Anthony5 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 So how do you explain that a mirage was sent out before the plane touched ground without a distress call? http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_FRANCE_PLANE_CRASH_THE_LATEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT France's air force says it scrambled a Mirage fighter jet to the area when the Germanwings flight lost radar contact, but arrived too late to help. An air force spokesman said Wednesday that the Mirage 2000 took off minutes after it became clear that there was a problem and went to the A320's last known location, but arrived after it crashed in the Alps on Tuesday. Maybe because of this? 4:40 p.m. (1540 GMT, 11:40 a.m. EDT) Two Americans presumed to have died in the plane crash in the southern French Alps include a U.S. government contractor and her daughter, according to a person close to the family. The mother was identified as Yvonne Selke of Nokesville, Virginia, a longtime and highly regarded employee of Booz Allen Hamilton Inc. in Washington, and her daughter, whose name wasn't immediately available. Selke worked with the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon's satellite mapping office, according to the person, who spoke on condition of anonymity because this person wasn't authorized to release information to reporters. There are reports on a Belgian news site, where a witness to the crash says that he witnessed the plane making a maneuver to avoid the first mountain, and that the fighter jet had to make a maneuver to avoid crashing in the Germanwings plane. The link is in Dutch language, so feel free to remove it if it's against forum rules. http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/33222/Vliegtuigcrash-Germanwings/article/detail/2264230/2015/03/25/Herder-in-rampgebied-Ik-zag-hoe-vliegtuig-nog-een-berg-kon-ontwijken.dhtml Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bwanatickey Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 The crash site , there appears to be a lack of fire in the crash site. Where did the fuel go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longstebe Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Something strange about this, we're still not getting the exact amount of all the nationalities on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balo Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) The voice recorder could be partly damaged, let's hope the tapes are working so we can end too many speculations. I read somewhere that it was silence in the cockpit around 1 minute after the descent started but this coming from a source that is not credible. Also if the pilots were sucked out , their bodies could be many miles away from the crash site . If that is the case we will soon find out Edited March 25, 2015 by balo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 So how do you explain that a mirage was sent out before the plane touched ground without a distress call? http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_FRANCE_PLANE_CRASH_THE_LATEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT France's air force says it scrambled a Mirage fighter jet to the area when the Germanwings flight lost radar contact, but arrived too late to help. An air force spokesman said Wednesday that the Mirage 2000 took off minutes after it became clear that there was a problem and went to the A320's last known location, but arrived after it crashed in the Alps on Tuesday. Maybe because of this? 4:40 p.m. (1540 GMT, 11:40 a.m. EDT) Two Americans presumed to have died in the plane crash in the southern French Alps include a U.S. government contractor and her daughter, according to a person close to the family. The mother was identified as Yvonne Selke of Nokesville, Virginia, a longtime and highly regarded employee of Booz Allen Hamilton Inc. in Washington, and her daughter, whose name wasn't immediately available. Selke worked with the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon's satellite mapping office, according to the person, who spoke on condition of anonymity because this person wasn't authorized to release information to reporters. There are reports on a Belgian news site, where a witness to the crash says that he witnessed the plane making a maneuver to avoid the first mountain, and that the fighter jet had to make a maneuver to avoid crashing in the Germanwings plane. The link is in Dutch language, so feel free to remove it if it's against forum rules. http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/33222/Vliegtuigcrash-Germanwings/article/detail/2264230/2015/03/25/Herder-in-rampgebied-Ik-zag-hoe-vliegtuig-nog-een-berg-kon-ontwijken.dhtml do you speak Dutch? I'm not under the impression that the article says anything about the jet manoeuvering, it says it flew along the right side of the mountain, AFAIU - but my Dutch isn't 100% either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 (edited) One thing that's always irritating in Europe is that authorities always infantilize the public and consider that news have to be filtered, interpreted and delayed. Authorities know about what they heard from the CVR and also about what the fighter jet's pilot saw, but neither are reported in the news, this is sad. Edited March 25, 2015 by manarak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 I'm thinking the same thing, if it was a structural failure in the cockpit all they had time for was to turn on the auopilot before they were sucked out of the plane. Maybe only the cockpit was damaged so the passengers would have been alive during the 8 minute descent. I think your imagination is working overtime. There was a case where a windscreen went (BA from memory) & the captain was sucked out.....his feet got caught in the controls and cabin crew held onto his legs while the F.O.Mlanded the aircraft. The captain lived too. Sudden decompression can be extremely violent and can cause substantial structual damage to the airframe.....it can cripple the plane. That was down to a maintenance error, not structural failure. to be pedantic, it was structural failure due to a maintenance error. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony5 Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 So how do you explain that a mirage was sent out before the plane touched ground without a distress call? http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_FRANCE_PLANE_CRASH_THE_LATEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT France's air force says it scrambled a Mirage fighter jet to the area when the Germanwings flight lost radar contact, but arrived too late to help. An air force spokesman said Wednesday that the Mirage 2000 took off minutes after it became clear that there was a problem and went to the A320's last known location, but arrived after it crashed in the Alps on Tuesday. Maybe because of this? 4:40 p.m. (1540 GMT, 11:40 a.m. EDT) Two Americans presumed to have died in the plane crash in the southern French Alps include a U.S. government contractor and her daughter, according to a person close to the family. The mother was identified as Yvonne Selke of Nokesville, Virginia, a longtime and highly regarded employee of Booz Allen Hamilton Inc. in Washington, and her daughter, whose name wasn't immediately available. Selke worked with the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon's satellite mapping office, according to the person, who spoke on condition of anonymity because this person wasn't authorized to release information to reporters. There are reports on a Belgian news site, where a witness to the crash says that he witnessed the plane making a maneuver to avoid the first mountain, and that the fighter jet had to make a maneuver to avoid crashing in the Germanwings plane. The link is in Dutch language, so feel free to remove it if it's against forum rules. http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/33222/Vliegtuigcrash-Germanwings/article/detail/2264230/2015/03/25/Herder-in-rampgebied-Ik-zag-hoe-vliegtuig-nog-een-berg-kon-ontwijken.dhtml do you speak Dutch? I'm not under the impression that the article says anything about the jet manoeuvering, it says it flew along the right side of the mountain, AFAIU - but my Dutch isn't 100% either. Google translate is your friend. At the same time, we saw how a fighter performed a maneuver to evade the Airbus. That Mirage was clearly sent to detect and locate the airliner, as we realized afterwards. http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl&sl=nl&tl=en&u=http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/33222/Vliegtuigcrash-Germanwings/article/detail/2264230/2015/03/25/Herder-in-rampgebied-Ik-zag-hoe-vliegtuig-nog-een-berg-kon-ontwijken.dhtml&sandbox=0&usg=ALkJrhgqXvTSe8J6mhbjBOcKyxjRQe3Mag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 So how do you explain that a mirage was sent out before the plane touched ground without a distress call? http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_FRANCE_PLANE_CRASH_THE_LATEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT France's air force says it scrambled a Mirage fighter jet to the area when the Germanwings flight lost radar contact, but arrived too late to help. An air force spokesman said Wednesday that the Mirage 2000 took off minutes after it became clear that there was a problem and went to the A320's last known location, but arrived after it crashed in the Alps on Tuesday. Maybe because of this? 4:40 p.m. (1540 GMT, 11:40 a.m. EDT) Two Americans presumed to have died in the plane crash in the southern French Alps include a U.S. government contractor and her daughter, according to a person close to the family. The mother was identified as Yvonne Selke of Nokesville, Virginia, a longtime and highly regarded employee of Booz Allen Hamilton Inc. in Washington, and her daughter, whose name wasn't immediately available. Selke worked with the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon's satellite mapping office, according to the person, who spoke on condition of anonymity because this person wasn't authorized to release information to reporters. There are reports on a Belgian news site, where a witness to the crash says that he witnessed the plane making a maneuver to avoid the first mountain, and that the fighter jet had to make a maneuver to avoid crashing in the Germanwings plane. The link is in Dutch language, so feel free to remove it if it's against forum rules. http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/33222/Vliegtuigcrash-Germanwings/article/detail/2264230/2015/03/25/Herder-in-rampgebied-Ik-zag-hoe-vliegtuig-nog-een-berg-kon-ontwijken.dhtml Reports were that ATC initiated the emergency when they lost radio contact and could see that the plane was descending. It wouldn't be unusual to scramble a fighter to try to find out what's going on. I can think of twice that was done in the US. One is 9/11, and the other when a Lear Jet had sudden decompression, everyone died, and it continued steadily on autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed. IIRC it had the golfer Payne Stewart on board and he died. When the fighter got up there it could see that all of the windows were frozen over and knew, without really knowing, what had happened. There may have been others that I don't recall. A civilian on the ground could mistake a fighter turning abruptly to avoid a mountain for turning due to the airliners. Most reports I've read and seen say that the fighter arrived after the crash. Preliminary reports are so unreliable... There's just so much that we don't know yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 to be pedantic, it was structural failure due to a maintenance error. :-) There was no structural failure. The window fell off because some plank used the wrong screws. The structural integrity of the aircraft was just fine. It landed and amazingly he survived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 to be pedantic, it was structural failure due to a maintenance error. :-) There was no structural failure. The window fell off because some plank used the wrong screws. The structural integrity of the aircraft was just fine. It landed and amazingly he survived. That's right. I was sloppy withmy terminology which always proves fatal with the tvf Sharks ? The windscreen is DEFINATELY one part of the A/C that the pilots like to keep in tact, a major hole at that end would end up with all sorts of important equipment disappearing. For example headsets and the ability to be able to communicate GONE. CRM (Crew resource management) becomes a guessing game. There an aweful haze, severe wind. The ability to donning any mask become complicated to say the least.....all that's gorgetting that the crew may have been sucked through their loosely fitted or no. Existent restraints. Equipment can be damaged. Without oxygen the crew would if most likely started their drunken euphoria by the 20-30 second mark at which point it was a game changer. Really, terrible stuff. Bless their souls they had not much but luck on their side and it would seem even luck disipated quickly. The whole scenario should send shivers up any pilots back. I am sure some basic information will flow I due course if something like this occurred. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khaosai Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 Anonymous quote on the aviation herald website, I quote from http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/558654-airbus-a320-crashed-southern-france-26.html CVR data has been read. It seems structural failure (windshield? not determined yet)..It was quick... sound of cracks,but crew initiated emergency descent by autopilot and then they weren't heard anymore. Autopilot was on during whole descent, but disconnected automatically shortly before impact when GPWS alerts appeared. As an anonymous quote it should be treated with caution, but the scenario makes sense. I wonder if the pilots were still inside the plane when it crashed. I'm thinking the same thing, if it was a structural failure in the cockpit all they had time for was to turn on the auopilot before they were sucked out of the plane. Maybe only the cockpit was damaged so the passengers would have been alive during the 8 minute descent. yes - can any pilot here tell if pilots are required to keep their seatbelts on and if said seatbelts are designed to prevent someone from being sucked out? Hi,Take off and landing requires the 5 point harness to be worn. When the seatbelt signs go off then most crew will leave on only the lap strap unless it is turbulent. Others will choose to wear the 5 point harness until top of climb and back on from top of descent. I have never flown with any pilot who wears the full harness for the whole flight whilst in the seat. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Christmas13 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Pilot locked out of cockpit http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/germanwings-airbus-a320-crash-grim-reality-of-crash-site/story-fnizu68q-1227278795235 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Pilot locked out of cockpit http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/germanwings-airbus-a320-crash-grim-reality-of-crash-site/story-fnizu68q-1227278795235 Well I see 2 scenarios, the first was the pilot was alone and had a heart attack or something and couldn't open the door, the other you can figure out... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zydeco Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 What were the names of the pilots? The life history of the Malaysian Air pilots were all over the news by this time in that plane's disappearance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JockPieandBeans Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 What were the names of the pilots? The life history of the Malaysian Air pilots were all over the news by this time in that plane's disappearance. Exactly. With the latest revelation that one was locked out of the cockpit. Its beginning to become a bit sinister. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 One pilot can fly the plane just fine if necessary. There are two in case of - oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) Perhaps ATC knew of the emergency due to the transponder squawking the emergency channel, but the pilots didn't make radio contact. If true it's really odd considering how much time lapsed and at the very least a pilot would announce his descent due to other traffic. Also since this may have occurred almost at the beginning of the flight, it seems like a pilot would have turned back if he could. It's a puzzle that a real pilot would go ahead and try to cross the Alps. Yesterday I began to question the pilots' behavior and then stopped because there still isn't enough information, even now. I'm still questioning because it doesn't add up to what a "real" pilot would do under normal circumstances. When called on my term "real pilot" I said I had some suspicion of a hijack. I've had that suspicion the whole time. It doesn't mean it's true, but it's always been suspicious why the plane didn't answer or use the radio, why it went low into the mountain when it's reported that it was flying fine and for a long distance, slowed while in a sharp descent instead of speeding up indicating someone was flying it, was in severe clear air... We'll just have to keep waiting. Edited March 26, 2015 by NeverSure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mosha Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Those 16 students went on the exchange trip because they won a school lottery. 1 of them was doubly unlucky. He left his passport at his host's house, and they rushed to the airport to make sure he got on the flight. - BBC News. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitsune Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 One of the pilot left the cockpit and was locked out till the end Could it be a terrorist attack? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zydeco Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 One pilot locked out, leaving only one person in the pilot's cabin? There is always supposed to be two crew members in the cabin, I understand. And there is no news about the names and and backgrounds of the flight crew, including the pilots. Seems suspicious to me, but then a lot of this news is coming from CNN and NYTimes, who I don't trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 One of the pilot left the cockpit and was locked out till the end Could it be a terrorist attack? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-airbus-crash.html It could be that the pilot in the cabin locked the other out so he could do a murder-suicide. We don't even know that yet much less the motive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Yesterday in post 90 I said this reminded me of 9/11 when I was glued to the TV and planes were deliberately flown off course. No contact, no apparent reason - deliberate sabotage. Now I'm really wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 One pilot locked out, leaving only one person in the pilot's cabin? There is always supposed to be two crew members in the cabin, I understand. It is an absolute requirement that there are at least two in the cockpit during takeoff and landing phase. During flight there is not unless they have pee bottles in the cockpit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony5 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 One pilot locked out, leaving only one person in the pilot's cabin? There is always supposed to be two crew members in the cabin, I understand. It is an absolute requirement that there are at least two in the cockpit during takeoff and landing phase. During flight there is not unless they have pee bottles in the cockpit. http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/germanwings-airbus-a320-crash-grim-reality-of-crash-site/story-fnizu68q-1227278795235 Since the September 11 terrorist attacks, airlines in the US don’t leave one pilot alone in the cockpit. The standard operating procedure is that if one of the pilots leaves - for example to use the bathroom - a flight attendant takes their spot in the cockpit. It was not immediately clear if European airlines have adopted the same practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony5 Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 So how do you explain that a mirage was sent out before the plane touched ground without a distress call? http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/E/EU_FRANCE_PLANE_CRASH_THE_LATEST?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT France's air force says it scrambled a Mirage fighter jet to the area when the Germanwings flight lost radar contact, but arrived too late to help. An air force spokesman said Wednesday that the Mirage 2000 took off minutes after it became clear that there was a problem and went to the A320's last known location, but arrived after it crashed in the Alps on Tuesday. Maybe because of this? 4:40 p.m. (1540 GMT, 11:40 a.m. EDT) Two Americans presumed to have died in the plane crash in the southern French Alps include a U.S. government contractor and her daughter, according to a person close to the family. The mother was identified as Yvonne Selke of Nokesville, Virginia, a longtime and highly regarded employee of Booz Allen Hamilton Inc. in Washington, and her daughter, whose name wasn't immediately available. Selke worked with the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency, the Pentagon's satellite mapping office, according to the person, who spoke on condition of anonymity because this person wasn't authorized to release information to reporters. There are reports on a Belgian news site, where a witness to the crash says that he witnessed the plane making a maneuver to avoid the first mountain, and that the fighter jet had to make a maneuver to avoid crashing in the Germanwings plane. The link is in Dutch language, so feel free to remove it if it's against forum rules. http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/33222/Vliegtuigcrash-Germanwings/article/detail/2264230/2015/03/25/Herder-in-rampgebied-Ik-zag-hoe-vliegtuig-nog-een-berg-kon-ontwijken.dhtml Reports were that ATC initiated the emergency when they lost radio contact and could see that the plane was descending. It wouldn't be unusual to scramble a fighter to try to find out what's going on. I can think of twice that was done in the US. One is 9/11, and the other when a Lear Jet had sudden decompression, everyone died, and it continued steadily on autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed. IIRC it had the golfer Payne Stewart on board and he died. When the fighter got up there it could see that all of the windows were frozen over and knew, without really knowing, what had happened. There may have been others that I don't recall. A civilian on the ground could mistake a fighter turning abruptly to avoid a mountain for turning due to the airliners. Most reports I've read and seen say that the fighter arrived after the crash. Preliminary reports are so unreliable... There's just so much that we don't know yet. So an emergency is initiated, a pilot gets in his Mirage, gets in the air and has to make a maneuver to avoid the Airbus near the crash site. And all this in less than 8 minutes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Ohh dear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commerce Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Heart wrenching read http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/26/world/europe/germanwings-plane-crash-joseph-konig-gymnasium-students.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-3&action=click&contentCollection=Europe®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&pgtype=article Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zydeco Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Again, what are the names of the pilots? We've already had bios and interviews with friends and families of the passengers. But I haven't seen anything on the pilots and flight crew. Why? Again, info about the Malaysian plane that disappeared was all over the media. Just one more thing that makes me wonder what they might be trying to cover up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aforek Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 The co pilot was new in the compagny ... daily motion video http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2klooe_crash-d-un-a320-les-premieres-informations-d-une-boite-noire_news?start=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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