helmet advice needed

[Familyonthemove]

I'm not sure the commonly held beliefs about mid-range and expensive helments are totally correct. As said by Mr Yang the human skull is quite tough and I've seen medical stats that show under 40% of fatal bike accidents involving head injury are caused by fractured skulls and direct impact. But ..... 60% are caused by brain spin when the head has a glancing blow with the road causing the brain to rotate in the skull. Helmets only help with the 40% - and although the higher quality helmets may be better than the mid-range for these 40% of cases they may actually make the 60% of cases worse.

Why? Firstly the expensive helments tend to have a good fit - so the tangential blow to the helmet will be transmitted directly to the head and the brain. And secondly if the helmet has thicker padding it will have a greater diameter and so exert more leverage on the head increasing the force of the spin.

So a smaller diameter and loose fitting helmet may actually help prevent brain spin injury which account for 60% of fatalities from head injury.

Shoei and Arai may be a bit like Rolex and Omega. Are their watches really better at telling the time than a Casio or is it just good marketing?

No doubt they'll be some energetic replies - as head protection is a complex and emotive subject - and I never ride without a helmet. But personally I'm not convinced that a top end lid offers any better protection in the real world than a mid range one. But I agree that a supermarket 190 THB plastic helmet will be little use when it falls off at the first hint of trouble.

[ttakata]

I don't think the price matters, only the safety rating.

Read up on DOT, Snell, and ECE safety test procedures and decide which makes sense to you and then buy a helmet with that safety sticker.

I prefer DOT but wear any of the 3 standards.

I've had Shoei, HJC, Bell, and many cheaper brands.

Now I have a 2200b Bilmola Defender and am happy knowing I can lose it, drop it, or replace it when the strap and liner falls apart which happens in a few years.

[seedy]

Always had good use from HJC.

Got a Schuberth modular waiting tho'

[Familyonthemove]

Always had good use from HJC.

Got a Schuberth modular waiting tho'

I had a nice Schuberth in the UK .... but after reading the article from a trauma doctor about brain spin - I wonder about the weight and sheer size of Schuberth helmets?

The conclusion of the report was that a new generation of helmet is needed - one that has a flexible skin on the outside (like our heads) designed to slide over the helmet to reduce the torsional forces.

The marketing people could have fun selling a helmet with a smooth skin covering.

[seedy]

I wonder about the weight and sheer size of Schuberth helmets?

Will let you know once I have rode with it for a while.

Been wanting a Mod helmet for a while.

[Dellboy218]

Always had good use from HJC.

Got a Schuberth modular waiting tho'

I had a nice Schuberth in the UK .... but after reading the article from a trauma doctor about brain spin - I wonder about the weight and sheer size of Schuberth helmets?

The conclusion of the report was that a new generation of helmet is needed - one that has a flexible skin on the outside (like our heads) designed to slide over the helmet to reduce the torsional forces.

The marketing people could have fun selling a helmet with a smooth skin covering.

Have a look at www.sharp.direct.gov.uk you are right in that paying big money does not mean the safest helmet. You can have the fanciest most beautifully made helmet you like but it does not mean it is safe or safer than a cheaper one. You cannot put a price on a helmet and say it is safe simply because of price variations around the world. I buy mine from Europe which is a lot cheaper than buying here. There is one thing those that advocate full face only helmets forget and that is individual comfort. If you are not comfortable wearing your helmet in the heat of the day then that type of helmet may not be for you. If you are not comfortable then you are not giving your undivided attention to your riding. What is good for one may not be good for another. Edited April 16, 2015 by Dellboy218

[nikster]

After spending a fortune on various Helmets of various makes and brands, I have to say this:

- A good fitting helmet is better than an otherwise good but ill-fitting one. I tried an Arai in the shop, was OK, rode with it for a full day and could not continue the next day because I had the worst headache of my life. Turns out Thai made Arais are round, and I have an oval shaped head. That's 18k Baht out the window (no returns - this is Thailand!).

Always try the helmet for a while in the shop - wear it for 5 minutes, then take it off and look for red spots on your forehead or other discomfort.

- If the helmet is decent to begin with, it's probably safe. You pay more for a better fit and more riding comfort. Which IMO is well worth it. There are big differences in comfort with helmets.

- Racing helmets are not that great for everything else - they're not made for riding upright, or for noise reduction, or for great peripheral vision. I finally found a Helmet that fits my oval head shape perfectly, the Arai Signet-Q. It's only available in the west so I had to import it. It's very comfortable but it's also really loud.

- My favorite is the Schuberth C3 Pro. It's quiet, it's super comfortable, and it feels light and small even though on paper it isn't all that light. Its headshape is too round, however. I widened it with a system a friend came up with: I put a volleyball in the helmet and pumped it up to 80 PSI. Then left it for 2 days. Not perfect as it made the helmet wider too, but better than getting a pressure point/headache. If you happen to have a round or round-ish head, I'd recommend it.

Cheap helmets are possible but they are loud, they might not protect you in certain cases, they might shake or deteriorate quickly, they might have bad visibility in rain or at night. But - there are exceptions... I had a super comfortable SparX Helmet for 4,000 Baht for the longest time - it worked reasonably well in most conditions, and protected me in 2 crashes. Not as comfortable or quiet or good as the Schuberth but for the price it was good. 2 expensive but ill-fitting Arais were gathering dust while I used this cheap lid.

Edited April 16, 2015 by nikster

[Gweiloman]

A more expensive helmet is not necessarily safer than a cheaper one. But chances are that it's better made, more comfortable (assuming you get the right shape for your head) and stuff like hinges (for mods, visors etc) lasts longer. The mechanism for my inside visor on my HJC broke after only a few uses. Turns out that this is not an uncommon problem as a few friends had the same issue. On the other hand, on my Shoei, it works as well today as it did when I bought it a couple of years ago.

[seedy]

- My favorite is the Schuberth C3 Pro.

Thanks Nik - good to know.

I brought up this very point, and the staff at the shop where I am buying tells me they have a variety of liners, cheek pads, etc to custom fit.

My head is HUGE - in a HJC I need an XXL. They said no sweat, we can make it fit.

They ain't cheap tho' !

[Poppy Dave]

I'm on my second Shark Evoline helmet. I've been riding motorcycles for the past 50 years and the Shark's are without doubt the best I've ever had. The beauty of the Evoline is that they have are 'flip front' and the 'chin bar' can be raised if/when you want it be open faced. They are safety approved for both open and closed. They are not a cheap helmet, not very expensive either (not here in Australia anyway, I don't know about Thailand though) but what price do you place on a potential brain injury? I highly recommend Shark helmets and will be taking mine to Thailand when I move there later this year. Good luck with your choice.

[seedy]

http://www.shark.in.th/

Looks like it ships from Singapore. Do not know if sold in LOS

But I bring my new ones in my suitcase.

[wantan]

I dont know these Shark Evoline but maybe this is what you are looking for:

http://www.premiermotoparts.com/product-th-1084281-5729408-%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%87%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%84+%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%87%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%94%E0%B9%89+SHARK+EvoLine+series3+%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B3%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%B2.html#

http://www.premiermotoparts.com/product-th-1084281-5729412-%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%A7%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%B1%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%87%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%84+%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%87%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%94%E0%B9%89+SHARK+EvoLine+series3+%E0%B8%94%E0%B8%B3%E0%B8%94%E0%B9%89%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99.html

I once visited this store and it looked clean and OK. Its in the new HaHa mall next to Paradise.

[Poppy Dave]

Looks like you can get an Evoline 3, which is the one, make that two, my wife has one too, for just under 11,000Bht. Money well spent.

[wantan]

Looks like you can get an Evoline 3, which is the one, make that two, my wife has one too, for just under 11,000Bht. Money well spent.

Seems its made in Thailand. Nice helmet. I just bought a Caberg Duke which is also P/J dual-homologated, but the Evoline 3 looks much safer with the chin part flipped to be back. I would never ride the Caberg in open position. Its also not comfortable having so much weight over the head. I guess the Shark is more comfortable in open position either.

Shark Evoline 3:

Caberg Duke:

Schuberth C3 Pro:

[blueyeshk]

Aliexpress.com

[macknife]

I'm not sure the commonly held beliefs about mid-range and expensive helments are totally correct. As said by Mr Yang the human skull is quite tough and I've seen medical stats that show under 40% of fatal bike accidents involving head injury are caused by fractured skulls and direct impact. But ..... 60% are caused by brain spin when the head has a glancing blow with the road causing the brain to rotate in the skull. Helmets only help with the 40% - and although the higher quality helmets may be better than the mid-range for these 40% of cases they may actually make the 60% of cases worse.

Why? Firstly the expensive helments tend to have a good fit - so the tangential blow to the helmet will be transmitted directly to the head and the brain. And secondly if the helmet has thicker padding it will have a greater diameter and so exert more leverage on the head increasing the force of the spin.

So a smaller diameter and loose fitting helmet may actually help prevent brain spin injury which account for 60% of fatalities from head injury.

[ . . . ]

The conclusion of the report was that a new generation of helmet is needed - one that has a flexible skin on the outside (like our heads) designed to slide over the helmet to reduce the torsional forces.

The marketing people could have fun selling a helmet with a smooth skin covering.

This argument seems flawed to me. If less than 40% of fatal head injuries are caused by fractured skulls then doesn't this suggest that the helmets are working? If the helmets were not worn or of bad quality then perhaps then I'm sure the percentage would rise to over 80%

So if the conclusion were to be adopted and new generation helmets had flexible skin, yes brain spin death percentages would come down but then wouldn't fractured skull death percentages go up?

Or are you suggesting current helmets should have an additional flexible skin around them? If so, sounds very heavy to me.

@Seedy: Shark helmets are available in Thailand. I have one and is the best helmet I've ever had. All Shark helmets have at least 4-5 star ratings on the sharp safety index mentioned above, which is better than any other brand of helmet including Arai or Shoei. Most Kawasaki branches have them for sale or to try for size and all can easily be ordered online. In Bangkok 320sp has a large range.

[ttakata]

Don't worry the rotating/slippery helmet is coming.

I like the concept behind it and will get one when a proper road helmet comes out.

http://www.mipshelmet.com/

[RubberSideDown]

It's true that helmets that meet a safety standard (DOT, Snell, ECE) are similarly protective even if there's a price disparity- imho, in years of wearing higher-end helmets after a shorter time of wearing cheaper ones, it's well worth the extra money for the comfort and extra features.

More expensive helmets tend to be lighter (especially if they're track-based, like the Shoei X-12- like most 'minimal' helmets of this standard, it's noisy, though), they usually have a better venting system (like my Shoei GT-Air), they often have larger visor areas while still maintaining their safety rating (and the OEM visors themselves are often have better optics), they offer options like drop-down visors (with a quality mechanism that will be trouble-free for years), the interior is usually replaceable, they're built specifically to accommodate a Bluetooth headset, etc. They also tend to last longer (especially the interior) before replacement is necessary- cheaper helmets use cheaper components, and tend to degrade more quickly.

If you keep a helmet for a few years, the extra ~10K you might spend over a less-expensive helmet pays for itself in terms of comfort and convenience- your helmet houses your consciousness when you ride, it it should not only be protective, but it should offer as welcoming an environment as possible. Many mid-level Japanese sedans have the same 5-star safety rating as a high-end Mercedes- sitting in one and then the other is often a world of difference, though.

[seedy]

@Seedy: Shark helmets are available in Thailand.

Thanks

[Familyonthemove]

I'm not sure the commonly held beliefs about mid-range and expensive helments are totally correct. As said by Mr Yang the human skull is quite tough and I've seen medical stats that show under 40% of fatal bike accidents involving head injury are caused by fractured skulls and direct impact. But ..... 60% are caused by brain spin when the head has a glancing blow with the road causing the brain to rotate in the skull. Helmets only help with the 40% - and although the higher quality helmets may be better than the mid-range for these 40% of cases they may actually make the 60% of cases worse.

Why? Firstly the expensive helments tend to have a good fit - so the tangential blow to the helmet will be transmitted directly to the head and the brain. And secondly if the helmet has thicker padding it will have a greater diameter and so exert more leverage on the head increasing the force of the spin.

So a smaller diameter and loose fitting helmet may actually help prevent brain spin injury which account for 60% of fatalities from head injury.

[ . . . ]

The conclusion of the report was that a new generation of helmet is needed - one that has a flexible skin on the outside (like our heads) designed to slide over the helmet to reduce the torsional forces.

The marketing people could have fun selling a helmet with a smooth skin covering.

This argument seems flawed to me. If less than 40% of fatal head injuries are caused by fractured skulls then doesn't this suggest that the helmets are working? If the helmets were not worn or of bad quality then perhaps then I'm sure the percentage would rise to over 80%

So if the conclusion were to be adopted and new generation helmets had flexible skin, yes brain spin death percentages would come down but then wouldn't fractured skull death percentages go up?

Or are you suggesting current helmets should have an additional flexible skin around them? If so, sounds very heavy to me.

@Seedy: Shark helmets are available in Thailand. I have one and is the best helmet I've ever had. All Shark helmets have at least 4-5 star ratings on the sharp safety index mentioned above, which is better than any other brand of helmet including Arai or Shoei. Most Kawasaki branches have them for sale or to try for size and all can easily be ordered online. In Bangkok 320sp has a large range.

"So if the conclusion were to be adopted and new generation helmets had flexible skin, yes brain spin death percentages would come down but then wouldn't fractured skull death percentages go up?" Yes - the % split would change - but the total number would fall. But my point is that large diameter, heavy helmets without the new rotating skin innovation may increase the chance of brain spin accidents. In the future the best option would be a good quality helmet with the rotating outer skin - but for now perhaps a smaller, lighter helmet is the balance of safety features?

[macknife]

I'm not sure the commonly held beliefs about mid-range and expensive helments are totally correct. As said by Mr Yang the human skull is quite tough and I've seen medical stats that show under 40% of fatal bike accidents involving head injury are caused by fractured skulls and direct impact. But ..... 60% are caused by brain spin when the head has a glancing blow with the road causing the brain to rotate in the skull. Helmets only help with the 40% - and although the higher quality helmets may be better than the mid-range for these 40% of cases they may actually make the 60% of cases worse.

Why? Firstly the expensive helments tend to have a good fit - so the tangential blow to the helmet will be transmitted directly to the head and the brain. And secondly if the helmet has thicker padding it will have a greater diameter and so exert more leverage on the head increasing the force of the spin.

So a smaller diameter and loose fitting helmet may actually help prevent brain spin injury which account for 60% of fatalities from head injury.

[ . . . ]

The conclusion of the report was that a new generation of helmet is needed - one that has a flexible skin on the outside (like our heads) designed to slide over the helmet to reduce the torsional forces.

The marketing people could have fun selling a helmet with a smooth skin covering.

This argument seems flawed to me. If less than 40% of fatal head injuries are caused by fractured skulls then doesn't this suggest that the helmets are working? If the helmets were not worn or of bad quality then perhaps then I'm sure the percentage would rise to over 80%

So if the conclusion were to be adopted and new generation helmets had flexible skin, yes brain spin death percentages would come down but then wouldn't fractured skull death percentages go up?

Or are you suggesting current helmets should have an additional flexible skin around them? If so, sounds very heavy to me.

@Seedy: Shark helmets are available in Thailand. I have one and is the best helmet I've ever had. All Shark helmets have at least 4-5 star ratings on the sharp safety index mentioned above, which is better than any other brand of helmet including Arai or Shoei. Most Kawasaki branches have them for sale or to try for size and all can easily be ordered online. In Bangkok 320sp has a large range.

"So if the conclusion were to be adopted and new generation helmets had flexible skin, yes brain spin death percentages would come down but then wouldn't fractured skull death percentages go up?" Yes - the % split would change - but the total number would fall. But my point is that large diameter, heavy helmets without the new rotating skin innovation may increase the chance of brain spin accidents. In the future the best option would be a good quality helmet with the rotating outer skin - but for now perhaps a smaller, lighter helmet is the balance of safety features?

i would think it more likely that the rotating skin would be on the inside.

[Familyonthemove]

I'm not sure the commonly held beliefs about mid-range and expensive helments are totally correct. As said by Mr Yang the human skull is quite tough and I've seen medical stats that show under 40% of fatal bike accidents involving head injury are caused by fractured skulls and direct impact. But ..... 60% are caused by brain spin when the head has a glancing blow with the road causing the brain to rotate in the skull. Helmets only help with the 40% - and although the higher quality helmets may be better than the mid-range for these 40% of cases they may actually make the 60% of cases worse.

Why? Firstly the expensive helments tend to have a good fit - so the tangential blow to the helmet will be transmitted directly to the head and the brain. And secondly if the helmet has thicker padding it will have a greater diameter and so exert more leverage on the head increasing the force of the spin.

So a smaller diameter and loose fitting helmet may actually help prevent brain spin injury which account for 60% of fatalities from head injury.

[ . . . ]

The conclusion of the report was that a new generation of helmet is needed - one that has a flexible skin on the outside (like our heads) designed to slide over the helmet to reduce the torsional forces.

The marketing people could have fun selling a helmet with a smooth skin covering.

This argument seems flawed to me. If less than 40% of fatal head injuries are caused by fractured skulls then doesn't this suggest that the helmets are working? If the helmets were not worn or of bad quality then perhaps then I'm sure the percentage would rise to over 80%

So if the conclusion were to be adopted and new generation helmets had flexible skin, yes brain spin death percentages would come down but then wouldn't fractured skull death percentages go up?

Or are you suggesting current helmets should have an additional flexible skin around them? If so, sounds very heavy to me.

@Seedy: Shark helmets are available in Thailand. I have one and is the best helmet I've ever had. All Shark helmets have at least 4-5 star ratings on the sharp safety index mentioned above, which is better than any other brand of helmet including Arai or Shoei. Most Kawasaki branches have them for sale or to try for size and all can easily be ordered online. In Bangkok 320sp has a large range.

"So if the conclusion were to be adopted and new generation helmets had flexible skin, yes brain spin death percentages would come down but then wouldn't fractured skull death percentages go up?" Yes - the % split would change - but the total number would fall. But my point is that large diameter, heavy helmets without the new rotating skin innovation may increase the chance of brain spin accidents. In the future the best option would be a good quality helmet with the rotating outer skin - but for now perhaps a smaller, lighter helmet is the balance of safety features?

i would think it more likely that the rotating skin would be on the inside.

Good point. Makes sense to add it as part of the lining. The original suggestion was from a doctor comparing the concept to skin over our skulls - but helmet designers could implement it differently.

I do think the polystyrene used in most helmet inners is too stiff and too hot!

[kekalot]

I tend to prefer Motorcross style helmets in Thailand. I usually rode with a white motocross one I had bought in Thailand (something like 1300 baht) with some safety glasses but recently came back to Canada and bought myself a semi nice Bell MX-2 Quantum on sale at 89.99$ from 229.99$ (prob worth more like 179 or so)

wasn't impressed with the helmets I had seen locally and I don't do well with tinted lenses in the dark.. so I got myself some Thor goggles with clear, yellow and tinted changeable lenses.

all in about 130$ I guess. but MUCH better than the weird and cheap helmets I am used to having in Thailand.. I'm happy with it. rain be damned! I usually stop when it rains too much anyways

[smedly]

"Real" Helmets are just as good as any expensive overpriced stuff from the west

There was another thread here about this very subject I suggest you find it and read it

[smedly]

Remember that helmets are only good for protection up to an impact speed of about 30kmph (helmet speed not bike speed)and are tested as such, when you come off a bike your are falling to the ground from a certain height usually anything from 1m to 3m, a high side is the worst as it can eject you into the air increasing the distance to the ground, forward horizontal speed has little to do with it, if you hit something solid while sliding/moving forward at anything above 30kmph with a helmeted head you are in trouble no matter what you are wearing

[English_M_in_Bkk]

A Real helmet isn't automatically as safe as a more expensive Western helmet.

Helmets today are mostly built to very high standards, so yes a Real helmet will not be a piece of shit and will offer protection. But buying a helmet is more than just protection, it is about fit, comfort, visor view, fogging etc. etc.

Buy a helmet with 4 to 5 SHARP rating and buy the one that fits your head, has good padding that isn't going to loosen up after a year, D-lock, quality visor etc.

[ttakata]

Stupid Adobe Flash should be banned since I can't see the testing videos on the Sharp website.

Still it's nice to see each helmets' area of impact effectiveness on the website.

I was not even aware of this website, is it a fairly new organization?

I shall have to check all future helmet purchases with this site.

[papa al]

If you have a good helmet then maybe you will avoid brain trauma and only break your neck and be totally paralyze quadriplegic, great.

Edited April 25, 2015 by seedy

[Rhys]

Any comments on the Thai brand... Bimola (?) .. The seem priced in the 2500-3500 range.. Quality appears good. the appropriate ratings are there.... The shop is in BKK.. but actually saw a few in a shop in the south..

Cheers Mates

Edited May 4, 2015 by Rhys

[ttakata]

I have the Bimola Defender and put 3000km on it for almost a year now.

The steel strap lock part is rusty from my sweat but I think it is just a cosmetic issue and this would likely happen to any helmet with a carbon steel lock.

The internal sun visor is great.

I think for the money its a great helmet.

The liner parts are still in acceptable shape after several washings.

I will probably replace it after another year of sweating in it.