Airbus A320 crashes in France - Germanwings flight with 150 onboard

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Report: France jet audio shows pilot locked out of cockpit
By GREG KELLER and ELAINE GANLEY

SEYNE-LES-ALPES, France (AP) — The first half of Germanwings Flight 9525 was chilling in its normalcy. It took off from Barcelona en route to Duesseldorf, climbing up over the Mediterranean and turning over France. The last communication was a routine request to continue on its route.

Full story: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/812000-report-france-jet-audio-shows-germanwings-pilot-locked-out-of-cockpit/

[zydeco]

The co pilot was new in the compagny ...

daily motion video http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2klooe_crash-d-un-a320-les-premieres-informations-d-une-boite-noire_news?start=0

Can you translate any of that?

[beechguy]

So how do you explain that a mirage was sent out before the plane touched ground without a distress call?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_FRANCE_PLANE_CRASH_THE_LATEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

France's air force says it scrambled a Mirage fighter jet to the area when the Germanwings flight lost radar contact, but arrived too late to help.

An air force spokesman said Wednesday that the Mirage 2000 took off minutes after it became clear that there was a problem and went to the A320's last known location, but arrived after it crashed in the Alps on Tuesday.

Maybe because of this?

4:40 p.m. (1540 GMT, 11:40 a.m. EDT)

Two Americans presumed to have died in the plane crash in the southern French Alps include a U.S. government contractor and her daughter, according to a person close to the family.

The mother was identified as Yvonne Selke of Nokesville, Virginia, a longtime and highly regarded employee of Booz Allen Hamilton Inc. in Washington, and her daughter, whose name wasn't immediately available.

Selke worked with the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon's satellite mapping office, according to the person, who spoke on condition of anonymity because this person wasn't authorized to release information to reporters.

There are reports on a Belgian news site, where a witness to the crash says that he witnessed the plane making a maneuver to avoid the first mountain, and that the fighter jet had to make a maneuver to avoid crashing in the Germanwings plane.

The link is in Dutch language, so feel free to remove it if it's against forum rules.

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/33222/Vliegtuigcrash-Germanwings/article/detail/2264230/2015/03/25/Herder-in-rampgebied-Ik-zag-hoe-vliegtuig-nog-een-berg-kon-ontwijken.dhtml

Reports were that ATC initiated the emergency when they lost radio contact and could see that the plane was descending. It wouldn't be unusual to scramble a fighter to try to find out what's going on. I can think of twice that was done in the US. One is 9/11, and the other when a Lear Jet had sudden decompression, everyone died, and it continued steadily on autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed. IIRC it had the golfer Payne Stewart on board and he died. When the fighter got up there it could see that all of the windows were frozen over and knew, without really knowing, what had happened.

There may have been others that I don't recall.

A civilian on the ground could mistake a fighter turning abruptly to avoid a mountain for turning due to the airliners. Most reports I've read and seen say that the fighter arrived after the crash. Preliminary reports are so unreliable...

There's just so much that we don't know yet.

So an emergency is initiated, a pilot gets in his Mirage, gets in the air and has to make a maneuver to avoid the Airbus near the crash site. And all this in less than 8 minutes?

I think you are placing far too much credence on that gibberish in Google Translate. At one point, they state a phone has crashed. No telling how many other incorrect words were used, not to mention words out of context or misplaced within the sentences.

[Anthony5]

So how do you explain that a mirage was sent out before the plane touched ground without a distress call?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_FRANCE_PLANE_CRASH_THE_LATEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

France's air force says it scrambled a Mirage fighter jet to the area when the Germanwings flight lost radar contact, but arrived too late to help.

An air force spokesman said Wednesday that the Mirage 2000 took off minutes after it became clear that there was a problem and went to the A320's last known location, but arrived after it crashed in the Alps on Tuesday.

Maybe because of this?

4:40 p.m. (1540 GMT, 11:40 a.m. EDT)

Two Americans presumed to have died in the plane crash in the southern French Alps include a U.S. government contractor and her daughter, according to a person close to the family.

The mother was identified as Yvonne Selke of Nokesville, Virginia, a longtime and highly regarded employee of Booz Allen Hamilton Inc. in Washington, and her daughter, whose name wasn't immediately available.

Selke worked with the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon's satellite mapping office, according to the person, who spoke on condition of anonymity because this person wasn't authorized to release information to reporters.

There are reports on a Belgian news site, where a witness to the crash says that he witnessed the plane making a maneuver to avoid the first mountain, and that the fighter jet had to make a maneuver to avoid crashing in the Germanwings plane.

The link is in Dutch language, so feel free to remove it if it's against forum rules.

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/33222/Vliegtuigcrash-Germanwings/article/detail/2264230/2015/03/25/Herder-in-rampgebied-Ik-zag-hoe-vliegtuig-nog-een-berg-kon-ontwijken.dhtml

Reports were that ATC initiated the emergency when they lost radio contact and could see that the plane was descending. It wouldn't be unusual to scramble a fighter to try to find out what's going on. I can think of twice that was done in the US. One is 9/11, and the other when a Lear Jet had sudden decompression, everyone died, and it continued steadily on autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed. IIRC it had the golfer Payne Stewart on board and he died. When the fighter got up there it could see that all of the windows were frozen over and knew, without really knowing, what had happened.

There may have been others that I don't recall.

A civilian on the ground could mistake a fighter turning abruptly to avoid a mountain for turning due to the airliners. Most reports I've read and seen say that the fighter arrived after the crash. Preliminary reports are so unreliable...

There's just so much that we don't know yet.

So an emergency is initiated, a pilot gets in his Mirage, gets in the air and has to make a maneuver to avoid the Airbus near the crash site. And all this in less than 8 minutes?

I think you are placing far too much credence on that gibberish in Google Translate. At one point, they state a phone has crashed. No telling how many other incorrect words were used, not to mention words out of context or misplaced within the sentences.

I can read Dutch, so what Google translate makes of it is beside the point. On the AP news site was also written that the minister of transport confirmed that fighter yet was sent BEFORE the plane touched the ground.

How is this possible in less than 8 minutes? Are mirage pilots now sitting in their planes 24 hours a day ready to take off?

[manarak]

I can read Dutch, so what Google translate makes of it is beside the point. On the AP news site was also written that the minister of transport confirmed that fighter yet was sent BEFORE the plane touched the ground.

How is this possible in less than 8 minutes? Are mirage pilots now sitting in their planes 24 hours a day ready to take off?

yes of course, what do you think?

France has always at least 2 interceptors ready to scramble, probably 4.

That's for mainland France, there are more in French territories.

The interceptor could also have caused an explosion like sound when it accelerated above mach 1

Edited March 26, 2015 by manarak

[manarak]

Again, what are the names of the pilots? We've already had bios and interviews with friends and families of the passengers. But I haven't seen anything on the pilots and flight crew. Why? Again, info about the Malaysian plane that disappeared was all over the media. Just one more thing that makes me wonder what they might be trying to cover up.

This is typical in Europe as I said earlier.

Europeans usually get their news from foreign websites on the internet.

Local officials and news agencies are usually slow to release details, I have no idea why.

A spokesman for the French air investigation bureau, the BEA, said that “usable” material had been extracted from the black box cockpit voice recorder found at the crash site, in the French Alps.

He said it covered the entire flight but would not say what conversations, if any, between the pilots had been captured on the recording, nor what language they had been conducted in.

Neither of the plane’s two pilots have been named

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/mar/26/one-pilot-locked-out-germanwings-planes-cockpit-4u9525-claims-new-york-times

[manarak]

An Australian A320 pilot, who declined to be named, said the locked flight deck of the aircraft could be entered using an emergency code on a keypad. In the case of the pilot flying the aircraft being incapacitated, the door will automatically open after a set period of time if the correct code is entered.

However, in the event a pilot flying the aircraft does not want the other pilot to enter the flight deck, the one in the cockpit has the ability to block entry if he reacts before the door would be opened automatically.

"If the person on the other side of the door says 'no', you can't get in," the Australian pilot said.

http://www.smh.com.au/business/aviation/germanwings-plane-crash-a320-pilot-says-copilot-can-be-locked-out-of-cockpit-20150326-1m82vb.html

ouch - that adds some piece of information

[bkkjames]

Maybe the mirage shot it down? Unlikely I know but who knows what really happened

[Aforek]

The co pilot was new in the compagny ...

daily motion video http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2klooe_crash-d-un-a320-les-premieres-informations-d-une-boite-noire_news?start=0

Can you translate any of that?

Nothing very important: they show the first black box they found, and the man explains that in a few minutes they can't say who is speaking ( pilot or copilot ) ; they show the plane's path and explain that they are looking for the second black box to try to explain why the plane has lost altitude while keeping its course

for the copilot I have read it somewhere else : he entered the compagny at the end of 2013 and had only several hundred flight hours experience ( his nationality is not yet known )

[Mosha]

One pilot locked out, leaving only one person in the pilot's cabin? There is always supposed to be two crew members in the cabin, I understand.

It is an absolute requirement that there are at least two in the cockpit during takeoff and landing phase. During flight there is not unless they have pee bottles in the cockpit.

A friend who is an ATC tells me DLH rules state 2 people in the cockpit at all times. So if a pilot needs a toilet break, one of the cabin crew sits in the cockpit.

Edit to add, the guy inside the cockpit, assuming he was alone or disabled the stand in crew member., can set the lock to deny access to the code entered from outside the cockpit.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Mosha

[realfunster]

Passenger names released but not the PILOTS. PILOT Banging on Door to get back in. Door was locked and code disabled 3 modes. Unlocked,Locked with code and Locked code disabled. First thing out of USA NOT TERRORISM.......So basically when the Pilots names are released you can make a good guess

on the pilots religion. and bets ?

Who knows? But the failure to come out with the names raises suspicion of a cover up with me. Why not just come out and give the names? It would avoid all this speculation. Sooner or later, they're going to come out any way.

The NTSB panellist on CNN indicated that if reports on the voice recorder are accurate then the case will likely move under criminal jurisdiction so police will take over the lead role from the aviation agencies. This would probably result in tightening of information releases due to possible future criminal proceedings.

[EyesWideOpen]

Interesting that in recent times the greater danger to the lives of the passengers

is coming from the cockpit, rather than a deranged Muslim with bombs strapped

to him. The failure of the airline to name the pilots is fascinating, just a matter of

time till that come out. Do not see the point of delaying it. Airline manufacturers

need to start thinking long and hard about how to protect the plane from rogue

pilots. Am sure what happened on Malaysian Air 370 started this process......

Perhaps some sort of satellite based override system where the control of the

plane could be external. Am sure professional pilots would not be happy with that........

[Scott]

Numerous troll posts and replies have been removed.

--speculation as to the religion of the pilots will not be permitted.

--the topic isn't about 9/11

[JockPieandBeans]

Passenger names released but not the PILOTS. PILOT Banging on Door to get back in. Door was locked and code disabled 3 modes. Unlocked,Locked with code and Locked code disabled. First thing out of USA NOT TERRORISM.......So basically when the Pilots names are released you can make a good guess

on the pilots religion. and bets ?

Who knows? But the failure to come out with the names raises suspicion of a cover up with me. Why not just come out and give the names? It would avoid all this speculation. Sooner or later, they're going to come out any way.

The NTSB panellist on CNN indicated that if reports on the voice recorder are accurate then the case will likely move under criminal jurisdiction so police will take over the lead role from the aviation agencies. This would probably result in tightening of information releases due to possible future criminal proceedings.

A tightening of information release in case it moves to a criminal investigation ??

I will save the time and money. If indeed, this was the result of a rogue pilot, for whatever reason. He is smashed all over a mountainside and no investigation is going to change that.

What part of his FUBAR body is going to be subject to these criminal proceedings ?

The names have not been released for a reason. That reason is nothing to do with criminal proceedings.

[manarak]

deafening silence from the authorities...

what they do know the public wants to know too:

- what did the interceptor's pilot see, if anything?

- what has been heard so far on the CVR's tape?

- what are the names of the pilots?

calls to not speculate are uncalled for as long as the authorities don't inform the public in a timely manner.

[Chicog]

deafening silence from the authorities...

what they do know the public wants to know too:

- what did the interceptor's pilot see, if anything?

- what has been heard so far on the CVR's tape?

- what are the names of the pilots?

calls to not speculate are uncalled for as long as the authorities don't inform the public in a timely manner.

Can I ask you why you think they should be forced to publish out of context information until they are satisfied that they have a complete account of what happened?

[zydeco]

deafening silence from the authorities...

what they do know the public wants to know too:

- what did the interceptor's pilot see, if anything?

- what has been heard so far on the CVR's tape?

- what are the names of the pilots?

calls to not speculate are uncalled for as long as the authorities don't inform the public in a timely manner.

Can I ask you why you think they should be forced to publish out of context information until they are satisfied that they have a complete account of what happened?

The bigger question is why are the media cooperating in the information blackout? It's one thing for governments to suppress info. They do it all the time. But reporters should ask questions, and if the governments refuse to give answers, then the reporters should go out, work their sources, and find answers. Because that is what reporters are SUPPOSED TO DO!

[tifino]

there's a mountain of evidence, but it's not yet plane to see

[manarak]

deafening silence from the authorities...

what they do know the public wants to know too:

- what did the interceptor's pilot see, if anything?

- what has been heard so far on the CVR's tape?

- what are the names of the pilots?

calls to not speculate are uncalled for as long as the authorities don't inform the public in a timely manner.

Can I ask you why you think they should be forced to publish out of context information until they are satisfied that they have a complete account of what happened?

The names are just a fact. They don't need any context.

Same as saying the captain had 10.000 hours and the plane 47.000 cycles.

These are just facts and don't need to be interpreted.

When details aren't published, it's usually not to allow authorities to be "satisfied that they have a complete account of what happened".

[manarak]

deafening silence from the authorities...

what they do know the public wants to know too:

- what did the interceptor's pilot see, if anything?

- what has been heard so far on the CVR's tape?

- what are the names of the pilots?

calls to not speculate are uncalled for as long as the authorities don't inform the public in a timely manner.

Can I ask you why you think they should be forced to publish out of context information until they are satisfied that they have a complete account of what happened?

The bigger question is why are the media cooperating in the information blackout? It's one thing for governments to suppress info. They do it all the time. But reporters should ask questions, and if the governments refuse to give answers, then the reporters should go out, work their sources, and find answers. Because that is what reporters are SUPPOSED TO DO!

at least the French media have a long tradition of self-censorship if it is feared that the information might disturb the "republican pact".

For example often they will refrain from publishing photos of criminals and their names if they don't sound French...

"Republican Pact" is a concept that is used very often but there is no definition. "Politically correct" would be the closest English definition.

And yes, it definitely is a lame excuse for the media for distorting truth and not doing their job.

P.S. German forums are full of posts wondering about why the names of the pilots haven't been released - Germany too wants to know.

P.P.S. a German news source which I consider not very trustworthy reported that CNN started to ask questions about the identities of the pilots, but Lufthansa refused to disclose them. Rumor has it that both pilots were under 30 years of age. Still according to rumors, a major pilot's trade union is pressuring Lufthansa to not release the names of the pilots - it seems pretty unrealistic to me that it can be kept a secret forever, why would the trade union want the names be kept a secret?

http://www.kriegsberichterstattung.com/id/3931/Germanwings-Absturz-CNN-fragt-warum-Pilotennamen-verschwiegen-werden/

Edited March 26, 2015 by manarak

[Chicog]

deafening silence from the authorities...

what they do know the public wants to know too:

- what did the interceptor's pilot see, if anything?

- what has been heard so far on the CVR's tape?

- what are the names of the pilots?

calls to not speculate are uncalled for as long as the authorities don't inform the public in a timely manner.

Can I ask you why you think they should be forced to publish out of context information until they are satisfied that they have a complete account of what happened?

The bigger question is why are the media cooperating in the information blackout? It's one thing for governments to suppress info. They do it all the time. But reporters should ask questions, and if the governments refuse to give answers, then the reporters should go out, work their sources, and find answers. Because that is what reporters are SUPPOSED TO DO!

It might be a bigger question, but it's not relevant.

We aren't dealing with the FAA here, who are essentially in the airline and manufacturers' pockets.

The facts will come out in this case but, as in every single air crash investigation, they will take their time and make sure they have their facts straight.

As opposed to some of the witless journalists and reporters I have seen since this plane went down.

[manarak]

According to German media (many reliable sources), the co-pilot lived in Montabaur with his parents and also has a flat in Düsseldorf.

No mention of nationality or name.

If the information is relevant, it's just a question of time before the German media spit it out.

Edited March 26, 2015 by manarak

[zydeco]

deafening silence from the authorities...

what they do know the public wants to know too:

- what did the interceptor's pilot see, if anything?

- what has been heard so far on the CVR's tape?

- what are the names of the pilots?

calls to not speculate are uncalled for as long as the authorities don't inform the public in a timely manner.

Can I ask you why you think they should be forced to publish out of context information until they are satisfied that they have a complete account of what happened?

The bigger question is why are the media cooperating in the information blackout? It's one thing for governments to suppress info. They do it all the time. But reporters should ask questions, and if the governments refuse to give answers, then the reporters should go out, work their sources, and find answers. Because that is what reporters are SUPPOSED TO DO!

It might be a bigger question, but it's not relevant.

We aren't dealing with the FAA here, who are essentially in the airline and manufacturers' pockets.

The facts will come out in this case but, as in every single air crash investigation, they will take their time and make sure they have their facts straight.

As opposed to some of the witless journalists and reporters I have seen since this plane went down.

A press free of the shackles of government is about the most relevant thing there is. If a room full of people keep asking for something as basic to this story as the pilots' names and governments and companies refuse to give it, that is not context, not getting facts straight. That is suppression. (And, no, it doesn't have anything directly to do with speculation about somebody's religion. It might. But it could also be information worth having about the pilots' mental state, financial arrears, blackmail, or any number of issues that governments and companies like to cover up.) Take their time? Is that measured in cosmological time or geologic time? I'm sure the French "investigators" would prefer either over a human timescale.

Edited March 26, 2015 by zydeco

[Aforek]

Press conference in 45 minutes ( 11.30 GMT )

[Commerce]

there's a mountain of evidence, but it's not yet plane to see

Was that supposed to be funny?

[Aforek]

Press conference: the co pilot ( german nationality ) was alone in the cockpit, he was still alive ( breath sounds ) and never responded the controllers and the big knocks on the door

as soon as the commandant left the cockpit, he actionned the autopilot to lower the plane

so, suicide or terrorism ? it was a deliberate action, not an accident

[zydeco]

Press conference: the co pilot ( german nationality ) was alone in the cockpit, he was still alive ( breath sounds ) and never responded the controllers and the big knocks on the door

as soon as the commandant left the cockpit, he actionned the autopilot to lower the plane

so, suicide or terrorism ? it was a deliberate action, not an accident

At least this clears the good name of the chief pilot. Did they give names?

[Aforek]

no, they say names will come from Germany

[bkkjames]

maybe he had a stroke?

[zydeco]

Name of the perp is Andreas Lubitz.