I'm innocent and afraid, says US man fighting extradition to Thailand in kidnap case

[webfact]

I'm innocent and afraid, says So. Fla. man fighting extradition to Thailand in kidnap case
By Paula McMahon

PALM BEACH: -- Fighting extradition to a foreign country where he fears he could be tortured and executed without a fair trial, a South Florida man told a federal judge Wednesday that he is innocent and very scared.

Federal prosecutors say Shawn Abraham Shaw, 43, is an international fugitive who hid out here after he kidnapped a wealthy U.S. businessman in Thailand and negotiated a $2 million ransom in December 2013.

Thai authorities want Shaw extradited to face criminal charges there. He has been in jail since he was arrested Nov. 26 at the Palm Beach condo where he lived.

"I'm innocent," Shaw said, his voice cracking with emotion during an extradition hearing in federal court in West Palm Beach. "I have one life."

Shaw and his defense lawyer, Jason Kreiss, say he's being set up by a powerful tycoon who lives next door to the Thai royal family and wants him locked up as revenge for a failed business deal.

Full story: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/palm-beach/fl-palm-thailand-extradition-20150325-story.html

-- SunSentinel 2015-03-26

[sdanielmcev]

Curiouser and curiouser.

[NeverSure]

They simply must not turn him over. Even a foreigner would get refugee status over this with Thailand's current situation.

[Always18]

I don't know any of the facts in this case, but I'm pretty sure the Florida prosecuting authorities do not realise how very plausible this defendants story is in a Thailand scenario..................as far-fetched as it might sound in most Western countries.

[robblok]

They simply must not turn him over. Even a foreigner would get refugee status over this with Thailand's current situation.

Typical American reaction.. hand us over anyone we want.. but vice versa.. no no no.

Real arrogant attitude.

I can still remember the Dutch people ticked in the US and extradited. The Netherlands should never again send anyone to the US untll they clean up their act.

[HeijoshinCool]

Though no money changed hands, prosecutors said the ongoing discussions about a casino chip deal were an attempt to cover up a ransom payment that was to be disguised as a business deal so Shaw wouldn't have to pay income tax on it.

So let me get this straight: you don't have to pay taxes on a business deal, but you do have to pay them on ransom money.

(Yes, I know, technically Americans do have to pay taxes on illegally gotten gains, but you see my point, right?)

This poor guy is screwed. The so-called victim has money, and in Thailand that's what counts. Not justice. Not the truth. Just big bribes. And the American judge should take this not consideration.

But he won't.

EDIT: spillchicken

Edited March 26, 2015 by Scott

[sdanielmcev]

They simply must not turn him over. Even a foreigner would get refugee status over this with Thailand's current situation.

Typical American reaction.. hand us over anyone we want.. but vice versa.. no no no.

Real arrogant attitude.

I can still remember the Dutch people ticked in the US and extradited. The Netherlands should never again send anyone to the US untll they clean up their act.

I'd say that's about normal for any country.

[HeijoshinCool]

They simply must not turn him over. Even a foreigner would get refugee status over this with Thailand's current situation.

Typical American reaction.. hand us over anyone we want.. but vice versa.. no no no.

Real arrogant attitude.

I can still remember the Dutch people ticked in the US and extradited. The Netherlands should never again send anyone to the US untll they clean up their act.

.

Typical Dutch arrogance: assume facts not in evidence, and make unwarranted attacks on other posters.

NeverSure never said other countries should hand over everyone the US government demands;

NeverSure is not the US government. So don't blame him for the sins of his government.

[NeverSure]

They simply must not turn him over. Even a foreigner would get refugee status over this with Thailand's current situation.

Typical American reaction.. hand us over anyone we want.. but vice versa.. no no no.

Real arrogant attitude.

I can still remember the Dutch people ticked in the US and extradited. The Netherlands should never again send anyone to the US untll they clean up their act.

Turn him over to an out of control D word which is threatening to kill members of the press and arresting people for "attitude adjustments"?

Turn him over to a military coup which shows no signs of honoring ordinary human rights?

Gimme a break please.

[robblok]

They simply must not turn him over. Even a foreigner would get refugee status over this with Thailand's current situation.

Typical American reaction.. hand us over anyone we want.. but vice versa.. no no no.

Real arrogant attitude.

I can still remember the Dutch people ticked in the US and extradited. The Netherlands should never again send anyone to the US untll they clean up their act.

.

Typical Dutch arrogance: assume facts not in evidence, and make unwarranted attacks on other posters.

NeverSure never said other countries should hand over everyone the US government demands;

NeverSure is not the US government. So don't blame him for the sins of his government.

Just look at the figures in countries handing over their people to the USA and vice versa.. you will see what I mean.

Remember the killer Amanda Knox.

Not saying the US should hand over everyone to Thailand... but in ways of treaties and such.. the USA is severely lacking.

[robblok]

They simply must not turn him over. Even a foreigner would get refugee status over this with Thailand's current situation.

Typical American reaction.. hand us over anyone we want.. but vice versa.. no no no.

Real arrogant attitude.

I can still remember the Dutch people ticked in the US and extradited. The Netherlands should never again send anyone to the US untll they clean up their act.

Turn him over to an out of control D word which is threatening to kill members of the press and arresting people for "attitude adjustments"?

Turn him over to a military coup which shows no signs of honoring ordinary human rights?

Gimme a break please.

Yes because the junta will try this case.. and he will be tortured. This has nothing to do with the Junta.

Give me some examples of Western foreigners being tortured in Thailand and ill see the logic.

Bet you did not mind the Pit Bull (English guy) who killed a marine (American) to be tried in Thailand. Will look if I can find some of your comments ND.. to see if you might be bias. (if not Id apologize)

Edited March 26, 2015 by robblok

[NickJ]

Just the fact that Thailand is trying to get the guy back for a crime that he commited against a non-Thai......that alone is pretty fishy and it indicates that money is changing hands at rhis early stage.

[robblok]

Ok have to apologize to NS .. did not find him in any of the Pitbull posts. Thought I seen him there but I was mistaken.. but plenty of Americans there wanted him tried in Thailand and not the UK.

[HeijoshinCool]

In Thailand, as in Mexico and other third world countries, you are guilty until proven innocent. You have no right to a trial by a jury of your peers, or any jury for that matter. Thailand is on many watch lists that originate in Washington. Thailand is well known for its corruption.

I resent that my government even made treaties with a third world corrupt government, to turn me and my fellow Americans over based on such limited "evidence" as sworn statements.

Sworn statements, as anyone in law enforcement will tell you, are often blatant lies.

A treaty between the UK and the US? Fine. The US and Australia or France. Okay.

Thailand? Hell no.

[robblok]

In Thailand, as in Mexico and other third world countries, you are guilty until proven innocent. You have no right to a trial by a jury of your peers, or any jury for that matter. Thailand is on many watch lists that originate in Washington. Thailand is well known for its corruption.

I resent that my government even made treaties with a third world corrupt government, to turn me and my fellow Americans over based on such limited "evidence" as sworn statements.

Sworn statements, as anyone in law enforcement will tell you, are often blatant lies.

A treaty between the UK and the US? Fine. The US and Australia or France. Okay.

Thailand? Hell no.

So you go and commit a murder in Thailand.. escape to the US and are free.. crazy. Not all Americans are not guilty. You got scum there too same as any other country. Same as my country.

There are NO reports of foreigners being tortured. The guy could be real guilty and just putting up a show.

I can understand the sentiment if it was about political activists as currently there are claims. But foreigners.. especially Americans... no way.

Are there cases of lying cops in the USA sure.. does that stop other countries handing over people to them based on flimsy evidence.. no.

Then you got Amanda Knox.. guilty by the highest Italian court but the US decides not to extradite because they think a few years in jail was enough. Just shows the bias of the US system. That is why I cry foul.

If the Thais have good evidence.. send him over.. claims of torture of westerners are B.S.

[Credo]

Amanda Knox was set free and allowed to return to the US. The Italian Court then later decided to try and have her brought back. She had already been through the court process. Re-trying her would be a violation of US law and in general countries don't extradite in these cases. Similarly, countries without the death penalty do not send people to face death in a country that does have the death penalty. In the Knox case it is called double-jeopardy.

Not exactly the same thing.

[BKKBobby]

Amanda Knox was set free and allowed to return to the US. The Italian Court then later decided to try and have her brought back. She had already been through the court process. Re-trying her would be a violation of US law and in general countries don't extradite in these cases. Similarly, countries without the death penalty do not send people to face death in a country that does have the death penalty. In the Knox case it is called double-jeopardy.

Not exactly the same thing.

She was as guilty as OJ! But Americans cant believe that such a good looking American-pie could be a killer ABROAD. And the italian legal system, OMG so corrupt, unfair and thirld world... my memory of it all is still rather fresh.

USA expects extraditions but are not equally fair in reciprocating it to countries that are considered safe and democratic.

Edited March 26, 2015 by BKKBobby

[robblok]

Amanda Knox was set free and allowed to return to the US. The Italian Court then later decided to try and have her brought back. She had already been through the court process. Re-trying her would be a violation of US law and in general countries don't extradite in these cases. Similarly, countries without the death penalty do not send people to face death in a country that does have the death penalty. In the Knox case it is called double-jeopardy.

Not exactly the same thing.

A higher court came up with this.. that it was not in accordance with American law.. tough luck the crime was not committed in the USA.

That is what I mean with imposing their standards onto others. The Dutch have given out some drugs criminals that would not have been convicted back home on the same evidence. (do I mind hell no they were probably guilty). But when the tables turn the USA is not that great at reciprocating.

Edited March 26, 2015 by robblok

[NeverSure]

So you go and commit a murder in Thailand.. escape to the US and are free.. crazy. Not all Americans are not guilty. You got scum there too same as any other country. Same as my country.

There are NO reports of foreigners being tortured. The guy could be real guilty and just putting up a show.

I can understand the sentiment if it was about political activists as currently there are claims. But foreigners.. especially Americans... no way.

Are there cases of lying cops in the USA sure.. does that stop other countries handing over people to them based on flimsy evidence.. no.

Then you got Amanda Knox.. guilty by the highest Italian court but the US decides not to extradite because they think a few years in jail was enough. Just shows the bias of the US system. That is why I cry foul.

If the Thais have good evidence.. send him over.. claims of torture of westerners are B.S.

"Then you got Amanda Knox.. guilty by the highest Italian court but the US decides not to extradite because they think a few years in jail was enough. Just shows the bias of the US system. That is why I cry foul."

This is one place we strongly differ. Most countries won't hand someone over if their rights in their own country would be violated. Countries which don't have a death penalty usually won't hand someone over to a country which might likely execute one of their citizens.

The US has a strong Constitutional guarantee against double jeopardy. You can't be tried twice for the same crime. HC made a nice post to explain Knox.

A military coup is illegal the world over and the leader seen as illegitimate, having no right to try anyone. I don't see any Western country turning one of its citizens over to that system.

[robblok]

So you go and commit a murder in Thailand.. escape to the US and are free.. crazy. Not all Americans are not guilty. You got scum there too same as any other country. Same as my country.

There are NO reports of foreigners being tortured. The guy could be real guilty and just putting up a show.

I can understand the sentiment if it was about political activists as currently there are claims. But foreigners.. especially Americans... no way.

Are there cases of lying cops in the USA sure.. does that stop other countries handing over people to them based on flimsy evidence.. no.

Then you got Amanda Knox.. guilty by the highest Italian court but the US decides not to extradite because they think a few years in jail was enough. Just shows the bias of the US system. That is why I cry foul.

If the Thais have good evidence.. send him over.. claims of torture of westerners are B.S.

"Then you got Amanda Knox.. guilty by the highest Italian court but the US decides not to extradite because they think a few years in jail was enough. Just shows the bias of the US system. That is why I cry foul."

This is one place we strongly differ. Most countries won't hand someone over if their rights in their own country would be violated. Countries which don't have a death penalty usually won't hand someone over to a country which might likely execute one of their citizens.

The US has a strong Constitutional guarantee against double jeopardy. You can't be tried twice for the same crime. HC made a nice post to explain Knox.

A military coup is illegal the world over and the leader seen as illegitimate, having no right to try anyone. I don't see any Western country turning one of its citizens over to that system.

Yes.. but the crime was not committed in the USA. American arrogance. (death penalty things I can understand) Remember the Knox thing was overturned by the HIGHEST court in Italy.. not just anything.. it would have been fair. But no she was pretty so the Americans did not want to do this.

The military coup has nothing to do with this American and his trial.. I asked you to give me some info of torture on Western subjects.. you can't as there is none. The coup has not changed the Thai justice system in normal case. Just an other crybaby trying to evade punishment.

(ps in all my post I write americans I mean american government) before i get labeled hater of Americans like last time. Seems to happen when you comment about the USA.

[BKKBobby]

So you go and commit a murder in Thailand.. escape to the US and are free.. crazy. Not all Americans are not guilty. You got scum there too same as any other country. Same as my country.

There are NO reports of foreigners being tortured. The guy could be real guilty and just putting up a show.
I can understand the sentiment if it was about political activists as currently there are claims. But foreigners.. especially Americans... no way.

Are there cases of lying cops in the USA sure.. does that stop other countries handing over people to them based on flimsy evidence.. no.

Then you got Amanda Knox.. guilty by the highest Italian court but the US decides not to extradite because they think a few years in jail was enough. Just shows the bias of the US system. That is why I cry foul.

If the Thais have good evidence.. send him over.. claims of torture of westerners are B.S.

"Then you got Amanda Knox.. guilty by the highest Italian court but the US decides not to extradite because they think a few years in jail was enough. Just shows the bias of the US system. That is why I cry foul."

This is one place we strongly differ. Most countries won't hand someone over if their rights in their own country would be violated. Countries which don't have a death penalty usually won't hand someone over to a country which might likely execute one of their citizens.

The US has a strong Constitutional guarantee against double jeopardy. You can't be tried twice for the same crime. HC made a nice post to explain Knox.

A military coup is illegal the world over and the leader seen as illegitimate, having no right to try anyone. I don't see any Western country turning one of its citizens over to that system.[/quote

Its all excuses. When a pretty American-pie kills a person of another nationality overseas, she simply is "innocent" and US finds a way to not let her get a prison sentence. US didnt want her to face the charges plain and simple. And digged thru every possible way to justify that she didnt get a prison sentence in Italy.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Scott

[Seastallion]

In Thailand, as in Mexico and other third world countries, you are guilty until proven innocent. You have no right to a trial by a jury of your peers, or any jury for that matter. Thailand is on many watch lists that originate in Washington. Thailand is well known for its corruption.

I resent that my government even made treaties with a third world corrupt government, to turn me and my fellow Americans over based on such limited "evidence" as sworn statements.

Sworn statements, as anyone in law enforcement will tell you, are often blatant lies.

A treaty between the UK and the US? Fine. The US and Australia or France. Okay.

Thailand? Hell no.

I take your point...but what about in the other direction when, as has happened, a criminal flees the US and hides in Thailand?

Surely it's a two-way street.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Seastallion

[Seastallion]

So you go and commit a murder in Thailand.. escape to the US and are free.. crazy. Not all Americans are not guilty. You got scum there too same as any other country. Same as my country.

There are NO reports of foreigners being tortured. The guy could be real guilty and just putting up a show.

I can understand the sentiment if it was about political activists as currently there are claims. But foreigners.. especially Americans... no way.

Are there cases of lying cops in the USA sure.. does that stop other countries handing over people to them based on flimsy evidence.. no.

Then you got Amanda Knox.. guilty by the highest Italian court but the US decides not to extradite because they think a few years in jail was enough. Just shows the bias of the US system. That is why I cry foul.

If the Thais have good evidence.. send him over.. claims of torture of westerners are B.S.

"Then you got Amanda Knox.. guilty by the highest Italian court but the US decides not to extradite because they think a few years in jail was enough. Just shows the bias of the US system. That is why I cry foul."

This is one place we strongly differ. Most countries won't hand someone over if their rights in their own country would be violated. Countries which don't have a death penalty usually won't hand someone over to a country which might likely execute one of their citizens.

The US has a strong Constitutional guarantee against double jeopardy. You can't be tried twice for the same crime. HC made a nice post to explain Knox.

A military coup is illegal the world over and the leader seen as illegitimate, having no right to try anyone. I don't see any Western country turning one of its citizens over to that system.[/quote

Its all excuses. When a pretty American-pie kills a person of another nationality overseas, she simply is "innocent" and US finds a way to not let her get a prison sentence. US didnt want her to face the charges plain and simple. And digged thru every possible way to justify that she didnt get a prison sentence in Italy.

Amanda Knox is small fry compared to the culpable negligent American managers of the factory in Bhopal that killed or seriously injured 20000 people (and still counting).

Attitudes such as shown on here (although admittedly having some justification in this case due to the nature of Thailand's "justice" system), and historical facts do tend to give the world a perception that America will protect their own, even if guilty. The current case of a marine in the Phillipines who is charged with murder but held by US provos is an example.

extradition treaties are a two way street that America needs to respect.

[robblok]

So you go and commit a murder in Thailand.. escape to the US and are free.. crazy. Not all Americans are not guilty. You got scum there too same as any other country. Same as my country.

There are NO reports of foreigners being tortured. The guy could be real guilty and just putting up a show.

I can understand the sentiment if it was about political activists as currently there are claims. But foreigners.. especially Americans... no way.

Are there cases of lying cops in the USA sure.. does that stop other countries handing over people to them based on flimsy evidence.. no.

Then you got Amanda Knox.. guilty by the highest Italian court but the US decides not to extradite because they think a few years in jail was enough. Just shows the bias of the US system. That is why I cry foul.

If the Thais have good evidence.. send him over.. claims of torture of westerners are B.S.

"Then you got Amanda Knox.. guilty by the highest Italian court but the US decides not to extradite because they think a few years in jail was enough. Just shows the bias of the US system. That is why I cry foul."

This is one place we strongly differ. Most countries won't hand someone over if their rights in their own country would be violated. Countries which don't have a death penalty usually won't hand someone over to a country which might likely execute one of their citizens.

The US has a strong Constitutional guarantee against double jeopardy. You can't be tried twice for the same crime. HC made a nice post to explain Knox.

A military coup is illegal the world over and the leader seen as illegitimate, having no right to try anyone. I don't see any Western country turning one of its citizens over to that system.[/quote

Its all excuses. When a pretty American-pie kills a person of another nationality overseas, she simply is "innocent" and US finds a way to not let her get a prison sentence. US didnt want her to face the charges plain and simple. And digged thru every possible way to justify that she didnt get a prison sentence in Italy.

Amanda Knox is small fry compared to the culpable negligent American managers of the factory in Bhopal that killed or seriously injured 20000 people (and still counting).

Attitudes such as shown on here (although admittedly having some justification in this case due to the nature of Thailand's "justice" system), and historical facts do tend to give the world a perception that America will protect their own, even if guilty. The current case of a marine in the Phillipines who is charged with murder but held by US provos is an example.

extradition treaties are a two way street that America needs to respect.

There are countless of cases like the american marine and Amanda Knox available where the USA strong-arm others. They need respect and need to understand its a two way street.

Amanda Knox did the crime in Italy.. there its allowed to be tried twice.. not in the USA but Italian law is apply-able.. what is next sorry I drove on the left side of the road in the UK and killed a few people doing so but in the US the law states I can do this. Crazy.. the law of the country counts not some USA law. Those double jeopardy things are US made not Italian.. an other strong-arm case.

And here this guy is not a political prisoner.. so torture wont happen. It has never been proven that Westerners are tortured in Thailand. (not even reports about this) The justice system did not change with the coup. The guy probably did the crime and is doing whatever he can to stay from jail.

Did see many Americans cheer when Lee Alderhouse got convicted in Thailand (and so it should be).

[NeverSure]

extradition treaties are a two way street that America needs to respect.

Aren't you forgetting that the West sees Thailand's current government as illegal and illegitimate and lacking standing to try anyone?

Thailand's coup installed "government" has no treaty with anyone.

[Credo]

Amanda Knox went to trial. She was convicted. She served time. She was set free by the COURT IN ITALY. She was allowed to return to the US. If the Italians wished to re-try her, they should have kept her. Once she was allowed to return to the US, she will not be returned.

As for strong arming, European countries are pretty adamant about not extraditing to the US unless very specific conditions are met and the idea of being extradited for something that isn't a crime in the foreign country is one of them.

As far as the US protecting its own? Of course, that's what most gov'ts do.

[NeverSure]

In Thailand, as in Mexico and other third world countries, you are guilty until proven innocent. You have no right to a trial by a jury of your peers, or any jury for that matter. Thailand is on many watch lists that originate in Washington. Thailand is well known for its corruption.

I resent that my government even made treaties with a third world corrupt government, to turn me and my fellow Americans over based on such limited "evidence" as sworn statements.

Sworn statements, as anyone in law enforcement will tell you, are often blatant lies.

A treaty between the UK and the US? Fine. The US and Australia or France. Okay.

Thailand? Hell no.

I take your point...but what about in the other direction when, as has happened, a criminal flees the US and hides in Thailand?

Surely it's a two-way street.

Thailand usually wants to get rid of them/deport them if they aren't Thai. If Thailand protected a Thai it wouldn't surprise me and the US could do nothing.

This is a case where corrupt, illegitimate Thailand want's an American citizen on what might be dodgy charges and that citizen will be railroaded through a lack of rule of law. That citizen wouldn't be given the legal protections that he would be given in the UK, Aus, etc.

Hell no they shouldn't give up a citizen to lose his human rights in a kangaroo court run by an illegitimate government where the judge probably either bought his job or was given it out of nepotism or from doing favors. They shouldn't give him up to the d word I'm not allowed to accurately describe on here.

Cheers

[Scott]

Some of the remarks are getting pretty borderline. Let's remember to exercise care in our comments about the gov't and the court system in Thailand.

[Credo]

He will be tried in a court and if he's found guilty he will be sentenced.

Everyone would be jumping up and down screaming if we were watching a video of him being beheaded.

[robblok]

In Thailand, as in Mexico and other third world countries, you are guilty until proven innocent. You have no right to a trial by a jury of your peers, or any jury for that matter. Thailand is on many watch lists that originate in Washington. Thailand is well known for its corruption.

I resent that my government even made treaties with a third world corrupt government, to turn me and my fellow Americans over based on such limited "evidence" as sworn statements.

Sworn statements, as anyone in law enforcement will tell you, are often blatant lies.

A treaty between the UK and the US? Fine. The US and Australia or France. Okay.

Thailand? Hell no.

I take your point...but what about in the other direction when, as has happened, a criminal flees the US and hides in Thailand?

Surely it's a two-way street.

Thailand usually wants to get rid of them/deport them if they aren't Thai. If Thailand protected a Thai it wouldn't surprise me and the US could do nothing.

This is a case where corrupt, illegitimate Thailand want's an American citizen on what might be dodgy charges and that citizen will be railroaded through a lack of rule of law. That citizen wouldn't be given the legal protections that he would be given in the UK, Aus, etc.

Hell no they shouldn't give up a citizen to lose his human rights in a kangaroo court run by an illegitimate government where the judge probably either bought his job or was given it out of nepotism or from doing favors. They shouldn't give him up to the d word I'm not allowed to accurately describe on here.

Cheers

More tough talk from you without substance, though in general you show intelligence. Maybe the fact that this is an American has something to do with it.

The junta is not in charge of the courts there is still a division of power. Nothing has changed the guy would still have the same rights as when there was an other government in charge. If you say its not true please back up your claims or take them back.

There is no proof he is being setup, if there was the would use that instead of bogus torture claims.

As I said before no reports ever of Westerners getting tortured here.