Am I breaking the law ?

[MDS]

I am considering buying a house here in Thailand ( I know that basically means buying the house and leasing the land on which it sits for 3 x 30 year periods) and the owner has asked if I can pay him part or even all of the money in the UK.

I have the cash there so can, but if I do am I breaking the law or helping the seller break the law ? And when I get round to selling the house which I am sure I eventually will, would I still be allowed to transfer the money back to the UK if I wished.

Thanks for any advise.

[trogers]

3 X 30 years lease have been ruled void. Meaning such a lease is deemed never to have existed.

[Rdrokit]

3 X 30 years lease have been ruled void. Meaning such a lease is deemed never to have existed.

True. Only 30 year leases are valid and then there are many problems that can pop up. A friend of mine went this route. The lady the leased him the land was very nice. Unfortunately she was old and got Alzheimer's. Then her relatives got control of her property and that's when the sh#t hit the fan. Long story short, he no longer has a house and lost his money. If it were me I would never buy a house on leased property. Rent is so cheap over here I would rent a house or buy a condo. Just MHO.

[WorkingTourist]

would I still be allowed to transfer the money back to the UK if I wished

As a foreigner transferring money out of Thailand you normally need a document stating the source of funds.

If the amount is significant, I would ask the seller to include a copy of their FET form together with the sales agreement, or more likely, insist that the payment be sent from a Thai bank (you can likely do a GBP currency account to avoid exchange rate fluctuations).

[Sharp]

Don't do it!!

Rent for the foreseeable future and you never know things may and I mean MAY change once Thailand wakes up.

IMHO.

[maidee]

rent is the future

for all of those that thinking paying in advance is cheaper in the long run ...

bad neighbors ... try to sell it to someone else

no regulations about zoning, so if your neighboor want to start a garage / karaoke / good luck with that

[Jip99]

Why do you want to buy ?

Straight forward question that you don't need to answer to me, or anyone else on this forum - but you are answerable to yourself and I would suggest that you think long and hard and be sure that you can convince yourself if decide to proceed.

[sead]

Buy a house in Community

[ToddinChonburi]

30 year 3 term leases are illegal and now waiting on the Supreme court ruling on 30 year lease. Not looking good.

[pbonline]

Buying a house in Thailand is one of the most stupid thing you can do.
If you must buy, buy a condo that you can own.

If you buy with 30 year leasing, just forget that you can sell it again.
And as other say, a 30+30+30 is not legal at all.

There is only one way to buy a house here and that is on a company that has ongoing business and pays taxes etc, a lots of people buy houses on companies that does not have an ongoing business and that is not legal and they can lose their house.

[12DrinkMore]

Just find a nice girlfriend from down Pattaya way and buy her a a house so you can live happily ever after.

[oxo1947]

Just find a nice girlfriend from down Pattaya way and buy her a a house so you can live happily ever after.

.

Make sure it is on her Papa's land though----that way you will get a better deal...................

[Robert24]

Better buy than lease in my opinion.

[Thai Travel Bug]

Only buy a condo in a foreign name, foreign quota. Do not try to circumnavigate the law, because one day it may catch up with you. There is definately no 3 x 30 year leases available, and at the end of the day, if you put your faith in one person, your demise may come quicker than what would be deemed as natural demise. Dont allow a partner, or a friend, or any other promising you anything with land ownership to basically be in charge of your future. As a foreigner owning a nice condo, you own it, dont will it to anyone you are in a relationship with, and live within the law. My wife is sole heir to my condo, and that is only under the premis that I die a natural death. If my death were to be deemed suicide or murder, no matter the circumstance, she will be deemed to walk away with nothing. And I love her dearly.

[flyingdoc]

Lots of sensible advice for once!

[stgrhe]

Lease of land for a longer period than 30 years is illegal and has never been legal despite some contracts say so. However, the first rule in any contract is that one can never avoid a condition of the law by agreement. Having said that, the lease may be extended with another 30 years following the expire of the first lease.

With regards to land lease, for most lease-holders it is simply best also to lease the land. To leagally separate the ownership of dwellings from the land one must proceed in a special maner, a maner that is different for an existing house to a new-build. Just signing a purchase and build contract for a house doesent make the lease-holder the owner of the house. If you really want the house in your name you should opt for a superficies right for the land, not a lease. A superficies can be signed for life or 30 years.

Finally, get a good solicitor as the wordings are very important.

[carter1882]

Every time there is a discussion on property all the same people come crawling out to say rent, rent, rent! Call me naive but i had no idea there were so many rent boys in Thailand.

[96tehtarp]

Yes a 3 X 30 lease is breaking the law, the maximum period for leases of land in Thailand is 30 years.

If your 30 year lease is duly registered you can lawfully use the land for 30 years. Another option is a usufruct whereby the land is yours to enjoy for the remained of your lifetime.

[Rdrokit]

Every time there is a discussion on property all the same people come crawling out to say rent, rent, rent! Call me naive but i had no idea there were so many rent boys in Thailand.

I for one told him to rent and I do not rent but to be single and build a house on someone else's land while still living in the UK. In my opinion not a smart thing to do.

[NanLaew]

I bought my first house (in company name) in Thailand about 30 years ago and paid the Thai owner in sterling from my UK bank to their kids UK bank account as they were studying in the UK at the time. This avoided me bringing money into Thailand as well as handily helping the owner who was losing her arse on fees and forex rates transferring living allowances and school fees to her kids in the UK. So that part was doable and probably still is. I ended up selling the house to my business (company) partner who in turn sold it to a mutual friend (in his wife's name) and I didn't hear of anyone having issues with the proceeds of the subsequent sales.

As for the OP's second question about repatriating the money if/when he sells up in Thailand, I don't see any problem unless it is a considerable lump sum in a one-off transfer. I note that I can set up remittances to overseas banks from my Bangkok Bank account and it doesn't appear to be restricted to resale of property that has any paper trail regarding the original purchase money coming from overseas. I know that the condo ownership law is pretty definitive on what evidence the bank needs to provide regarding source of funds but not sure if that law covers houses on leased land. Probably not but if there are fund repatriation issues bank-to-bank, there's always the money belt!

[khunPer]

The 3 x 30-year lease, often mentioned, is illegally, just as “trogers” says in post #2. Recently there has been something in the news section about Lease Agreements for more than 30 years can be annulled by Court, meaning the original first 30-years lease is also void. One 30-year Lease is legal and shall be registered at the Land Office, meaning tax paid, and the registration is the security for the lessor.

My lawyer used to say, that it’s a legal to agree additional lease term(s), but it’s only a paper between two parts, and that agreement can be broken by the one part, and then the other part need to bring it to court and claim damage; just like any ordinary contract breach. Perhaps such an agreement can be made as a separate contract, but not included as option in the original 30-year Lease Agreement, but don’t count on it as a security for a total of 60 or 90 years.

Apart from that, the 3 x 30 years, OP asks about paying part of the money, or all, offshore. To my knowledge – meaning cases I know about – the procedure of part paying offshore where used, where Land Office had a lower value registered than the actual trade price, and the difference between Land Office price and the full amount to be paid, where settled to an offshore account; i.e. you buy land for 5.5 million baht, but Land Office only have a value of 500,000 baht that is handed over in Thai currency, and transfer fee and taxes paid of that value, the remaining equivalent to 5 million baht is paid offshore. Don’t know what may be registered for a house on leased land and if offshore payment is legal at all, or not. Have the lease been prepaid and is that part of amount to be settled offshore...?

Using offshore payment means, that you may need to use same method when selling again – can be a question of tax – which may (or may not) limit you to foreign buyers.

When you buy property in Thailand and transfer the money – it used to be minimum equivalent to 20,000 USD, but may have been raised to 50,000 USD – you shall report to the National Bank (cannot remember the number/name of the Form) and make sure your bank gives you a stamped copy, which normally takes about a week. Keep your stamped copy as proof to legally transfer similar amount out of Thailand, if you later sell the property.

I will advise OP to check with an experienced real estate lawyer about the case, what’s legal at present, get some advise, and also perform a due diligence of the property (house + land) in question; often the first consultation is free.

I wish OP good luck with his plans...

[mrfaroukh]

Are you sending money from your country to Thailand now or you have already done? If you going to do it now, then you already paying almost 30% more as your currency has lost value against Thai Baht, consider everything.

[PattayaPhom]

rent is the future

for all of those that thinking paying in advance is cheaper in the long run ...

bad neighbors ... try to sell it to someone else

no regulations about zoning, so if your neighboor want to start a garage / karaoke / good luck with that

DD goes a long way and will avoid these issues. I built our property 9 years ago for just under 3Mil, to rent the equivalent would be 25K a month, If renting that money was wasted. I don't even care to think about the value now because of its close proximity to the beach.

[WorkingTourist]

rent is the future

for all of those that thinking paying in advance is cheaper in the long run ...

bad neighbors ... try to sell it to someone else

no regulations about zoning, so if your neighboor want to start a garage / karaoke / good luck with that

DD goes a long way and will avoid these issues. I built our property 9 years ago for just under 3Mil, to rent the equivalent would be 25K a month, If renting that money was wasted. I don't even care to think about the value now because of its close proximity to the beach.

I assume “DD” is an initialism for “due diligence”, and would tend to agree. Also, buying versus renting isn’t just about money, owning your home gives security and more possibilities in what can be done (e.g. major changes, or even renting it out to others).

For me, I definitely want to own my home, though that excludes a Thai house, because I can’t actually own the land, so for now I’m going with a Thai condo and have done my due diligence to limit nasty surprises in the future.