Netanyahu win dashes prospect for a thaw with Obama

[dexterm]

I disagree completely with your false narrative of the history of Palestine.

Yes. We know that you claim that the main-stream history books are "false" and prefer to promote hateful websites with fabricated history. You have claimed many times that the Palestinians did not start Israel's War of Independence in 1948, but every reliable source says you are full of it. .

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948. https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war

Time for you to read a credible account in a format just perfect for you:

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=ft-BgQpMvmUC&pg=PA162&lpg=PA162&dq=Jamal+Husseini++told+the+Security+Council:+#v=onepage&q=Jamal%20Husseini%20%20told%20the%20Security%20Council%3A&f=false

Try this source then The Jewish Virtual Library..is that a credible enough source for you?

Even after the first waves of Jewish migrations 1890 - 1922, the Jewish population of Palestine was only 11% when the first census was taken in 1922, with the Palestinians forming a huge 89% of the population.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

Edited March 30, 2015 by dexterm

[Ulysses G.]

That - the credible source - says nothing different than I did and if you keep reading, they will back me up completely. There were more Arabs in the area than Jews at the turn of the last century, but the Jews had been there much longer and more and more of BOTH groups were arriving all the time. As I said, that is when MOST of the Arabs (and Jews) started showing up from abroad.

"Most of the "Palestinians" emigrated to the area just about the time that most of the Jews from Europe did, but Jews were living there for 3,000 years non-stop."

[uptheos]

[dexterm]

That - the credible source - says nothing different than I did and if you keep reading, they will back me up completely. There were more Arabs in the area than Jews at the turn of the last century, but the Jews had been there much longer and more and more of BOTH groups were arriving all the time. As I said, that is when MOST of the Arabs (and Jews) started showing up from abroad.

"Most of the "Palestinians" emigrated to the area just about the time that most of the Jews from Europe did, but Jews were living there for 3,000 years non-stop."

Your math doesn't add up.

Even your approved website, The Jewish Virtual Library,

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/demograhics.html

claims as far back as 1800 almost 100 years before the founding of Zionism in 1896 and the waves of Jewish migration it encouraged,Jews formed a mere 8.7% (24,000) and Palestinians 91.3% (275,000) of the population.

So your claim that Palestinians arrived about the same time as Jews, and in response to improved economic conditions inspired by Jews, is clearly bogus. The Palestinians have been the vast majority for centuries. And whatever happened to the Philistines who had a country from Gaza to Tel Aviv during biblical times? Did they just disappear?

I agree there has probably been a small community of Orthodox Jews living mainly in Jerusalem for many centuries, but clearly the vast majority living there also were Palestinian non Jews.

Are not they entitled to the right to self determination in their homeland also?

I hope Obama, the EU and the UN support that right too...the sooner the better, and we can end this conflict.

Edited March 30, 2015 by dexterm

[thaibeachlovers]

Perhaps someone can tell me what Israel has done for the US.

Incredible Intelligence about the Middle East and a trustworthy ally in an important region with few of them. Lets not forget their incredible and unique contributions to science. The country has more engineers and scientists per capita than any other country in the world, and has more companies quoted on the high-tech NASDAQ stock exchange than any other country outside the United States - more than all of Europe, India, and China combined.

Israelis are at the forefront of medical research into heart transplants, strokes and Hepatitis C. In the last ten years Israeli scientists have won five Noble prizes in the sciences.

Now, lets ask the same question about the Palestinians that Netanyahu is supposed to negotiate with.

They would have invented the same things if they lived in America, or are you claiming the air is special behind the wall?

a trustworthy ally in an important region with few of them

An ally to do what exactly? Israel has not supported America in Korean war, Vietnam war or any other war. It's all very one sided.

The Palestinians don't have to justify their existence. They were living on that land for generations before the US dominated UN stole it and gave it to the zionists. How would you like it if the UN decided to give your homeland to another group of people? It only happened because the British, that ran the place, were too gutless to do the right thing and say no to the US.

[thaibeachlovers]

I disagree completely with your false narrative of the history of Palestine.

Yes. We know that you claim that the main-stream history books are "false" and prefer to promote hateful websites with fabricated history. You have claimed many times that the Palestinians did not start Israel's War of Independence in 1948, but every reliable source says you are full of it. .

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948. https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war

Time for you to read a credible account in a format just perfect for you:

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=ft-BgQpMvmUC&pg=PA162&lpg=PA162&dq=Jamal+Husseini++told+the+Security+Council:+#v=onepage&q=Jamal%20Husseini%20%20told%20the%20Security%20Council%3A&f=false

YOU say five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate and then claim the Palestians started it. How can Palestinians invade their own land? Perhaps you are claiming the Palestinians were actually nationals of a different country, and were not actually living in their homeland at all.

[Ulysses G.]

That - the credible source - says nothing different than I did and if you keep reading, they will back me up completely. There were more Arabs in the area than Jews at the turn of the last century, but the Jews had been there much longer and more and more of BOTH groups were arriving all the time. As I said, that is when MOST of the Arabs (and Jews) started showing up from abroad.

"Most of the "Palestinians" emigrated to the area just about the time that most of the Jews from Europe did, but Jews were living there for 3,000 years non-stop."

Your math doesn't add up.

There is no math. "MOST" is not a specific number and has nothing to do with who had a larger population. I also made no claim that the Arabs immigrated in response to improved economic conditions inspired by Jews - YOU DID - but that is actually correct. Why do you and the other haters of Israel feel the need to post blatant lies so frequently to make your case?

Most of the "Palestinians" emigrated to the area just about the time that most of the Jews from Europe did, but Jews were living there for 3,000 years non-stop.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

I disagree completely with your false narrative of the history of Palestine.

Yes. We know that you claim that the main-stream history books are "false" and prefer to promote hateful websites with fabricated history. You have claimed many times that the Palestinians did not start Israel's War of Independence in 1948, but every reliable source says you are full of it. .

The Arab-Israeli War of 1948 broke out when five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate immediately following the announcement of the independence of the state of Israel on May 14, 1948. https://history.state.gov/milestones/1945-1952/arab-israeli-war

Time for you to read a credible account in a format just perfect for you:

http://books.google.co.th/books?id=ft-BgQpMvmUC&pg=PA162&lpg=PA162&dq=Jamal+Husseini++told+the+Security+Council:+#v=onepage&q=Jamal%20Husseini%20%20told%20the%20Security%20Council%3A&f=false

YOU say five Arab nations invaded territory in the former Palestinian mandate and then claim the Palestians started it. How can Palestinians invade their own land? Perhaps you are claiming the Palestinians were actually nationals of a different country, and were not actually living in their homeland at all.

Please try to keep up. It has been established long ago that there has NEVER been an independent Arab country called Palestine. The Palestinian Mandate was governed by ENGLAND. The Arabs were invading a sovereign country and got their butts beat. Again, no independent Arab country called Palestine EVER.

1) When was it founded and by whom?

2) What were its borders?

3) What was its capital?

4) What were its major cities?

5) What constituted the basis of its economy?

6) What was its form of government?

7) Can you name at least one Palestinian leader before Arafat(who was born in Egypt)?

8) Was Palestine ever recognized by a country whose existence, at that time or now, leaves no room for interpretation?

9) What was the language of the country of Palestine ?

10) What was the prevalent religion of the country of Palestine ?

11) What was the name of its currency? Choose any date in history and tell what was the approximate exchange rate of the Palestinian monetary unit against the US dollar, German mark, GB pound, Japanese yen, or Chinese yuan on that date. L7YxU.dpuf

Edited March 30, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[Linky]

Perhaps someone can tell me what Israel has done for the US.

Incredible Intelligence about the Middle East and a trustworthy ally in an important region with few of them. Lets not forget their incredible and unique contributions to science. The country has more engineers and scientists per capita than any other country in the world, and has more companies quoted on the high-tech NASDAQ stock exchange than any other country outside the United States - more than all of Europe, India, and China combined.

Israelis are at the forefront of medical research into heart transplants, strokes and Hepatitis C. In the last ten years Israeli scientists have won five Noble prizes in the sciences.

Now, lets ask the same question about the Palestinians that Netanyahu is supposed to negotiate with.

They would have invented the same things if they lived in America, or are you claiming the air is special behind the wall?

a trustworthy ally in an important region with few of them

An ally to do what exactly? Israel has not supported America in Korean war, Vietnam war or any other war. It's all very one sided.

The Palestinians don't have to justify their existence. They were living on that land for generations before the US dominated UN stole it and gave it to the zionists. How would you like it if the UN decided to give your homeland to another group of people? It only happened because the British, that ran the place, were too gutless to do the right thing and say no to the US.

Yes I do have to wonder about such claims. If they are that good why do they accept billions in aid.

What does it matter about what the Palestines have invented or been awarded with, what has that to do with anything? The aborigines in Australia hadn't even thought of the wheel, does that mean they are a backward race and deserve nothing?

What a disgusting way to view people.

[Linky]

[quote name="Ulysses G." post="9249352" timestamp="1427718785


Please try to keep up. It has been established long ago that there has NEVER been an independent Arab country called Palestine. The Arabs were invading a sovereign country and got their butts beat. Again, no independent Arab country called Palestine EVER.


Well that is changing as we speak, the majority of the world recognizes Palestine and soon they will officially be recognized by all.

Except Israel, but it won't matter what Israel thinks, they will just have to learn to live with it.

[BKKBobby]

Israel came into existence by giving the british mandated Palestine region with an arab majority to the European jews out of guilt. If they were to be given a country it should have been in Europe. Not on the expense of the majority of non-jews living in what now constitutes Israel proper. Jews are indigenous to Israel, who cares. Gypsies all over Europe are indigenous to India a thousand years ago, who cares. The Torah is unimportant. A holy book that says that Israel is the land of the jews has no importance. I dont get these link and poll wars. Its a OCD love for Israel. I understand the jews (Jingy, I know the difference between a jew and a Israeli, dont give me a headache, I see a lot of love for "her"(Israel) in american jewish posts.)

Edited March 30, 2015 by BKKBobby

[Ulysses G.]

What does it matter about what the Palestines have invented or been awarded with, what has that to do with anything? The aborigines in Australia hadn't even thought of the wheel, does that mean they are a backward race and deserve nothing?

The Aborigines did not declare war on people much smarter and more accomplished than them for little reason. In fact - unlike the Palestinian Arabs - they not the original aggressors. They mostly tried to settle their differences peacefully. They are not backward as far as I am concerned.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Ulysses G.

[BKKBobby]

What does it matter about what the Palestines have invented or been awarded with, what has that to do with anything? The aborigines in Australia hadn't even thought of the wheel, does that mean they are a backward race and deserve nothing?

The Aborigines did not declare war on people much smarter and more accomplished than them for little reason. In fact - unlike the Palestinian Arabs - they not the aggressors. They tried to settle their differences peacefully. They are not backward as far as I am concerned.

"Much smarter"?

Their is be people in the wilderness and savannahs of Africa with a higher IQ than Einstein.

Edited March 30, 2015 by BKKBobby

[Jingthing]

What does it matter about what the Palestines have invented or been awarded with, what has that to do with anything? The aborigines in Australia hadn't even thought of the wheel, does that mean they are a backward race and deserve nothing?

The Aborigines did not declare war on people much smarter and more accomplished than them for little reason. In fact - unlike the Palestinian Arabs - they not the aggressors. They tried to settle their differences peacefully. They are not backward as far as I am concerned.

"Much smarter"?

Their is be people in the wilderness and savannahs of Africa with a higher IQ than Einstein.

I'm skeptical.

You can prove that?

Edited March 30, 2015 by Jingthing

[BKKBobby]

What does it matter about what the Palestines have invented or been awarded with, what has that to do with anything? The aborigines in Australia hadn't even thought of the wheel, does that mean they are a backward race and deserve nothing?

The Aborigines did not declare war on people much smarter and more accomplished than them for little reason. In fact - unlike the Palestinian Arabs - they not the aggressors. They tried to settle their differences peacefully. They are not backward as far as I am concerned.

"Much smarter"?

Their is be people in the wilderness and savannahs of Africa with a higher IQ than Einstein.

I'm skeptical.

You can prove that?

You got millions of Africans living in a non modern way. You dont have to be Einstein to come to the conclusion that some of them have a very high IQ. Einsteins IQ is not one in a billion.

No, I cant prove that, there is no one doing surveys in the african savannahs and wilderness. Tiresome...

Edited March 30, 2015 by BKKBobby

[Scott]

Please get back on the topic, which isn't about IQ rates in the African Savannah, or anywhere else for that matter.

[Ulysses G.]

Israel came into existence by giving the british mandated Palestine region with an arab majority to the European jews out of guilt.

No matter what your rather uninformed, personal opinion is, on why Israel was given to the Jews, it is a done deal and has been a done deal for almost seven decades. There is thriving country with a successful economy and one of the best armies in the world there now and it's not going anywhere. FYI, no one is going to give California or Australia away either.

[Thorgal]

Israel came into existence by giving the british mandated Palestine region with an arab majority to the European jews out of guilt.

No matter what your rather uninformed, personal opinion is, on why Israel was given to the Jews, it is a done deal and has been a done deal for almost seven decades. There is thriving country with a successful economy and one of the best armies in the world there now and it's not going anywhere. FYI, no one is going to give California or Australia away either.

Quote from Nasser who warned Israel for keeping peace in the region :

"You will never be able to live here in peace, because you left here black and came back white.” (1952).

European Jews play a capital role in the peace proces.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Thorgal

[ScarpoFongness4U]

Great quote from Nasser, the guy that stood up, while everyone else ducked as the Muslim brotherhood kicked off their new peaceful political party

[snarky66]

US Grant is correct. The Jews have been living on that land for 3000 years. The Arabs next door have not. The Muslim Arabs have NO claim to that land based upon historical occupation. They showed up around 1945 when jobs began to appear.

And to contend otherwise in pure malarkey. Thus barry's insistence on a 2 state solution is hogwash too.

[Jingthing]

US Grant is correct. The Jews have been living on that land for 3000 years. The Arabs next door have not. The Muslim Arabs have NO claim to that land based upon historical occupation. They showed up around 1945 when jobs began to appear.

And to contend otherwise in pure malarkey. Thus barry's insistence on a 2 state solution is hogwash too.

It's not just Obama.

The two state solution, at least making steps towards it gradually. is really the consensus of reasonable people all over to this issue. Regardless of the history and various sins of each side, there are all those Arabs living in the West Bank and Gaza NOW. Israel can't make them Israeli citizens and stay as Israel, they don't want to be Israeli citizens (mostly want Israel gone), other Arab countries don't want them. Sure Israel can go even more right wing but that isn't a sustainable happy answer for either side.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

Its already been decided.

Egypt will ask for, and receive Gaza back into its fold so they can eradicate nHamas and the Muslim Brotherhood there. Only Egypt can do that.

Jordan will receive the west Bank, after they are nearly destroyed by ISIS and they ask Israel to annex the area, granting the Arabs there full Jordanian citizenship.

Its already happening, I spite of the peace process which was never about peace and always about the process

[Jingthing]

Its already been decided.

Egypt will ask for, and receive Gaza back into its fold so they can eradicate nHamas and the Muslim Brotherhood there. Only Egypt can do that.

Jordan will receive the west Bank, after they are nearly destroyed by ISIS and they ask Israel to annex the area, granting the Arabs there full Jordanian citizenship.

Its already happening, I spite of the peace process which was never about peace and always about the process

I must have missed the memo.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

Look at it from a military view

Egypt is at war in Sinai w ISIS, Al queda, Hama's and the Muslim brotherhood

They need to stop the flow of fighters and weapons coming thru Gaza.

Once Israel is more secure w AlSisi they will allow it.

They have already allowed several major changes to their peace treaty re: Sinai. They will expand it

Jordan is the one in peril.

They will need Israel more than ever soon

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies removed.

[thaibeachlovers]

Israel came into existence by giving the british mandated Palestine region with an arab majority to the European jews out of guilt.

No matter what your rather uninformed, personal opinion is, on why Israel was given to the Jews, it is a done deal and has been a done deal for almost seven decades. There is thriving country with a successful economy and one of the best armies in the world there now and it's not going anywhere. FYI, no one is going to give California or Australia away either.

with a successful economy

Can we expect to see the Israelis live without sponging off the US then? If not, why not?

one of the best armies in the world

Since the last real war in '67, the only "enemy" the Israeli army has fought has been the Palestinians, which are vastly underarmed in comparison. If the Palestinians were equally armed, I think the Israeli army of today would fare less well than you think they would.

Yes, they went into Lebanon, but it was hardly an equal contest. They didn't do too well last time they tried it either. If I remember correctly, Had to run back home.

[ScarpoFongness4U]

Israel came into existence by giving the british mandated Palestine region with an arab majority to the European jews out of guilt.

No matter what your rather uninformed, personal opinion is, on why Israel was given to the Jews, it is a done deal and has been a done deal for almost seven decades. There is thriving country with a successful economy and one of the best armies in the world there now and it's not going anywhere. FYI, no one is going to give California or Australia away either.

with a successful economy

Can we expect to see the Israelis live without sponging off the US then? If not, why not?

one of the best armies in the world

Since the last real war in '67, the only "enemy" the Israeli army has fought has been the Palestinians, which are vastly underarmed in comparison. If the Palestinians were equally armed, I think the Israeli army of today would fare less well than you think they would.

Yes, they went into Lebanon, but it was hardly an equal contest. They didn't do too well last time they tried it either. If I remember correctly, Had to run back home.

More nonsense

Here are a few things you left out

1982-1983....IDF advances and surrounds Beirut and annihilates the Lebanese Arny destorys their air force and threatens Damascus as, the Syrian positions were also annihilated.

Only US interference stopped them from destroying Hezbollah and the PLO

1981/flew unopposed into Iraq, destroyed a nuclear reactor that the US wouldn't

2007,/flew unopposed into Syria, destroyed nuclear reactors built by N Korea paid for by Iran.... SYRIA DIDNT reply.....

2014, destroyed convoy of advanced Russian missiles sent via Iran to Hezbollah and the Iranian general who was supervising the conbiyy thinking Israel would never dare bomb a convoy led by an Iranian general... Israel killed him anyway

2012-2013....placed German computers with a backdoor virus called Stuxnet into Iranian nuclear program software, first learning how far along Iran was, then triggering the virus which destroyed their entire progress and stopped them cold

2015/ will fly unopposed into Iran and destroy all nuclear programs and will then bury the rest of it, making it unreachable for months as all tunnels will be entered by seals and destroyed from inside

2015, will soon come to the aid of a desperate Jordanian king, who is under assault by Isis. Who just took the only border crossing into Syria and now threatens the kingdom..... Israel will do it and then will occupy the eastern banks accomplishing the Balfour Declaration which gave them all of that land anyway

Israel will do all of this and they will do it with the full backing of Egypt and Saudi Arabia....

Israel has the most advanced F-16's in numbers second only to the USA

And the pilots to fly them....

Russia will not supply SS-400's or even one SS-500, to counter the IAF, as they will not risk them while the US is threatening them in Ukraine Poland and the Baltic states

The USA will soon be bombing Iran anyway unless some how you thought all these negotiations with Iran was leading them to disarm. They aren't

They are ready for war, and its on.

Iranian naval vessels are headed for conflict w Egyptian navy and Israel will supply the satellite data for both Saudi and Egyptian movement

[thaibeachlovers]

Israel came into existence by giving the british mandated Palestine region with an arab majority to the European jews out of guilt.

No matter what your rather uninformed, personal opinion is, on why Israel was given to the Jews, it is a done deal and has been a done deal for almost seven decades. There is thriving country with a successful economy and one of the best armies in the world there now and it's not going anywhere. FYI, no one is going to give California or Australia away either.

with a successful economy

Can we expect to see the Israelis live without sponging off the US then? If not, why not?

one of the best armies in the world

Since the last real war in '67, the only "enemy" the Israeli army has fought has been the Palestinians, which are vastly underarmed in comparison. If the Palestinians were equally armed, I think the Israeli army of today would fare less well than you think they would.

Yes, they went into Lebanon, but it was hardly an equal contest. They didn't do too well last time they tried it either. If I remember correctly, Had to run back home.

More nonsense

Here are a few things you left out

1982-1983....IDF advances and surrounds Beirut and annihilates the Lebanese Arny destorys their air force and threatens Damascus as, the Syrian positions were also annihilated.

Only US interference stopped them from destroying Hezbollah and the PLO

1981/flew unopposed into Iraq, destroyed a nuclear reactor that the US wouldn't

2007,/flew unopposed into Syria, destroyed nuclear reactors built by N Korea paid for by Iran.... SYRIA DIDNT reply.....

2014, destroyed convoy of advanced Russian missiles sent via Iran to Hezbollah and the Iranian general who was supervising the conbiyy thinking Israel would never dare bomb a convoy led by an Iranian general... Israel killed him anyway

2012-2013....placed German computers with a backdoor virus called Stuxnet into Iranian nuclear program software, first learning how far along Iran was, then triggering the virus which destroyed their entire progress and stopped them cold

2015/ will fly unopposed into Iran and destroy all nuclear programs and will then bury the rest of it, making it unreachable for months as all tunnels will be entered by seals and destroyed from inside

2015, will soon come to the aid of a desperate Jordanian king, who is under assault by Isis. Who just took the only border crossing into Syria and now threatens the kingdom..... Israel will do it and then will occupy the eastern banks accomplishing the Balfour Declaration which gave them all of that land anyway

Israel will do all of this and they will do it with the full backing of Egypt and Saudi Arabia....

Israel has the most advanced F-16's in numbers second only to the USA

And the pilots to fly them....

Russia will not supply SS-400's or even one SS-500, to counter the IAF, as they will not risk them while the US is threatening them in Ukraine Poland and the Baltic states

The USA will soon be bombing Iran anyway unless some how you thought all these negotiations with Iran was leading them to disarm. They aren't

They are ready for war, and its on.

Iranian naval vessels are headed for conflict w Egyptian navy and Israel will supply the satellite data for both Saudi and Egyptian movement

I already said they went into Lebanon- please read what I say before engaging typing finger. Lebanon, the Claytons army, LOL, The Syrians will never allow them to be a proper army.

None of your other examples is related to the Israeli ARMY, which is what I was talking about.

I'm not holding my breath on Jordan, either.