Thai generals push for 'golden era' when elite held sway

[webfact]

Thai generals push for 'golden era' when elite held sway
AFP

BANGKOK: -- A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

In the legislative building that once used to house elected MPs, Paiboon Nititawan is one of a core group of military appointees charting Thailand's future.

A year ago the veteran conservative was giving rousing speeches to crowds of protesters clamouring for the toppling of prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra and a military takeover.

Thailand's generals did just that in May. And Paiboon, like many prominent establishment figures, was rewarded with a seat on the influential committee redrafting the kingdom's constitution.

"We have designed this constitution based on countering the problems of the last 10 years," Paiboon told AFP, a draft copy of the document on the table in front of him.

"Thai political parties are different to other countries'... they can be bought," he adds.

In the eyes of the country's elite, democratically elected politicians have ruined Thailand with populist policies and cronyism that lead the poor astray.

They long for what they regard as a golden era when parliament was overseen by unelected elders who kept such populism in check.

For many Thais the constitutional debate has a sense of deja vu. The charter has undergone more than a dozen rewrites in the last 80 years, either by democrats trying to consolidate parliamentary power or counter moves by the royalist elite to create a more pliant democracy.

The current junta led by former army chief-turned-premier Prayut Chan-O-Cha is aiming for the latter.

But they insist their reforms will finally end the political bickering and protests that have dogged what used to be one of Southeast Asia's most vibrant economies.

- Large parties targeted -

The first draft is expected on April 17 and the final document should receive royal approval from Thailand's 87-year-old King Bhumibol in September. Elections are slated for early next year.

But enough details have been published to see what kind of political future the generals envisage.

Paiboon explains two key reforms. A senate with the power to impeach elected politicians will be appointed and dominated by the old guard -- including judges, former prime ministers and military figures.

Parliament will be elected through a proportional representation voting system similar to Germany's that will favour smaller parties and coalition governments.

Analysts say those moves are designed to break the backs of large parties and -- above all -- ensure no group loyal to ousted premiers Thaksin Shinawatra and his sister Yingluck ever form an outright majority.

"Elected politicians will be intensively monitored by a small band of bureaucrats, academics, and other technocrats from a moralistic-conservative wing," explains Khemthong Tonsakulrungruang, a constitutional scholar at Bangkok's Chulalongkorn University.

Cultivating a staunch following among the country's urban working-class voters and farmers in the north, parties linked to the Shinawatra family have won every election since 2001.

- 'A step back' -

Commentators say the new constitution is an attempt to return Thailand to a pre-Thaksin era.

"This is surely a step back into what Thailand experienced in the 1980s -- when the power was firmly in the hands of non-elective institutions," Pavin Chachavalpongpun, a Thai academic at Kyoto University, tells AFP.

During that decade Thailand was led by ultra-royalist former general Prem Tinsulanonda, now head of the king's hugely influential Privy Council.

Paul Chambers, director of research at the Institute of South East Asian Affairs in Chiang Mai, says control over the senate would give "arch-royalists a means of vetoing progressive legislation coming from a popularly elected lower house".

But even the junta's natural allies are wary.

Senior members of the Democrat Party, historical opponents of the Shinawatras, have reacted with growing alarm to the charter draft.

At a recent debate in Bangkok, former diplomat and Democrat Party heavyweight Kasit Piromya accused Thailand's generals of pushing the "regression of democratic aspiration".

"What I am seeing at the moment... is the fear that we are going back," he added.

That raises question marks over whether the new constitution will be the silver bullet of stability that the military promises.

A cartoonist for Thai Rath, the country's largest circulation newspaper, recently offered his own take on that question. He drew the constitution as a ticking time bomb.


-- (c) Copyright AFP 2015-03-27

[JOC]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

[peptidebomber]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

Exactly, why can't people see how the General will take this country back in to the dark ages.

And so true, you point it out to them and the morons go, what about Thaksin blablabla, he was so bad blablabla

[nidieunimaitre]

Clearly, this article was written by someone who does not understand Thailand.

Yes, in other countries water will always flow downhill.

But Thailand is special.

[Chang_paarp]

I'm guessing that the PM is not planning a trip to the USA or Europe any time soon. He can visit his intellectual brother in Zimbabwe, better hurry up as he is on borrowed time.

[NeverSure]

Let me write that down so I won't forget. Thainess causes water to run uphill. Got it.

[Costas2008]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

but Yingluck.......................

What democracy are you referring to JOC?

Democracy never existed in Thailand and I very much doubt that it will ever exist.

At least an effort is being made now to bring Thailand to a more civilized world with less corruption and better police force.

Ideals are for the masses, reality and common sense applies more to the right thinking person.

[EnzoRippo]

Sorry, I don't see How to comment this kind of article without criticizing the beloved Junta Leader?

[seajae]

think I will wait until the constitution is actually released before commenting on this, too many people actually put their feet in their mouth and the AFP has shown it always will push the ptp side of politics. What the AFP says and what actually happens have shown to be totally different but if the constitution isnt what is expected by most thais I will also join the outcry against it

Edited March 27, 2015 by seajae

[Chris Lawrence]

What does it mean?

More money spent on Bangkok.

Little money spent on the regional areas and social programs that would benefit all Thais.

A stranglehold on income/taxes, continuation of poor work conditions for the average Thai. Poor wages. Education focus on current regime values. Control of media with harsh laws enacted.

Anyone think of what other benefits this regime brings to the table?

Many of us here have Thai families. I don't think anyone here would have moved into the elite class of Thainess? It’s in our best interest to speak out, even for our children’s sake.

Hope no one has relatives on the fishing boats in Indonesia? How would you feel?

[nidieunimaitre]

There is a question that I've wanted to ask for a long time.....

Yes, we all agree that politicians tend to mess up things.

Yes, it is often said "that the army had to step in to clean up the mess that politicians made".

Yes, that sounds rather reasonable.

But here is my question:

Do you know of 1 example, anywhere in the world, in any time of history, where the army actually cleaned up the mess?

Surely not Galtieri, Jaruzelski, Patakos, Franco, Salazar, Benito, Othello de Carvalho, Pinochet, Yazov, Mobutu, - I hope I have covered all tendancies.

As a matter of fact, I remember that after the "clean up", the politicians had to come back to clean upthe even bigger mess.

So, any enlightening examples?

[MrJohnson]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

but Yingluck.......................

What democracy are you referring to JOC?

Democracy never existed in Thailand and I very much doubt that it will ever exist.

At least an effort is being made now to bring Thailand to a more civilized world with less corruption and better police force.

Ideals are for the masses, reality and common sense applies more to the right thinking person.

I have probably seen a more patronizing post on this forum but I just cannot remember when. Throughout history democracies - or something similar - have nearly all evolved through a process of conflict and difference. The system of patronage that currently exists in Thailand has existed in many other cultures but has been gradually been eroded and replaced by a better form of governance. The same thing can, and will occur in Thailand. However, the ruling elite guided by the army, will not give up their position easily. That is for sure. As far as Thailand 'being now made into a more civilized world with less corruption' - are you serious? The deck chairs are simply being re-arranged so that the 'rightful' recipients of corruption are back in place. Look back at Thai history and you will not see that corruption suddenly appeared with the election of Thaksin Shinawatra.

[JOC]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

but Yingluck.......................

What democracy are you referring to JOC?

Democracy never existed in Thailand and I very much doubt that it will ever exist.

At least an effort is being made now to bring Thailand to a more civilized world with less corruption and better police force.

Ideals are for the masses, reality and common sense applies more to the right thinking person.

Ideals are for the masses, reality and common sense applies more to the right thinking person.

I have long suspected it, and now you confirmed it, you are suffering from strongman-syndrome!!

Guess you miss the good old days when the Greek Colonels were in charge..................

[NongKhaiKid]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

but Yingluck.......................

What democracy are you referring to JOC?

Democracy never existed in Thailand and I very much doubt that it will ever exist.

At least an effort is being made now to bring Thailand to a more civilized world with less corruption and better police force.

Ideals are for the masses, reality and common sense applies more to the right thinking person.

A more civilised Thailand with less corruption and a better police force ?

Ah yes, that would be the other Thailand, you know the one in the parallel universe.

[ExPratt]

Sort of obvious that was on the cards. If it is going to be as blatant as the article implies then I think the next few years will see much unrest. Very sad , they had a chance to do something good for the people but it was never on their Agenda

[Fat Haggis]

Clearly, this article was written by someone who does not understand Thailand.

Yes, in other countries water will always flow downhill.

But Thailand is special.

But that water flowing in Thailand makes the Kool Aid taste mega!!

[Bluespunk]

"The charter has undergone more than a dozen rewrites in the last 80 years, either by democrats trying to consolidate parliamentary power"

Just the Democrats? Don't think so

"In the eyes of the country's elite, democratically elected politicians have ruined Thailand with populist policies and cronyism that lead the poor astray."

So AFP thinks populism and cronyism are good things?

"A year ago the veteran conservative was giving rousing speeches to crowds of protesters clamouring for the toppling of prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra and a military takeover.

Thailand's generals did just that in May."

Really? I thought yingluck had been removed before then.

AFP take on things, always at right angles to the truth, not lies {well not always} but never the whole truth.

[Fat Haggis]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

but Yingluck.......................

What democracy are you referring to JOC?

Democracy never existed in Thailand and I very much doubt that it will ever exist.

At least an effort is being made now to bring Thailand to a more civilized world with less corruption and better police force.

Ideals are for the masses, reality and common sense applies more to the right thinking person.

A more civilised Thailand with less corruption and a better police force ?

Ah yes, that would be the other Thailand, you know the one in the parallel universe.

Others might call that alternate Thailand ....Vietnam

Costas, what makes you believe Democracy never existed in Thailand? The 65,000,000 voters might disagree with you.

Democracy according to the disgruntled farangs never existed, because their views of democracy was different to what Thais see as democracy.

If Thailand is such a basket case, why are you living here?

[jpeg]

"The charter has undergone more than a dozen rewrites in the last 80 years, either by democrats trying to consolidate parliamentary power"

Just the Democrats? Don't think so

"In the eyes of the country's elite, democratically elected politicians have ruined Thailand with populist policies and cronyism that lead the poor astray."

So AFP thinks populism and cronyism are good things?

"A year ago the veteran conservative was giving rousing speeches to crowds of protesters clamouring for the toppling of prime minister Yingluck Shinawatra and a military takeover.

Thailand's generals did just that in May."

Really? I thought yingluck had been removed before then.

AFP take on things, always at right angles to the truth, not lies {well not always} but never the whole truth.

Whoever cites AFP as a credible 'news' source? Thaivisa and the predominantly 'mericun viewers on Yahoo 'News'

Edited March 27, 2015 by jpeg

[nidieunimaitre]

Clearly, this article was written by someone who does not understand Thailand.

Yes, in other countries water will always flow downhill.

But Thailand is special.

Costas, you liked this post...

I was being cynical.

I thought you understood that. Ah, another illusion lost.

[lildragon]

Democracy was broken and abused under the Shinwatras but it should of been the choice of the Thai people to vote them out. The growing pains of this kind of democracy has been interrupted so many times by interfering elites over the years that is hasn't had a chance to develop.

Junta cheer leaders on here. Read that article and tell us that would be the best for Thai people? That mass corruption didn't exist by these same elites before Thaksin was even on the political scene? This place will become a diet version of North Korea under these people and foreigners will be under even more scrutiny that we are presently. Be careful what you wish for, maybe stop listening to what your wives tell you to support and grow a set.

Mass political unrest will come to the fore again if these things start happening. Thai people aren't sheltered from the world anymore thanks to things like the Internet. The elites are a bunch of dinosaurs thinking they can still brainwash the masses. This will all lead to big trouble.

[JAG]

A new Thai constitution being drafted by the ruling junta is a throwback to an era when a royalist and military elite had a stranglehold on politics, analysts and politicians say, warning of dire consequences for democracy.

To all the junta lovers/ anti election posters here, please read the above twice and reconsider your support to the Thai elite!!

Your are supporting people and a system belonging in a long gone century!!

And cut your "but Yingluck" BS.

Exactly, why can't people see how the General will take this country back in to the dark ages.

And so true, you point it out to them and the morons go, what about Thaksin blablabla, he was so bad blablabla

Lost cause I'm afraid with some.

Last week one of them seriously posted that Thaksin was "the most evil person to come out of Asia"!

Edited March 27, 2015 by JAG

[nidieunimaitre]

151 users, including 17 members are reading this thread.

Yet, not a single answer to my question: Give me 1 example in world history of the army cleaning up the mess made by politicians.

[jayboy]

Like the Roman I am filled with foreboding.I see the River Tiber foaming with much blood.

[Laughing Gravy]

Clearly, this article was written by someone who does not understand Thailand.

Yes, in other countries water will always flow downhill.

But Thailand is special.

I disagree with you an believe you are totally wrong. Water (Democracy) flows the same way in any country provided people don't block it. It is this attitude that you have that has kept Thailand from blossoming into one of the best nations, if not the best in Asia. The country has rich resources but it is the attitude that you have written here, that has held it back.

[Fat Haggis]

The one thing that many of seem to forget, especially the likes of Costas, is that if we Farangs don't like the way things are going, we can always leave, the majority of the voting Thais cant!!

There isn't a single expat here being forced to live here, we have the choice to leave and go home.... the Thais don't.

[JAG]

Golden eras where the elites hold sway always seem to end in tears - elite tears.

The difference is this century that the Thai people have experienced the chance to choose their government on what, 4 occasions so far. They have seen their choice dismissed by the elite 3 out of those 4 times. As several here have already said,they now have access to an unrestricted means of communication and ideas in the internet. Sure the Junta could remove their access to the internet, but does anyone believe that such a move would be anything than the spark which would light a fuze?

The days of golden eras where elite hold sway have gone, and they if they come back it will only be temporary.

[lewy67]

How sad that the leaders of Thailand propose that the best option is anti modernisation, anti development, anti democracy and anti progress. Their best interests are served by maintaining a status quo that will see Thailand remain a third world country.

Twenty years ago I landed in the middle of a vigorous and robust debate, that all Thai's had a say in, which culminated in the 1997 peoples charter. The days of the military coup and even any military influence over civil society were said to be gone and optimism for a bright future for all was predominant.

But backwardness in the form of Prayuth, the NCPO and the Bangkok elite is in control now. How sad for the vast majority of the people.

[nidieunimaitre]

Clearly, this article was written by someone who does not understand Thailand.

Yes, in other countries water will always flow downhill.

But Thailand is special.

I disagree with you an believe you are totally wrong. Water (Democracy) flows the same way in any country provided people don't block it. It is this attitude that you have that has kept Thailand from blossoming into one of the best nations, if not the best in Asia. The country has rich resources but it is the attitude that you have written here, that has held it back.

Costas, you are not alone.

[lildragon]

Golden eras where the elites hold sway always seem to end in tears - elite tears.

The difference is this century that the Thai people have experienced the chance to choose their government on what, 4 occasions so far. They have seen their choice dismissed by the elite 3 out of those 4 times. As several here have already said,they now have access to an unrestricted means of communication and ideas in the internet. Sure the Junta could remove their access to the internet, but does anyone believe that such a move would be anything than the spark which would light a fuze?

The days of golden eras where elite hold sway have gone, and they if they come back it will only be temporary.

I remember the rumbles to just the RUMORS that facebook was banned (turned out to be a technical error). If the elites tried such a thing as internet restriction now that Thais from all spectrums have tried it, they'd have an uprising on their hands from Thais that used to support them, to ones that were ambivalent towards them and of course their many detractors.

But with their arrogance I wouldn't put it past them to try it.