Thai universities not recognised in worldwide ranking of institutes

[laislica]

The lack of Thai academic research papers in English is possibly a factor.

I don't think that's the reason somehow

The most prestigious university from Asia is the University of Tokyo in 12th

and are all the research papers in English at the University of Tokyo ?

one suspects not

Perhaps better not to make assumptions with no basis of fact?

Is it possible that you intend to misslead others?

I spent a few moments with my friend Google:- University of Tokyo papers in English

and I am certain that there are many other search phrases that would yield results since a search with

"university of tokyo papers in english graduate program" revealed

"Admission 2015 | ITASIA

itasia.iii.u-tokyo.ac.jp/admission.html

Graduate School of Interdisciplinary Information Studies ... The University of Tokyo provides a limited number of need-based exemptions of entrance fee and ..."

Report and academic paper writing support service at the ...

www.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/gacos/e/supportbook-e/13-e.html

In writing report assignments and academic papers (especially in English), ... There may be seminars for the University of Tokyo students and faculty or staff.

For an impressive list of just their regular English papers, follow this link:-

List of Regular Publications - General Information - The ...

www.c.u-tokyo.ac.jp/eng_site/info/research/publications/

7 Oct 2014 - A collection of research papers published by faculty staff at the Department of Language and ... Research in Human Geography at the University of Tokyo ... Edited by the Department of English, College of Arts and Sciences

GACoS --Academic Paper Support Book: Start here

www.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/gacos/e/supportbook-e.html

To students and faculty or staff of the University of Tokyo: How to use this web site ... Japanese edition, English edition, Chinese edition, Korean edition ...

The Tokyo Uni also has this:-

The ALESS (Active Learning of English for Science Students) Program - established in April 2008 - and the ALESA (Active Learning of English for Students of the Arts) Program - launched in April 2013 - seek to realise these objectives. ALESS and ALESA are compulsory courses in either the winter or summer semester for all first year students. These classes are all taught in small groups (of about 15 students) by native speakers, and follow their own unique curriculum under the coordination of the Program Managing Director.

[lildragon]

I was the only full professor at MUIC for six years, not teaching English. Likely the top University in Thailand, MU when AT ITS BEST, can prepare students to cling to passing if admitted to later study in USA.... and that is for the 20% fully motivated, studying students.

Let me spare you the sad stories and just say that Thailand universities will NEVER be on a rank equal even to state universities in the USA, the places I know.

The impossibilities range from desperately incompetent administrators (they do hiring, too) to faulty international faculty recruiting, to below low standards on "research" papers, to disinterested students not near in love with learning and having curiosity, to corruption and rug sweeping.

Improvement would only come from an expert determined Education Czar... like Robert Moses was for New York city planning. He had total authority to sell bonds, spend money, and on hiring, etc. His single intelligence and power given him shaped NYC forever. (He can be loved or condemned for the results of his plans and work, but he did bring housing and a coherent plan and achievement to that region of USA.)

The Thailand Education Czar must stop campus corruption, clean out deans' offices, appoint ethical competent presidents, and then move in an international team to revise the professorate with international standard teachers while converting whole campuses to all English and moving existing substandard faculty to contract employment during their phase-out. Credible tenure must be offered to get foreigner teachers to commit to living long term here (and interviewing costs be met by Thai colleges) and moving assistance provided (on campus housing for teachers is ideal).

TOTAL freedom of inquiry and expression is guaranteed faculty and students.

To get in, Thai students must be able to converse in English and take the mandatory 4-year English mastery courses regardless of their other major. (Think of that pressure on earlier-grade schools!) Counseling is provided to learn to be curious, politely, and to love reading and free inquiry and that questioning everything is noble and necessary.

The Education Czar also is to be provided with an armed home enclave and 24-hr bodyguards of retired SEALs. Good luck.

This is pretty much exactly what is needed. It'll never happen though, the old way is too deep rooted.

[wotsdermatter]

When I first came to Thailand in 1994 I worked at the Radjabat in Nakom Pathom. My first question to all members of staff was, "What is the grading system?" All of the Thai members said, "It is up to you, we do not have a standard grading system." The two members from the USA both told me they grade from 60 and up. Therefore, students in all of my classes were informed that their grades would be from 60 and up. First, I wrote it on the chalkboard, then it was so written in my grade book. After the first exam, which more than 50% failed. The head of the department "talked" with me and informed me that two Thai staff members had complained about my grading. I asked her if she remembered about my asking for information concerning the grading system at a time when all staff members had been present, she admitted she did. Ergo, I rested my case and she informed all of the staff that they had no reason to complain as they were the ones at fault as they had not provided me with anything that could be classified as a grading system. That changed the situation in that department as the following week everybody received a notice providing details for grading in the future and that was the first time any department had a proper grading system in place. In tertiary level education institutions in the west, all departments have a grading system in place from day one, but not here.

Edited March 13, 2015 by wotsdermatter

[angsta]

This will not change anything in Thailand. The people in charge of education here only care about how much money from their position and not Thai students. Anyone who has worked in the Thai 'education' system will tell you that.

This is clearly someone else's fault, possibly the Burmese or the USA. Too early too say. Whoever wrote this list doesn't understand Thailand or Thai culture.

Head in the sand and point the finger time...

[NickJ]

Hey Bill Clinton named Chula the Harvard of the East..........

[Mr Somtam]

Hey Bill Clinton named Chula the Harvard of the East..........

Had a cigar ready too!

[Bluespunk]

"Speaking to The Nation via email, Baty said Thai higher-learning institutes had not received enough nominations to sit among the world's most prestigious varsities.

"There is no way of knowing why this is happening," Baty said."

Yes there is.

[Daniel Ingalls]

There is a significant problem in Thailand when it comes to the spoken english language. We see it on TV, in the newspapers, and even in this forum. Mumbo Jumbo words that have no meaning in the articles presented. Technical words that are normally not use in every day conversation. Obscured words that have many meanings, and generally words that conjure "What are you talking about?"Example, PM "We are looking hard at the facts people bring forth, and have determined we

need to improve in these area's so people can understand what we have been doing right now" These are College grads translating Thai to English on TV. no, I agree the college levels in Thailand have a long way to go to meet the standards world wide. It seems also the Thailand college are preparing their students for jobs in the Thailand market period. They are focused on Thailand Issues, as if the rest of the world does't exist. There just isn't any interest in a global standardized requirements, to match graduates at other Universities. Thailand is in their own little world, making it difficult, if not impossible to match other Universities on an equal level.

[laislica]

Lack of English publications and peer contacts no doubt lowers the chance of being recognized. But I think the bigger problem is the Thai culture. They just aren't mean enough to the students and they continually lower standards. Lots of people flunk out of USA colleges. Engineering and Technical majors lose a lot of people when they start getting to the hard stuff and 3rd or 4th semester calculus. There is little room for niceness.

Yep a third of my Engineering course didn't make it past the first year.

Interesting.

I left school in April 1957, aged 15 and became an apprentice electrician.

I choose to go to night school at the local technical college.

I took ONC Elec Eng, HNC plus a couple of years of endorcements.

Because my firm granted me day release, they insisted that I took the City n Guilds B Cert in Regulation Tech.

I also did a Radio Amateurs course.

At no point were there less than 30 students in any class, despite the rules for HNC, limiting class numbers to 15 max.

They couldn't get the teachers.

No one dropped out - we had all choosen to be there for our own benefit.

It was extreemly hard work from age 17 to 23 so no time for socialisation.

Nowadays, my old Tech is a University.

When the student is ready - the teacher will appear.

In Thailand, Uni is mainly a social experience and degrees are handed out like Gold Stars to infants

With a degree, a job in Government is assured, will lead to tea money to suppliment income and end with a good pension.

Critical thinking is not taught - it is dangerous here.

However, Creative thinking is encouraged - how to get more tea money!

Thainess - a Thai degree shows that you have learned the ropes and will not rock the boat with critical thinking.

There is such a thing as being over qualified!

Why do more than is necessary?

Seriously, in this culture why change?

We may think it is wrong but it is their culture and it sure as hell seems to work for them!

Recent surveys show that the Majority of Thais accept corruption as a norm!

They say it's fine and everyone should be in on it!

Until that attitude changes - Nothing can be done - Thai's want it this way.

All is good until it isn't.

Eventually, everything will crash and burn but they were wearing the correct amulets "for Lucky" and always have the Farang to blame LOL

Buddah will take care.

For goodness sake, don't tink too mut, make head hurt!

[Kaalle]

And why the hell would they? Like Mcdonalds being included in the Michelin guide.

[gandalf12]

The Thai universities are not integrated into the main stream and for recognition that is vital. The main reason they are not integrated is because they dont publish in English. If they want to get recognised they have to be known to the world and right or wrong Thai is only understood in Thailand.

[HOAX]

Thais do not publish much of their studies in English, because it`s very little care to do. Thais care about Thailand. Period. But Thailand is in fact surprisingly active on some research fields, though the quality of their studies varies a lot.

Most of their studies are not done by universities or science institutes, like it is in most countries, but rather by the very many randomly placed (often privately owned) low-end research facilities, which for the most part covers agriculture and sea-life (food). These research facilities (if you can call them that) are most often located around farms and ponds within village areas, which is really not a bad thing, but with very little English language- and low quality scientific skills, very few of them to say the leased are seen as respected biologists, sociologists, geographers, climatologists and so on who get their studies published by renowned publishers.

A very few studies are done by universities though, and even fewer are published in English, and when it is I rarely see any studies that does not focus on behavior of Thai students, which in some cases involves studies of Thais usage of new technology, but mostly social behavior and it`s consequences of Thais.

There`s a couple of exceptions, Thammasat University, for instance, which holds universities in several cities as well as in BKK, has a very high education level in various scientific fields and other academics. The problem though is that the university is strictly controlled by the government. Almost all Prime Ministers, leading politicians, bankers, court presidents, judges and lawyers were raised out of this university.

Thailand do have science institutes, but again, they`re strictly controlled and directed by the government. The most prominent scientific field in Thailand is technology, where the students are more free, and works with universities in other countries, such as Tokyo Institute of Technology.

To me it does not look like Thailand is going to become a world role model in science, education and knowledge any time soon, but it would be nice if I was wrong.

Edited March 13, 2015 by HOAX

[kinmaew]

Oh Oh... the elite wont like this because in the "Happiness State" Thais are always right (In their own minds)

[Seligne2]

I am in no position to judge the worthiness of universities, let alone Asian and Thai universities. But I work a lot with Thai government statistics. I can tell you that the overall quality, if they exist at all, are pathetic. Go to the National Statistical Office of Thailand, or the Department of Fisheries, or the Department of Civil Aviation. If you find what you are looking for, it will likely be out of date or amateurishly done. Presumably, the people putting these together are all U-graduates, which to me does not speak highly of either their training or their willingness to do a good job.

[AlQaholic]

Interesting that the "THE" is using selection criteria and procedures almost identical to those of the Nobel Prices.

[AlQaholic]

Hey Bill Clinton named Chula the Harvard of the East..........

Had a cigar ready too!

Hey! When Bill became President some poor village in the U.S. lost it's village idiot!

[MrJohnson]

I was the only full professor at MUIC for six years, not teaching English. Likely the top University in Thailand, MU when AT ITS BEST, can prepare students to cling to passing if admitted to later study in USA.... and that is for the 20% fully motivated, studying students.

Let me spare you the sad stories and just say that Thailand universities will NEVER be on a rank equal even to state universities in the USA, the places I know.

The impossibilities range from desperately incompetent administrators (they do hiring, too) to faulty international faculty recruiting, to below low standards on "research" papers, to disinterested students not near in love with learning and having curiosity, to corruption and rug sweeping.

Improvement would only come from an expert determined Education Czar... like Robert Moses was for New York city planning. He had total authority to sell bonds, spend money, and on hiring, etc. His single intelligence and power given him shaped NYC forever. (He can be loved or condemned for the results of his plans and work, but he did bring housing and a coherent plan and achievement to that region of USA.)

The Thailand Education Czar must stop campus corruption, clean out deans' offices, appoint ethical competent presidents, and then move in an international team to revise the professorate with international standard teachers while converting whole campuses to all English and moving existing substandard faculty to contract employment during their phase-out. Credible tenure must be offered to get foreigner teachers to commit to living long term here (and interviewing costs be met by Thai colleges) and moving assistance provided (on campus housing for teachers is ideal).

TOTAL freedom of inquiry and expression is guaranteed faculty and students.

To get in, Thai students must be able to converse in English and take the mandatory 4-year English mastery courses regardless of their other major. (Think of that pressure on earlier-grade schools!) Counseling is provided to learn to be curious, politely, and to love reading and free inquiry and that questioning everything is noble and necessary.

The Education Czar also is to be provided with an armed home enclave and 24-hr bodyguards of retired SEALs. Good luck.

Well put. Good points all. I like the czar idea. Someone with autonomy, budget and power.

And of course, the bodyguards, a bus load!

[Alwyn]

Poorly trained tutors. Lack of international language research papers/facilities. learn by memory not by discovery etc etc all problems but the main problem is the quality of the students. Intelligence is not a factor for achieving a univesity place. The parents ability to pay for that place is the only thing that counts. There are plenty of really smart kids from poor families that will never get to university because their parents cannot afford it and there's no loan facilities. So what the universities are getting is the dimwitted (not ALL dimwitted obviously as some rich kids can be smart too) spoiled kids from the richer families.

[sawadee1947]

I am guessing but don't most, if not all, the hiso and affluent families send their sprogs to Australia, England or USA to get educated at uni level and the ones in the family that aren't to smart go to local uni and become actors on TV.....yes?

or presenter on channel 3 !!!

[jdinasia]

The lack of Thai academic research papers in English is possibly a factor.

I don't think that's the reason somehow

The most prestigious university from Asia is the University of Tokyo in 12th

and are all the research papers in English at the University of Tokyo ?

one suspects not

Try Google. University of Tokyo research

[sawadee1947]

Poorly trained tutors. Lack of international language research papers/facilities. learn by memory not by discovery etc etc all problems but the main problem is the quality of the students. Intelligence is not a factor for achieving a univesity place. The parents ability to pay for that place is the only thing that counts. There are plenty of really smart kids from poor families that will never get to university because their parents cannot afford it and there's no loan facilities. So what the universities are getting is the dimwitted (not ALL dimwitted obviously as some rich kids can be smart too) spoiled kids from the richer families.

I agree with you. If you have a look on EU universities, where education is free (many countries) you will find a high % of kids from lower income classes...!

[jerojero]

And is this a surprise to whom? Why do you think all hi-so Thai business persons go to the West for post secondary education!

[kaorop]

I was the only full professor at MUIC for six years, not teaching English. Likely the top University in Thailand, MU when AT ITS BEST, can prepare students to cling to passing if admitted to later study in USA.... and that is for the 20% fully motivated, studying students.

Let me spare you the sad stories and just say that Thailand universities will NEVER be on a rank equal even to state universities in the USA, the places I know.

The impossibilities range from desperately incompetent administrators (they do hiring, too) to faulty international faculty recruiting, to below low standards on "research" papers, to disinterested students not near in love with learning and having curiosity, to corruption and rug sweeping.

Improvement would only come from an expert determined Education Czar... like Robert Moses was for New York city planning. He had total authority to sell bonds, spend money, and on hiring, etc. His single intelligence and power given him shaped NYC forever. (He can be loved or condemned for the results of his plans and work, but he did bring housing and a coherent plan and achievement to that region of USA.)

The Thailand Education Czar must stop campus corruption, clean out deans' offices, appoint ethical competent presidents, and then move in an international team to revise the professorate with international standard teachers while converting whole campuses to all English and moving existing substandard faculty to contract employment during their phase-out. Credible tenure must be offered to get foreigner teachers to commit to living long term here (and interviewing costs be met by Thai colleges) and moving assistance provided (on campus housing for teachers is ideal).

TOTAL freedom of inquiry and expression is guaranteed faculty and students.

To get in, Thai students must be able to converse in English and take the mandatory 4-year English mastery courses regardless of their other major. (Think of that pressure on earlier-grade schools!) Counseling is provided to learn to be curious, politely, and to love reading and free inquiry and that questioning everything is noble and necessary.

The Education Czar also is to be provided with an armed home enclave and 24-hr bodyguards of retired SEALs. Good luck.

Love the tag line!

and all the rest is but a dream

[jdinasia]

Hey Bill Clinton named Chula the Harvard of the East..........

Chula is, in fact, a decent university.

Contrary to the claims of many people on this thread Chula TU Mahidol etc get the majority of the students based not on the affluence (directly) of the parents. They base admission on grades, test scores, community participation, and an interview.

There's very little research done in Thailand that gets published in English. How would these academics know about universities here which rarely use any other languages than Thai as the means of education?

[Paulc01]

I was the only full professor at MUIC for six years, not teaching English. Likely the top University in Thailand, MU when AT ITS BEST, can prepare students to cling to passing if admitted to later study in USA.... and that is for the 20% fully motivated, studying students.

Let me spare you the sad stories and just say that Thailand universities will NEVER be on a rank equal even to state universities in the USA, the places I know.

The impossibilities range from desperately incompetent administrators (they do hiring, too) to faulty international faculty recruiting, to below low standards on "research" papers, to disinterested students not near in love with learning and having curiosity, to corruption and rug sweeping.

Improvement would only come from an expert determined Education Czar... like Robert Moses was for New York city planning. He had total authority to sell bonds, spend money, and on hiring, etc. His single intelligence and power given him shaped NYC forever. (He can be loved or condemned for the results of his plans and work, but he did bring housing and a coherent plan and achievement to that region of USA.)

The Thailand Education Czar must stop campus corruption, clean out deans' offices, appoint ethical competent presidents, and then move in an international team to revise the professorate with international standard teachers while converting whole campuses to all English and moving existing substandard faculty to contract employment during their phase-out. Credible tenure must be offered to get foreigner teachers to commit to living long term here (and interviewing costs be met by Thai colleges) and moving assistance provided (on campus housing for teachers is ideal).

TOTAL freedom of inquiry and expression is guaranteed faculty and students.

To get in, Thai students must be able to converse in English and take the mandatory 4-year English mastery courses regardless of their other major. (Think of that pressure on earlier-grade schools!) Counseling is provided to learn to be curious, politely, and to love reading and free inquiry and that questioning everything is noble and necessary.

The Education Czar also is to be provided with an armed home enclave and 24-hr bodyguards of retired SEALs. Good luck.

Why did you bother with this? You and I both know how hopeless the university system and TVF is on this matter. I actually disagree with you, btw, about the students. Those at MUIC/MU respond to what they're given to work with, jaded, unqualified burn-outs, or fraudsters whose only qualification is the ability to scam gullible Thai administrators, who, yes, are corrupt. If the students appear lazy and cynical, it's not necessarily because they're incapable but because their worthless, untrained, poorly credentialed teachers have all the motivational effect of sleeping pills. Less than one percent of faculty at Thai universities could get a full time, tenure track job at an American university, including all those expats on this forum who claim Thai university experience. And why on earth would you bother with this message board? Every other poster claims to have been a university professor, and they have no clue about what is going on here or in the US and Europe. Some of them claim to have won "prizes" at academic conferences! Others speak with authority only on being an authority. Bottom line? It is a complete and utter scandal that a university (MU) with two hospitals, a dental school, a variety of language and cultural institutes, and a high profile music program can't even break into the top 400 universities in the world. (BTW, our old stomping grounds just off Central Expwy has managed to get the formula right and break into the top 150 list after being in business for less than 50 years. It is possible to grow, attain credibility, and acclaim if you have vision, discipline, and dedication to a tactical infrastructure that achieves high goals. This just isn't going to happen, here.)

[sean in udon]

"Each one can nominate no more than 10 institutions that, in their expert opinion, they believe to be performing the most strongly for teaching and research," said Phil Baty, editor of the rankings.

Speaking to The Nation via email, Baty said Thai higher-learning institutes had not received enough nominations to sit among the world's most prestigious varsities.

"There is no way of knowing why this is happening," Baty said.

Absolutely the funniest thing I've read in weeks.

I love irony/sarcasm and, whether intentional or not, this ranks really high.

[gandalf12]

I have met some very good Thai graduates, mostly however universities appear to teach such that if the solution to a problem can not be found in a book they are stuck. Universities in the West place greater emphasis on teaching the under graduates to think problems through until they arrive at an answer.

Real life problems very rarely have text book solutions

[ggt]

"There is no way of knowing why this is happening," Baty said.

"There's your sign"...you must recognize the problem...before you can solve it...

Keeping the dismal record consistent, Thai university applicants scored an average 28.34% in English in the recent university entrance exams. It is little wonder that Thailand produces a “workforce with some of the world’s weakest English-language skills.” In a recent IMD World Competitiveness Report Thailand was ranked 54th out of 56 countries globally for English proficiency, the second-lowest in Asia. Singapore was third, Malaysia 28th and Korea 46th (Reuters & The Korea Herald).

[moobie]

A few questions for my curiosity :

Does Thailand actually want anything other than a compliant population - students with questions may also get "ideas" and explore them further?

What is more valuable in Thai society to "get on" - a high-level of understanding of a topic(s) or connections?

Do you "get on" better by "rocking the boat" or shutting up and doing as told?

To obtain some jobs I believe you need a degree and in some cases need to be "fully Thai" - for those without the latter where does the motivation lie?

And finally, Why do so many jobs out in Thailand seeming need a graduate to fill the role anyway?

[gandalf12]

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A few questions for my curiosity :

Does Thailand actually want anything other than a compliant population - students with questions may also get "ideas" and explore them further?

What is more valuable in Thai society to "get on" - a high-level of understanding of a topic(s) or connections?

Do you "get on" better by "rocking the boat" or shutting up and doing as told?

To obtain some jobs I believe you need a degree and in some cases need to be "fully Thai" - for those without the latter where does the motivation lie?

And finally, Why do so many jobs out in Thailand seeming need a graduate to fill the role anyway?

I get the impression they are not encouraged to question people above them. Totally wrong in my opinion but there again I question everyone right up to the top man in the company I work for