Utah's firing squad: How does it work?

[roo860]

They could also have celebrity guest shooters once the ratings start to dip.

I would ask for Stevie Wonder!

[jdinasia]

Tep

Wiki is not a great source for contentious topics.

You misused the term ad hominem. If a researcher is attempting to overturn the death penalty there certainly is a conflict of interest involved.

Most importantly, said researcher could not cite one example of an innocent man being lawfully executed.

Just taking one of the cases you present from the Wikipedia entry. A single arson expert states that it was not arson but was "just a fire". Was this expert paid? If so, by whom? He wasn't part of the investigation nor did he see the actual evidence. He made his declaration after viewing video.

BTW, I am not a great fan of the death penalty as it does not seem to discourage crime. I do actually approve of its use in some cases. the debate over incarceration vs the death penalty will never be settled in the US. Not only do some murderers who are set free kill again on the outside, some kill while still in prison.

An interesting article from the UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540632/Convicted-murderers-who-were-set-free-to-kill.html

[hawker9000]

The Death Penalty never works. More you execute more you promote homicides. Compare the States of US and their bill.

Texas is at the top for killing even proven innocents.. *Thaksin made his PHd in extrajuridicial killing where?

The death penalty works perfectly. Nobody executed ever commits a crime again.

Or is actually able to be declared innocent and still be alive at some future date. We've had quite a few high profile cases of overturned guilty verdicts in the UK, since the abolition of the death penalty.

And a whole rash coming forward in USA since DNA has been able to prove a number of innocents executed. The number of people wrongly executed in USA is a stand-alone reason for abolition of capital punishment. Remember, while there is life there is hope.

Really? What's the "number" of "innocents executed"? How big is this "rash" exactly? I know there are a few, but death penalty opponents just love to bloviate about the legions of those supposedly executed and later found innocent, not to mention reaching back into the dark, dim past to about the time of the Inquisition or the Salem witch trials, with a few cases where the defendant had to be released on a technicality. But strangely, they never seem to have current, actual data. When questioned, you get a lot of, "oh, well I meant those sentenced to life who would have been executed" or "sentenced to death but pardoned" or "convicted of a capital crime" or <anything BUT support of the original statement>

I'm much more concerned about the number of true "innocents" executed by repeat offenders back out on the street, and by those who've been sentenced to life imprisonment being paroled instead... If you should want to actually talk numbers, let's compare those numbers.

[Tep]

Tep

Wiki is not a great source for contentious topics.

You misused the term ad hominem. If a researcher is attempting to overturn the death penalty there certainly is a conflict of interest involved.

Most importantly, said researcher could not cite one example of an innocent man being lawfully executed.

Just taking one of the cases you present from the Wikipedia entry. A single arson expert states that it was not arson but was "just a fire". Was this expert paid? If so, by whom? He wasn't part of the investigation nor did he see the actual evidence. He made his declaration after viewing video.

BTW, I am not a great fan of the death penalty as it does not seem to discourage crime. I do actually approve of its use in some cases. the debate over incarceration vs the death penalty will never be settled in the US. Not only do some murderers who are set free kill again on the outside, some kill while still in prison.

An interesting article from the UK

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1540632/Convicted-murderers-who-were-set-free-to-kill.html

You insinuated a correlation between the researchers anti-dealth penalty comment and the conclusions of the research without citing any instance of actual bias. I think ad hominem applies. You also continue to require instances of people being exonerated after execution when the report clearly said that there is no system in place to provide such exoneration. It is hardly surprising if the report does not then provide these instance.

Since there is no system to exonerate innocent people executed, then it is not surprising that anyone can pick holes in claims of innocents who have been executed. I note that in the Wikipedia article there is more than one person listed and more than one country examined. Wikipedia is often a starting point for information. Someone making a serious, meaningful case against the death penalty would be certain to investigate more widely and deeply. i imagine the lawyers working on the Innocence Project will have more rigorous references. For the sake of an argument on TVF and my other commitments at the moment, Wikipedia seemed to be enough to make the point. Maybe if I am between projects and nothing else better to do, I might look deeper. You have piqued my interest with your question and the fact that there does not seem to be anyone formally and officially exonerated after execution. Maybe I will scratch that itch one day.

I do not really see the relevance of the argument concerning the release of people convicted of capital crimes who re-offend to the debate on the death penalty. I acknowledge the need for society to bear the cost and burden of supervising, managing and caring for such people. Executing them as a penny-pinching measure is inhuman and inhumane. The balance between rehabilitation, prevention and punishment is to me, a debate for another day. And a debate that should not involve those who draw benefits from their association with the prison industry. There is also too much unknown about such pathologies in terms of causes and treatment so answers to such questions are difficult. Clearly a sociopath needs incarceration. Perhaps if prisons were not full of people as a result of recreational drug use or in response to tougher laws by posturing, morally bankrupt power brokers, then the criminal justice system might better respond to the requirements of what is probably a very small number of people.

Abolition is the only possible future. it will take the US a while to get there. Once abolished in a particular state, it would be highly unlikely to be re-imposed. But the criminal justice system in the US has so many flaws and issues that this is just one of a number of things for it to deal with. In the meantime I am a huge fan of the people who conceived of and maintain the Innocence Project and any similar initiatives.

[jdinasia]

Tep,

There's no example of an innocent man being lawfully executed in the US.

We are discussing the US.

You started with the claim of 300+ killed that were innocent.

The article / study you cited cannot provide even one case. The man states he is trying to overturn the death penalty. He also states he has no conflict of interest. If you are trying to get a result (death penalty overturned) and research the death penalty bias should be questioned.His results are different than previous studies conducted, they don't show any innocent people executed. They show people not exonerated having sentences commuted from death to lengthy jail terms.

Wikipedia entries are not worth my time to dig through the reference articles cited. You worry about 1 innocent executed, which does cause me some concerns, but not as many concerns as the actual deaths caused by the release of murderers or shifting them from death row into the prison population where they are KNOWN to kill again.

A potential miscarriage of justice which has not been documented in the US in modern times versus the reality of more murders committed. Not exactly a no brainer but not a difficult choice for me