Driving from Udon to Chiang Rai via Laos?

[cumgranosalum]

Again thanks for the info. My wife will have the passport, her car blue book and the purple book. But will she need her house register book as well? A Thai website told her she does need it however that seems a bit much.

I have no idea - my friend and his Thai wife came through in their car with me one time, but I don't remember her talking about anything like that - she just don't think she needed to pay for a VoA!

[ChaangNoi]

okay thanks, we will bring it just in case I guess.

[Tomtomtom69]

I would like to double check on this, my wife saw on some Thai website that to bring the SUV into Laos she would need to bring her house book. Is that correct? Just the purple book and her Thai ID is fine correct?

Thanks

No. The registration will be required though. A house book has nothing to do with the car and without the registration (title) you may not be allowed to cross. Lao customs doesn't care about the registration, they only need the car passport. But the registration/title is useful for purchasing the Lao third party insurance.

[Tomtomtom69]

As far as I can tell the Huey Xai border will be open every day even Sundays and Songkran from 6am to 10pm. If anyone could confirm that would be awesome.

Also can anyone give me a good estimation of how long it will take us to get all the paper work for the visa and the "car passport" on both sides of the boarder at Nong Khai? Is this like a 2 hour event or an all day event? We have a Thai car owned by a Thai and also farang. One of the Thai only has a ID card and no passport. The car owner has a passport.

Thank you.

So long as you have all your docs, it can be so quick, you get the feeling they've forgotten something. I normally think it takes 30 min to an hour to clear - about the longest is waiting for your passports to appear on the VoA window..

the first time you show up with a Car passport, I think you ave to go to an extra window which might take a little longer.

As pointed out, holiday traffic may make it longer.

i crossed Friendship 4 into Thailand on Boxing Day 2013 and there were only about 2 other vehicles there.......over in a flash!

PS - i'm wondering if there is a limit to how (or where) long a Thai person can enter on an ID card.

Yes 3 days and 2 nights and they can't leave the province they entered. So for the 4th friendship bridge, no travel outside of Bokeo is permitted. Better get them a passport, it's just 1000 Baht and takes no more than a couple of days. They'll even send it to their place. Much better than dealing with the border pass nonsense. Besides, after a few trips a passport pays for itself as border passes cost between 30 and 120 Baht depending on if you use an agent or not and which crossing you use.

[ChaangNoi]

As far as I can tell the Huey Xai border will be open every day even Sundays and Songkran from 6am to 10pm. If anyone could confirm that would be awesome.

Also can anyone give me a good estimation of how long it will take us to get all the paper work for the visa and the "car passport" on both sides of the boarder at Nong Khai? Is this like a 2 hour event or an all day event? We have a Thai car owned by a Thai and also farang. One of the Thai only has a ID card and no passport. The car owner has a passport.

Thank you.

So long as you have all your docs, it can be so quick, you get the feeling they've forgotten something. I normally think it takes 30 min to an hour to clear - about the longest is waiting for your passports to appear on the VoA window..

the first time you show up with a Car passport, I think you ave to go to an extra window which might take a little longer.

As pointed out, holiday traffic may make it longer.

i crossed Friendship 4 into Thailand on Boxing Day 2013 and there were only about 2 other vehicles there.......over in a flash!

PS - i'm wondering if there is a limit to how (or where) long a Thai person can enter on an ID card.

Yes 3 days and 2 nights and they can't leave the province they entered. So for the 4th friendship bridge, no travel outside of Bokeo is permitted. Better get them a passport, it's just 1000 Baht and takes no more than a couple of days. They'll even send it to their place. Much better than dealing with the border pass nonsense. Besides, after a few trips a passport pays for itself as border passes cost between 30 and 120 Baht depending on if you use an agent or not and which crossing you use.

We are bringing a Thai nanny who has an ID but no passport. In the past when my wife did not have a passport we were able to go to a special office and have the 3 day thing extended to 15 days and be able to take her to different areas of Laos. Will I not be able to do that now?

We are leaving tomorrow and no chance to get the passport this time around.

[Tomtomtom69]

As far as I can tell the Huey Xai border will be open every day even Sundays and Songkran from 6am to 10pm. If anyone could confirm that would be awesome.

Also can anyone give me a good estimation of how long it will take us to get all the paper work for the visa and the "car passport" on both sides of the boarder at Nong Khai? Is this like a 2 hour event or an all day event? We have a Thai car owned by a Thai and also farang. One of the Thai only has a ID card and no passport. The car owner has a passport.

Thank you.

So long as you have all your docs, it can be so quick, you get the feeling they've forgotten something. I normally think it takes 30 min to an hour to clear - about the longest is waiting for your passports to appear on the VoA window..

the first time you show up with a Car passport, I think you ave to go to an extra window which might take a little longer.

As pointed out, holiday traffic may make it longer.

i crossed Friendship 4 into Thailand on Boxing Day 2013 and there were only about 2 other vehicles there.......over in a flash!

PS - i'm wondering if there is a limit to how (or where) long a Thai person can enter on an ID card.

Yes 3 days and 2 nights and they can't leave the province they entered. So for the 4th friendship bridge, no travel outside of Bokeo is permitted. Better get them a passport, it's just 1000 Baht and takes no more than a couple of days. They'll even send it to their place. Much better than dealing with the border pass nonsense. Besides, after a few trips a passport pays for itself as border passes cost between 30 and 120 Baht depending on if you use an agent or not and which crossing you use.

We are bringing a Thai nanny who has an ID but no passport. In the past when my wife did not have a passport we were able to go to a special office and have the 3 day thing extended to 15 days and be able to take her to different areas of Laos. Will I not be able to do that now?

We are leaving tomorrow and no chance to get the passport this time around.

I have never heard of that being allowed. Normally border passes are only valid for the border province entered. You can take your Thai nanny but legally she won't be allowed to travel throughout the country.

[ChaangNoi]

I have never heard of that being allowed. Normally border passes are only valid for the border province entered. You can take your Thai nanny but legally she won't be allowed to travel throughout the country.

I talked to my wife about it. The Lao taxi guy sorted it out for us right at the boarder crossing in Vientiane. He got it changed to a 15 day pass and at least got her travel up to LPB. I don't know what he did but it took about 5 mins and not too much Baht. I really hope we can do something like this again. If not I don't know what we will do.

Will they just fine her as she tries to leave or will they arrest her?

[fullcave]

As far as I can tell the Huey Xai border will be open every day even Sundays and Songkran from 6am to 10pm. If anyone could confirm that would be awesome.

Also can anyone give me a good estimation of how long it will take us to get all the paper work for the visa and the "car passport" on both sides of the boarder at Nong Khai? Is this like a 2 hour event or an all day event? We have a Thai car owned by a Thai and also farang. One of the Thai only has a ID card and no passport. The car owner has a passport.

Thank you.

Coming into Thailand from Laos is a one hour event however entering Laos from Thailand takes about three hours depending on cue at immigration for visa..Nakhon Phanom crossing is much faster. However it's a 300 km detour {each way) unless you are going south..

[fullcave]

......

[cumgranosalum]

As far as I can tell the Huey Xai border will be open every day even Sundays and Songkran from 6am to 10pm. If anyone could confirm that would be awesome.

Also can anyone give me a good estimation of how long it will take us to get all the paper work for the visa and the "car passport" on both sides of the boarder at Nong Khai? Is this like a 2 hour event or an all day event? We have a Thai car owned by a Thai and also farang. One of the Thai only has a ID card and no passport. The car owner has a passport.

Thank you.

Coming into Thailand from Laos is a one hour event however entering Laos from Thailand takes about three hours depending on cue at immigration for visa..Nakhon Phanom crossing is much faster. However it's a 300 km detour {each way) unless you are going south..

I've crossed a five different places and several times at Vientiane - mostly New Year and Song Khran holiday - and not had to wait much at all.

However this time it will be very close to Sing Khran, so it is possible there may be some delays.

[ChaangNoi]

When I cross back in, it wont be at the same place I left out. I really can not see there being that much delay up North. Chinese new years is over but yeah some Laos will be coming in. We can do it first thing too if we need as we will be staying in the city.

[Tomtomtom69]

I have never heard of that being allowed. Normally border passes are only valid for the border province entered. You can take your Thai nanny but legally she won't be allowed to travel throughout the country.

I talked to my wife about it. The Lao taxi guy sorted it out for us right at the boarder crossing in Vientiane. He got it changed to a 15 day pass and at least got her travel up to LPB. I don't know what he did but it took about 5 mins and not too much Baht. I really hope we can do something like this again. If not I don't know what we will do.

Will they just fine her as she tries to leave or will they arrest her?

Most likely just a fine levied at the border crossing but arrest is possible if caught before the border, although it's highly unlikely.

Like I said I have never heard of getting a 15 day pass and leaving the border area being a possibility for border pass holders - in addition border pass holders are supposed to come back through the same border crossing they entered. I have heard of some special privileges just for Nong Khai residents (and possibly residents of other border provinces adjacent to Laos) who are able to get passes enabling multiple journeys/longer stays etc. but if a border pass was so flexible no Thai would bother with a passport. Therefore next time get her a passport as what you are doing this time is not legal. Border passes have always been for local travel in the vicinity of the border only hence why they are called border passes.

[Tomtomtom69]

As far as I can tell the Huey Xai border will be open every day even Sundays and Songkran from 6am to 10pm. If anyone could confirm that would be awesome.

Also can anyone give me a good estimation of how long it will take us to get all the paper work for the visa and the "car passport" on both sides of the boarder at Nong Khai? Is this like a 2 hour event or an all day event? We have a Thai car owned by a Thai and also farang. One of the Thai only has a ID card and no passport. The car owner has a passport.

Thank you.

Coming into Thailand from Laos is a one hour event however entering Laos from Thailand takes about three hours depending on cue at immigration for visa..Nakhon Phanom crossing is much faster. However it's a 300 km detour {each way) unless you are going south..

Apart from the visa on arrival counter, if you need a Lao visa, my experience has always been that coming INTO Thailand from Laos at the Vientiane/Nong Khai 1st Friendship Bridge crossing takes much longer than the other way around. 3 hours waiting at the Lao border? I don't think so...the worst might be 30-45 mins if you need a visa on arrival. For drivers of cars and visa-less travellers, the wait is usually far less long, about 15-20 minutes.

Coming back into Thailand at Nong Khai often takes a while because you have to stand in line at a number of different windows (if arriving by car). The first one gives you an immigration arrival/departure form and also does passenger conveyance forms for foreign registered (mostly Lao) vehicles. The second one stamps your passport and takes back your passenger conveyance form (for Thai vehicles) or prints out the customs temporary import form (for foreign registered vehicles). The third one takes back your customs temporary export form (for Thai vehicles) and stamps your car passport. This process can easily take an hour or longer during holiday periods. Again, arriving back late would be a good idea. Try coming back after around 7 or 8pm and the crowds will be gone.

You can avoid the queues by arriving late in the evening. 7-9.45pm is a good time to cross into Laos. Only minor disadvantage if you are driving a Thai or other foreign registered vehicle in and don't already have Lao insurance is you might have to purchase it the next day in town. I don't know what time the insurance offices close, but probably 5 or 6pm.

Other border crossings should be a breeze by comparison and may not have much traffic at all at any time of day.

There are numerous other crossings much closer to Nong Khai that can be used, rather than going all the way to Nakorn Phanom/Tha Khaek, some 335km from Vientiane. Beung Kan/Paksan is just 140km east of Nong Khai (and Vientiane) but you do need to go across using a car ferry if bringing your car. Still, there are almost no people or vehicles crossing and you can't cross during off-peak hours or weekends (except maybe if you charter a ferry) as the border is only open Mondays through Fridays from mid-morning to mid-afternoon and Saturday mornings.

Or you could try Ban Nakraseng (Tha Li)-Nam Heuang in Loei province, some 200 odd km east of Nong Khai. That crossing is open daily from 8am to 6pm I believe.

[cumgranosalum]

As far as I can tell the Huey Xai border will be open every day even Sundays and Songkran from 6am to 10pm. If anyone could confirm that would be awesome.

Also can anyone give me a good estimation of how long it will take us to get all the paper work for the visa and the "car passport" on both sides of the boarder at Nong Khai? Is this like a 2 hour event or an all day event? We have a Thai car owned by a Thai and also farang. One of the Thai only has a ID card and no passport. The car owner has a passport.

Thank you.

Coming into Thailand from Laos is a one hour event however entering Laos from Thailand takes about three hours depending on cue at immigration for visa..Nakhon Phanom crossing is much faster. However it's a 300 km detour {each way) unless you are going south..

Apart from the visa on arrival counter, if you need a Lao visa, my experience has always been that coming INTO Thailand from Laos at the Vientiane/Nong Khai 1st Friendship Bridge crossing takes much longer than the other way around. 3 hours waiting at the Lao border? I don't think so...the worst might be 30-45 mins if you need a visa on arrival. For drivers of cars and visa-less travellers, the wait is usually far less long, about 15-20 minutes.

Coming back into Thailand at Nong Khai often takes a while because you have to stand in line at a number of different windows (if arriving by car). The first one gives you an immigration arrival/departure form and also does passenger conveyance forms for foreign registered (mostly Lao) vehicles. The second one stamps your passport and takes back your passenger conveyance form (for Thai vehicles) or prints out the customs temporary import form (for foreign registered vehicles). The third one takes back your customs temporary export form (for Thai vehicles) and stamps your car passport. This process can easily take an hour or longer during holiday periods. Again, arriving back late would be a good idea. Try coming back after around 7 or 8pm and the crowds will be gone.

You can avoid the queues by arriving late in the evening. 7-9.45pm is a good time to cross into Laos. Only minor disadvantage if you are driving a Thai or other foreign registered vehicle in and don't already have Lao insurance is you might have to purchase it the next day in town. I don't know what time the insurance offices close, but probably 5 or 6pm.

Other border crossings should be a breeze by comparison and may not have much traffic at all at any time of day.

There are numerous other crossings much closer to Nong Khai that can be used, rather than going all the way to Nakorn Phanom/Tha Khaek, some 335km from Vientiane. Beung Kan/Paksan is just 140km east of Nong Khai (and Vientiane) but you do need to go across using a car ferry if bringing your car. Still, there are almost no people or vehicles crossing and you can't cross during off-peak hours or weekends (except maybe if you charter a ferry) as the border is only open Mondays through Fridays from mid-morning to mid-afternoon and Saturday mornings.

Or you could try Ban Nakraseng (Tha Li)-Nam Heuang in Loei province, some 200 odd km east of Nong Khai. That crossing is open daily from 8am to 6pm I believe.

I know this could be famous last words, but I have NEVER taken 3 hours to get over the Friendship bridge at Nong khai from - that includes the very first time i entered about 4 years ago.

last time on that crossing i stayed in Udon, I left at about 9.30am, by 12.30pm i was in my hotel in Vientiane..........

[Tomtomtom69]

As far as I can tell the Huey Xai border will be open every day even Sundays and Songkran from 6am to 10pm. If anyone could confirm that would be awesome.

Also can anyone give me a good estimation of how long it will take us to get all the paper work for the visa and the "car passport" on both sides of the boarder at Nong Khai? Is this like a 2 hour event or an all day event? We have a Thai car owned by a Thai and also farang. One of the Thai only has a ID card and no passport. The car owner has a passport.

Thank you.

Coming into Thailand from Laos is a one hour event however entering Laos from Thailand takes about three hours depending on cue at immigration for visa..Nakhon Phanom crossing is much faster. However it's a 300 km detour {each way) unless you are going south..

Apart from the visa on arrival counter, if you need a Lao visa, my experience has always been that coming INTO Thailand from Laos at the Vientiane/Nong Khai 1st Friendship Bridge crossing takes much longer than the other way around. 3 hours waiting at the Lao border? I don't think so...the worst might be 30-45 mins if you need a visa on arrival. For drivers of cars and visa-less travellers, the wait is usually far less long, about 15-20 minutes.

Coming back into Thailand at Nong Khai often takes a while because you have to stand in line at a number of different windows (if arriving by car). The first one gives you an immigration arrival/departure form and also does passenger conveyance forms for foreign registered (mostly Lao) vehicles. The second one stamps your passport and takes back your passenger conveyance form (for Thai vehicles) or prints out the customs temporary import form (for foreign registered vehicles). The third one takes back your customs temporary export form (for Thai vehicles) and stamps your car passport. This process can easily take an hour or longer during holiday periods. Again, arriving back late would be a good idea. Try coming back after around 7 or 8pm and the crowds will be gone.

You can avoid the queues by arriving late in the evening. 7-9.45pm is a good time to cross into Laos. Only minor disadvantage if you are driving a Thai or other foreign registered vehicle in and don't already have Lao insurance is you might have to purchase it the next day in town. I don't know what time the insurance offices close, but probably 5 or 6pm.

Other border crossings should be a breeze by comparison and may not have much traffic at all at any time of day.

There are numerous other crossings much closer to Nong Khai that can be used, rather than going all the way to Nakorn Phanom/Tha Khaek, some 335km from Vientiane. Beung Kan/Paksan is just 140km east of Nong Khai (and Vientiane) but you do need to go across using a car ferry if bringing your car. Still, there are almost no people or vehicles crossing and you can't cross during off-peak hours or weekends (except maybe if you charter a ferry) as the border is only open Mondays through Fridays from mid-morning to mid-afternoon and Saturday mornings.

Or you could try Ban Nakraseng (Tha Li)-Nam Heuang in Loei province, some 200 odd km east of Nong Khai. That crossing is open daily from 8am to 6pm I believe.

I know this could be famous last words, but I have NEVER taken 3 hours to get over the Friendship bridge at Nong khai from - that includes the very first time i entered about 4 years ago.

last time on that crossing i stayed in Udon, I left at about 9.30am, by 12.30pm i was in my hotel in Vientiane..........

Sorry for the typo above, Tha Li is naturally WEST of Nong Khai, not east.

You're right, I think anyone who thinks it would take three hours to cross the bridge especially from the Thai to the Lao side, doesn't know what they are talking about. It's almost always quicker in that direction, especially coming with a vehicle, and even if you need a visa on arrival. The queues on the Thai side can be legendary. Whether you are a bus passenger or a passenger/driving your own vehicle, you almost always have to wait a while these days if you arrive on the Thai side anytime during the day as there's always a lot of Thai and Lao people crossing. Waits of about an hour are not uncommon, though usually not longer than this.

[cumgranosalum]

I crossed at Tha Li at New Year - lovely crossing but not very convenient for anywhere....except Xayabouri. the road along the Mekong to Vientiane is unmetalled for most of the way....was extremely dusty and rattly.

The road to Xyrabouri was fine - I believe there is a new crossing just up from the Thai Li crossing now.

[Tomtomtom69]

I crossed at Tha Li at New Year - lovely crossing but not very convenient for anywhere....except Xayabouri. the road along the Mekong to Vientiane is unmetalled for most of the way....was extremely dusty and rattly.

The road to Xyrabouri was fine - I believe there is a new crossing just up from the Thai Li crossing now.

Actually, the Tha Li crossing is most ideal for Bangkok residents heading to Luang Prabang. Not only is it much shorter, but the road on the Lao side is less busy, less winding and wider than that horrible winding road between Vang Vieng and Luang Prabang, which is not for the faint hearted.

The road along the border from Nam Heuang to Vientiane is about 200km and travels along the Mekong most of the way. Just over 2 weeks ago, I crossed from the new Phu Doo crossing on an excellent road to Paklay, 32km away followed by a car ferry across the Mekong, which will eventually be replaced by a bridge under construction by Vietnamese contractors. After that, it's a narrow but decent road down to Xanakham, after which the road generally widens but is dusty and rattly as you say, until somewhere near the township of Nasa. Somewhere around the 62km mark from Vientiane and after crossing a bridge, the road suddenly becomes excellent as the Thai construction company that built that road have finally finished it. Only 2 years ago to the day I drove across this road in the other direction, and it was a dusty mess starting at the intersection of route 13N inside Vientiane! Now it takes just 40min or so to reach Vientiane from the start of the new section of road.

If you're coming from Nam Heuang, there's a horrible dirt/sand road stretching 50km from Kaenthao to Xanakham. It's generally not marked on any maps and you'll need a 4wd. I drove it 2 years ago. There's a ferry crossing the Mekong there too and you can avoid heading up to Paklay first only to come down again.

[cumgranosalum]

After Vang Vieng they were building a new road from Kasi that connects to the 4 which runs to LP from Xayabouri - but you're right, it's about 100 k shorter via Tha Li.

i drove to Vientiane via Paklay (inc ferry) just after Xmas. I did it at night when they were still building it...so no idea what it was like really.

i don't mind wet roads (little wet) but I hate those dusty rattly ones - if you go too fast you just cover every village and villager in dust and go slow and you feel every stone and pebble.

I didn't venture beyond Xayabouri last time and this time I think I have passengers who want to go to Vientiane at some point and Kong Lor Caves, and I want to go to Udon.

We'll do some kind of loop anyway.............

[Tomtomtom69]

After Vang Vieng they were building a new road from Kasi that connects to the 4 which runs to LP from Xayabouri - but you're right, it's about 100 k shorter via Tha Li.

i drove to Vientiane via Paklay (inc ferry) just after Xmas. I did it at night when they were still building it...so no idea what it was like really.

i don't mind wet roads (little wet) but I hate those dusty rattly ones - if you go too fast you just cover every village and villager in dust and go slow and you feel every stone and pebble.

I didn't venture beyond Xayabouri last time and this time I think I have passengers who want to go to Vientiane at some point and Kong Lor Caves, and I want to go to Udon.

We'll do some kind of loop anyway.............

Not the best idea to travel that road at night...the finished sections are fine to travel anytime, but the dusty and gravel sections don't have any lighting and if you get stuck in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night, nobody will be there to help you for a long time, possibly not until morning.

Having said that it started to get dark when I negotiated the Vientiane-Kaenthao road, but only the last 20-30 mins were in the dark so that wasn't a big deal. But that was definitely a very lonely road and don't know anyone else who's ever driven that last 53km stretch as it's not even on most maps, as I've already stated.

I'd say definitely try going up past Sayaburi to Luang Prabang and then looping down on route 7 I think it is to Phonsavan and the Plain of Jars and then there's a road down to Paksan where you join route 13S down to Tha Khaek for caves etc. Can exit there for Thailand and it's not too far from Udon. There was some mention of security issues along the road from Xieng Khuang to Paksan but it's probably OK these days, especially if you go during the day. Then again it wasn't much more than 10 years ago the same thing was said about the Kasi to Luang Prabang sector, which is now safe from a security standpoint. In fact in 2003 on my first trip to Laos, I travelled on a night bus all the way from Udomxai, where I had connected from Luang Nam Tha in order to travel to Vientiane (yes a really long haul to be doing in one go!) and recall reading in the newspapers about the Hmong attack on a bus that also killed 2 Swiss cyclists travelling on that stretch of road just days after I passed through, maybe 2-3 days later. Don't know what time of day that happened, although it would be foolish to ride a bike along largely unlit narrow, winding mountainous roads after dark.

[cumgranosalum]

After Vang Vieng they were building a new road from Kasi that connects to the 4 which runs to LP from Xayabouri - but you're right, it's about 100 k shorter via Tha Li.

i drove to Vientiane via Paklay (inc ferry) just after Xmas. I did it at night when they were still building it...so no idea what it was like really.

i don't mind wet roads (little wet) but I hate those dusty rattly ones - if you go too fast you just cover every village and villager in dust and go slow and you feel every stone and pebble.

I didn't venture beyond Xayabouri last time and this time I think I have passengers who want to go to Vientiane at some point and Kong Lor Caves, and I want to go to Udon.

We'll do some kind of loop anyway.............

Not the best idea to travel that road at night...the finished sections are fine to travel anytime, but the dusty and gravel sections don't have any lighting and if you get stuck in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night, nobody will be there to help you for a long time, possibly not until morning.

Having said that it started to get dark when I negotiated the Vientiane-Kaenthao road, but only the last 20-30 mins were in the dark so that wasn't a big deal. But that was definitely a very lonely road and don't know anyone else who's ever driven that last 53km stretch as it's not even on most maps, as I've already stated.

I'd say definitely try going up past Sayaburi to Luang Prabang and then looping down on route 7 I think it is to Phonsavan and the Plain of Jars and then there's a road down to Paksan where you join route 13S down to Tha Khaek for caves etc. Can exit there for Thailand and it's not too far from Udon. There was some mention of security issues along the road from Xieng Khuang to Paksan but it's probably OK these days, especially if you go during the day. Then again it wasn't much more than 10 years ago the same thing was said about the Kasi to Luang Prabang sector, which is now safe from a security standpoint. In fact in 2003 on my first trip to Laos, I travelled on a night bus all the way from Udomxai, where I had connected from Luang Nam Tha in order to travel to Vientiane (yes a really long haul to be doing in one go!) and recall reading in the newspapers about the Hmong attack on a bus that also killed 2 Swiss cyclists travelling on that stretch of road just days after I passed through, maybe 2-3 days later. Don't know what time of day that happened, although it would be foolish to ride a bike along largely unlit narrow, winding mountainous roads after dark.

When I travelled that road at night it was because it wasn't opened until 5.30 as they were still working on it. there was as a result a large amount of backed up traffic. I was fortunate enough to hook up with a couple of guys who worked for Caterpillar and were having coolant problems with their truck.....I helped them out with my reserve can of water. So the main problem was not the road, it was just I couldn't see much outside of what was in front of me....I do have some good spots though.

[Tomtomtom69]

After Vang Vieng they were building a new road from Kasi that connects to the 4 which runs to LP from Xayabouri - but you're right, it's about 100 k shorter via Tha Li.

i drove to Vientiane via Paklay (inc ferry) just after Xmas. I did it at night when they were still building it...so no idea what it was like really.

i don't mind wet roads (little wet) but I hate those dusty rattly ones - if you go too fast you just cover every village and villager in dust and go slow and you feel every stone and pebble.

I didn't venture beyond Xayabouri last time and this time I think I have passengers who want to go to Vientiane at some point and Kong Lor Caves, and I want to go to Udon.

We'll do some kind of loop anyway.............

Not the best idea to travel that road at night...the finished sections are fine to travel anytime, but the dusty and gravel sections don't have any lighting and if you get stuck in the middle of nowhere in the middle of the night, nobody will be there to help you for a long time, possibly not until morning.

Having said that it started to get dark when I negotiated the Vientiane-Kaenthao road, but only the last 20-30 mins were in the dark so that wasn't a big deal. But that was definitely a very lonely road and don't know anyone else who's ever driven that last 53km stretch as it's not even on most maps, as I've already stated.

I'd say definitely try going up past Sayaburi to Luang Prabang and then looping down on route 7 I think it is to Phonsavan and the Plain of Jars and then there's a road down to Paksan where you join route 13S down to Tha Khaek for caves etc. Can exit there for Thailand and it's not too far from Udon. There was some mention of security issues along the road from Xieng Khuang to Paksan but it's probably OK these days, especially if you go during the day. Then again it wasn't much more than 10 years ago the same thing was said about the Kasi to Luang Prabang sector, which is now safe from a security standpoint. In fact in 2003 on my first trip to Laos, I travelled on a night bus all the way from Udomxai, where I had connected from Luang Nam Tha in order to travel to Vientiane (yes a really long haul to be doing in one go!) and recall reading in the newspapers about the Hmong attack on a bus that also killed 2 Swiss cyclists travelling on that stretch of road just days after I passed through, maybe 2-3 days later. Don't know what time of day that happened, although it would be foolish to ride a bike along largely unlit narrow, winding mountainous roads after dark.

When I travelled that road at night it was because it wasn't opened until 5.30 as they were still working on it. there was as a result a large amount of backed up traffic. I was fortunate enough to hook up with a couple of guys who worked for Caterpillar and were having coolant problems with their truck.....I helped them out with my reserve can of water. So the main problem was not the road, it was just I couldn't see much outside of what was in front of me....I do have some good spots though.

That's interesting because when I travelled along it, which was exactly 2 years ago yesterday as I mentioned then (April 6, 2013, I still remember the date) the construction work was going on all day but had just started out so there weren't any restrictions you could just go past it anytime. And just over 2 weeks ago I was surprised to find it completely finished, sounds like they just managed to finish it in the 3 months between your visit and mine.

[user643543]

we will travel tomorrow from chiang rai to thung chang (marco at siamgarden for sure - nice place) - then the next day up north near laos-border but driving down the 1081 and continue the 1068 and 1243 to the bordercrossing over to pak lay - then on the 4 to xayaboury and then luang prabang via the new road (4) - then back from LP via the old road (13) via kasi to vang vieng and to VTE, from there along the mekhong on laos-side to the border crossing back in kenethao-tha li and loei.

somebody know the opening hours thai/lao-side immigration in PHU DOO and THA LI?

any recommdations about lodging/good foods places in PAK LAY - XAYABOURY - LP - VTE or on these routes?

or new facts about the road conditions?

we have 4x4 car this time

thanks the experts for any reply and informations!

[Tomtomtom69]

we will travel tomorrow from chiang rai to thung chang (marco at siamgarden for sure - nice place) - then the next day up north near laos-border but driving down the 1081 and continue the 1068 and 1243 to the bordercrossing over to pak lay - then on the 4 to xayaboury and then luang prabang via the new road (4) - then back from LP via the old road (13) via kasi to vang vieng and to VTE, from there along the mekhong on laos-side to the border crossing back in kenethao-tha li and loei.

somebody know the opening hours thai/lao-side immigration in PHU DOO and THA LI?

any recommdations about lodging/good foods places in PAK LAY - XAYABOURY - LP - VTE or on these routes?

or new facts about the road conditions?

we have 4x4 car this time

thanks the experts for any reply and informations!

Yes - you asked the right person. I have been across both Phu doo and Tha Li by car, the latter i have crossed both in a Thai car and Lao car.

Although the Phu doo crossing is less well known and newly opened (it only opened in February and I was one of the first foreigners to cross it in late March) it actually strangely has longer opening hours than the nearby busier Tha Li crossing. Phu doo opens from 6am to 8pm BUT don't do what I did and only cross at 6.40pm (on a Sunday too), because the Lao side will have their gates closed at that time, despite claiming they are open until 8pm! I would recommend only crossing until 6pm at the very latest, but preferably no later than 5pm. Unless you have the patience to do what I did, which was wait for 15 mins, occasionally flashing my lights while waiting for a Lao border guard to come and open the gate for me. I was about to give up, head back to the Thai side, stay at the guesthouse near the border and cross again the following morning but in the last minute someone came, which was good. Strangely, 3 Thai engineers working on the nearby Sayaburi dam were heading back to Uttaradit at 7.30pm, and they knew very well that the border closes at 8pm but I was surprised that they only showed up on the Lao side for outbound border formalities at that time, because it was really quiet and nobody else came or went there for an hour.

Tha Li is open from 8am to 6pm, despite being a much busier crossing (though by no means busy) and also the crossing used by the daily Loei-Luang Prabang international bus, which on the way back from Luang Prabang only passes through the border around 5pm or a little later.

Lodging in Paklay is OK, nothing special. The guesthouse I stayed at twice (pretty much the best option in town) was called "Si Champa guesthouse" 400 Baht or 100,000 Kip per night including wifi but no breakfast, except free tea and coffee. Places to eat, try donut restaurant in town near the river (but not on the river itself).

There are better options in Sayaburi, but apart from lunch and a quick visit to the market we didn't linger there as it was too far to reach Sayaburi in one day from Bangkok, particularly since we didn't leave Bangkok that early and so only ended up in Paklay. One a previous visit, coming across the Phu Doo crossing I started in Mae Sot, which is much closer distance wise but takes nearly as long due to the winding roads in Uttaradit province leading up to the border crossing.

Kaenthao has a couple of places to stay and eat. No particular recommendations, I stayed at some random local guesthouse (240 Baht or 60,000 Kip/night) on the main road. Be careful near the border crossing as there are two non-signposted roads, if you turn left that's the one you want and it has a sign "Nam Heuang international crossing" on the right hand side, but if you were to go straight, the road goes to some village called "Boten" or "Botene", same name as the more well known international crossing into China in northern Laos, but not related at all. There are also no people nearby to ask for directions so unless you have a good map, can hopefully read Lao (or are travelling with someone who can) or if you are lucky enough to have a GPS for Laos (these are rare) there's a chance you might get lost but it shouldn't take too long to figure out the right way to the border. It's 7km from Kaenthao, just in case.

LP and VTE - too many places to recommend. Try looking on Agoda, but if we're talking about food try "Le Vendome" French restaurant in Vientiane, and "L'Elephant" French/fusion Lao in Luang Prabang. The latter is a bit pricey, but not excessively so, while the former is downright cheap, especially around lunchtime when you can get a set lunch for just 22,000 Kip or 88 Baht.

Xanakham (Sanakham) west of Vientiane also has some accommodation options if you need somewhere to spend the night before heading across to Nam Heuang/Tha Li. Again, nothing particular to recommend there as it's just a small, dusty (or muddy) town with a wide main road near the junction of the Mekong and Nam Heuang rivers. With a 4x4 you could continue on the unmarked, gravel/dirt road I took to Kaenthao, just 53km away, BUT during the rainy season and with no ability to speak/read Lao you might want to reconsider that option and instead take the 100km plus, mostly paved road via Paklay instead. When I went it was the dry season and no matter which way you go, there's a ferry crossing.

Road conditions - from Phu Du to Paklay excellent new 32km Thai built road with reflective lights and generous shoulders, a bit winding but just like any road in Thailand or even the west - surprisingly the road on the Lao side is in better condition than on the Thai side, at least as far as the short stretch between the two border posts are concerned - the Thai side is a potholed mess, the Lao side is brand new tarmac and well signposted. Tha Li to Paklay (68km) and onto Luang Prabang via Sayaburi on route 4, generally pretty good, a bit winding and narrow in places, but not excessively so. Relatively flat and straight before Sayaburi. A couple of winding stretches about halfway from Paklay to Sayaburi and north of Sayaburi towards Luang Prabang in particular, where you might encounter rock slides in the rainy season, but overall the road is in much better condition, is wider and with less traffic (in particular, fewer trucks and buses) than the main Luang Prabang to Vang Vieng/Vientiane highway route 13N. Unless you don't mind narrow, winding mountainous stretches that seem to continue forever, I'd actually recommend going back towards Sayaburi and taking the new road to Kasi and then Vang Vieng, rather than bothering with mountainous route 13N that goes via Phu Khoun into the Hmong inhabited mountains. That road could see land slides and rock falls, depending on the amount of rainfall although it is the main north-south highway hence it will generally be in use, unless temporarily blocked by either an act of nature or an accident. Of course it's very scenic, but personally having driven it a few times, I know better to avoid it, as the other route from Kasi to route 4 and onto Luang Prabang (or coming from the other direction) is faster, is in better condition and therefore safer to travel on.

Route 13N from Kasi via Vang Vieng down to Vientiane is still winding, but it gets a lot better south of Vang Vieng, with the last 80km into Vientiane from Phon hong being mostly straight and relatively flat. The first 62km stretch of road west of Vientiane towards Xanakham (Sanakham) and Paklay is in excellent condition, recently completed by a Thai company. I would expect that the stretches further west will eventually be smoothed out and upgraded in the same manner, before long there should be a new road all the way to Paklay at least, though not just yet. However, for now, the tarmac narrows considerably west of Nasa after the newly upgraded stretch ends, with numerous one way bridges along the way.

[user643543]

thanks alot ttt69 - super - hope to meet you one day on the roads in paradise! very helpfull infos!

and yes - we like the beautiful road between LP and VV on the 13 - it will be this time good excercise for my love to drive this part - as she will drive all the 2500 km this time...!

we are travelling so far since more then 20 years in laos - by boat - by motorbike - by car - by public transports from north to south and east to west and back - but always are many parts left, we don't know yet...!

will share later our experience this time in this forum!

BTW - if you pass one day thung chang - north from nan - stay for the night or more at siamgarden dot org - marco and his wife dao - only 5 bungalows - so reservation would be fine!

we are waiting for the pasta tonight and vino rosso!

[Tomtomtom69]

thanks alot ttt69 - super - hope to meet you one day on the roads in paradise! very helpfull infos!

and yes - we like the beautiful road between LP and VV on the 13 - it will be this time good excercise for my love to drive this part - as she will drive all the 2500 km this time...!

we are travelling so far since more then 20 years in laos - by boat - by motorbike - by car - by public transports from north to south and east to west and back - but always are many parts left, we don't know yet...!

will share later our experience this time in this forum!

BTW - if you pass one day thung chang - north from nan - stay for the night or more at siamgarden dot org - marco and his wife dao - only 5 bungalows - so reservation would be fine!

we are waiting for the pasta tonight and vino rosso!

Sounds great, have a good one!

Yes, I'd love to pass through Thung Chang into Laos (or out of) one day fairly soon. I'll keep your accommodation recommendation in mind!

[user643543]

thanks all for the very helpfull infos - special to ttt69 ;-) - short report about road conditions and more (mid july 2015):

thailand:

up from NAN to PHOU DOU border checkpoint via 101-1083-1123 and 1241 (some kms before border - at checkpoint turn LEFT then RIGHT - NOT follow the signs - it's much longer!) with almost no traffic on a road in excellent condition, arriving 5.30 pm at thai-immigration - VIP-service - we were alone - very friendly and efficient - arriving laos-side - same same - all young people doing service - very friendly and fast - arriving in pak lay about 7 pm.

no service fee on thai-side - on laos side a total of 320 baht was paid.

both side confirmed open till 8 pm!

next morning bought insurance for our car in pak lay.

drive to xayaboury and luang prabang on a good road (4) - some works on the mekhong-bridge and before the bridge police check about car-papers and insurance!!!

luang prabang stay at the wonderful http://thongbay-guesthouses.com/- best deal in luang prabang for us - owend by swiss (who else...?! ;-)

from luang prabang to VTE on the 13 - for us one of the most scenic and most beautiful trips in laos - even it was cloudy and sometimes not the best view into the mountain-area!

but surprise surprise - they did almost 99 % of the before sometimes pot-hole-road all the repairs - it's now in a very good condition - one stop for 15 minutes stop due to some roadwork - and about 500 metres after phou voun is not yet repaired!

stayed one night in vang vieng - surprise for us too - it's crowded with tourists - hard to find a hotel!

unfortunately only heavy rain - so no trips to caves etc. - next time again...!

from VANG VIENG to VTE - good road.

will continue tomorrow along the mekhong on laos-side to tha li and loei - will try the part between xanamkham and kenethan as we have a 4x4-car now!

here the tracks for those who are interested

Autofahren beendet: 16.07.2015 21:27:01
Route: 16.07.15 THUNG CHANG - PAK LAY

(missing short part due to battery problems!
Explorer Link: http://walkmeter.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Car-20150716-0727
Import Link:
http://share.abvio.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Walkmeter-Car-20150716-0727.kml
Fahrtzeit: 7:02:59
Pausenzeit: 6:56:52
Wegstrecke: 334.23 km
Durchschnitt: 47.41 km/h
Schnellste Geschwindigkeit: 123.89 km/h
Aufstieg: 5531
Abstieg: 5664

---

Route: 17.07.15 PAK LAY - LUANG PRABANG

Aktivität: Autofahren

Explorer Link: http://walkmeter.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Car-20150717-0753

Import Link: http://share.abvio.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Walkmeter-Car-20150717-0753.kml

Begonnen: 17.07.2015 07:53:35

Fahrtzeit: 5:05:17

Pausenzeit: 5:30:10

Wegstrecke: 287.88 km

Durchschnittliche Geschwindigkeit: 56.58 km/h

Schnellste Geschwindigkeit: 114.45 km/h

Aufstieg: 2619

Abstieg: 2557

---

Route: 19.07.15 LUANG PRABANG - VANG VIENG

Aktivität: Autofahren

Explorer Link: http://walkmeter.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Car-20150719-0900

Import Link: http://share.abvio.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Walkmeter-Car-20150719-0900.kml

Begonnen: 19.07.2015 09:00:24

Fahrtzeit: 5:04:16

Pausenzeit: 1:58:21

Wegstrecke: 233.58 km

Durchschnittliche Geschwindigkeit: 46.06 km/h

Schnellste Geschwindigkeit: 104.25 km/h

Aufstieg: 3584

Abstieg: 3622

---

Autofahren beendet: 20.07.2015 16:50:06

Route: 20.07.15 VANG VIENG - VIENTIANE

Explorer Link: http://walkmeter.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Car-20150720-0944

Import Link: http://share.abvio.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Walkmeter-Car-20150720-0944.kml

Fahrtzeit: 3:16:59

Pausenzeit: 3:48:02

Wegstrecke: 159.81 km

Durchschnitt: 48.68 km/h

Schnellste Geschwindigkeit: 95.60 km/h

Aufstieg: 1009

Abstieg: 1068

[Tomtomtom69]

thanks all for the very helpfull infos - special to ttt69 ;-) - short report about road conditions and more (mid july 2015):

thailand:

up from NAN to PHOU DOU border checkpoint via 101-1083-1123 and 1241 (some kms before border - at checkpoint turn LEFT then RIGHT - NOT follow the signs - it's much longer!) with almost no traffic on a road in excellent condition, arriving 5.30 pm at thai-immigration - VIP-service - we were alone - very friendly and efficient - arriving laos-side - same same - all young people doing service - very friendly and fast - arriving in pak lay about 7 pm.

no service fee on thai-side - on laos side a total of 320 baht was paid.

both side confirmed open till 8 pm!

next morning bought insurance for our car in pak lay.

drive to xayaboury and luang prabang on a good road (4) - some works on the mekhong-bridge and before the bridge police check about car-papers and insurance!!!

luang prabang stay at the wonderful http://thongbay-guesthouses.com/- best deal in luang prabang for us - owend by swiss (who else...?! ;-)

from luang prabang to VTE on the 13 - for us one of the most scenic and most beautiful trips in laos - even it was cloudy and sometimes not the best view into the mountain-area!

but surprise surprise - they did almost 99 % of the before sometimes pot-hole-road all the repairs - it's now in a very good condition - one stop for 15 minutes stop due to some roadwork - and about 500 metres after phou voun is not yet repaired!

stayed one night in vang vieng - surprise for us too - it's crowded with tourists - hard to find a hotel!

unfortunately only heavy rain - so no trips to caves etc. - next time again...!

from VANG VIENG to VTE - good road.

will continue tomorrow along the mekhong on laos-side to tha li and loei - will try the part between xanamkham and kenethan as we have a 4x4-car now!

here the tracks for those who are interested

Autofahren beendet: 16.07.2015 21:27:01

Route: 16.07.15 THUNG CHANG - PAK LAY

(missing short part due to battery problems!

Explorer Link: http://walkmeter.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Car-20150716-0727

Import Link:

http://share.abvio.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Walkmeter-Car-20150716-0727.kml

Fahrtzeit: 7:02:59

Pausenzeit: 6:56:52

Wegstrecke: 334.23 km

Durchschnitt: 47.41 km/h

Schnellste Geschwindigkeit: 123.89 km/h

Aufstieg: 5531

Abstieg: 5664

---

Route: 17.07.15 PAK LAY - LUANG PRABANG

Aktivität: Autofahren

Explorer Link: http://walkmeter.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Car-20150717-0753

Import Link: http://share.abvio.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Walkmeter-Car-20150717-0753.kml

Begonnen: 17.07.2015 07:53:35

Fahrtzeit: 5:05:17

Pausenzeit: 5:30:10

Wegstrecke: 287.88 km

Durchschnittliche Geschwindigkeit: 56.58 km/h

Schnellste Geschwindigkeit: 114.45 km/h

Aufstieg: 2619

Abstieg: 2557

---

Route: 19.07.15 LUANG PRABANG - VANG VIENG

Aktivität: Autofahren

Explorer Link: http://walkmeter.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Car-20150719-0900

Import Link: http://share.abvio.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Walkmeter-Car-20150719-0900.kml

Begonnen: 19.07.2015 09:00:24

Fahrtzeit: 5:04:16

Pausenzeit: 1:58:21

Wegstrecke: 233.58 km

Durchschnittliche Geschwindigkeit: 46.06 km/h

Schnellste Geschwindigkeit: 104.25 km/h

Aufstieg: 3584

Abstieg: 3622

---

Autofahren beendet: 20.07.2015 16:50:06

Route: 20.07.15 VANG VIENG - VIENTIANE

Explorer Link: http://walkmeter.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Car-20150720-0944

Import Link: http://share.abvio.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Walkmeter-Car-20150720-0944.kml

Fahrtzeit: 3:16:59

Pausenzeit: 3:48:02

Wegstrecke: 159.81 km

Durchschnitt: 48.68 km/h

Schnellste Geschwindigkeit: 95.60 km/h

Aufstieg: 1009

Abstieg: 1068

Sounds like you are Swiss (without knowing this beforehand) based on you entering via the new Phu Doo crossing, which I've also used before, back in March. The reason I point this out is that Phu Doo does not yet offer a VOA on the Lao side but visa exempt nationalities (such as Thais, other ASEAN nationals and Swiss, Russians, Koreans etc.) can just show up without pre-arranging a visa. Interesting that you chose this border having come from Thung Chang, where there is a border nearby that is quite close to Luang Prabang, but I guess you wanted to drive the Lao part inside Saiyabuli province.

Although it's rare for police to check car temporary import papers and insurance, it can happen. Happened to me in Bangkok driving a Lao car the first time I drove into Bangkok from Laos, but never again since then. Since there is no possibility to purchase insurance at the Phu Doo checkpoint (and it might be a similar story at some other smaller border crossings) it's best not to travel too far outside of the nearest town prior to purchasing an insurance policy, as you don't want to risk problems driving around uninsured, especially if there's an accident or in case of police checks, where you could be fined.

Vang Vieng. Just came back from there, stayed overnight for one night from Sunday to Monday - we also drove back to Vientiane (and then Khon Kaen) on the same day as you (20th July) - I passed a few Thai cars but didn't see yours, LOL (although we arrived in VTE around 3pm whereas it says you arrived around 4.50pm). Heavy rain at times, but we still decided to go kanoeing anyway. Unfortunately, the Korean package tourists staying at our hotel were a handful: noisy and just inconsiderate - there was even a couple who decided to go for a swim in the pool at 2 or 3am in the morning, splashing around, laughing (especially the female) and just being damn rude and selfish. Not to mention that the advertised internet didn't work, the breakfast was rubbish (just fried rice, 2-3 pieces of fruit left for flies to gather around and some OKish noodle soup), the cable TV channels (from True) had a notice that payment needs to be made within 24 hours covering the screen making watching any cable channels unbearable, not to mention the poorish reception and it was WAYYYY overpriced for what you get. Never again will I stay at that hotel, there are plenty of others which have a more diverse demographic and not full of tour groups, with better amenities and many of which are cheaper!

Unfortunately, booking at short notice all the good hotels were full and then it became a struggle to choose the right one - I probably shouldn't have believed this Dutch guy who posted a review on Agoda that another hotel in town, the Inthira, which mostly had good reviews was noisy due to a nightclub or bar nearby hence my decision to choose another hotel. We bought some fruit outside there just before heading back to our hotel slightly before 8pm and noticed no evidence of any music - it was the other bars closer to the riverside that played some loudish music, but nothing near the Inthira. But if you ask me what's more irritating, noisy tour groups or music, I'd much rather have the music, which eventually dies down anyway.

[user643543]

Sounds like you are Swiss (without knowing this beforehand) based on you entering via the new Phu Doo crossing, which I've also used before, back in March. The reason I point this out is that Phu Doo does not yet offer a VOA on the Lao side but visa exempt nationalities (such as Thais, other ASEAN nationals and Swiss, Russians, Koreans etc.) can just show up without pre-arranging a visa. Interesting that you chose this border having come from Thung Chang, where there is a border nearby that is quite close to Luang Prabang, but I guess you wanted to drive the Lao part inside Saiyabuli province.

Although it's rare for police to check car temporary import papers and insurance, it can happen. Happened to me in Bangkok driving a Lao car the first time I drove into Bangkok from Laos, but never again since then. Since there is no possibility to purchase insurance at the Phu Doo checkpoint (and it might be a similar story at some other smaller border crossings) it's best not to travel too far outside of the nearest town prior to purchasing an insurance policy, as you don't want to risk problems driving around uninsured, especially if there's an accident or in case of police checks, where you could be fined.

Vang Vieng. Just came back from there, stayed overnight for one night from Sunday to Monday - we also drove back to Vientiane (and then Khon Kaen) on the same day as you (20th July) - I passed a few Thai cars but didn't see yours, LOL (although we arrived in VTE around 3pm whereas it says you arrived around 4.50pm).

YES - i am still SWISS - very proud swiss - original - there are still some left....

and you?

ok - it's hard to follow me on the roads in laos - maybe you saw a blue fast blizzard overtaking you...this was me....MAZDA CX-5 AWD-XDL with 200 horsepower! - thai-plates (1969!!!)

no and we arrived monday in VTE about same time you - but i take all the time the very muddy-dirt road along the mekhong (see track below!) - having some beers and more at the KHONG VIEW restaurant - the best! and then drove to our hotel/guesthouse - out of the center - VILLA SISAVAD - with nice pool for only 15 dollars/night! parking free and fast wifi!

and yes - it was hard to find a bed in vang vieng sunday afternoon - our favorites all full - so we took the big hotel just near the bank coming from north heading left - not in the center - good room - fast internet - clean - cheap! forgot the name sorry!

and due to the rain - only 1 night - no tubing - this is just for tourists hehe....!

staying 2 nights in VTE - then took the road along the mekhong (laos side) - towards XENAMKHAN - the first 60 kms perfect - then about 20 kms not bad - then about 10-15 kms very bad road - from pothole to pothole - was raining too - and all wet - then some kms before xenamkhan - right side - big restaurant - farang (foreigner) in front of this house - a dutch guy - mr. somsak (rené) who opens there a restaurant 6 months ago - good beers - excellent food (him is a cook!) - frikandel special - gesaute haring (gesalzener hering) etc. etc. - perfect!

just after his restaurant - passing a bridge - TURN RIGHT - this is now a short-cut towards the ferry south of pak lay - it is still about 10 km not so good road - better then the other part - then you reach the road coming from xenamkhan - then towards the ferry - from arrival ferry at the other side to the border it is only 62 kms good road!

in kenthao - no signs at all to the border - just follow your instinct! as the border close at 6 pm we stayed one more night in kenthao - at IVY guesthouse - good - 100'000 kip or 400 baht - clean - new guesthouse - fast wifi!

next morning - bought some lao-beers - and visit the local market - then to the border - very easy - everybody relaxed and very friendly! both sides - laos and thailand.

then following the 2195 towards uttaradit and back home.

here the track from the last 2 days:

Route: 22.07.15 VTE - Kenthao

Explorer Link: http://walkmeter.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Car-20150722-0745

Import Link: http://share.abvio.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Walkmeter-Car-20150722-0745.kml

Fahrtzeit: 4:31:13

Pausenzeit: 7:52:22

Wegstrecke: 271.52 km

Durchschnitt: 60.07 km/h

Schnellste Geschwindigkeit: 143.06 km/h

Aufstieg: 1824

Abstieg: 1757

---

Route: 23.07.15 Kenthao - Pa Sang-City

Explorer Link: http://walkmeter.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Car-20150723-0859

Import Link: http://share.abvio.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Walkmeter-Car-20150723-0859.kml

Fahrtzeit: 7:11:05

Pausenzeit: 6:05:55

Wegstrecke: 610.54 km

Durchschnitt: 84.98 km/h

Schnellste Geschwindigkeit: 150.93 km/h

Aufstieg: 3048

Abstieg: 2888

---

here are some details to find the excellent dutch-restaurant (also lao-food - thai-food - european-food - american food etc. etc.!)

Grenzpunkt südlich Pak Lay - Laos Seite

Kentao

17.694808,101.397266

Restaurant zum gut essen in Kenthao

17.73149,101.390517

Fähre über den Mekhong - bald Brücke (2016?)

südlich Pak Lay

18.17725,101.39514

Guesthouse in Kenthao - neu! Wifi schnell

Ivee - 100'000 Kip (400 baht) mit Kühlschrank 500 Baht

Ivy Guesthouse (Kenthao, Laos)

http://changnoi1.blogspot.com/2015/04/ivy-guesthouse-kenthao-laos.html

Paklay - Guesthouse - links - von Grenze kommend

Sichampa Guesthouse

Wifi sehr gut

100'000 kip (400 baht)

im gleichen Haus junger mann macht gleich die Autoversicherung

anderes Guesthouse in Pak Lay - Ban Na - mit sehr schönem Restaurant

mit gutem essen

wifi nicht besonders schnell - Zimmer nur 80'000

tel. 020 56756724

020 22975595

Grenzübergänge - Namen in Stempel:

Phou Dou

---

Namheuang Friendship Bridge = Laos

Thali Customs House Nakra Seng Boundary Post = Thailand

----

Holländer - Route von Vientiane dem Mekhong entlang

erste 60 km topoftop

dann ca. 20 km geteerte gut

dann ca. 10-15 km von loch zu loch

dann

TAWANXAI RESTAURANT

BAN PAK-SAU

MEUNG MEUN

PROVINCE XANAMKHAM

LAOS

RENE VEERHOEK - MR. SOMSAK

KOORDINATEN: N 18.02792 GRAD

O 101.75266 GRAD

ROUTE VOM HOLLÄNDER RICHTUNG FÄHRE ABKÜRZUNG

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/17.9791472,101.6965696/18.02792,101.75266/@18.0464053,101.7909834,12z/data=!4m2!4m1!5i1

ROUTE VOM HOLLÄNDER BIS ZUR FÄHRE MIT ABKÜRZUNG

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/18.1772995,101.3954746/18.02792,101.75266/@18.1814966,101.4002821,10z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d101.7352359!2d18.0261869!3s0x3126bf0b41a9d619:0xb6fa300d7fa66f6b!1m0!3e0

67,2 KM - ERSTE 10 KM NOCH VON LOCH ZU LOCH dann gut

Route vom Holländer bis an die Grenze via Fähre bei Pak Lay

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/17.6935648,101.39634/18.02792,101.75266/@17.6895113,101.3478804,9.9z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d101.7352359!2d18.0261869!3s0x3126bf0b41a9d619:0xb6fa300d7fa66f6b!1m0!3e0

129 km - ab Ankunft Fähre bis Grenze gute Strasse - in Kentao

entweder rechts über den berg - dann links

oder geradeaus und dann links - NICHT ANGESCHRIEBEN!!!

Fähre Personenauto inkl. Passagiere = 35000 Kip oder 150 Baht

Route Villa Sisavad Vientiane nach Grenze zu Thailand südlich Pak Lay

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Villa+Sisavad,+Vientiane,+Laos/17.6924135,101.3957137/@17.9388782,101.7792934,9z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m10!1m1!1s0x3124687a395cc907:0xbc4f887ef27a99c3!2m2!1d102.614761!2d17.975019!3m4!1m2!1d101.7121768!2d17.9878153!3s0x3126bf59d07f6abb:0xd9a0b38f30e3d075!1m0!3e0

254 km - Fähre

[Tomtomtom69]

Sounds like you are Swiss (without knowing this beforehand) based on you entering via the new Phu Doo crossing, which I've also used before, back in March. The reason I point this out is that Phu Doo does not yet offer a VOA on the Lao side but visa exempt nationalities (such as Thais, other ASEAN nationals and Swiss, Russians, Koreans etc.) can just show up without pre-arranging a visa. Interesting that you chose this border having come from Thung Chang, where there is a border nearby that is quite close to Luang Prabang, but I guess you wanted to drive the Lao part inside Saiyabuli province.

Although it's rare for police to check car temporary import papers and insurance, it can happen. Happened to me in Bangkok driving a Lao car the first time I drove into Bangkok from Laos, but never again since then. Since there is no possibility to purchase insurance at the Phu Doo checkpoint (and it might be a similar story at some other smaller border crossings) it's best not to travel too far outside of the nearest town prior to purchasing an insurance policy, as you don't want to risk problems driving around uninsured, especially if there's an accident or in case of police checks, where you could be fined.

Vang Vieng. Just came back from there, stayed overnight for one night from Sunday to Monday - we also drove back to Vientiane (and then Khon Kaen) on the same day as you (20th July) - I passed a few Thai cars but didn't see yours, LOL (although we arrived in VTE around 3pm whereas it says you arrived around 4.50pm).

YES - i am still SWISS - very proud swiss - original - there are still some left....

and you?

ok - it's hard to follow me on the roads in laos - maybe you saw a blue fast blizzard overtaking you...this was me....MAZDA CX-5 AWD-XDL with 200 horsepower! - thai-plates (1969!!!)

no and we arrived monday in VTE about same time you - but i take all the time the very muddy-dirt road along the mekhong (see track below!) - having some beers and more at the KHONG VIEW restaurant - the best! and then drove to our hotel/guesthouse - out of the center - VILLA SISAVAD - with nice pool for only 15 dollars/night! parking free and fast wifi!

and yes - it was hard to find a bed in vang vieng sunday afternoon - our favorites all full - so we took the big hotel just near the bank coming from north heading left - not in the center - good room - fast internet - clean - cheap! forgot the name sorry!

and due to the rain - only 1 night - no tubing - this is just for tourists hehe....!

staying 2 nights in VTE - then took the road along the mekhong (laos side) - towards XENAMKHAN - the first 60 kms perfect - then about 20 kms not bad - then about 10-15 kms very bad road - from pothole to pothole - was raining too - and all wet - then some kms before xenamkhan - right side - big restaurant - farang (foreigner) in front of this house - a dutch guy - mr. somsak (rené) who opens there a restaurant 6 months ago - good beers - excellent food (him is a cook!) - frikandel special - gesaute haring (gesalzener hering) etc. etc. - perfect!

just after his restaurant - passing a bridge - TURN RIGHT - this is now a short-cut towards the ferry south of pak lay - it is still about 10 km not so good road - better then the other part - then you reach the road coming from xenamkhan - then towards the ferry - from arrival ferry at the other side to the border it is only 62 kms good road!

in kenthao - no signs at all to the border - just follow your instinct! as the border close at 6 pm we stayed one more night in kenthao - at IVY guesthouse - good - 100'000 kip or 400 baht - clean - new guesthouse - fast wifi!

next morning - bought some lao-beers - and visit the local market - then to the border - very easy - everybody relaxed and very friendly! both sides - laos and thailand.

then following the 2195 towards uttaradit and back home.

here the track from the last 2 days:

Route: 22.07.15 VTE - Kenthao

Explorer Link: http://walkmeter.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Car-20150722-0745

Import Link: http://share.abvio.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Walkmeter-Car-20150722-0745.kml

Fahrtzeit: 4:31:13

Pausenzeit: 7:52:22

Wegstrecke: 271.52 km

Durchschnitt: 60.07 km/h

Schnellste Geschwindigkeit: 143.06 km/h

Aufstieg: 1824

Abstieg: 1757

---

Route: 23.07.15 Kenthao - Pa Sang-City

Explorer Link: http://walkmeter.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Car-20150723-0859

Import Link: http://share.abvio.com/2dcc719c4ebb1330/Walkmeter-Car-20150723-0859.kml

Fahrtzeit: 7:11:05

Pausenzeit: 6:05:55

Wegstrecke: 610.54 km

Durchschnitt: 84.98 km/h

Schnellste Geschwindigkeit: 150.93 km/h

Aufstieg: 3048

Abstieg: 2888

---

here are some details to find the excellent dutch-restaurant (also lao-food - thai-food - european-food - american food etc. etc.!)

Grenzpunkt südlich Pak Lay - Laos Seite

Kentao

17.694808,101.397266

Restaurant zum gut essen in Kenthao

17.73149,101.390517

Fähre über den Mekhong - bald Brücke (2016?)

südlich Pak Lay

18.17725,101.39514

Guesthouse in Kenthao - neu! Wifi schnell

Ivee - 100'000 Kip (400 baht) mit Kühlschrank 500 Baht

Ivy Guesthouse (Kenthao, Laos)

http://changnoi1.blogspot.com/2015/04/ivy-guesthouse-kenthao-laos.html

Paklay - Guesthouse - links - von Grenze kommend

Sichampa Guesthouse

Wifi sehr gut

100'000 kip (400 baht)

im gleichen Haus junger mann macht gleich die Autoversicherung

anderes Guesthouse in Pak Lay - Ban Na - mit sehr schönem Restaurant

mit gutem essen

wifi nicht besonders schnell - Zimmer nur 80'000

tel. 020 56756724

020 22975595

Grenzübergänge - Namen in Stempel:

Phou Dou

---

Namheuang Friendship Bridge = Laos

Thali Customs House Nakra Seng Boundary Post = Thailand

----

Holländer - Route von Vientiane dem Mekhong entlang

erste 60 km topoftop

dann ca. 20 km geteerte gut

dann ca. 10-15 km von loch zu loch

dann

TAWANXAI RESTAURANT

BAN PAK-SAU

MEUNG MEUN

PROVINCE XANAMKHAM

LAOS

RENE VEERHOEK - MR. SOMSAK

KOORDINATEN: N 18.02792 GRAD

O 101.75266 GRAD

ROUTE VOM HOLLÄNDER RICHTUNG FÄHRE ABKÜRZUNG

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/17.9791472,101.6965696/18.02792,101.75266/@18.0464053,101.7909834,12z/data=!4m2!4m1!5i1

ROUTE VOM HOLLÄNDER BIS ZUR FÄHRE MIT ABKÜRZUNG

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/18.1772995,101.3954746/18.02792,101.75266/@18.1814966,101.4002821,10z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d101.7352359!2d18.0261869!3s0x3126bf0b41a9d619:0xb6fa300d7fa66f6b!1m0!3e0

67,2 KM - ERSTE 10 KM NOCH VON LOCH ZU LOCH dann gut

Route vom Holländer bis an die Grenze via Fähre bei Pak Lay

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/17.6935648,101.39634/18.02792,101.75266/@17.6895113,101.3478804,9.9z/data=!4m9!4m8!1m5!3m4!1m2!1d101.7352359!2d18.0261869!3s0x3126bf0b41a9d619:0xb6fa300d7fa66f6b!1m0!3e0

129 km - ab Ankunft Fähre bis Grenze gute Strasse - in Kentao

entweder rechts über den berg - dann links

oder geradeaus und dann links - NICHT ANGESCHRIEBEN!!!

Fähre Personenauto inkl. Passagiere = 35000 Kip oder 150 Baht

Route Villa Sisavad Vientiane nach Grenze zu Thailand südlich Pak Lay

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Villa+Sisavad,+Vientiane,+Laos/17.6924135,101.3957137/@17.9388782,101.7792934,9z/data=!4m14!4m13!1m10!1m1!1s0x3124687a395cc907:0xbc4f887ef27a99c3!2m2!1d102.614761!2d17.975019!3m4!1m2!1d101.7121768!2d17.9878153!3s0x3126bf59d07f6abb:0xd9a0b38f30e3d075!1m0!3e0

254 km - Fähre

Yes I am Swiss too. While I was born in Switzerland, I have since acquired two more nationalities and am now a dual citizen, due to having lived in numerous countries. Haven't acquired Thai nationality yet but maybe one day in the future, LOL. However, I remain a proud Swiss, though that doesn't mean I don't also love my other adopted countries.

I too have stayed at the Si Champa guesthouse in Paklay, which was the first decent looking place with wifi I found on my inaugural trip to Laos in my Thai-registered car. Previous driving trips to Laos, combining travel to Thailand and Vietnam in the same car have been in rented Lao registered vehicles.

Thanks also for the tip on the Dutch restaurant near Xanakham, I didn't think there would be any foreigners willing to put down roots in that relatively isolated part of Laos, that isn't part of the tourist trail at all! I'll be sure to check him out next time I head over there.

Most likely any future trips on that road would be due to the occasional journeys I need to make from Mae Sot/Myawady to Vientiane due to some business interests in both places. That's the reason for heading across Phu Doo back in March, shortly after it's February opening in the first place as that is the closest crossing to Mae Sot, at only 400km away. Although it doesn't seem far, around 40% or 150 odd km of this road is winding and relatively isolated driving through Uttaradit province, but the roads are in fairly good condition, with the stretches near the border (as you would have found) brand new due to recent upgrading in preparation for the opening of the Phu Doo crossing and AEC connectivity.

I can see you didn't take the border road from Xanakham via Phalat and then the ferry crossing along the Mekong near the Thai border though. However, on Google maps it's poorly marked, with the first section not even shown at all. In fact, the first stretch between Xanakham and the Mekong river is reasonably good quality though narrow tarmac, afterwards it's sandy or muddy, as mentioned in my earlier post. You can see it as the road that goes along the Lao banks of the Mekong, directly opposite Thailand's 2195 road until it emerges in Kaenthao near route 4.

As you have correctly stated, the road to the border (although it's only 7km from Kaenthao) is poorly signposted but it's not too difficult to eventually find it, even if you get lost, which you didn't seem to.

[user643543]

Yes I am Swiss too.

yes i sent you PM already! maybe we know each other already...!

the dutch guy and other people explained me, that this road from VTE along the mekhong towards kenthao will be a main route - most the land along the mekhong is sold already to rich laotiens from VTE!

also is a project to built a bridge in xenamkhan to chiang khan and open it as an international border as well!

so the restaurant from him will be a good place in the future!

btw - his wife is from there...! ;-)

other question: is it possible for me with my car and thai-plates and internat. number and passport etc. etc. to travel on my own into burma via maesot and coming back in tachileik? - is it possible the same into vietnam? or we must wait for 1st january 2016 - opening ASEAN...?!