neverdie Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Frankly speaking, I would be more comfortable with a properly designed and secure robot (or program) flying me from A to B. Maybe with a possible override from land base. Human link is obviously the weak one for one reason or another. Gowd! I am flying in a couple of days, really... Well if they could do it, they would but they can't......yet. You see know, today, it only takes a blocked pitot or something silly snd the auto systems alert the crew and disengage. What would happen if there were no crew to take over. YeSrs ago I was a guest in a flight were the auto take off was being Utilised and there was a malfunction and the human intervened and averted a disaster. Thank God for a professional and well trained pilot I told Myself & I reminised about the good old days were humans did it all ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOC Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 The forensic find comes hours after it emerged that Lubitz was forced to postpone his pilot training in 2008 because of mental health problems, with a friend saying he was 'in depression'.Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3012053/Andreas-Lubitz-Germanwings-flight-9525-French-alps-crash-French-alps-Germanwings-plane-crash-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette.html#ixzz3VbqkW74a Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook Why the hell was he allowed to continue his training and eventually become responsible for the the safety and lives of other people?? Yes he was a nutcase, but his employer has more than a few questions to answer!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOC Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Let us just for a second forget our petty fights here on Thaivisa, and think about the horror the passengers must have experienced during an 8 minute free fall towards their death. Hard even to imagine!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiwikeith Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) How do they know he didn't have a freak medical event? They monitor his breathing and it was normal. He deliberately locked the captain out of the cockpit/flight deck. He wasn't too ill to do that or to manipulate the controls to put the plane into a sharp descent. Both of those have to be done deliberately. Experts and officials are calling this deliberate. It is deliberate alright so the man must have had a serious psychological problem or he was converted to become a kamikaze terrorist for some organization, what other answer is there -None! Air New Zealand already changed policy to 2 men in cockpit at all times it is sad that this day has come and I fear that the Malaysian plane not yet found went down the same way. Nut cases in the control of aircraft maybe a sign of the times of cheap corporate CEO's smashing pay and conditions for Christ's sake put three pilots back in the cockpit how much does a dead plane cost- much more than placing another pilot in the cockpit let alone the poor misery and suffering from the innocent. RIP all. To add further, according to German website he had a break from flying as he had a burnout according to the mother of his classmate, she told the Frankfurter Zeitung he suffered from depression and had a burnout. This is serious, and a huge blot on the airline industry for poor screening add to that the Malaysian episode and here we are faced with nutters flying planes now. See news site Heavy.com. Edited March 27, 2015 by kiwikeith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malcoml Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Quotes from OP: "Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz's "intention (was) to destroy this plane," " Lubitz, a 28-year-old German, manually set the plane on the descent that drove it into the mountain." "... co-pilot said nothing from the moment the commanding pilot left." "... the override code known to the crew does not go into effect and indeed goes into a lockdown if the person inside the cockpit specifically denies entry..." "The circumstances of the crash are likely to raise questions anew about the possibility of suicidal pilots." "In the 1999 crash of an EgyptAir jet off Nantucket that killed all 217 people on board, U.S. investigators found the co-pilot intentionally caused the plane to go down despite the pilot's efforts to regain control." "CEO Spohr said: "We choose our cockpit staff very, very carefully." " Lubitz had never been flagged as a terrorist and would not give details on his religion or ethnic background." Call me heartless for not joining the RIP brigade - costs little and is worth even less.Call me paranoid if you are more confident in your own mental condition. But the circumstances, facts and opinions quoted above do not seem to me supporting "psychotic" version. Also they do not seamlessly stitch together IMHO. I'm afraid I smell a rat here. European Laws forbid disclosure of details related to ethnicity, religion etc. of this Andreas Lubitz. He was (?) permitted not to give details of his ethnic and religious background when trained and employed (?). Bingo! I do not like this! Whether it is true or false... Well, his name looks classically German, so ethnicity is likely not an 'issue'. But what are you saying? That airlines should discriminate against people of certain ethnicities or faiths in their hiring?? Yes.. Sounds like a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
transam Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Quotes from OP: "Co-pilot Andreas Lubitz's "intention (was) to destroy this plane," " Lubitz, a 28-year-old German, manually set the plane on the descent that drove it into the mountain." "... co-pilot said nothing from the moment the commanding pilot left." "... the override code known to the crew does not go into effect and indeed goes into a lockdown if the person inside the cockpit specifically denies entry..." "The circumstances of the crash are likely to raise questions anew about the possibility of suicidal pilots." "In the 1999 crash of an EgyptAir jet off Nantucket that killed all 217 people on board, U.S. investigators found the co-pilot intentionally caused the plane to go down despite the pilot's efforts to regain control." "CEO Spohr said: "We choose our cockpit staff very, very carefully." " Lubitz had never been flagged as a terrorist and would not give details on his religion or ethnic background." Call me heartless for not joining the RIP brigade - costs little and is worth even less.Call me paranoid if you are more confident in your own mental condition. But the circumstances, facts and opinions quoted above do not seem to me supporting "psychotic" version. Also they do not seamlessly stitch together IMHO. I'm afraid I smell a rat here. European Laws forbid disclosure of details related to ethnicity, religion etc. of this Andreas Lubitz. He was (?) permitted not to give details of his ethnic and religious background when trained and employed (?). Bingo! I do not like this! Whether it is true or false... Well, his name looks classically German, so ethnicity is likely not an 'issue'. But what are you saying? That airlines should discriminate against people of certain ethnicities or faiths in their hiring?? Yes.. Sounds like a good idea. In todays "climate" perhaps yes. But of course impossible to instigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliss Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Human, or Auto Pilot ,? A new dimension has entered into flying , the mental state of the cabin crew. Enjoy you flight . RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusty Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 What amazes the crap out of me is that now this flight has been quickly detected to be a pilot suicide flight (well done to the flight investigators for coming up with this fast), comparisons are being made with other large airline pilot suicides of the past such as Egypt Air and Silk Air but NONE seem to include the MH370 in the stats yet. At least this event may change things for the better and regulations changed to ensure that never ever again is just ONE person allowed to be in the cockpit alone again. Sooner this happens the better. It was only swiftly detected after two sources leaked the news and the media were being castigated for printing the leaks indicates "they" were trying to put a lid on it and block the facts (just review the last newsclips to find who "they" are). Just look how the Malaysian obfuscates the MH370 case and successfully blocked the news of what really happened. No, the flight investigators have nothing to be praised for ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p_brownstone Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Let us just for a second forget our petty fights here on Thaivisa, and think about the horror the passengers must have experienced during an 8 minute free fall towards their death. Hard even to imagine!! This thought sears my mind too. Somewhere I read that a spokesman for the Airline said the only screams from passengers were recorded in the last few seconds before impact - I find this impossible to believe. Apparently the "locked out" Pilot at first knocked gently on the closed Cockpit door to gain access, shorty after that he began hammering on the door and then made attempts to break the door down. All this would have been in full view of passengers, so they knew for many minutes there was a major, probably fatal, problem. Patrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seastallion Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) How do they know he didn't have a freak medical event? They monitor his breathing and it was normal. He deliberately locked the captain out of the cockpit/flight deck. He wasn't too ill to do that or to manipulate the controls to put the plane into a sharp descent. Both of those have to be done deliberately. Experts and officials are calling this deliberate. I had the same question as JT. It's just too hard to comprehend deliberate murder of all those people. They don't monitor his breathing, they hear it over the mic. Locking the door is standard practice. Overiding the autopilot is the thing, though. But against that is the breathing being normal; surely if you have just determined to take yourself out along with 150 other souls, you'd be a bit stressed? Edit...I just remembered that he over-rode the door control too....so yes, it's probably not a medical event. Crazy. Edited March 27, 2015 by Seastallion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmichd Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) If Lubitz did suffer a mental breakdown, as indicated in the above posts, then this makes the matter all the more serious for the German airline industry. He should have washed out at that point. What sort of people are German airlines putting into the skies? It also makes me wonder if American and other airlines are giving a pass these days to unstable people, too. In this day and age, after all, it is better to put the lives of hundreds at risk than hurt the feelings or job opportunity of a single individual. What's exactly meant by "mental breakdown"? Edited March 27, 2015 by micmichd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabothai Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 The only evidence so far is the voice recorder of the black box. Other scenarios are possile. Allthough I am very suspicious I am waiting for much more evidence to come to a conclusion. Let's just hope this disaster is not going to be worse than 9/11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DM07 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 If this is true, this is one of the most f#@%$& up thin, I have heard in a long time! Truly and absolutely shocking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusty Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 What amazes the crap out of me is that now this flight has been quickly detected to be a pilot suicide flight (well done to the flight investigators for coming up with this fast), comparisons are being made with other large airline pilot suicides of the past such as Egypt Air and Silk Air but NONE seem to include the MH370 in the stats yet. At least this event may change things for the better and regulations changed to ensure that never ever again is just ONE person allowed to be in the cockpit alone again. Sooner this happens the better. It was only swiftly detected after two sources leaked the news and the media were being castigated for printing the leaks indicates "they" were trying to put a lid on it and block the facts (just review the last newsclips to find who "they" are). Just look how the Malaysian obfuscates the MH370 case and successfully blocked the news of what really happened. No, the flight investigators have nothing to be praised for ! Again what became of the oil rig worker who reported seeing a passenger jet crash into the sea near Vietnam on MH370's flight path ? I heard he was sacked for speaking out of line and obviously upset someone in the chain. In these last three cases it is evident, authorities place the airlines first and above all else. But surely his sighting deserves investigating ! Anyone, anyone..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmichd Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 German police make 'significant discovery' at his flat >>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3012053/Andreas-Lubitz-Germanwings-flight-9525-French-alps-crash-French-alps-Germanwings-plane-crash-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette.html What happened in the Germanwings Flight 9525 cockpit: From cheerful chatter to screams in the final seconds >>> http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/26/what-happened-in-the-cockpit-of-germanwings-flight-9525-from-cheerful-chatter-to-screams-in-the-final-seconds/ Why is the link to Daily Mail blocked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 They monitor his breathing and it was normal. He deliberately locked the captain out of the cockpit/flight deck. He wasn't too ill to do that or to manipulate the controls to put the plane into a sharp descent. Both of those have to be done deliberately. Experts and officials are calling this deliberate. I had the same question as JT. It's just too hard to comprehend deliberate murder of all those people. They don't monitor his breathing, they hear it over the mic. Locking the door is standard practice. Overiding the autopilot is the thing, though. But against that is the breathing being normal; surely if you have just determined to take yourself out along with 150 other souls, you'd be a bit stressed? Edit...I just remembered that he over-rode the door control too....so yes, it's probably not a medical event. Crazy. Yes, "monitor his breathing" came from the info that they listened to it on the tape. You got it all correct and that's how they decided it was deliberate. I got some posts removed near the beginning of this (fair play, I was off topic) but I was early on comparing this to other deliberate crashes and saying this sounded just like them. It's the only thing that adds up, from the beginning. They will be digging hard now talking to everyone who had anything to do with him to try to see if there's a clue as to what was going on with him. They have his computer and so forth and they'll just keep digging. It's a real tragedy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Somtamnication Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 My biggest fear is one of a rogue pilot. Scary stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 My biggest fear is one of a rogue pilot. Scary stuff. It's more dangerous on the throne. http://www.toilet-related-ailments.com/heart-attack.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesWideOpen Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Eerie closeness to Egypt Air 990 in 1999 where the pilot chose to kill himself and incidentally all the passengers behind him. At this point airlines are going to have to do a lot more screening of pilots for mental wellness, or airline manufacturers are going to have to put in some form of electronic safeguards that would prevent a wacked out pilot from deciding to kill all his passengers. I suspect this incident has spooked a lot of potential flyers. Maybe in the future , with online flight information, they will have to list the pilot information as well. Maybe I am racist, but I personally I always like to hear the clipped accent of an older British pilot coming over the intercom as I prepare to take off... :-) On a side note, I think these locking doors to the cockpit have killed more people than they have saved. The FAA may have to rethink the concept..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyesWideOpen Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 German police make 'significant discovery' at his flat >>> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3012053/Andreas-Lubitz-Germanwings-flight-9525-French-alps-crash-French-alps-Germanwings-plane-crash-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette.html What happened in the Germanwings Flight 9525 cockpit: From cheerful chatter to screams in the final seconds >>> http://news.nationalpost.com/2015/03/26/what-happened-in-the-cockpit-of-germanwings-flight-9525-from-cheerful-chatter-to-screams-in-the-final-seconds/ Why is the link to Daily Mail blocked? The Daily Mail was blocked for saying things the Thai government did not like. It now appears to unblocked. The link works fine for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
balo Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 What if he was on drugs or some heavy medication ? He had a history with depression and the airline probably never knew it, even if he underwent mental tests. A mix if drugs combined with a depressive mind could lead to this tragedy . I wonder if they test pilots for drugs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmichd Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) As I posted in the other thread. The guy had an history of depression. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/germanwings-plane-co-pilot-andreas-lubitz-5406020 Yet his classmate's mother says he was "totally normal" last Christmas... Edited March 27, 2015 by micmichd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manarak Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 hmm... he qualified as a pilot in 2008, but worked first as a steward and became co-pilot in 2013 ?? why did he have to work so long as a flight attendant? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11496066/Andreas-Lubitz-and-Patrick-S-What-do-we-know-about-the-pilots-on-Germanwings-flight-4U9525.html the next question is, the telegraph says the following: Lubitz "took a break in his training six years ago. Then he did the tests (technical and psychological) again. And he was deemed 100 percent fit to fly". But the Lufthansa internet site says tests cannot be taken again ? http://www.lufthansa-pilot.de/faq.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverdie Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 As I posted in the other thread. The guy had an history of depression. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/germanwings-plane-co-pilot-andreas-lubitz-5406020 Yet his classmate's mother says he was "totally normal" last Christmas... 5555555. Where do they find these people. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsetBkk Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 As I posted in the other thread. The guy had an history of depression. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/germanwings-plane-co-pilot-andreas-lubitz-5406020 Yet his classmate's mother says he was "totally normal" last Christmas... 5555555. Where do they find these people. Probably on a list of his classmates' mothers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hawker9000 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 (edited) I can sympathize with someone who feels so stressed out that he wants to end his own life, but how anyone can plan to take 150 men, women and especially children with him suggests that the airlines need to tighten up the psychological screening ... and ensure that a single person is never left alone in the cockpit. Quite easily it seems judging by the actions of this insane maniac. Governments around the world need to do more, possibly making it mandatory to have security guards on every flight, and judging from this event, one inside the cockpit. No if's or but's. The more people you put on that plane the more chances you have of someone going postal. What if the security guard is the nut? I can't find world statistics real fast, but the US NOAA says that every day in the US there are 28,000 airline flights. This crash as news is very sobering, but as a statistic it's insignificant enough for me not to worry. Cheers. Oops. LINK I too think that the addition of an armed and physically trained security guard to the cockpit crew is sort of kneejerk and possibly something that just creates another point of failure with even more catastrophic potential; a cure worse than the disease. Automated systems seem to have better & better track records these days while humans have ones that are getting worse & worse. I also think this just might be offering us some clue about what happened to MH370. 'Thought I saw a headline somewhere just the other day about the possibility of mandatory automated cars (that is, ones where you don't even get the option to drive!) in the not too distant future. 'Maybe coming to an airline near you even sooner. Edited March 27, 2015 by hawker9000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeCobra Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Brilliant reactions by executives of Airbus, Lufthansa, Germanwings. Within hours they visited the disaster area. Relatives and the press were informed about first conclusions incredibly fast. No stupid games, no spinning attempts. That's the way to handle such a situation. Asian airlines watch this in amazement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannyboy666 Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I can sympathize with someone who feels so stressed out that he wants to end his own life, but how anyone can plan to take 150 men, women and especially children with him suggests that the airlines need to tighten up the psychological screening ... and ensure that a single person is never left alone in the cockpit. Quite easily it seems judging by the actions of this insane maniac. Governments around the world need to do more, possibly making it mandatory to have security guards on every flight, and judging from this event, one inside the cockpit. No if's or but's. The more people you put on that plane the more chances you have of someone going postal. What if the security guard is the nut? I can't find world statistics real fast, but the US NOAA says that every day in the US there are 28,000 airline flights. This crash as news is very sobering, but as a statistic it's insignificant enough for me not to worry. Cheers. Oops. LINK I too think that the addition of an armed and physically trained security guard to the cockpit crew is sort of kneejerk and possibly something that just creates another point of failure with even more catastrophic potential; a cure worse than the disease. Automated systems seem to have better & better track records these days while humans have ones that are getting worse & worse. I also think this just might be offering us some clue about what happened to MH370. 'Thought I saw a headline somewhere just the other day about the possibility of mandatory automated cars (that is, ones where you don't even get the option to drive!) in the not too distant future. 'Maybe coming to an airline near you even sooner. The Airlines would make money on it, extra pilot charges Extra Security Guard Charges, Have never seen a Sky Marshall behave this way, maybe they need that sort of Training... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 RIP to all the innocent victims. Came across this article http://edition.cnn.com/2015/03/26/travel/germanwings-crash-death-by-pilot-cases/ Seems that 'solo' crashes are not that uncommon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micmichd Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 You're actually breeding all kinds of "Christian" maniacs, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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