Solar Power

[ExpatOilWorker]

Just came across the below in Bangkok:

1,500 W - 56,000 baht

2,000 W - 72,900 baht

3,000 W - 108,600 baht

3,600 W 135,200 baht

Assuming 5 baht/kWh and 8 hours of 80% nominal rate, each set will have just about a 3 years pay-back-time.

[gerry123]

where in bkk please

[Crossy]

Amorn Solar.

Several locations around Bangkok and Thailand.

Check out amorngroup.com

[ExpatOilWorker]

The pictures are from The Old Siam 3rd floor, but take your pick: http://www.amorngroup.com/en/branch.php

[IMHO]

Amorn Solar.

Several locations around Bangkok and Thailand.

Check out amorngroup.com

or, their dedicated site for solar: http://www.amornsolar.com/

Note that the prices being quoted do not include accessories like panel rails, wiring etc and do not include installation or commissioning.

[ExpatOilWorker]

Lets say you have a 3,000 W system and only use 1,000 W during the day. Are you allowed to spin the meter backwards and pump power back into the grid?

[Forkinhades]

I think you need a grid tie inverter.

crossy will be here soon

[Crossy]

Lets say you have a 3,000 W system and only use 1,000 W during the day. Are you allowed to spin the meter backwards and pump power back into the grid?

Assuming you have a grid-tie inverter (like the ones in the OP) the regular disc type meters will go backwards if you are generating more than you use. They go forwards again at night, so you are effectively using the grid as storage.

As far as being 'allowed' it's something of a grey area but many people just do it. So long as you don't become a net exporter of power nobody will give a flying.

The official system involves a separate sell-meter and an agreement with the supply authority, these are currently only available to very large generators. There is a system call (IIRC) My Solar Roof which allows small (domestic) generators to get paid a premium for power they export. Membership is currently closed but it may re-materialise at any time.

Note that if you have a grid-tie and your mains goes off you will have no power, the inverter shuts down automatically to prevent back-feed to the grid. Pay more money and you can have a hybrid system which keeps the lights on when the mains is off (using batteries at night) but can still export excess power to the grid once the batteries are full. Expect to pay $$$

EDIT.

The OP may be over-estimating how much power one can get from these systems.

There's a handy calculator here http://www.valentin-software.com/en?gclid=CICax8fIi8QCFRYWjgodECcAjw that will give you an idea how much power you can expect to get from your PV system

A 1.5kW system in Bangkok will generate about 1921 kWh per year. At 4.5 Baht per unit that gives a payback of around 6.5 years. Still acceptable.

[IMHO]

Lets say you have a 3,000 W system and only use 1,000 W during the day. Are you allowed to spin the meter backwards and pump power back into the grid?

Assuming you have a grid-tie inverter (like the ones in the OP) the regular disc type meters will go backwards if you are generating more than you use. They go forwards again at night, so you are effectively using the grid as storage.

As far as being 'allowed' it's something of a grey area but many people just do it. So long as you don't become a net exporter of power nobody will give a flying.

The official system involves a separate sell-meter and an agreement with the supply authority, these are currently only available to very large generators. There is a system call (IIRC) My Solar Roof which allows small (domestic) generators to get paid a premium for power they export. Membership is currently closed but it may re-materialise at any time.

Note that if you have a grid-tie and your mains goes off you will have no power, the inverter shuts down automatically to prevent back-feed to the grid. Pay more money and you can have a hybrid system which keeps the lights on when the mains is off (using batteries at night) but can still export excess power to the grid once the batteries are full. Expect to pay $$$

EDIT.

The OP may be over-estimating how much power one can get from these systems.

There's a handy calculator here http://www.valentin-software.com/en?gclid=CICax8fIi8QCFRYWjgodECcAjw that will give you an idea how much power you can expect to get from your PV system

A 1.5kW system in Bangkok will generate about 1921 kWh per year. At 4.5 Baht per unit that gives a payback of around 6.5 years. Still acceptable.

Those numbers seem to be an average of 3.5 hours harvesting per day. Pretty much every vendor I've seen in TH works on 4.5 - 5.0 hours/day. Then again, it only has country level resolution, and Thailand's solar map actually looks like this:

[Nuddy]

It looks like a solution but mainly to cut down the power bill, say to cover the air conditioning cost in the daytime.

A battery system type tied in looks to solve the problem of company power outage.

It would be better for lay persons if an installation and commissioning cost was also available. Like fully installed and running total fee.

However what the OP and others have said certainly helps towards a comparison price. Thanks.

[Daniel Boon]

You can have the best inverter and panels, but if the orientation is not right, if the panels are shaded (trees, other buildings) then you're already in trouble.

[IMHO]

You can have the best inverter and panels, but if the orientation is not right, if the panels are shaded (trees, other buildings) then you're already in trouble.

......you forgot one thing: ....and if the panels are dirty!

[NoshowJones]

Amorn Solar.

Several locations around Bangkok and Thailand.

Check out amorngroup.com

or, their dedicated site for solar: http://www.amornsolar.com/

Note that the prices being quoted do not include accessories like panel rails, wiring etc and do not include installation or commissioning.

Yes, that's right, I paid 68000K for the 1.500, that included everything, the six panels, the panel rails, all the wiring and installation. Not another Baht to be paid.

[NoshowJones]

I think you need a grid tie inverter.

crossy will be here soon

Yes you do, and Crossy knows his stuff, he was a great help to me.

[Dazinoz]

I had a 3kw system in Australia and I did a lot of research before jumping in and buying.

Firstly a lot of people think that if it is a nice hot sunny day you will get maximum power from your system. This is partially true as far as far as the sunny part goes. As far as the hot part goes that becomes a negative. The panels generate electricity from light not heat. The standard for quoting a panel rating is at 25 degrees C. In the specs of a panel you will see a negative figure. That figure is how much the panel de-rates itself for every degree over 25C. That temp is the temp of the panel and not the surrounding air. The dark panels sitting in the hot sun will soon get well over the 25C. I have proven this to be very true in Australia when I got my wife to watch the output meter on the inverter as I hosed the panels to cool them down. A significant increase in output even though the water spray and droplets would diffuse some of the light getting to the panels.

Next is the panels. There are panels and there are panels. Like anything you get what you pay for. Monocrystalline panels are better than the polycrystalline ones just by the nature of manufacture. Best to look at all the specs and compare. Much the same applies to the inverters. You get what you pay for. I had SMA brand and found excellent.

Next, as someone mentioned, is orientation and shading. In Brisbane Australia where ours was installed the perfect orientation was the panels facing due North at an incline of 27.5 degrees to the horizontal. I guess here in the northern hemisphere it would be due south but I don't know what inclination. Shading... you want none. You need a certain voltage from your panels to allow the inverter to work. What that usually means a number of panels in series to total up the voltage. Depending on the number of panels you have you could have series/parallel arrays. I had 18 panels with 2 series groups of 9 panels in series each and the 2 groups in parallel. If any part of any panel is shaded then the whole series output drops. The cells within the panels are in series. Again I proved this by having wife watch output while I put my shadow over one panel. There was a dramatic drop in output.

As someone else mentioned dust and dirt is another problem, especially somewhere like her in Chiang Mai. You would need to be cleaning the panels often to maintain good output.

So before racing out and buying a system do your homework.

I hope this helps a bit.

[IMHO]

Amorn Solar.

Several locations around Bangkok and Thailand.

Check out amorngroup.com

or, their dedicated site for solar: http://www.amornsolar.com/

Note that the prices being quoted do not include accessories like panel rails, wiring etc and do not include installation or commissioning.

Yes, that's right, I paid 68000K for the 1.500, that included everything, the six panels, the panel rails, all the wiring and installation. Not another Baht to be paid.

+12K for install, accessories and commissioning sound pretty reasonable.

I'm curious - did you join the solar rooftop program (i.e. you know have 2 meters - buy and sell), or are you just spinning your buy meter backwards? If the latter, did you or Amorn notify the PEA/MEA of your new system? I'm ready to install a 5kW system, but I don't like to contract obligations of the solar rooftop program, and am still not very clear on the legalities/obligations of doing it outside the program.

[IMHO]

Next, as someone mentioned, is orientation and shading. In Brisbane Australia where ours was installed the perfect orientation was the panels facing due North at an incline of 27.5 degrees to the horizontal. I guess here in the northern hemisphere it would be due south but I don't know what inclination.

That part is simple - if the panels are going to be solidly fixed/immovable, you install them at the same angle as your latitude - South facing in the Northern hemisphere, North facing in the Southern one.

[ExpatOilWorker]

I just got the entry level kitty set: 3,695 baht

[Dazinoz]

Next, as someone mentioned, is orientation and shading. In Brisbane Australia where ours was installed the perfect orientation was the panels facing due North at an incline of 27.5 degrees to the horizontal. I guess here in the northern hemisphere it would be due south but I don't know what inclination.

That part is simple - if the panels are going to be solidly fixed/immovable, you install them at the same angle as your latitude - South facing in the Northern hemisphere, North facing in the Southern one.

Ok, some thing new I learnt. Thanks.

[IMHO]

I just got the entry level kitty set:

I have to admit I'm a little jealous

I did install 2 solar hot water systems a couple of weeks ago, to help satisfy my itch for a little while That saved me ~1,000 Baht on my electricity bill, after being installed for just 10 days of the billing cycle (off an average bill this time of year of 6K) .

[Crossy]

Actually when you're as close to the equator as we are the tilt becomes a bit more complex

One of the many calculators on the net http://solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-angle-calculator.html

[IMHO]

Actually when you're as close to the equator as we are the tilt becomes a bit more complex

One of the many calculators on the net http://solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-angle-calculator.html

Yep, if you have movable panels, that site shows exactly what you should do - but if you average out their numbers (pity they are ref: vertical) , I'm pretty sure you'll still find it's = to your latitude.

Edit: Yep. I just did the numbers for Ubon which is 15 degrees North, and the average vertical angle for the year was 75 degrees from that site. 90-75=15

[Feesbay John]

The JSI Grid Tie is from JFY and these are not on the approved list for the PEA BUT they are cheaper than the grid ties that are, so be careful. Most places charge between 12 to 15 baht per watt to install. So a 280w panel will cost you another 4,200 baht to be installed. @ 15 baht per watt. The Globatt batteries we used to sell BUT have had to many problems with them and have now gone over to Bellco. Heat can be a problem, always leave a 1cm gap around the panels and at least 6 to 8 inch from the roof to allow max air flow. The angle we find the best is to have between 12 to 14 inch over a 2 meter long panel which is what the 280 and 300w panels are, or just under. One 280w panel will take your bill down around 200 baht per month so if your bill is an average off 2,000 baht you will need 10 x 280w panels and a 3kw Grid Tie. BUT always remember you have to marry the panels to the Grid Tie and the Grid Tie to the panels or it will not work at its max.

[khunPer]

I just got the entry level kitty set: 3,695 baht

That's going to produce some 800+ kWh to just equal investment, not including interest and maintenance, such as the storage battery.

Solar cells are great if you don't have grid available, otherwise you have to calculate carefully and consider interest loss and maintenance. I did some detailed calculation some years back when building my house, considering to place solar cells on the roof – and yes, the investment is lower now, perhaps half – but at that time the payback period would be in the level of 15+ years (rather 18 years). Began to think about lifetime of the equipment. Many of the popular European private installations are based on tax relief and overpriced electric from so-called “green energy”.

If some posters have realistic investment calculation by now for Thailand, including maintenance and other eventualities, that would be interesting to see...

[Muhendis]

Amorn Solar.

Several locations around Bangkok and Thailand.

Check out amorngroup.com

or, their dedicated site for solar: http://www.amornsolar.com/

Note that the prices being quoted do not include accessories like panel rails, wiring etc and do not include installation or commissioning.

Neither do they include combiners.

[Muhendis]

You can have the best inverter and panels, but if the orientation is not right, if the panels are shaded (trees, other buildings) then you're already in trouble.

Yep! You are right.

But it gets worse.

If you have prolonged shading of a few cells in a panel then you could suffer reverse voltage of that cell leading to destruction of the panel.

[Muhendis]

It looks like a solution but mainly to cut down the power bill, say to cover the air conditioning cost in the daytime.

A battery system type tied in looks to solve the problem of company power outage.

It would be better for lay persons if an installation and commissioning cost was also available. Like fully installed and running total fee.

However what the OP and others have said certainly helps towards a comparison price. Thanks.

If you have PEA power at the local rate (4 Bht/Kwhr). It is a waste of money to consider solar power. If you are out in the sticks, like me, with no reliable PEA power, or if you are environmentally sensitive to power generation then you could do better with solar. I am running a farm (pumps, welders, freezer et. al.) from a 12 KW system. I have what is described as a construction supply from PEA (temporary 8 TBht/KWhr) that is automatically connected when the batteries are low and the sun don't shine, but that is likely to be around 180v rms at high peak times. I recently upgraded from an 8 KW system. If anyone wants the 8 KW bits I have left PM me.

For my next project I am going to add wind power............

[ronthai]

Monthly electric bill 600-900baht depending season/months.

I wonder how long you plan to live and 36 hours a day aircon

[ExpatOilWorker]

I just got the entry level kitty set: 3,695 baht

That's going to produce some 800+ kWh to just equal investment, not including interest and maintenance, such as the storage battery.

Solar cells are great if you don't have grid available, otherwise you have to calculate carefully and consider interest loss and maintenance. I did some detailed calculation some years back when building my house, considering to place solar cells on the roof and yes, the investment is lower now, perhaps half but at that time the payback period would be in the level of 15+ years (rather 18 years). Began to think about lifetime of the equipment. Many of the popular European private installations are based on tax relief and overpriced electric from so-called green energy.

If some posters have realistic investment calculation by now for Thailand, including maintenance and other eventualities, that would be interesting to see...

In this case, the pay-back-time is one day, the day I install it. It is a gimmick and as such it doesnt make financial sense.

[IMHO]

It looks like a solution but mainly to cut down the power bill, say to cover the air conditioning cost in the daytime.

A battery system type tied in looks to solve the problem of company power outage.

It would be better for lay persons if an installation and commissioning cost was also available. Like fully installed and running total fee.

However what the OP and others have said certainly helps towards a comparison price. Thanks.

If you have PEA power at the local rate (4 Bht/Kwhr). It is a waste of money to consider solar power. If you are out in the sticks, like me, with no reliable PEA power, or if you are environmentally sensitive to power generation then you could do better with solar. I am running a farm (pumps, welders, freezer et. al.) from a 12 KW system. I have what is described as a construction supply from PEA (temporary 8 TBht/KWhr) that is automatically connected when the batteries are low and the sun don't shine, but that is likely to be around 180v rms at high peak times. I recently upgraded from an 8 KW system. If anyone wants the 8 KW bits I have left PM me.

For my next project I am going to add wind power............

Not sure how you arrive at it being ROI negative?

Let's say it costs 200K installed for a 5kW grid tie system, and let's say that you only average 3.5 full harvesting hours per day, over the course of a year.

Even at that, you're making close to 6400 units/year, which at 4.5 Baht/unit (inc FT and VAT) means you're recouping around 29K Baht/year, so payback within 7 years - even with arguably worst-case numbers.

Who knows, you might even recoup a little more in AC savings just from shading your roof with PV We should also remember that electricity prices only go up too... 10 years ago, it was only around 3 Baht/unit inc FT and VAT.

In any case, 200K isn't very much money in the context of a house - I spent that just on a TV for example - so for me, worth it just for the novelty value