muslims to take over northern Thailand and link the region with the Muslim Rohingyas in Myanmar and Muslim Uiqhurs in China. Another post claimed that "Christian and Muslim" officials were conspiring to cut Buddhist lessons from state schools in Thailand.