Japan's chartered flight ban from Thailand is hurting tourism business

[angiolo]

Takes a lot of training to service an airways craft. Must be done right and quickly. I built a single seat DIY Luton minor aircraft in 1960 Can I help ??????

[bangon04]

Time to actually rectify problems.

"He called for understanding from the Thai public, saying that the problem has been existing for a long time."

Really it is just the pesky foreigners who don't understand our Thainess, and they are such slow learners. Please be patient. If we ignore this problem a bit longer, it is sure to go away.

[trogers]

I can't wait for songkran to finish to see TAT blame lack of Japanese tourists as the cause for lack of expected tourists dollars spent here in their speculations.

Thail based airlines knew in advance this would happen based on reports made previously mentioned by other posters here. They just didn't want to take any planes out of the air to fix for fear of losing profits. As seems to be Thai trend by waiting until the sh--- hits the fan before they do anything.

The charter flights are originating from Thailand. Japan is the one likely to lose dollars from Thai tourists, and not the other way round.

[QEDDEQ]

This on CNBC, http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000366900

The expert says the Thai planes to Japan are likely to fly empty. He says Nok, Scoot and Airasia will be the worst affected. He says it is still OK to fly or ICAO would have implemented a full and immediate ban.Reason for the ICAO action? Not stated by ICAO but the experts think it was because the Thais did not send any personnel to the mandatory ICAO training courses.

[jaywalker]

Hopefully Thailand will start to get its act together now, when the impact is in the only place where you can hurt Thais:

Their wallet!!

Assuming 2,000 Japanese have already paid for these flights, what would you guess their chances of getting a refund are?

My guess is slim to none.

[peergin]

SORRY, THE PROGRAM MADE A FEW CHANGES. HERE IS THE CORRECT VERSION:

I have a few questions:

1) The International Civil Aviation Organization’s (United Nations) investigation refers only to international flights. It does not mention domestic flights. Is ICAO’s authority limited to international flights?

2) Are planes that are used on domestic routes better maintained? I.e. up to the required safety standards?

3) Are “domestic planes” used only within the country or do they also fly international routes?

4) Are “international planes” also used on domestic routes?

5) For now it is “only” Thailand’s charter flights that are affected. However, aren’t the same planes that are being used for charter flights also being used for regular flights?

Thailand’s Transport Minister, Mr. Prajin Juntong, has admitted that “The ICAO has warned us since 2005 about our aviation management and asked us to improve our systems.”

In other words, all Thai airlines listed by ICAO, including the national flag carrier Thai Airways International (!), have – as the government now admits – been playing with our lives for a long time………..

Edited March 30, 2015 by peergin

[daiwill60]

Well, as a media guy I’m not a fan of “Thai journalism” at all. However, the headline:

“Japan's chartered flight ban from Thailand is hurting tourism business”

must be the result of the leftover sense of a brainwashed conformist. Everyone with an IQ higher than room temperature knows what is hurting the tourism business in this case:

It’s the lack of the Thai airline industry and air traffic control to act in accordance with international safety standards!

Actually if less people are leaving Thailand , then surely it cannot be harming Thai tourism , but helping it, as people cannot leave the Hub of SE Asia to spend their money elsewhere.

Obviously Thai airplanes are not banned from leaving Japan, et al, as the statement says, planes leaving Thailand are banned ???

Just an off the wall thought , that's all.

[daiwill60]

Firstly let us let us all just pray that nothing happens to the planes allowed to continue flying, and be thankful that up until now none of the Thai planes have had a Major Disaster , but no one can escape the minor problems they have had recently, like how can we cover the Thai Logo on our plane that went off the runway when the front front wheel collapsed and the plane went off the runway, before pictures are taken, then we can pretend nothing happened to our national flag carrying planes.

[Orac]

Well, as a media guy I’m not a fan of “Thai journalism” at all. However, the headline:

“Japan's chartered flight ban from Thailand is hurting tourism business”

must be the result of the leftover sense of a brainwashed conformist. Everyone with an IQ higher than room temperature knows what is hurting the tourism business in this case:

It’s the lack of the Thai airline industry and air traffic control to act in accordance with international safety standards!

Actually if less people are leaving Thailand , then surely it cannot be harming Thai tourism , but helping it, as people cannot leave the Hub of SE Asia to spend their money elsewhere.

Obviously Thai airplanes are not banned from leaving Japan, et al, as the statement says, planes leaving Thailand are banned ???

Just an off the wall thought , that's all.

If they can't fly to Japan then there will be no planes there to bring tourists to Thailand.

I see the BP is now reporting that China and Singapore are now putting restrictions in place.

[maimeephom]

In 2005 Phuket Air was banned from Europe, after a few close calls....

An in-flight fuel leak on a london bound flight, made press headlines in the UK.

[kartman]

In 2005 Phuket Air was banned from Europe, after a few close calls....

An in-flight fuel leak on a london bound flight, made press headlines in the UK.

Flew with them in 2005 made it to the Middle East no further plane broken , remainder of trip by Eithad.

[smedly]

Concerns should be expressed about Transport Minister Prajin Juntong's management, and nice of him to change his mind and join the meeting at the ministry to discuss the problem.

.

There will be a domino- effect.

Yet another long existing problem to be resolved as a matter of urgency.

so you think this problem has existed for only 8 months or so

If there is anyone that is willing or able to do something to correct this it will be the current administration, previous governments had only interest in feeding money to themselves and the same goes for the boards and directors they appointed to state agencies and organisations who enjoyed huge salaries and little or no interest or expertise in the posts they held again only there filling their pockets, airline safety in Thailand is all about the budget and how much of it is allocated to what area of the business - top management being the highest of priorities - forget about compliance with safety standards which are well down the priority list but are probably the most important, compliance coming from a series of coverups and lies

Another fine example of everything that is wrong in this country - the greed knows no boundaries and the lies are easy told

I believe PM Prayuth Chan (O) Cha is being very restrained and conservative in his approach to the very obvious problems here, I honestly wish he'd take the gloves off and give this country a good routing and cleansing - it has been needed for years

and yet we have still got discussion about amnesty - what is that all about

[cookee68]

Oh well not that big a news

[uel1968]

Its all blowing up in their face's,they are shooting themselves in the foot,TOUGH!!!

[Tokay]

So.... only airplanes are not meeting safety standards in Thailand? I think not. Try everything that moves.

[JoeLing]

"the first thing to do is to arrest the domino effect."
I'm pretty sure, a bit of attitude adjustment for the press, then someone will pay
bail and domino effect is back on the streets in no time

It always amazes me how often Thai's can shoot their own feet without limping

[BusyB]

What about Thai (the airline) are they safe? Or is it just the smaller airlines?

It's not about individual airlines or even airplanes/flights. It's about the environment in which they operate, and how they are administered and supervised. It’s about any outfit governed by and operating in the Thai airline industry, including airport and navigational facilities.

To quote Geriatrickid:

“It isn't just oversight. The issue relates to airports, ATC, training, verification of qualifications, standards and surveillance.”

What has happened is that through negligence, corruption and incompetence, everyone involved, including the airlines who’ve gone along with it, have stacked the cards towards a serious incident. The aviation administration and operational environment is/is becoming crazily tilted towards a nasty accident. Hence the ICAO stance.

I’m ex airline staff, had a private license, aviation was my life for many years. It is still my big love. I have no fears of flying, and feel more comfortable in a microlite at 5 thousand feet than I do on the ground. I feel really at home up there. But only when everything’s adequately regulated and overseen. You see no matter how safe it's become, flying will always remain a calculated risk. I’m sure you can understand why. And the Thai aviation environment now is/is rapidly becoming extremely high risk. Just as frightening is how they are (totally inadequately) addressing the issue.

So while I’m still prepared to risk a Lufthansa Group plane into BKK for the last 45 minutes of the flight and back out again, I’m no longer prepared to assume the level of risk involved in placing myself onto any Thai airliner for any length of time. I now no longer know if the pilots are even adequately qualified! If maintenance has been adequately administered. Or how much tea money was paid to see some hiso scion given the green light after failing his sim. ICAO has warned me.

Think for a moment: if someone like the Germanwings co can slip through LH’s formidable administrative, training and operational machinery, in such a tightly regulated environment as the EU, just imagine what creepy crawlies might lurk in the crannies and bowels of the Thai environment and organizations. ICAO isn’t a nationally biased organization. It’s an intergovernmental UN organization whose sole bias is safety and communication.

I shan’t be flying any Thai airlines until their open invitation to an accident is completely withdrawn – and I used to frequently fly THAI, both domestically and to Europe. I was looking forward to flying Bangkok Airways to Vientiane on my next visit. I’ll take the train instead.

[chooka]

This is serious & will have to resolved at government levels.

They are busy with mini skirts at the moment.

[smedly]

What about Thai (the airline) are they safe? Or is it just the smaller airlines?

It's not about individual airlines or even airplanes/flights. It's about the environment in which they operate, and how they are administered and supervised. It’s about any outfit governed by and operating in the Thai airline industry, including airport and navigational facilities.

To quote Geriatrickid:

“It isn't just oversight. The issue relates to airports, ATC, training, verification of qualifications, standards and surveillance.”

What has happened is that through negligence, corruption and incompetence, everyone involved, including the airlines who’ve gone along with it, have stacked the cards towards a serious incident. The aviation administration and operational environment is/is becoming crazily tilted towards a nasty accident. Hence the ICAO stance.

I’m ex airline staff, had a private license, aviation was my life for many years. It is still my big love. I have no fears of flying, and feel more comfortable in a microlite at 5 thousand feet than I do on the ground. I feel really at home up there. But only when everything’s adequately regulated and overseen. You see no matter how safe it's become, flying will always remain a calculated risk. I’m sure you can understand why. And the Thai aviation environment now is/is rapidly becoming extremely high risk. Just as frightening is how they are (totally inadequately) addressing the issue.

So while I’m still prepared to risk a Lufthansa Group plane into BKK for the last 45 minutes of the flight and back out again, I’m no longer prepared to assume the level of risk involved in placing myself onto any Thai airliner for any length of time. I now no longer know if the pilots are even adequately qualified! If maintenance has been adequately administered. Or how much tea money was paid to see some hiso scion given the green light after failing his sim. ICAO has warned me.

Think for a moment: if someone like the Germanwings co can slip through LH’s formidable administrative, training and operational machinery, in such a tightly regulated environment as the EU, just imagine what creepy crawlies might lurk in the crannies and bowels of the Thai environment and organizations. ICAO isn’t a nationally biased organization. It’s an intergovernmental UN organization whose sole bias is safety and communication.

I shan’t be flying any Thai airlines until their open invitation to an accident is completely withdrawn – and I used to frequently fly THAI, both domestically and to Europe. I was looking forward to flying Bangkok Airways to Vientiane on my next visit. I’ll take the train instead.

Great post and very informative and agree entirely although it has to be said that Thailand is not alone when it comes to standards or lack of them, anyway the only folly I see in your post are the last 5 words, there is no method of transport that is safe in Thailand train plane bus minivan take your pick, you can lessen the danger by driving yourself but not everyone can do that, when it comes down to it - it is all about the money and how that allocated budget finds its way to all the wrong places

[Muhendis]

I smell a political rat here. There is more to this than meets the eye.

I agree. If the standard of safety was sufficient to avoid being banned for ten years, the question is "what has suddenly changed"?

I suspect there is a heightened awareness due to 'planes disappearing, crashing into mountains, dropping into the sea and skidding off runways but these are all piloting issues rather than operational and maintenance issues.

[Si Thea01]

Dear General/PM, I have 42 years Airline/Aircraft Maintenance Experience and have associates with Flight Operation and Regulatory Compliance and are able to help with this crisis.

Let me know !!

Dear sir.

Thank you for your interest but unfortunately your age is a barrier, therefore you have been unsuccessful with your application We are looking for people in their late 20's, who have the same experience as yourself thus enabling us to milk them for an extra 42 years. at the 300 baht a day rate. You know you farangs charge too much. You just want to impress our women with your wealth and handsomeness. We know how you work.

Now, as you would appreciate, all this will benefit our bottom line because we won't have to worry about you older farangs chasing our young women or taking sickies after a few days on the turps. And yes we are being discriminatory but I know you'll understand because this is Thainess courtesy of Amazing Thailand. Besides, you know the rules, no work permits to retirees and we're really fed up with border runs. Thank you for being so understanding but if you're not, then you know the options. เข้าใจ ( kea ci ) And please have a good day.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Si Thea01

[bruceybonus]

I smell a political rat here. There is more to this than meets the eye.

I agree. If the standard of safety was sufficient to avoid being banned for ten years, the question is "what has suddenly changed"?

I suspect there is a heightened awareness due to 'planes disappearing, crashing into mountains, dropping into the sea and skidding off runways but these are all piloting issues rather than operational and maintenance issues.

No, this has been building for a while and they have been given time to improve, which they haven't.

You have to realise that the people in charge of buses, trains & planes don't give two sh1ts about safety. Money, money & more money is the only drive. 30 die in bus accident, nothing changes, trains derail nothing changes. Next thing would of been 150 dead in a plane. The people in charge don't care because it's not them or their ilk dying!! None of the upper echelon go anywhere by bus or by budget airways so why should they care. Only stupid buffalo people die

[soalbundy]

Dear General/PM, I have 42 years Airline/Aircraft Maintenance Experience and have associates with Flight Operation and Regulatory Compliance and are able to help with this crisis.

Let me know !!

which airlanes did you service before 42 years ?

germanwings were not introduced at this time !!

sick

[EyesWideOpen]

I smell a political rat here. There is more to this than meets the eye.

I agree. If the standard of safety was sufficient to avoid being banned for ten years, the question is "what has suddenly changed"?

I suspect there is a heightened awareness due to 'planes disappearing, crashing into mountains, dropping into the sea and skidding off runways but these are all piloting issues rather than operational and maintenance issues.

No, this has been building for a while and they have been given time to improve, which they haven't.

You have to realise that the people in charge of buses, trains & planes don't give two sh1ts about safety. Money, money & more money is the only drive. 30 die in bus accident, nothing changes, trains derail nothing changes. Next thing would of been 150 dead in a plane. The people in charge don't care because it's not them or their ilk dying!! None of the upper echelon go anywhere by bus or by budget airways so why should they care. Only stupid buffalo people die

The elites have been flying for free on Thai airways for years. Guess they will have a

real dilemma now, fly free with a bit of risk or reach into their own pockets to pay for

airfare on a real airline.....

[Bluespunk]

"But for Japan, he said the team from the Civil Aviation Department is negotiating with Japan to solve the problem."

Fix the planes and you solve the problem.

[bruceybonus]

I smell a political rat here. There is more to this than meets the eye.

I agree. If the standard of safety was sufficient to avoid being banned for ten years, the question is "what has suddenly changed"?

I suspect there is a heightened awareness due to 'planes disappearing, crashing into mountains, dropping into the sea and skidding off runways but these are all piloting issues rather than operational and maintenance issues.

No, this has been building for a while and they have been given time to improve, which they haven't.

You have to realise that the people in charge of buses, trains & planes don't give two sh1ts about safety. Money, money & more money is the only drive. 30 die in bus accident, nothing changes, trains derail nothing changes. Next thing would of been 150 dead in a plane. The people in charge don't care because it's not them or their ilk dying!! None of the upper echelon go anywhere by bus or by budget airways so why should they care. Only stupid buffalo people die

The elites have been flying for free on Thai airways for years. Guess they will have a

real dilemma now, fly free with a bit of risk or reach into their own pockets to pay for

airfare on a real airline.....

Do you think more attention is paid to Thai's fleet than the other operators?

[NeilSA1]

Concerns should be expressed about Transport Minister Prajin Juntong's management, and nice of him to change his mind and join the meeting at the ministry to discuss the problem.

.

There will be a domino- effect.

Yet another long existing problem to be resolved as a matter of urgency.

so you think this problem has existed for only 8 months or so

If there is anyone that is willing or able to do something to correct this it will be the current administration, previous governments had only interest in feeding money to themselves and the same goes for the boards and directors they appointed to state agencies and organisations who enjoyed huge salaries and little or no interest or expertise in the posts they held again only there filling their pockets, airline safety in Thailand is all about the budget and how much of it is allocated to what area of the business - top management being the highest of priorities - forget about compliance with safety standards which are well down the priority list but are probably the most important, compliance coming from a series of coverups and lies

Another fine example of everything that is wrong in this country - the greed knows no boundaries and the lies are easy told

I believe PM Prayuth Chan (O) Cha is being very restrained and conservative in his approach to the very obvious problems here, I honestly wish he'd take the gloves off and give this country a good routing and cleansing - it has been needed for years

and yet we have still got discussion about amnesty - what is that all about

You - "so you think this problem has existed for only 8 months or so" No. Me - "Yet another long existing problem to be resolved as a matter of urgency." (see above)

I believe PM Prayuth Chan (O) Cha is being very restrained and conservative in his approach to the very obvious problems here, I honestly wish he'd take the gloves off and give this country a good routing and cleansing - it has been needed for years ----------- I agree

[Thian]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I smell a political rat here. There is more to this than meets the eye.

I agree. If the standard of safety was sufficient to avoid being banned for ten years, the question is "what has suddenly changed"?

I suspect there is a heightened awareness due to 'planes disappearing, crashing into mountains, dropping into the sea and skidding off runways but these are all piloting issues rather than operational and maintenance issues.

No, this has been building for a while and they have been given time to improve, which they haven't.

You have to realise that the people in charge of buses, trains & planes don't give two sh1ts about safety. Money, money & more money is the only drive. 30 die in bus accident, nothing changes, trains derail nothing changes. Next thing would of been 150 dead in a plane. The people in charge don't care because it's not them or their ilk dying!! None of the upper echelon go anywhere by bus or by budget airways so why should they care. Only stupid buffalo people die alt=bah.gif>

The elites have been flying for free on Thai airways for years. Guess they will have a

real dilemma now, fly free with a bit of risk or reach into their own pockets to pay for

airfare on a real airline.....

Well even for free i wouldn't fly with a Thai company anymore. I even feel bad that i see those planes above me in the sky all day here in Bangkok.

And with my all my collegues think the same, we don't feel safe here anymore.

[jerojero]

Warned in 2005, and only now they must improve safety and urgently! Unbelievable.

[angiolo]

How long does it take to train a service engineer ?? Does it take more than 8 MONTHS >