Airbus A320 crashes in France - Germanwings flight with 150 onboard

[MJP]

Yeah, I just looked at that. Air France 447 descent rate was about 10,000ft to 11,000ft per minute. So 31,000ft over eight minutes is way too slow for an aerodynamic stall.

Yeah, in a stall it should come down that fast which is about 2 miles or 3 kms per minute. That's a really fast vertical velocity. It also wouldn't go very far.

New and corrected news will probably change this, but everything I've read so far makes me wonder if the real pilots were in control. This sketchy news reminds me of 9/11 when the planes were simply flown by novices down and into something intentionally.

Again, that perception will probably change.

Pitot tube icing?

[Tywais]

PS. I've read twice now that the crash site is at 2,000 feet elev., and if true they at some point descended more than radar saw.

The below is the flight envelop. The 2000 feet I saw on a diagram was the width of of a mountain it passed over for scaling purposes not height. Appears to be a controlled continuous descent just after reaching peak. Pitot tube icing and auto controls? No distress call and no emergency squawk. The emergency call was from the ATC controller themselves following protocol and reached stage 3 which is the highest distress level.

[Maestro]

The regional paper 'LeDauphine' reports they already found one blackbox.

Source: http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/558654-airbus-a320-crashed-southern-france-11.html#post8914521

I looked up the newspaper that was mentioned, Le Dauphiné, hoping to find that it would mention which of the two black boxes was found, but it does not.

[Maestro]

Germanwings plane 4U 9525 crashes in French Alps - no survivors

13 minutes ago

A Germanwings plane carrying 150 people has crashed in the French Alps on its way from Barcelona to Duesseldorf.

The Airbus A320 - flight 4U 9525 - went down between Digne and Barcelonnette. There are no survivors, officials say.

The "black box" flight recorder has been found, the French interior minister says. The cause of the crash is not known and the plane did not send a distress signal.

Read more: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-32030270

-- BBC 2015-03-24

[NeverSure]

Yeah, I just looked at that. Air France 447 descent rate was about 10,000ft to 11,000ft per minute. So 31,000ft over eight minutes is way too slow for an aerodynamic stall.

Yeah, in a stall it should come down that fast which is about 2 miles or 3 kms per minute. That's a really fast vertical velocity. It also wouldn't go very far.

New and corrected news will probably change this, but everything I've read so far makes me wonder if the real pilots were in control. This sketchy news reminds me of 9/11 when the planes were simply flown by novices down and into something intentionally.

Again, that perception will probably change.

Pitot tube icing?

No, weather severe clear and they have other ways of gauging airspeed. Those pilots could fly that by the seat of their pants if they had to, assuming engines and controls were all working.

It's just an airplane, LOL.

[NeverSure]

The below is the flight envelop. The 2000 feet I saw on a diagram was the width of of a mountain it passed over for scaling purposes not height. Appears to be a controlled continuous descent just after reaching peak. Pitot tube icing and auto controls? No distress call and no emergency squawk. The emergency call was from the ATC controller themselves following protocol and reached stage 3 which is the highest distress level.

Naw, see above. They would have known they were descending and they sure would have known they were going to hit that mountain long before they did, all other things such as consciousness and airplane being OK.

For any who don't know, you can see exactly what the plane is going to hit, or alternatively miss by watching it in the windshield. If you're going to miss it by going over it, it will be dropping in the windshield. If you're going to hit it, it will be stationary in the windshield. If you're going below it, it will be rising in the windshield. Same with left and right, used to know if you're landing right down the white line.

Whatever you can lock into one spot in the windshield and keep it there is right where you're going. Follow that to its logical conclusion and you splatter the windshield right into it. That's how they would land it right on the numbers in a descent, and right down the white line.

Edited March 24, 2015 by NeverSure

[balo]

Sounds a bit like the aerodynamic stall that brought down Air France 447.

what makes you think that?

31,000ft in eight minutes, no distress call.

If you look at the flight path on the radar it had a steady but rapid descent all the way down , it never changed course. So I think we can rule out stalls like that. Besides we have an eye witness that saw the plane coming in over the mountains seconds before it crashed. According to him the plane looked normal, no damage on it.

[Tywais]

The below is the flight envelop. The 2000 feet I saw on a diagram was the width of of a mountain it passed over for scaling purposes not height. Appears to be a controlled continuous descent just after reaching peak. Pitot tube icing and auto controls? No distress call and no emergency squawk. The emergency call was from the ATC controller themselves following protocol and reached stage 3 which is the highest distress level.

Naw, see above. They would have known they were descending and they sure would have known they were going to hit that mountain long before they did, all other things such as consciousness and airplane being OK.

I meant the static ports which is part of the pitot-static system. Iced over or blocked, they would not see a change in altitude nor a descent rate, they would be locked. As for seeing or not seeing the mountain, at that rate of descent and altitude, it would depend on their viewing angle and from it starting at that high altitude it may not be so obvious to them until too late. On the other hand, I would assume they would have ground proximity radar but not certain on that model. But, the FDR will have the sensor info so will see what comes out of that.

[NeverSure]

Naw, see above. They would have known they were descending and they sure would have known they were going to hit that mountain long before they did, all other things such as consciousness and airplane being OK.

I meant the static ports which is part of the pitot-static system. Iced over or blocked, they would not see a change in altitude nor a descent rate, they would be locked. As for seeing or not seeing the mountain, at that rate of descent and altitude, it would depend on their viewing angle and from it starting at that high altitude it may not be so obvious to them until too late. On the other hand, I would assume they would have ground proximity radar but not certain on that model. But, the FDR will have the sensor info so will see what comes out of that.

I honestly believe they would have known they were descending, considering the visibility and all. For one thing the plane would have accelerated greatly when the nose was lowered, or they would have needed to greatly reduce power, which they can hear. Also they would have heard the increased wind noise over the airframe if power wasn't reduced. From that altitude they would have seen things on the ground getting bigger long before they got as low as they were.

The plane wouldn't descend that rapidly without putting the nose down and they could see the ground coming up. They could have seen that mountain from more than 20, and perhaps even 50 miles out and they would have known they were dead on course to hit it from at least ten miles out.

It's just an airplane, LOL, and the first airplanes had no instruments. It was all seat of the pants, pilotage and dead reckoning. I simply don't think you could come down from 38,000 to 7,000 feet in any amount of time in clear weather without realizing it. Everything simply looks so incredibly different from the two altitudes. and there are all of the other sensory inputs.

Cheers.

[JoeLing]

Maybe it hit something in the air and a part of the tale or wing fell off? This sounds like a very unusual accident. And the pilots did not have time to contact ATC.

Only speculations but we can not rule out terror.

It kept flying for a very long time and distance after it squawked an emergency. I don't think the plane broke up at the beginning.

Nothing that we hear so far sounds like anything that a real pilot would do.

This is at least the fourth post where you keep mentioning "Real Pilots"

Are you suggesting the pilots where fake?

Or why do you have to emphasis what "Real Pilots" would do on every post?

[NeverSure]

Maybe it hit something in the air and a part of the tale or wing fell off? This sounds like a very unusual accident. And the pilots did not have time to contact ATC.

Only speculations but we can not rule out terror.

It kept flying for a very long time and distance after it squawked an emergency. I don't think the plane broke up at the beginning.

Nothing that we hear so far sounds like anything that a real pilot would do.

This is at least the fourth post where you keep mentioning "Real Pilots"

Are you suggesting the pilots where fake?

Or why do you have to emphasis what "Real Pilots" would do on every post?

Because a part of me wonders if the plane was hijacked and the pilots taken out. Amateurs could do this stuff. Or a mentally messed up pilot could do it but not in his right mind.

There's also the possibility that the pilots lost consciousness but I don't see how yet. There is so much redundancy in that system - buzzers, lights, oxygen masks dropping down - that it's hard to accept that yet.

Edited March 24, 2015 by NeverSure

[NeverSure]

The NYT is reporting that the black box they found is the cockpit voice recorder. That will be more than interesting and maybe very helpful. LINK

[MJP]

Naw, see above. They would have known they were descending and they sure would have known they were going to hit that mountain long before they did, all other things such as consciousness and airplane being OK.

I meant the static ports which is part of the pitot-static system. Iced over or blocked, they would not see a change in altitude nor a descent rate, they would be locked. As for seeing or not seeing the mountain, at that rate of descent and altitude, it would depend on their viewing angle and from it starting at that high altitude it may not be so obvious to them until too late. On the other hand, I would assume they would have ground proximity radar but not certain on that model. But, the FDR will have the sensor info so will see what comes out of that.

I honestly believe they would have known they were descending, considering the visibility and all. For one thing the plane would have accelerated greatly when the nose was lowered, or they would have needed to greatly reduce power, which they can hear. Also they would have heard the increased wind noise over the airframe if power wasn't reduced. From that altitude they would have seen things on the ground getting bigger long before they got as low as they were.

The plane wouldn't descend that rapidly without putting the nose down and they could see the ground coming up. They could have seen that mountain from more than 20, and perhaps even 50 miles out and they would have known they were dead on course to hit it from at least ten miles out.

It's just an airplane, LOL, and the first airplanes had no instruments. It was all seat of the pants, pilotage and dead reckoning. I simply don't think you could come down from 38,000 to 7,000 feet in any amount of time in clear weather without realizing it. Everything simply looks so incredibly different from the two altitudes. and there are all of the other sensory inputs.

Cheers.

Air France 447 descended at 10,000 ft/min with the nose up. The co-pilot was pulling back on the stick without anyone realising this causing a stall all the way down.

Google "Chaos in the cockpit."

[NeverSure]

Air France 447 descended at 10,000 ft/min with the nose up. The co-pilot was pulling back on the stick without anyone realising this causing a stall all the way down.

Google "Chaos in the cockpit."

Yes, that's a common mistake. When the wings stall the plane "falls". Human nature wants to pull the nose up to stop the steep descent and climb when the correct thing to do is push the nose down and gain speed over the wings and then only once it's flying again pull the nose up.

I don't think these guys stalled for reasons stated earlier. I still can't figure out what happened. How do two experienced pilots descend 30,000 feet and fly right into a mountain in severe clear air?

Edited March 24, 2015 by NeverSure

[chooka]

Can't imagine what the poor people were going through, apparently it descended for 8 minutes before impact. It must of felt like living in hell for an eternity.

Two Australians from Melbourne have been confirmed as victims.

[wooloomooloo]

Horrible way to go and my reminder that life's short and sometimes shorter than it should have been. It's nice to go places and have fun.

[khaosai]

Sounds a bit like the aerodynamic stall that brought down Air France 447.

MJP, such a stall should bring it down hard and fast without staying in the air so long, going so far, or showing such a "normal" descent rate.

I don't know what happened.

If as has been mentioned it lost cabin pressure, the oxygen masks should have dropped down to the pilots and passengers automatically. The pilots should have had visual and audible warnings. The pilots have a minute or two before they lose consciousness which is plenty of time to see and hear the warnings and to don the masks which should be already hanging in front of them.

Also if the plane was climbing or level, the trim might have kept it from going into such a descent even without pilots. Usually it takes some muscle, trim change, or autopilot to get the nose down like that especially under power. I dunno?

Nothing makes sense to me yet, but I suppose the news will continue to be corrected and more will become available.

Oxygen masks don't drop down to the pilots.

The pilot needs to remove the oxygen mask from its secure location by his/hers side and then put it on properly. That is the first and most important step if a rapid depressurisation occurs.

[NeverSure]

Sounds a bit like the aerodynamic stall that brought down Air France 447.

MJP, such a stall should bring it down hard and fast without staying in the air so long, going so far, or showing such a "normal" descent rate.

I don't know what happened.

If as has been mentioned it lost cabin pressure, the oxygen masks should have dropped down to the pilots and passengers automatically. The pilots should have had visual and audible warnings. The pilots have a minute or two before they lose consciousness which is plenty of time to see and hear the warnings and to don the masks which should be already hanging in front of them.

Also if the plane was climbing or level, the trim might have kept it from going into such a descent even without pilots. Usually it takes some muscle, trim change, or autopilot to get the nose down like that especially under power. I dunno?

Nothing makes sense to me yet, but I suppose the news will continue to be corrected and more will become available.

Oxygen masks don't drop down to the pilots.

The pilot needs to remove the oxygen mask from its secure location by his/hers side and then put it on properly. That is the first and most important step if a rapid depressurisation occurs.

I suppose it depends on the model of aircraft.

When the aircraft is above flight level 350 (35,000 feet) one of the pilots is supposed to have a mask on. This plane was at flight level 380.

[khaosai]

Hi NeverSure,

you may well be right but I have never seen an oxygen mask on a modern day airliner drop down within the flight deck.

I personally have never been required to wear an oxygen mask above 35000ft unless of course the aircraft has suffered an uncontrollable pressurisation problem. Some airlines may mandate that as a policy but I would be confident that most don't at that sort of flight level.

Thoughts with all affected by this tragedy.

[webfact]

Plane crash kills 150 people in French Alps; Europe in shock
By GREG KELLER and ANGELA CHARLTON

SEYNE-LES-ALPES, France (AP) — A black box recovered from the scene and pulverized pieces of debris strewn across Alpine mountainsides held clues to what caused a German jetliner to take an unexplained eight-minute dive Tuesday midway through a flight from Spain to Germany, apparently killing all 150 people on board.

The victims included two babies, two opera singers and 16 German high school students and their teachers returning from an exchange trip to Spain. It was the deadliest crash in France in decades.

The Airbus A320 operated by Germanwings, a budget subsidiary of Lufthansa, was less than an hour from landing in Duesseldorf on a flight from Barcelona when it unexpectedly went into a rapid descent. The pilots sent out no distress call and had lost radio contact with their control center, France's aviation authority said, deepening the mystery.

While investigators searched through debris from Flight 9525 on steep and desolate slopes, families across Europe reeled with shock and grief. Sobbing relatives at both airports were led away by airport workers and crisis counselors.

"The site is a picture of horror. The grief of the families and friends is immeasurable," German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier said after being flown over the crash scene. "We must now stand together. We are united in our great grief."

It took investigators hours to reach the site, led by mountain guides to the craggy ravine in the southern French Alps, not far from the Italian border and the French Riviera.

Video shot from a helicopter and aired by BFM TV showed rescuers walking in the crevices of a rocky mountainside scattered with plane parts. Photos of the crash site showed white flecks of debris across a mountain and larger airplane body sections with windows. A helicopter crew that landed briefly in the area saw no signs of life, French officials said.

"Everything is pulverized. The largest pieces of debris are the size of a small car. No one can access the site from the ground," Gilbert Sauvan, president of the general council, Alpes-de-Haute-Provence, told The Associated Press.

"This is pretty much the worst thing you can imagine," said Bodo Klimpel, mayor of the German town of Haltern, rent with sorrow after losing 16 tenth graders and their two teachers.

The White House and the airline chief said there was no sign that terrorism was involved, and German Chancellor Angela Merkel urged reporters not to speculate on the cause.

"We still don't know much beyond the bare information on the flight, and there should be no speculation on the cause of the crash," she said in Berlin. "All that will be investigated thoroughly."

Lufthansa Vice President Heike Birlenbach told reporters in Barcelona that for now "we say it is an accident."

In Washington, the White House said American officials were in contact with their French, Spanish and German counterparts. "There is no indication of a nexus to terrorism at this time," said U.S. National Security Council spokeswoman Bernadette Meehan.

Merkel, French President Francois Hollande and Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy were to visit the site Wednesday.

French Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said a black box had been located at the crash site and "will be immediately investigated." He did not say whether it was the flight data recorder or the cockpit voice recorder.

The two devices — actually orange boxes designed to survive extreme heat and pressure — should provide investigators with a second-by-second timeline of the plane's flight.

The voice recorder takes audio feeds from four microphones within the cockpit and records all the conversations between the pilots, air traffic controllers as well as any noises heard in the cockpit. The flight data recorder captures 25 hours' worth of information on the position and condition of almost every major part in a plane.

Germanwings is low-cost carrier owned by Lufthansa, Germany's biggest airline, and serves mostly European destinations. Tuesday's crash was its first involving passenger deaths since it began operating in 2002. The Germanwings logo, normally maroon and yellow, was blacked out on its Twitter feed.

Lufthansa CEO Carsten Spohr called it the "blackest day of our company's 60-year history." He insisted, however, that flying "remains after this terrible day the safest mode of transport."

Germanwings said 144 passengers and six crew members were on board. Authorities said 67 Germans were believed among the victims, including the 16 high school students and two opera singers, as well as many Spaniards, two Australians and one person each from the Netherlands, Turkey and Denmark.

Contralto Maria Radner was returning to Germany with her husband and baby after performing in Wagner's "Siegfried," according to Barcelona's Gran Teatre del Liceu. Bass baritone Oleg Bryjak had appeared in the same opera, according to the opera house in Duesseldorf.

The plane left Barcelona Airport at 10:01 a.m. and had reached its cruising height of 38,000 feet when it suddenly went into an eight-minute descent to just over 6,000 feet, Germanwings CEO Thomas Winkelmann told reporters in Cologne.

"We cannot say at the moment why our colleague went into the descent, and so quickly, and without previously consulting air traffic control," said Germanwings' director of flight operations, Stefan-Kenan Scheib.

At 10:30, the plane lost radio contact with the control center but "never declared a distress alert," Eric Heraud of the French Civil Aviation Authority told the AP.

The plane crashed at an altitude of about 6,550 feet (2,000 meters) at Meolans-Revels, near the popular ski resort of Pra Loup. The site is 430 miles (700 kilometers) south-southeast of Paris.

"It was a deafening noise. I thought it was an avalanche, although it sounded slightly different. It was short noise and lasted just a few seconds," Sandrine Boisse, the president of the Pra Loup tourism office, told the AP.

Authorities faced a long and difficult search-and-recovery operation because of the area's remoteness. The weather, which had been clear earlier in the day, deteriorated Tuesday afternoon, with a chilly rain falling. Snow coated nearby mountaintops.

French Interior Ministry spokesman Pierre-Henry Brandet said the crash site covered several acres, with thousands of pieces of debris, "which leads us to think the impact must have been extremely violent at very high speed."

Search operations were suspended overnight and were to resume at daybreak, though about 10 gendarmes remained in the desolate ravine to guard the crash site, authorities said.

Winkelmann said the pilot, whom he did not name, had more than 10 years' experience working for Germanwings and its parent airline Lufthansa.

Florian Graenzdoerffer Lufthansa Spokesman for North Rhine Westphalia said the company had to cancel seven flights out of Dusseldorf because a number of crew members felt they were unfit to fly following news of the accident.

"I can't tell you any details because this is a personal decision and in our business we have an agreement if a crew feels unfit to fly ... then we respect this," Graenzdoerffer said.

The aircraft was delivered to Lufthansa in 1991, had approximately 58,300 flight hours in some 46,700 flights, Airbus said. The plane underwent a routine check in Duesseldorf on Monday, and its last regular full check took place in the summer of 2013.

The A320 plane is a workhorse of modern aviation, with a good safety record.

The last time a passenger jet crashed in France was the 2000 Concorde accident, which left 113 dead.
___

Charlton reported from Paris. Associated Press writers Lori Hinnant, Thomas Adamson and Elaine Ganley in Paris; Claude Paris in Seyne-les-Alpes; David McHugh in Frankfurt; Geir Moulson and David Rising in Berlin; Frank Augstein in Duesseldorf; Al Clendenning in Madrid; Joe Wilson in Barcelona; Kirsten Grieshaber in Haltern, Germany, and AP Airlines writer Scott Mayerowitz in New York contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-03-25

[webfact]

16 German high school students among plane crash victims
By KIRSTEN GRIESHABER

HALTERN, Germany (AP) — A stunned German town mourned 16 students who went down aboard Germanwings Flight 9525 on their way home Tuesday from a Spanish exchange, while the opera world grieved for two singers who were returning from performing in Barcelona — one of them with her baby.

"This is surely the blackest day in the history of our town," a visibly shaken Mayor Bodo Klimpel said after the western town of Haltern was shocked by news that 16 students from the local high school and two teachers had been on the plane. They had just spent a week in Spain.

Some hugged, cried and laid flowers in front of the Joseph Koenig High School, where the 10th graders had studied, and lit candles on its steps.

"This is pretty much the worst thing you can imagine," Klimpel said at a hastily called news conference.

An announcement was made to students Tuesday lunchtime that "that we were all free now but we shouldn't be happy," said Christopher Schweigmann, 16, a 10th-grade student who said he lost two good friends. Students went to a service Tuesday evening, and "everyone was in tears in the church," he said.

"It's impossible to believe that they all won't be there anymore in the coming days," he said.

Crisis counselors were at the school soon after the crash.

"I think many haven't really grasped what happened, and I think the grief will come a bit later for many," counselor Ingo Janzen said.

"The town is totally silent, nothing is happening anymore in town, everyone is like petrified," said resident Gerd Schwarz, 64.

The town of 38,000 lies about 80 kilometers (50 miles) northeast of the plane's destination, Duesseldorf.

Officials confirmed that the school group was among the 150 people on board the plane. Among the victims were also two opera singers, business travelers en route to a trade fair in Cologne and two babies.

A total of 67 Germans, many Spaniards, two Australians, and one person each from the Netherlands, Turkey, and Denmark were among the victims, according to their respective governments.

Spanish authorities were still trying to determine how many of their citizens were on board. The Mexican government said there were indications that one Mexican national was also among the victims.

The German students and their teachers spent a week in Llinars del Valles and were seen off at the town's train station early Tuesday by their Spanish host families, said Pere Grive, the deputy mayor of the town of 9,000, about a 45-minute drive from Barcelona.

German and Spanish students from the two towns have been doing such exchanges for at least 15 years. The Spanish students had spent time in Germany in December.

"We are completely shattered and the students are also devastated," Grive told The Associated Press.

In Haltern, the high school was going to be kept open Wednesday but no classes were planned.

"There will be an opportunity for the students to talk about the terrible event," Klimpel said.

Also among the passengers were two German singers who had been in Barcelona to perform in Richard Wagner's "Siegfried" at the city's Gran Teatre del Liceu — Duesseldorf-born contralto Maria Radner and bass baritone Oleg Bryjak, who was born in Kazakhstan but had been a member since 1996 of the ensemble at Duesseldorf's Deutsche Oper am Rhein opera house.

"We have lost a great performer and a great person in Oleg Bryjak. We are stunned," said Christoph Meyer, director of Deutsche Oper am Rhein.

Radner took the Germanwings flight with her husband and baby, Liceu director of communications Joan Corbera said. He added that the theater's employees will hold two minutes of silence on Wednesday in the singers' honor.

Also traveling on the plane with her baby was Marina Bandres, who came from Jaca in the Spanish Pyrenees and lived in Britain, Jaca Mayor Victor Barrio said. Bandres had been attending a funeral in Jaca for a relative.

Business travelers included Carles Milla, the managing director for a small Spanish food machinery company, his office said, adding that he had been on his way to a food technology fair in Cologne. Two employees of Barcelona's trade fair organization were also on the flight.

Catalonia's regional leader, Artur Mas, said the government would arrange transportation for families who want to view the crash site but did not say when the visit would take place.

At Barcelona airport, passenger Marcel Hemmeldr said he felt "very strange" to check in for Germanwings' evening flight to Duesseldorf.

"The people were standing at the same place where we're standing now ... now they're not there anymore. So it's a strange feeling, a really strange feeling," he said. "I feel sorry for everybody in Germany. All the people there who have lost some family members."
___

Dorothee Thiesing and Martin Meissner in Haltern, David Rising and Geir Moulson in Berlin, Jorge Sainz and Ciaran Giles in Madrid, Joseph Wilson in Barcelona, and Mike Corder in The Hague contributed to this report.


-- (c) Associated Press 2015-03-25

[huanga]

R.I.P.

[longstebe]

Why is it taking so long to determine the exact nationalities of all the passengers?

[NeverSure]

CNN is saying that the plane actually slowed during the descent. (That would require a significant reduction in power as the plane wants to pick up speed "going downhill.") Their analyst said there's indication that the plane was being flown. Of course this is all preliminary and subject to change. The analyst was relying on an "online data tracker."

In any event this is worth a look because there are a number of pictures and a video with more pictures and info.

LINK

[Mosha]

This is on the sky news ticker

Anthony Davis, aviation journalist, told Sky News: “The log suggests (the plane) went straight down at a significant rate, up to 5,000 feet per minute at one point, which suggests it happened in a matter of seconds.

“It is unlikely the passengers on board would have known anything about this.

http://news.sky.com/story/1451555/live-passenger-plane-crashes-in-french-alps

Straight down at up to 5000 feet per minute.

<deleted> would cause that ?

Terrible news.

Emergency descent due to decompression?

[NeverSure]

This is on the sky news ticker

Anthony Davis, aviation journalist, told Sky News: “The log suggests (the plane) went straight down at a significant rate, up to 5,000 feet per minute at one point, which suggests it happened in a matter of seconds.

“It is unlikely the passengers on board would have known anything about this.

http://news.sky.com/story/1451555/live-passenger-plane-crashes-in-french-alps

Straight down at up to 5000 feet per minute.

<deleted> would cause that ?

Terrible news.

Emergency descent due to decompression?

At first I said no, but now I'm wondering. CNN said they descended to 6,000 from 38,000 feet and they wouldn't need to go nearly that low to get atmospheric oxygen. If they lost oxygen and passed out then it doesn't make sense how they could have reduced power (slowed) during the descent. If it was on autopilot it doesn't make sense that it would descend at all but rather keep flying until it ran out of fuel. Of course none of this preliminary info in the news is necessarily true.

Nothing adds up yet. The NYT said they found the cockpit voice recorder (black but really orange box) at the crash site and that might tell something but we're probably in for a long wait.

I keep going back to that witness on the ground near the crash who said he saw and heard it just before the crash and it looked and sounded normal except it hit the mountain.

If everything we hear turned out to be true I'd guess it was hijacked and flown straight into the ground (mountain) either by a passenger or a crazed pilot. With more information over time that could turn out to be totally wrong.

[Thai Travel Bug]

Too many A320's going down inexplicably in recent times. Passengers can be screened through immigration and customs control. The mindset or intentions of a pilot cannot be. Not saying this was the case, but it is more than likely the Malaysian Airlines flight missing apparently off the east coast of Australia was almost undoubtedly a terrorist or suicidal action on behalf of the pilot, who knows how many more we may see. No radio contact, no SOS, no emergency call, doesn't seem to sit right. Every nation in the world has radicalised or sympathetic persons on their shores. I pray that what we are seeing in recent times is not a trend. If we have one or two more go down in similar circumstances in the not too distant future, the world has changed for ever. Not in a good way. Another very sad day with lots of questions gone unanswered.

[neverdie]

This is on the sky news ticker

Anthony Davis, aviation journalist, told Sky News: The log suggests (the plane) went straight down at a significant rate, up to 5,000 feet per minute at one point, which suggests it happened in a matter of seconds.

It is unlikely the passengers on board would have known anything about this.

http://news.sky.com/story/1451555/live-passenger-plane-crashes-in-french-alps

Straight down at up to 5000 feet per minute.

<deleted> would cause that ?

Terrible news.

Emergency descent due to decompression?

There are so many variables, however, history has shown that one little event or situation an led to a series of mistakes or failures to occur, so it could end up being any number of issues that led to this.

It could be as simple as a decompression issue followed by a failure with the pilots oxygen system that led to the rapid onset on hypoxia. Tests have been done to show that hypoxia can set in at somewhere between 30 seconds & 2 minutes.

If it were the case that the a sudden decompression and the pilots donned their breathing apparatus, which unbeknown to them was faulty then they could of easily been overcome by the situation & never recovered after the plane reached safe flight level (around FL15000 feet) AND before it struck the ground.

A sudden decompression at FL38000 (or similar) is hardly a pleasant thing and people on board could suffer significant pain, not to mention debris and miscellaneous items wizz around the cabin & flight deck in a ferocious manner. It may be the case that during this type of thing the a/c auto systems were inadvertently turned off or a setting changed. This would normally HOPEFULLY be picked up by the crew after an initial emergency situation, however if they had a breathing appartus issue following the initial incident and they either missed that or couldn't rectify the situation, it could be game over for the flight deck crew in a matter of seconds.

All speculation of course, but information to hand does seem odd AS OFTEN it does.

There's literally a million and one things that could of occurred, hopefully the Orange boxes will reveal all, in due course.

My thoughts are with the crew & passengers family and friends. Very sad.

RIP.

Edited March 25, 2015 by neverdie

[NeverSure]

I wouldn't call this inexplicable yet. This isn't in the water and they will have the black boxes including it being reported that they have the cockpit voice recorder. They'll get the other box which monitors almost countless things on the airplane and records that. It may have been an equipment problem and the pilots were too busy with that to radio, although that's part of why they have two pilots.

Information is probably going to slow down.

I just looked at the CNN site again and it's horribly sad. Mind bending sad.

[Anthony5]

I wouldn't call this inexplicable yet. This isn't in the water and they will have the black boxes including it being reported that they have the cockpit voice recorder. They'll get the other box which monitors almost countless things on the airplane and records that. It may have been an equipment problem and the pilots were too busy with that to radio, although that's part of why they have two pilots.

Information is probably going to slow down.

I just looked at the CNN site again and it's horribly sad. Mind bending sad.

Since it is reported that they lost radio contact with the control tower, is it correct to assume that this means before the actual crash?

If it was a terrorist act, be sure that it never will be revealed.