Historic Iran nuclear deal reached

[samran]

No guesses needed as to how Iran would spend any money forthcoming from the easing of sanctions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11515603/Iran-is-intensifying-efforts-to-support-Hamas-in-Gaza.html

Of course this was yet another item completely omitted from the so called agreement.

They are also helping fight ISIS.

Solving issues in Israel, while not easy, can more easily be done via negotiation. We've gotten close before. We can again.

Stoping ISIS, that requires all hands. The US needs to get over 1979. The hostages were released, and though not perfect, the country is more democratic and meritocratic today that ever was under the Shah, or as our allies in the whabist nutbag kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It isn't a strech to say that Iran might even be a more natural friend to Israel than we might think. They still even reserve a seat in parliament for Jews.

[Ulysses G.]

17 nations have peaceful nuclear programs and not a single one of them enriches uranium.

[Publicus]

Somebody's made a bunch of posts about not being semantic while being in fact semantic, which is a compulsion some certain people have anyway and are well known to have it.

All the same, the point how the sanctions laws (or any laws) are written has much to do in respect of the president's executive application of them.

The major difference of fact is of course the "shall" or "may" language in a law, 'shall' being imperative and 'may' naturally being permissive, optional. And the quallifications that are often attached to the "may" option....as in may do x y and z or could do any one or two of x y z.....perhaps none of the three for a period of time but only "if" etc etc. Laws are written like that all the time.

That is legal language that is central to the application of the laws. It has nothing to do with semantics.

The Joint Resolution the House and Senate have drawn up and are keeping in a drawer until the time comes, as it shall indeed come, has "shall not' prohibitive language to require the prez not to suspend enforcement of the sanctions laws or of doing any similar executive actions.

The fact remains however the president can observe the executive/administrative rules and regulations the Executive Branch has promulgated independently to implement the sanctions laws.

The prez always has the option in any event, in respect of any law or laws, to follow the rules and regs strictly, or not so strictly. The Congress knows this from long ago.

If the Treasury Department, or DepState, Energy Department etc happen to be too busy to strictly follow the rules and regulations implementing the sanctions laws, or perhaps they happen to be underfunded or understaffed, then the sanctions might not have the same strict application they've had in the past. I think we can expect that to occur.

It's the old balance of powers trick used by the second President John Adams, the thrid President Thomas Jefferson and all the presidents after them and since.

[chuckd]

No guesses needed as to how Iran would spend any money forthcoming from the easing of sanctions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11515603/Iran-is-intensifying-efforts-to-support-Hamas-in-Gaza.html

Of course this was yet another item completely omitted from the so called agreement.

They are also helping fight ISIS.

Solving issues in Israel, while not easy, can more easily be done via negotiation. We've gotten close before. We can again.

Stoping ISIS, that requires all hands. The US needs to get over 1979. The hostages were released, and though not perfect, the country is more democratic and meritocratic today that ever was under the Shah, or as our allies in the whabist nutbag kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It isn't a strech to say that Iran might even be a more natural friend to Israel than we might think. They still even reserve a seat in parliament for Jews.

"They are also helping fight ISIS."

By "they", I assume you mean Hamas? Unfortunately Hamas is not helping in the fight against ISIS.

One of those other terrorist organizations Iran supports is helping fight ISIS...Hezbollah.

Hamas is only into trying to terrorize Israel.

[Pinot]

Frustrating to read the posts from the opposition to this historic peace agreement. It comes from the teapublicans hatred of anything Obama.

It's going to be an historic agreement which will be in effect by the next election. Let's see how opposition to Obamacare and this peace treaty plays out with the voters. Coupled with a nut job candidate, opposition to a peace treaty, insuring millions of people, opposition to the rights of women, LGBT and immigration, support of corporations as people, support of church vs. state and all the rest of the crap Fox is going to make up in the next two years, it's going to be a trouncing of the right when the majority of Americans vote in a presidential election.

The sad part is, they don't care. The right is just going to continue to spew the nonsense...right over the cliff.

[JakeSully]

Are you nuts?

Show me 1 place in the official transcript where Iran is allowed to enrich weapons grade Uranium?

Less kool aid, more facts.

Show me where in the official transcript Iran will be subject to random inspections without notice any locations where weapons grade uranium development is suspected. No need to share the sugary drinks.

Show me your viewpoint because I call bs!

Just talking and talking bullshit doesn't make it reality.

[JakeSully]

You think the US is getting conned? Well the US doesn't do trade with Iran.

Who gains from this deal.. The English, French, Germans, Russians and Chinese. They're the real ones to gain.

And why are we even arguing for the Israeli Agenda? What has Israel ever done for us?

Did they send 1 soldier to help us in Afghanistan?

Did they send 1 dollar to help us for our national deficit?

Did they respect our citizens? No they kill them by running them over with a bulldozer Look up Rachel Corrie

If they are our best friends, well then we really don't need enemies.

Edit: You're right, the US is getting conned by right wing Israelis.. Obama sees it for what it is and so do the europeans. At some point.. America has to think Americans first. I took a pledge of allegiance to the US flag, not the Israel one. Nuff said.

Edited April 6, 2015 by JakeSully

[samran]

No guesses needed as to how Iran would spend any money forthcoming from the easing of sanctions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11515603/Iran-is-intensifying-efforts-to-support-Hamas-in-Gaza.html

Of course this was yet another item completely omitted from the so called agreement.

They are also helping fight ISIS.

Solving issues in Israel, while not easy, can more easily be done via negotiation. We've gotten close before. We can again.

Stoping ISIS, that requires all hands. The US needs to get over 1979. The hostages were released, and though not perfect, the country is more democratic and meritocratic today that ever was under the Shah, or as our allies in the whabist nutbag kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It isn't a strech to say that Iran might even be a more natural friend to Israel than we might think. They still even reserve a seat in parliament for Jews.

"They are also helping fight ISIS."

By "they", I assume you mean Hamas? Unfortunately Hamas is not helping in the fight against ISIS.

One of those other terrorist organizations Iran supports is helping fight ISIS...Hezbollah.

Hamas is only into trying to terrorize Israel.

No Charles. Iran.

Keep up....

[chuckd]

No guesses needed as to how Iran would spend any money forthcoming from the easing of sanctions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11515603/Iran-is-intensifying-efforts-to-support-Hamas-in-Gaza.html

Of course this was yet another item completely omitted from the so called agreement.

They are also helping fight ISIS.

Solving issues in Israel, while not easy, can more easily be done via negotiation. We've gotten close before. We can again.

Stoping ISIS, that requires all hands. The US needs to get over 1979. The hostages were released, and though not perfect, the country is more democratic and meritocratic today that ever was under the Shah, or as our allies in the whabist nutbag kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It isn't a strech to say that Iran might even be a more natural friend to Israel than we might think. They still even reserve a seat in parliament for Jews.

"They are also helping fight ISIS."

By "they", I assume you mean Hamas? Unfortunately Hamas is not helping in the fight against ISIS.

One of those other terrorist organizations Iran supports is helping fight ISIS...Hezbollah.

Hamas is only into trying to terrorize Israel.

No Charles. Iran.

Keep up....

Thank you, Sam. I am finally clear on another of your convoluted posts.

[samran]

Thank you, Sam. I am finally clear on another of your convoluted posts.

Thanks.

I'll try to keep things simple for the Thai Visa conservative caucus. I forgot that is what you are used to. God forbid complexity.

Obama BAD!!!!!

Iran BAD!!!!

Bibi RIGHT!!!!

Edited April 6, 2015 by samran

[Jingthing]

You think the US is getting conned? Well the US doesn't do trade with Iran.

Who gains from this deal.. The English, French, Germans, Russians and Chinese. They're the real ones to gain.

And why are we even arguing for the Israeli Agenda? What has Israel ever done for us?

Did they send 1 soldier to help us in Afghanistan?

Did they send 1 dollar to help us for our national deficit?

Did they respect our citizens? No they kill them by running them over with a bulldozer Look up Rachel Corrie

If they are our best friends, well then we really don't need enemies.

Edit: You're right, the US is getting conned by right wing Israelis.. Obama sees it for what it is and so do the europeans. At some point.. America has to think Americans first. I took a pledge of allegiance to the US flag, not the Israel one. Nuff said.

It's interesting that people clearly hostile to Israel seem to gleefully perceive this deal with Iran as throwing Israel under the bus. Seems as if they agree with Bibi on that! To be clear, Obama is telling Israel they are not being thrown under the bus, that this deal will ultimately be helpful to Israel. Someones lying, huh?

As far as the U.S. doing business with Iran, it is true not now, but obviously big American businesses would be very enthusiastic about starting that again. It's a great potential market filled with western culture loving young people who deserve much better than their horrible fundamentalist regime.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Jingthing

[SheungWan]

No guesses needed as to how Iran would spend any money forthcoming from the easing of sanctions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11515603/Iran-is-intensifying-efforts-to-support-Hamas-in-Gaza.html

Of course this was yet another item completely omitted from the so called agreement.

They are also helping fight ISIS.

Solving issues in Israel, while not easy, can more easily be done via negotiation. We've gotten close before. We can again.

Stoping ISIS, that requires all hands. The US needs to get over 1979. The hostages were released, and though not perfect, the country is more democratic and meritocratic today that ever was under the Shah, or as our allies in the whabist nutbag kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It isn't a strech to say that Iran might even be a more natural friend to Israel than we might think. They still even reserve a seat in parliament for Jews.

The contortions some will get themselves into as a result of their cravenness in face of a state sponsor of terrorism. This is where those on the left with Third-Worldist ideologies end up, namely trying to paint Iran as a normalised 'more democratic' entity. One would think that the Iranian Green Movement never happened, that the left (oh no) hadn't either been imprisoned or executed and that the Supreme Leader was just a friendly uncle. For some the prime yardstick for Iran is their position against Israel. Everything else is subordinated. Wearing a leftish T-shirt is less these days of a confused mind and more of a cheerleader's uniform. And a pom-pom list of excuses.

[samran]

No guesses needed as to how Iran would spend any money forthcoming from the easing of sanctions.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11515603/Iran-is-intensifying-efforts-to-support-Hamas-in-Gaza.html

Of course this was yet another item completely omitted from the so called agreement.

They are also helping fight ISIS.

Solving issues in Israel, while not easy, can more easily be done via negotiation. We've gotten close before. We can again.

Stoping ISIS, that requires all hands. The US needs to get over 1979. The hostages were released, and though not perfect, the country is more democratic and meritocratic today that ever was under the Shah, or as our allies in the whabist nutbag kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It isn't a strech to say that Iran might even be a more natural friend to Israel than we might think. They still even reserve a seat in parliament for Jews.

The contortions some will get themselves into as a result of their cravenness in face of a state sponsor of terrorism. This is where those on the left with Third-Worldist ideologies end up, namely trying to paint Iran as a normalised 'more democratic' entity. One would think that the Iranian Green Movement never happened, that the left (oh no) hadn't either been imprisoned or executed and that the Supreme Leader was just a friendly uncle. For some the prime yardstick for Iran is their position against Israel. Everything else is subordinated. Wearing a leftish T-shirt is less these days of a confused mind and more of a cheerleader's uniform. And a pom-pom list of excuses.

um, yeah, okay. Wrote all that yourself did you?

For such strident fury against states which sponsor terrorism I hope you walk everywhere. Can't be a hypocrite driving around using saudi sourced petrol can we?

[Neurath]

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Obama and Kerry bring to my mind that they would be the ideal customers for an Iranian carpet dealer.

Iranian carpet dealers are notorious for being difficult salesmen. They will drive hard bargains, often giving up nothing to gain what they finally want to achieve.

If they sense you are really hot to buy a particular carpet, you are dead in the water. You will end up losing all your ready cash and they will have a mortgage on your first born. You will then go home with your new purchase only to find out, in the light of day, it wasn't really as attractive as you thought and, in the end, doesn't really suit your needs.

The only way to deal with them is to offer them half of what they ask when the negotiations begin. Then as they come down, and they invariably will, you go up until you reach the price you want to pay. If they refuse to get to your price, you must be prepared to get in your car and go home without the carpet. I have been stopped many times as I was getting in my car and invited back in to talk some more. I usually ended up with the carpet at my price, but it took a few losses in the beginning to learn my lesson.

My ex-wife now owns some 25 Iranian carpets, ranging from a 9 X 12 Nain silk and wool to some Qom silk wall hangers.

My point in all this?

Obama and Kerry are amateurs dealing with the sharpest carpet sellers in the market. They are in over their heads and will end up with a meaningless, and perhaps temporary, agreement.

Valerie didn't school these two enough but, then, perhaps this is what she wanted all the time.

And this brings to mind Time Magazine and paraphrase dressed as recollection.

See if the deal works. If it doesn't reimpose sanctions.

"And this brings to mind Time Magazine and paraphrase dressed as recollection."

Are you being so foolish as to accuse me of lifting something from Time Magazine? Spit it out, with a link. I'd like to see it myself.

No link? How about a post clarifying your remark.

http://time.com/3770461/iran-deal-michael-oren-obama-israel/

The Iran Deal and how not to buy a Middle Eastern Carpet

April 3. Written by former Israeli ambassador to the US and current member of the Knesset Michael Owens.

I suppose the talking points and with it the carpet metaphor and wily Persian's are pretty widely disseminated by this point. I think they call it a meme.

Anyway, it's all there. The whole thing. Hey, what do I know, maybe Michael Owen copied from you? Or both of you from the same place.

[Pinot]

I think this comment under the Time piece is appropriate:

"Oren, you're one of the reasons we're in the crap we're in in the Middle East. You and your backers are far more dangerous to the world than Iran ever thought of being."

And this one puts it all in perspective:

"All of the Republican presidential contenders condemned Obama for reaching a diplomatic deal with Iran, but said that they stand with Indiana governor Pence and his anti-LGBT bill, so go figure."

[Grouse]

I do wish some posters would read up on a bit of history. May I suggest a look at the Suez Crisis and the subsequent effects of the famous anti colonial American stance?

Frankly, it would be better if the Americans returned to their beloved isolationist policies and kept involvement to coming in at the last minute to control the spoils of conflicts

I am heartened that grown ups from other major powers have been able to assist in getting this positive outcome

Our cousins might like to reflect upon their diplomatic "successes" over the past six decades since the Marshall plan.

I for one have much more time for the Iranians than the Saudis. Who's fault is it that the Ayatollahs came to power.

Anyway, don't worry, Hillary will keep everything on an even keel.

[Jingthing]

Cousins? Don't flatter yourself.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[chuckd]

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Obama and Kerry bring to my mind that they would be the ideal customers for an Iranian carpet dealer.

Iranian carpet dealers are notorious for being difficult salesmen. They will drive hard bargains, often giving up nothing to gain what they finally want to achieve.

If they sense you are really hot to buy a particular carpet, you are dead in the water. You will end up losing all your ready cash and they will have a mortgage on your first born. You will then go home with your new purchase only to find out, in the light of day, it wasn't really as attractive as you thought and, in the end, doesn't really suit your needs.

The only way to deal with them is to offer them half of what they ask when the negotiations begin. Then as they come down, and they invariably will, you go up until you reach the price you want to pay. If they refuse to get to your price, you must be prepared to get in your car and go home without the carpet. I have been stopped many times as I was getting in my car and invited back in to talk some more. I usually ended up with the carpet at my price, but it took a few losses in the beginning to learn my lesson.

My ex-wife now owns some 25 Iranian carpets, ranging from a 9 X 12 Nain silk and wool to some Qom silk wall hangers.

My point in all this?

Obama and Kerry are amateurs dealing with the sharpest carpet sellers in the market. They are in over their heads and will end up with a meaningless, and perhaps temporary, agreement.

Valerie didn't school these two enough but, then, perhaps this is what she wanted all the time.

And this brings to mind Time Magazine and paraphrase dressed as recollection.

See if the deal works. If it doesn't reimpose sanctions.

"And this brings to mind Time Magazine and paraphrase dressed as recollection."

Are you being so foolish as to accuse me of lifting something from Time Magazine? Spit it out, with a link. I'd like to see it myself.

No link? How about a post clarifying your remark.

http://time.com/3770461/iran-deal-michael-oren-obama-israel/

The Iran Deal and how not to buy a Middle Eastern Carpet

April 3. Written by former Israeli ambassador to the US and current member of the Knesset Michael Owens.

I suppose the talking points and with it the carpet metaphor and wily Persian's are pretty widely disseminated by this point. I think they call it a meme.

Anyway, it's all there. The whole thing. Hey, what do I know, maybe Michael Owen copied from you? Or both of you from the same place.

Thanks for the link. First time I had seen the article and I found it spot on.

The Iranians have played Obama and Kerry and the whiz kids from the P5+1 like a toy fiddle.

Why don't you send the link to them...or copy my post which I made without ever seeing the article.

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been removed.

[up-country_sinclair]

Historic? You bet.

The Saudis are on board.

Saudi Arabia released a cautious statement Monday endorsing the nuclear “framework” agreement reached last week between Iran and six world powers.

“The council of ministers,” a top governing body within the Saudi system, “expressed hope for attaining a binding and definitive agreement that would lead to the strengthening of security and stability in the region and the world,” read the statement, first published by the Saudi state news agency.

The careful Saudi embrace of the Iran deal stands in contrast to that of Israel, whose officials, including Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on Sunday, have lashed out at the negotiations in a serious of interviews and statements.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/2015/04/saudi-arabia-iran-nuclear-deal-116694.html#ixzz3WY1SIE2B

So now that the KSA endorses the deal, then it's extremely likely that the rest of the Arab nations will follow suit.

Therefore, how many of the 193 UN member states are opposed to this highly pragmatic deal?

I count one.

[Scott]

An off-topic post removed.

[mikebike]

Are you nuts?

Show me 1 place in the official transcript where Iran is allowed to enrich weapons grade Uranium?

Less kool aid, more facts.

Show me where in the official transcript Iran will be subject to random inspections without notice any locations where weapons grade uranium development is suspected. No need to share the sugary drinks.

Yes, they must ONLY be random inspections - you KNOW how easy it is to hide weapons-grade uranium AND it's manufacture from those dedicated to detecting it... Really, Iran is only 2 years from having a fully operational global-destruction technology code-named "BAISeD"... Bait America Into Self Destruction.

[mikebike]

17 nations have peaceful nuclear programs and not a single one of them enriches uranium.

You are just plain wrong:

" The following countries are known to operate enrichment facilities: Argentina, Brazil, China, France, Germany, India, Iran, Japan, the Netherlands, North Korea, Pakistan, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States.[21][22] Belgium, Iran, Italy, and Spain hold an investment interest in the French Eurodifenrichment plant."

You may also use Wiki to learn about low-enriched uranium: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enriched_uranium#Global_enrichment_facilities

But don't let facts obscure the argument...

[mikebike]

No guesses needed as to how IRAN would spend any money forthcoming from the easing of sanctions.

They are also helping fight ISIS.

By "they", I assume you mean Hamas?

No Charles. Iran.

Thank you, Sam. I am finally clear on another of your convoluted posts.

Who's on first?

[JakeSully]

This sounds like the scary Indian Government which has nukes getting Nuclear Fuel from the US.. OMG we're so gonna die, why isn't the GOP jumping up and down there.. is it because Iran has lots of oil that their oil barons who finance their campaigns want at the cost of the American taxpayer?

[hawker9000]

This sounds like the scary Indian Government which has nukes getting Nuclear Fuel from the US.. OMG we're so gonna die, why isn't the GOP jumping up and down there.. is it because Iran has lots of oil that their oil barons who finance their campaigns want at the cost of the American taxpayer?

And speaking of oil, why does a nation awash in it need or want nuclear power for any legitimate purpose in the first place ...

• Iran is OPEC's second largest producer of oil
• Iran is the world's fifth largest producer of oil
• Iran is the world's 2nd largest producer of natural gas (after Russia)
• 3.8 to 4.0 millions barrels of oil produced per day for the last several years

Investing resources in an alternative energy source when technical and financial resources could be put to much more profitable use for investments in developing oil reserves, seems just a bit counter-intuitive ...

... unless, of course, an "alternative energy source" isn't really the objective.

Now I wonder. Could all those references to the destruction of Israel provide us with a clue? Ya' think?

If Obama can just manage to kick the can past Friday, Jan 20, 2017, he'll be able to do precisely what he does best. Blame somebody else.

[Naam]

And speaking of oil, why does a nation awash in it need or want nuclear power for any legitimate purpose in the first place ...

worthwhile to mention that Iran's oil reserves will last for the next 37,587 years

[thaibeachlovers]

Obama will still have a legacy. An economic recovery. Most progress in gay civil rights in US history. Even if Obamacare per se is scrapped Americans will never give up the concept that people with preexisting conditions need access to health care.

Sent from my Lenovo S820_ROW using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Deleted because of moderator warning.

Edited April 7, 2015 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

And speaking of oil, why does a nation awash in it need or want nuclear power for any legitimate purpose in the first place ...

worthwhile to mention that Iran's oil reserves will last for the next 37,587 years

Don't you believe in Global warming? Nuclear doesn't contribute to greenhouse gas emissions, so it's a good thing.

[thaibeachlovers]

You think the US is getting conned? Well the US doesn't do trade with Iran.

Who gains from this deal.. The English, French, Germans, Russians and Chinese. They're the real ones to gain.

And why are we even arguing for the Israeli Agenda? What has Israel ever done for us?

Did they send 1 soldier to help us in Afghanistan?

Did they send 1 dollar to help us for our national deficit?

Did they respect our citizens? No they kill them by running them over with a bulldozer Look up Rachel Corrie

If they are our best friends, well then we really don't need enemies.

Edit: You're right, the US is getting conned by right wing Israelis.. Obama sees it for what it is and so do the europeans. At some point.. America has to think Americans first. I took a pledge of allegiance to the US flag, not the Israel one. Nuff said.

It's interesting that people clearly hostile to Israel seem to gleefully perceive this deal with Iran as throwing Israel under the bus. Seems as if they agree with Bibi on that! To be clear, Obama is telling Israel they are not being thrown under the bus, that this deal will ultimately be helpful to Israel. Someones lying, huh?

As far as the U.S. doing business with Iran, it is true not now, but obviously big American businesses would be very enthusiastic about starting that again. It's a great potential market filled with western culture loving young people who deserve much better than their horrible fundamentalist regime.

It's a great potential market

So you see the deal as potentially being able to exploit them?

filled with western culture loving young people who deserve much better

If they love western culture, which is interently capitalist ergo exploitative of the lower classes by the 1%, perhaps they deserve the mullahs. Had you said they deserve to have freedom to be whatever they want, I'd have agreed with you.