Class sizes to be cut in all state schools

[webfact]

Class sizes to be cut
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Classes in all state schools will be pared down to 40 students or less in five years, compared to about 50 now.

Education Minister Narong Pipatanasai said yesterday that class sizes will be reduced further to 30 for nurseries and kindergartens.

Classrooms are now packed with 50 students, especially in highly-rated schools, which is a violation of a new standard under ongoing educational reform.

Smaller schools located in the same area of those famous schools will be required to upgrade their standards to accommodate student spill-over.

The change would help teachers look after their students more closely, he said after chairing a key ministry meeting that discussed various measures under the latest education reform proposals, including the setting-up of a "Superboard" to implement the latest education reform.

The educational restructuring is part of the National Reform Council's makeover of various areas under the junta's policy to reshape Thailand thoroughly.

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/national/Class-sizes-to-be-cut-30256828.html


-- The Nation 2015-03-27

[SoilSpoil]

super idea and so easy to implement. It basically means that the existing 50 minute periods are slashed in 40 minute periods. If not, schools would need 20% more classrooms and 20% more highly qualified teachers. Thumbs up, schools can start planning today.

[CindyB]

"The change would help teachers look after their students more closely, he said after chairing a key ministry meeting that discussed various measures under the latest education reform proposals, including the setting-up of a "Superboard" to implement the latest education reform."

This would assume that teachers are in the classrooms with the students at all times.

[Rod Wallop]

Thai education: No Idea.

[Thaddeus]

Just another announcement saying ''this is what we want''

To be followed up by doing nothing to achieve it.

[WonnabeBiker]

They need to manage with the resources they got. No one asks my opinion, but I would like to try a few things:

* larger classes where motivated students of different grades are grouped together and thus can hace more than one conversation class a week.

* reading classes - many Mathayom students can't read English! We let them down and no, many of those students were keen to learn and well behaved, even in M2! Alas, the school in rural Isaan wouldn't give me an assistant to help with some voluntary work during the lunch break.

* More fun & extra curricular activities. And let each and every students speak for say hald an hour with their foreign teachers! Many never had a conversation... And they are tongue-tied. A litle push might help them overcome their fear...

* TBH, I taught in a classroom where many tables were unusable (one couldn't write on them) and there were not enough chairs.

* They need to focus on the basics and apply reflective paint on the roofs. Classroom temperatures of a few degrees less will make a difference and won't cost a single kw/h electricity.

* Make learning English optional. Some students don't care to learn. Let those do something else...

The once-a-week system is simply not working, IMHO. Do you think that 2 hours a week in 1 term would beat the usual once-a-week practice all year long?

[thesetat2013]

They need to manage with the resources they got. No one asks my opinion, but I would like to try a few things:

* larger classes where motivated students of different grades are grouped together and thus can hace more than one conversation class a week.

* reading classes - many Mathayom students can't read English! We let them down and no, many of those students were keen to learn and well behaved, even in M2! Alas, the school in rural Isaan wouldn't give me an assistant to help with some voluntary work during the lunch break.

* More fun & extra curricular activities. And let each and every students speak for say hald an hour with their foreign teachers! Many never had a conversation... And they are tongue-tied. A litle push might help them overcome their fear...

* TBH, I taught in a classroom where many tables were unusable (one couldn't write on them) and there were not enough chairs.

* They need to focus on the basics and apply reflective paint on the roofs. Classroom temperatures of a few degrees less will make a difference and won't cost a single kw/h electricity.

* Make learning English optional. Some students don't care to learn. Let those do something else...

The once-a-week system is simply not working, IMHO. Do you think that 2 hours a week in 1 term would beat the usual once-a-week practice all year long?

Although some of your ideas are ok.. Thai have made their decision that aircon and cooler rooms promote and spread disease faster as well as being cost ineffective. More english classes means more foreign teacher and more money lost.

Also you must consider that last year the Gov decided that all Gov workers should have one day a week speaking english at the office to prepare for the ASEAN... That lasted one day before it was forgotten just as this will be forgotten once they see they will not profit as much as they are now with larger classrooms....

[Lupatria]

Class sizes to be cut in all state schools

If they do it the Thai way it ends up with classroom sizes to be cut

[quandow]

Smaller classes will mean more teachers needed. Hah! Fat chance of THAT happening - teachers are deserting Thailand and very few are even considering coming. Until they stop treating teachers like dung, they're gonna get the educational system they've bargained for.

[crickets]

Very difficult to do without kicking out students or building more classes as most are packed to the rafters all day.

[Srikcir]

"The change would help teachers look after their students more closely ..."

Yet, the Superboard has decided that students spend too much time in class and should be learning outside the classroom. How is a teacher going to look after those students?

[aarontendo]

Smaller classes will mean more teachers needed. Hah! Fat chance of THAT happening - teachers are deserting Thailand and very few are even considering coming. Until they stop treating teachers like dung, they're gonna get the educational system they've bargained for.

Why do you assume they were even making refernce to NES teachers? I'm pretty sure there are more flip-flops coming than ever before. Trust me, they won't have any problem finding low cost imported teachers.

Besides that, why do we assume this has anything to do with us? I hate to break it to people here, but us farang English teachers here are barely a blip when you look at the entirety of the Thai educational system. I know sometimes we like to think we're important and all, but the ministry of education ain't exactly looking at us when they want to fix their system.

I'm not trying to be rude, but let's put this in perspective. I would guess that a bunch of unqualified white guys from their home countries teaching here makes up what, not even 1% of the teachers in this country. It's not about us.

[aarontendo]

Having said all that, reducing classroom sizes is a good start. 50 kids is way too much, especially in primary education. I also read that there are a lot of graduates of Thai teachers colleges who need jobs so this is an opportune time to provide employment for those.

Now, question being where does the budget come from? Especially in light of some of the pushback against proposed property tax laws.

[timber]

Probably 20% of the students shouldn't be in normal school after the 6th grade. Should be in technical school or learning a trade. They waste their time, the teacher's time, and the quality of education in the class is lower.

[WonnabeBiker]

super idea and so easy to implement. It basically means that the existing 50 minute periods are slashed in 40 minute periods. If not, schools would need 20% more classrooms and 20% more highly qualified teachers. Thumbs up, schools can start planning today.

You've nailed it. All these announcements. and then there is the sad reality.

Some schools don't even have a chair and a table for each student. But hey, let's plan a modern classroom with interactive I-Pads etc. (In the mean time, check out the director's oppulent quarters)

...

Classroom size isn't everything!! We had to teach combined M4-6 classes and it worked. No one came who didn't want to be there. The noise level was low, they were motivated. One could generate more time that way.

They won't be building more classrooms or hire more teachers, that much goes without saying.

[bangon04]

"Classrooms are now packed with 50 students, especially in highly-rated schools, which is a violation of a new standard under ongoing educational reform."

Pretty sure that demanding money from parents to get a place in the "highly-rated" schools is also a violation of some standard or other....

If they allow 20 per cent fewer places in "highly-rated" schools, one presumes the "entry fee " will be increased by at least 20 per cent too.

[Rhys]

ya da ya da.. heard it before... class are not smaller, they are larger.. more cost effective.. ..

[dickie58]

My son is a student in the Assumption school, Siracha, in last years class there were 53 students, please note this is a private school, not a government 1.

I had a meeting with the Thai school principal earlier this week, he told me that they accepted there were too many kids in the classes, but if they wanted to reduce them they would have to increase school fee a little, which i said wasn't a bad idea.

He said as of the 2016 school year there are going to try & limit the students to 50 in a class.

My son's main teacher can barely speak English, there is a separate teacher for English classes, I also mentioned that to the principal, although he made no comment.

Our son struggles in Chinese, I said it would be good idea if more of the staff could speak & understand English.

Edited March 28, 2015 by dickie58

[Rhys]

sorry.. you were expecting the school administrators to do something?

[dickie58]

sorry.. you were expecting the school administrators to do something?

Yes as i am a parent of one of the students, or at least give a constructive answer rather than the usual Thai fob off?

[Rhys]

sorry.. you were expecting the school administrators to do something?

Yes as i am a parent of one of the students, or at least give a constructive answer rather than the usual Thai fob off?

Let me guess, one of those western parents, who puts their child in the care of a Thai school and expects, a Thai administrator to listen to some FARANG who has lived in country for a little bit and gives a complete low down on the Thai School systems.

You.... type of parents are the worst... you EXPECT... the Thai teacher to listen to you in English about WHAT you WANT.. because in your vested opinion, junior is the next ..... poor child...

Where do you live.. you live in a system that would put chains on ALL the auditorium doors and leave only the main entrance open.. and you expect them to change...

The teachers are not giving junior the intellectual challenge of homework because they can't correct it..

Class size only applies to the international schools with the bucks.. and parents with more influence than you..

Don't expect much... yes.. simple, the fact, accepted it move on... put junior in an international school in BKK.. Pay the expensive fees and then junior may receive an education that would meet your Class size standards and quality of instructors..

However, you just go.. give them your best, smile...

[DavisH]

50 is a ridiculous size for a private school. Mine (an EP) caps all classes to 30, but most are generally 20 - 25. My classes are usually 15-20. Don't tolerate 50 in a class, especially if it's an English Program.

The writing is on the wall. Just look at O-Net exam results. 60% of the country can barely muster 30-40% on a multiple choice exam. Judging by this, the majority of students know very little of the Thai curriculum once they graduate M6.

[lostinisaan]

My son is a student in the Assumption school, Siracha, in last years class there were 53 students, please note this is a private school, not a government 1.

I had a meeting with the Thai school principal earlier this week, he told me that they accepted there were too many kids in the classes, but if they wanted to reduce them they would have to increase school fee a little, which i said wasn't a bad idea.

He said as of the 2016 school year there are going to try & limit the students to 50 in a class.

My son's main teacher can barely speak English, there is a separate teacher for English classes, I also mentioned that to the principal, although he made no comment.

Our son struggles in Chinese, I said it would be good idea if more of the staff could speak & understand English.

Not making an Assumption now, but who the <deleted> would believe a "ginn tang freak"? What does "going to try" in Thailand actually mean?

Even "only 50" in a class is pretty much insane. I've got various movies my son had made in M.2 and M.3, where they had Thai teachers "teaching" them.

The one science teacher made her lesson where not even one was listening to her. All of them were online, updating their facebook bs pages, some looked at porn, while others preferred to sleep.

I'm not making this up, I've got the movies on my HD. I wanted to post them on youtube, but don't wanna see teechaas lose face.

[farangmick]

The countries with the best education, eg Finland, have found that spending money on the best teachers is far more effective than spending it on reduced class sizes.

[dickie58]

50 is a ridiculous size for a private school. Mine (an EP) caps all classes to 30, but most are generally 20 - 25. My classes are usually 15-20. Don't tolerate 50 in a class, especially if it's an English Program.

The writing is on the wall. Just look at O-Net exam results. 60% of the country can barely muster 30-40% on a multiple choice exam. Judging by this, the majority of students know very little of the Thai curriculum once they graduate M6.

When my son starts the new school year in May, he will be in the high school part of the Assumption School, Siracha, they have no EP for kids of that age there.

Just to clarify another comment from someone else, I have lived in TH on a permanent basis for almost 20 years, so I am not a newbie!! Is it right that us the parents of our kids sit there button lipped & say nothing, dream on.

A Brit friend of mine, his 14 year daughter goes to another local Pattaya private school & she is on the EP, apparently most of the Farang teachers all walked out of there last term, including one who took pictures of his private parts & was showing number of the girl students the pictures!

As i said in my original comment my son struggles with Chinese, although does fine in English & Thai. I don't think the school sets an example when majority of the TH staff cannot speak or even communicate in English.

[Scott]

Here is a link to some facts about the Finnish system, which produces the highest PISA scores:

http://www.takepart.com/photos/ten-surprising-facts-finlands-education-system-americans-should-not-ignore/finland-knows-what-s-best

The class size is 20, which still might be considered as large, but 20 is manageable given the other factors. 50 students being cut to 40 is a start, but it is still not generally a manageable number of students. There are simply too many children being lost in the shuffle.

As far as the English component. I work with several schools and many of the Thai teachers simply cannot communicate in English. This is not necessarily a problem IF there is a good Thai-English coordinator who can run interference and who is trusted and respected by both sides. In one school we have that. In the others we don't and that causes a breakdown in the overall education system.

It is important that the Thai teacher understand that the learning of English is important and doesn't do anything to undermine it. I have heard teachers that tell students that English doesn't matter and it's not important. This type of behavior cannot be tolerated.

[lostinisaan]

Here is a link to some facts about the Finnish system, which produces the highest PISA scores:

http://www.takepart.com/photos/ten-surprising-facts-finlands-education-system-americans-should-not-ignore/finland-knows-what-s-best

The class size is 20, which still might be considered as large, but 20 is manageable given the other factors. 50 students being cut to 40 is a start, but it is still not generally a manageable number of students. There are simply too many children being lost in the shuffle.

As far as the English component. I work with several schools and many of the Thai teachers simply cannot communicate in English. This is not necessarily a problem IF there is a good Thai-English coordinator who can run interference and who is trusted and respected by both sides. In one school we have that. In the others we don't and that causes a breakdown in the overall education system.

It is important that the Thai teacher understand that the learning of English is important and doesn't do anything to undermine it. I have heard teachers that tell students that English doesn't matter and it's not important. This type of behavior cannot be tolerated.

At my current school, whenever there's a meeting of all English teachers, it's always conducted in Thai. I had a chat with the director regarding that matter and some of my English teaching colleagues will be surprised when they'll have to speak in English in the next, but also the following meetings.

He did follow the one stipulation of the MOE to shorten the kids' studying time and our kids go home at 3.30. Classroom sizes in lower primary level are about 25, in higher levels about 30- 35.

But in our "Special Program, where the kids (hopefully?) enjoy a bilingual education, there're 40 kids. At the end of the school year still 38 !!

This year we'll have a new special program class, grade one. The first class will attend grade two in May and they're 39 kids who're learning math, science, etc in Thai and in English. Parents pay about 10 K for one term.

Not too long ago, it wasn't even sure if we'd have a new grade one class, because "only" 27 parents had their kids signed up.

Now it seems that they've got 38, or so. Way too many kids who have to learn two languages at the same time.

This year I'll mainly teach the two special program classes, might add and hour teaching computer and I can assure you that it's the hardest job i ever had.

When I first started this program last May, the kids called me "Khun Kru Farang" for about six weeks, until their brains got it to just say teacher.

You really have to have experience to keep 40 little kids interested in learning a second language and teaching them math and science.

I'd love to have only 25 kids in one class, but the director's greediness doesn't seem to have any borders.

And that seems to be the biggest problem in "cutting" classes.

The directors and heads of departments do not want to lose their income, even when selling overpriced books to them.

I do have plenty of movies my son had made in M2 and M3. One of it shows a science lesson taught by a female Thai teacher. None of them was even listening to her.

All of them were online on the school's wireless routers, some wrote some crap on facebook, others looked at some porn, while some of them preferred to have a little nap.

And there're only 28 students in his class. It's not just the class size that matters. If students have to copy some stuff off the board into their notebooks, without understanding any of it, then it's time to think about a teacher who's actually teaching them something.

Same happens at my current school. We've got students from Kindergarten to M 3.Whenever I'm using a copy machine in a room that's being used by a "health" teacher, it's always the same.

The "teacher's" using a projector, shows some parts of the textbook and the kids have to draw and write the bs into their notebooks.

One lesson for M 3 was to draw a human heart and labeling the parts into their notebooks, without any explanation coming from the teacher.

There's no teaching involved, better to call it copying, not studying. A simple robot could do the same for a lot of less money.

Thailand,the hub of continuously creating empty bubble generals?

Edited March 29, 2015 by lostinisaan

[billd766]

50 is a ridiculous size for a private school. Mine (an EP) caps all classes to 30, but most are generally 20 - 25. My classes are usually 15-20. Don't tolerate 50 in a class, especially if it's an English Program.

The writing is on the wall. Just look at O-Net exam results. 60% of the country can barely muster 30-40% on a multiple choice exam. Judging by this, the majority of students know very little of the Thai curriculum once they graduate M6.

My son is in an EP at his school in Khampaeng Phet and the class size is either 23 or 25 but I know it isn't that big.

When I went to school in the 1950s there were 45 in my class AND the teacher knew every one of us by name.

[claffey]

Smaller classes will mean more teachers needed. Hah! Fat chance of THAT happening - teachers are deserting Thailand and very few are even considering coming. Until they stop treating teachers like dung, they're gonna get the educational system they've bargained for.

This article is about Thai Teachers and the Thai educational sytyem. Foreign teachers are only a small part of the overall picture. ESL is only an optional subject and is being overtaken in importance by Chinese. The majority of Thai kids need to learn how to be successful in Thailand. Learning to speak English or think like a westerner won't get them far in Thai government jobs, teaching, business etc... Remember, We are in Thailand.Things are very different here than back home. And that's the reason why we all like it here right!! The sooner people accept that differences exist and it is not up to us to change them the better for all involved.

[claffey]

My son is a student in the Assumption school, Siracha, in last years class there were 53 students, please note this is a private school, not a government 1.

I had a meeting with the Thai school principal earlier this week, he told me that they accepted there were too many kids in the classes, but if they wanted to reduce them they would have to increase school fee a little, which i said wasn't a bad idea.

He said as of the 2016 school year there are going to try & limit the students to 50 in a class.

My son's main teacher can barely speak English, there is a separate teacher for English classes, I also mentioned that to the principal, although he made no comment.

Our son struggles in Chinese, I said it would be good idea if more of the staff could speak & understand English.

Why should the staff all learn English? This is Thailand. Chinese is becoming more and more important everyday. Maybe they should all become proficient in English and Chinese just so your son can learn? Have you any idea how hard those Thai teachers work. They have to do everything. Meet and greet students at the gate, organise assembly everyday,teach every period, feed the kids at break, mark books, talk to parents, make exams etc etc etc...

In your average school in the UK( for example) how many teachers can speak a second language to an ability capable of teaching that language? I would say less than 10 % of the staff. I bet in Thailand that percentage is higher. And remember that the UK prides itself( as does US) on being a multicultural society but its teachers can only speak one language! Why should Thailand be any different?

It might be a good idea to spend some money on extra Chinese lessons for your son instead of wasting your energy attempting to convince the director to do anything. He has thousands of kids to think about, not just your son! ( Sorry I didn't mean to sound too harsh in this post but sometimes parents fail to see the bigger picture from the schools and teachers' perspective)