Scott Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Off-topic posts have been removed. Please stay on topic. Although there are differences in reported numbers, there are are approximately 300,000 people of Cambodians descent residing in the US. These include people of Khmer, Vietnamese/Cambodia mix and ethnic Chinese as well as Cham people from Cambodia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kondiao Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 A sad sad episode in south east Asian history.. It's kinda a pity Thai kids don't learn it in school! The real pity is that the American kids never learn it in school or anywhere. This is bullshit. The real tragedy is that American kids are taught in school that the war was about the Vietnamese fighting for freedom from the Americans. But no one has ever told me what they imagine the Americans wanted in Vietnam. Or what kind of freedom the Vietnamese have had under the communists, or any nation that has been ruled by communists. Some of the comments on this article show that the conventional - shared - wisdom is that the communists in SE Asia were fighting for freedom and the Americans were the aggressors. When I went to Vietnam with the U.S. Marines in 1969 is was to protect the Vietnamese from the communists who wanted to take over a free nation. - which is what the U.S./UN troops did in South Korea in 1951-53 - which is what the Americans and Allies did when they went to Thailand and drove the Japanese out to give Thailand its freedom after the Thai PM invited the Japanese into his country. Young people in America are led to believe that the U.S. was the problem in Vietnam and the communists were the solution. Old people in America now still believe that the U.S. was wrong to intervene against the communist incursions in Vietnam, Cambodia and Lao. But the basic historical fact that the communist regime was responsible for the deaths of about 2 million people in Cambodia - after the war was over.. Some people (communist sympathisers) want to say that it was really only 1.8 million; others put the figure at 2.8 mil ( those who mistrust the communists). But I say this insanity was the reason that we - I - got involved - to prevent the unbelievable horrors that communists have always brought with them once they take total power from the common people. I remember that spring of 1975, when the announcements came that South Vietnam was liberated by the NVA and Pnom Penh had been freed of the U.S.-backed regime, I remember the feeling of universal joy - freedom at last - young AMericans wallowing in shame at the Americans conduct in SE Asia - college professors proclaiming themselves heroes for having been "against the war," all the time. I remember in anthrology class, a hip young guy, "anti-war," of course, saying that "everyone" had thought the scene in Pnom Pehn was going to be a mellow take-over, with no one getting hurt. "Everyone" meaning the whole 25,000 or so students at San Jose Stare University - except me. I remember in the spring of 1970, at Nam-O on Highway 1 in South Vietnam, the powers that be decided to invade Cambodia to crush the NVA using the Ho Chi Minh Trail to bring soldiers and weapons down into the the southern part of SOuth Vietnam. The U.S. Army was sent in that misson; I was kept - the 26th Marine Regiment - guarding Nam-O Bridge. At that time the NVA and Vietcong were not very active in South Vietnam. Some say it was because they knew we were going to abandon SE Asia sooner or later and they would win by waiting us out. Others believe it had to do with the communists' "victory: in the great battle of Tet, in 1968, when the communist forces lost so many of their veteran soldiers and gained not one square foot of territory and failed to ignite a peoples' uprising against the South Vietnamese regime. No one asked me about what was really going on in Viet Nam; no one asked me what I saw and did - they asked me about the torturing of Vietcong suspects; they got in my face about the massacre at My Lai. Everyone in AMerica knows about the hundreds of civilians murdered by American soldiers at My Lai. But no one considers the millions murdered by the boys with AK-47's in Cambodia - after the war was over. People are taught in school - as they were taught by the media acounts back then - that the ragged guerillas "kicked our ass". People are led to believe the revolutionaries used brilliant guerilla tactics i.e recruiting boys at gun point from villages and sending them to murder villagers and take their rice. Killing civilians until "we" - the American administration - got bored with the whole thing and abandoned the cause - and they kept on killing people in their reprisals. In Russia they caused millions to die in the fields because of their insane experiments with developing snow-resistant grains. In Viet Nam they ploughed up the graveyards of slain ARVN soldiers. I could go on. But no one wants to hear these things. People just want to brush off communist atrocities as being past history - and say the whole problem was that we saw reds under our beds. I don't hate communists like I don't hate cancer. Yet I don't think it is O.K. that either one takes over your life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamRich Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 Don't start something you are not prepared to finish springs to mind. This truism doesn't just apply to the U.S but to anyone who intervenes in a foreign Country, especially if done so on ostensibly humanitarian grounds. LOL. And just when has that ever happened? We go to war about money, not for humanitarian reasons. There was rice and rubber in Vietnam, and if the Communist were to take it over then it was the western companies that benefited from the rice and rubber that stood to lose. And it was because of those companies that the politicians had to back a war. Because how did the politicians get into office in the first place? Because of contributions from those companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickJ Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 And on it rolls.....where it stops nobody knows. Forget repeat.....forget repeat. History and understanding it and remembering it is a sad hope. I enjoyed this topic not only informative but from the horses mouth puts in into a good perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerangutang Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 There were many factors at play at that time and place, but ultimately it was the Cambodian people and other SE Asians who made the messes they had to live and die with. For sure, the US made grave mistakes, but not as grave as what the Khmer Rouge did. The US can be daddy up to a point, but there comes a time when people have to take responsibility for what happens in their own neighborhood, and try to fix things. A similar dynamic has been happening in the Middle East, is still happening, and will continue for at least several more generations. Natives in the M.East want daddy (the US) to fix things, but they concurrently bad-mouth Uncle Sam for meddling. It's like when a kid is supposedly mature enough to leave home and meet the big world on his/her own. SE Asians and Middle Easterners (and Africans, and others) are like the big kids - stepping out in the big world to try and make a go of it. However, when things go bad, what do they do? They reach for the phone and call daddy, "Hi, dad. I didn't want to call you, but I got this problem. Yea, I need money, and I need your expertise to get me out of this jam." That's it in a nutshell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerangutang Posted April 10, 2015 Share Posted April 10, 2015 "Isn't there any sense of human decency left in us?" Very disturbing account of the last days of the fall of Cambodia to the Khmer Rouge... Countries were more naïve to the lack of integrity in US foreign policy in those days... Few countries in the world pay much attention to what the US says these days...so much hot air... I'd say many countries ww still look to the US to set things right. It's two faced policy: On the one hand, it's PC for leaders in trouble to put up a public face of being independent and not needing Uncle Sam to come in and straighten things out. However, privately, they very much want the US on their side and, if need be, dynamically intervening to set things on a better track. Just one example of many: both the Iraqi and Afghan gov'ts tell their people that US is leaving. Yet, in private conversations they contact US generals and tell 'em "help. Please bring your soldiers back. We're about to be over-run by terrorists (Or Sunnis or Shiites or ....whatever). Oh, and please don't tell my people that I'm pleading with you for help." so the khmer rouge is america's fault as well. Where was thailand in all of this? its their neighbors. funny how Vietnam was the one to clean up Cambodia. Thailand was doing then what it does now: staying behind its border fence and hoping the horrors don't spill over. There are similarities with the territory grab by China in the S.China Sea: Thailand and other SE Asian countries are hiding behind their fences, while once in awhile saying benign things like, "let's hope everyone can work it out." ....when what ASEAN should be doing is standing alongside Philippines and Vietnam - taking a dynamic stand for what's right - even if it's contrary to what cash-heavy China wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Water Buffalo Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 (edited) And all because of an irrational fear of communism! The Vietnamese just wanted their country back and just look at the collateral damage in meibouring countries! Act in haste and repent at leisure as they say! I for one am hoping for a much more isolationist US of A in coming years..... Irrational fear of the bloodiest, most murderous ideology in human history? Don't forget that the Khmer Rouge were the creation of Hanoi and Beijing. And trained by Britain and accepted by the United Nations. In my opinion, capitalism is the most murderous ideology in human history. America and Britain have showed us that in recent years. Edited April 11, 2015 by Water Buffalo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simple1 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Re. Irrational fear of the bloodiest, most murderous ideology in human history? Don't forget that the Khmer Rouge were the creation of Hanoi and Beijing. That is absolute rubbish. Chinese and Vietnamese were the most persecuted minorities in Cambodia during the Khmer Rouge years. Was the Vietnamese who eventually invaded and kicked the Khmer Rouge out and suffered years of sanctions by the US and others as a result. The West were not that interested as no financial incentive to get involved in Cambodia. Actually, by way of percentage of population the Cambodian Cham, Muslims, were the most persecuted by the Kymer Rouge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerangutang Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 In my opinion, capitalism is the most murderous ideology in human history. America and Britain have showed us that in recent years.....more deaths than Christianity or Islam? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
727Sky Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 And all because of an irrational fear of communism! The Vietnamese just wanted their country back and just look at the collateral damage in meibouring countries! Act in haste and repent at leisure as they say! I for one am hoping for a much more isolationist US of A in coming years..... Irrational fear of the bloodiest, most murderous ideology in human history? Don't forget that the Khmer Rouge were the creation of Hanoi and Beijing. And trained by Britain and accepted by the United Nations. In my opinion, capitalism is the most murderous ideology in human history. America and Britain have showed us that in recent years. Read history much ? Check China under the Communist take over. Check Russia under Stalin... Those two alone are over 45 million deaths.. Japan and the bombs...Quote: Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects of the atomic bombings killed 90,000166,000 people in Hiroshima and 39,00080,000 in Nagasaki; roughly half of the deaths in each city occurred on the first day. During the following months, large numbers died from the effect of burns, radiation sickness, and other injuries, compounded by illness and malnutrition. In both cities, most of the dead were civilians, although Hiroshima had a sizable military garrison. END QUOTE: If there had been a land invasion of Japan the estimates range for a low of half a million dead on each side of the conflict to well over one million each.. If you really feel so sorry for Japan talk to a Chinese and ask the what Japan did in Nanking or Shanghai during their conquest. The numbers you might find are just the ones shot, stabbed, buried alive or clubbed to death... There were much more starved to death.. The Japan of today is not the Japan of yesteryear with the ideology of Bushido .... Probably all this is lost on a non student of history or someone who does not read.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
727Sky Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 And all because of an irrational fear of communism! The Vietnamese just wanted their country back and just look at the collateral damage in meibouring countries! Act in haste and repent at leisure as they say! I for one am hoping for a much more isolationist US of A in coming years..... Irrational fear of the bloodiest, most murderous ideology in human history? Don't forget that the Khmer Rouge were the creation of Hanoi and Beijing. And trained by Britain and accepted by the United Nations. In my opinion, capitalism is the most murderous ideology in human history. America and Britain have showed us that in recent years. Read history much ? Check China under the Communist take over. Check Russia under Stalin... Those two alone are over 45 million deaths.. Japan and the bombs...Quote: Within the first two to four months of the bombings, the acute effects of the atomic bombings killed 90,000166,000 people in Hiroshima and 39,00080,000 in Nagasaki; roughly half of the deaths in each city occurred on the first day. During the following months, large numbers died from the effect of burns, radiation sickness, and other injuries, compounded by illness and malnutrition. In both cities, most of the dead were civilians, although Hiroshima had a sizable military garrison. END QUOTE: If there had been a land invasion of Japan the estimates range for a low of half a million dead on each side of the conflict to well over one million each.. If you really feel so sorry for Japan talk to a Chinese and ask the what Japan did in Nanking or Shanghai during their conquest. The numbers you might find are just the ones shot, stabbed, buried alive or clubbed to death... There were much more starved to death.. The Japan of today is not the Japan of yesteryear with the ideology of Bushido .... Probably all this is lost on a non student of history or someone who does not read.. Weird the web sight added 000 to both those counts; the counts should have been...( 90,166,000 people in Hiroshima and 39,80,000 in Nagasaki; roughly half of the deaths)for a total of around 140,000 one hundred forty thousand !! Weird ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h90 Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 And not forget that later on the USA supported the Khmer Rouge.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Off-topic posts and replies removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zydeco Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 And not forget that later on the USA supported the Khmer Rouge.... As did China and Thailand. And China far more than the US. And don't forget the president who gave the Khmer Rouge support and backing was none other than that champion of human rights, Jimmy Carter. Usually, the American haters slobber all over Carter but always conveniently forget that he was the one who backed the Khmer Rouge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catoni Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 (edited) And all because of an irrational fear of communism! The Vietnamese just wanted their country back and just look at the collateral damage in meibouring countries! Act in haste and repent at leisure as they say! I for one am hoping for a much more isolationist US of A in coming years..... You mean the north Vietnamese communist party leaders wanted to spread their dictatorship to the south... yes.. the Vietnamese people loved communism so much that there were more than 500,000 Vietnamese that voted with their feet at the end (their last chance for a free vote) and fled the country... And the South Vietnamese also wanted their country back... "...irrational few of communism!" Uhmm... comrade... If you are trying to be funny.... you failed. Communism was the biggest mass murdering nightmare of the 20th century... "...irrational fear of communism!" Wow ! ! Here's some numbers for you.... COMMUNISM: The Soviet Gulag State: 61,911,000 Murdered, The Communist Chinese: 35,236,000 Murdered, The Communist Khmer Rouge in Cambodia: 2,035,000 Murdered, Your "Nice" Communist Vietnamese "just wanted their country back": 1,670,000 Murdered, Communist Yugoslavia: 1,072,000 Murdered, The Orwellian Communist North Korea. 1,663,000 Murdered? Are you keeping track of the numbers for your friendly 'no need to fear" communism ? ? Just from those alone, it appears that communism murdered at least 103,587,000. Thats more than one hundred million murdered by communism. And it's not counting all the smaller numbers of killings by communism in the other communist states. Ever read "The Gulag Archipelago" by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn ? ? Compared to both the murderous Soviet Union and brutal Communist China..... Hitler's Nazi Germany although sickening and monstrously murderous like the communists ...didn't kill as many as the communists... 20,946,000 Murdered: Nazi Germany Irrational few of communism..... indeed . Okay... whatever you say.. Totalitarian governments of both Nazi/Fascist or Communism are deadly murdering states... It's perfectly rational to fear all forms of totalitarianism.... perfectly rational to fear communism... and totally irrational and idiotic not to fear them.... There's all kinds of information in the historical records now about mass murder under communist regimes.... Edited April 11, 2015 by Catoni Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Let's stay on topic, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Catoni Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 Let's stay on topic, please. My apologies.... I found myself unable to ignore an ignorant statement saying that fearing communism is irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 And all because of an irrational fear of communism! The Vietnamese just wanted their country back and just look at the collateral damage in meibouring countries! Act in haste and repent at leisure as they say! I for one am hoping for a much more isolationist US of A in coming years..... You mean the north Vietnamese communist party leaders wanted to spread their dictatorship to the south... yes.. the Vietnamese people loved communism so much that there were more than 500,000 Vietnamese that voted with their feet at the end (their last chance for a free vote) and fled the country... And the South Vietnamese also wanted their country back... "...irrational few of communism!" Uhmm... comrade... If you are trying to be funny.... you failed. Communism was the biggest mass murdering nightmare of the 20th century... "...irrational fear of communism!" Wow ! ! Here's some numbers for you.... COMMUNISM: The Soviet Gulag State: 61,911,000 Murdered, The Communist Chinese: 35,236,000 Murdered, The Communist Khmer Rouge in Cambodia: 2,035,000 Murdered, Your "Nice" Communist Vietnamese "just wanted their country back": 1,670,000 Murdered, Communist Yugoslavia: 1,072,000 Murdered, The Orwellian Communist North Korea. 1,663,000 Murdered? Are you keeping track of the numbers for your friendly 'no need to fear" communism ? ? Just from those alone, it appears that communism murdered at least 103,587,000. Thats more than one hundred million murdered by communism. And it's not counting all the smaller numbers of killings by communism in the other communist states. Ever read "The Gulag Archipelago" by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn ? ? Compared to both the murderous Soviet Union and brutal Communist China..... Hitler's Nazi Germany although sickening and monstrously murderous like the communists ...didn't kill as many as the communists... 20,946,000 Murdered: Nazi Germany Irrational few of communism..... indeed . Okay... whatever you say.. Totalitarian governments of both Nazi/Fascist or Communism are deadly murdering states... It's perfectly rational to fear all forms of totalitarianism.... perfectly rational to fear communism... and totally irrational and idiotic not to fear them.... There's all kinds of information in the historical records now about mass murder under communist regimes.... Think how much more over populated the world would be without communism !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 This will be the final notice to stay on topic. Continued off-topic posting will result in suspensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yahooka Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 I have to disagree with Dean, the worst thing America did with Cambodia, was siding with the Khmer Rouge when Vietnam liberated Cambodia in 1979. America and its puppy dog Britain trained and armed the Khmer Rough in camps along the Thai border, the Brits took KR cadres to Malaysia for training. Margaret Thatcher in a rare attack of conscience ended Britain's aid to the KR And so did the UN and most other democratic nations also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeverSure Posted April 11, 2015 Share Posted April 11, 2015 The topic is, I think, pulling out of Cambodia and leaving it to itself. 1. I know of no time in history when a guerrilla army was defeated on its own soil, no matter how "mighty" the opposition. 2. Neither the US nor the allies have outright won a war since WWII. Winning included nuking Japan. Winning included sitting down and formally signing a surrender. Since then, new treaties and conventions have outlawed the methods by which those wars were won. For instance when the allies bombed Germany at night with what today would be primitive navigation, the bombings were indiscriminate hitting anything they could. Sometimes they missed whole cities. The idea was to make the people of the country want the war to stop, and they did in Japan and Germany. With today's ROE, I don't know if anyone could win a war. Japan and Germany became fast allies after getting slaughtered and the reasons are obvious to me. It is silly to think that Cambodia couldn't be whipped, but the goal and the will wasn't there, and probably shouldn't have been. Neither a war in Cambodia nor anywhere else will be won if we don't relearn that war is hell and just do it. Oh, and we need to pick our fights and then go in to win. I'll stop right there. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted April 12, 2015 Share Posted April 12, 2015 IMHO, American involvement in Asia was largely to prevent the so called "domino effect" I maintain that in fact, the Vietnamese wanted their country back after colonial rule for so long. OK so they got support from USSR, but that was a convenience. The involvement by USA and other allies just exacerbated the situation and resulted inassive harm to Vietnam, Cambodia and Lao. For what? Better to REALLY read the history and think the matter through before reaching for the napalm. Super power also requires Super responsibility! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kondiao Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 And all because of an irrational fear of communism! The Vietnamese just wanted their country back and just look at the collateral damage in meibouring countries! Act in haste and repent at leisure as they say! I for one am hoping for a much more isolationist US of A in coming years..... You mean the north Vietnamese communist party leaders wanted to spread their dictatorship to the south... yes.. the Vietnamese people loved communism so much that there were more than 500,000 Vietnamese that voted with their feet at the end (their last chance for a free vote) and fled the country... And the South Vietnamese also wanted their country back... "...irrational few of communism!" Uhmm... comrade... If you are trying to be funny.... you failed. Communism was the biggest mass murdering nightmare of the 20th century... "...irrational fear of communism!" Wow ! ! Here's some numbers for you.... COMMUNISM: The Soviet Gulag State: 61,911,000 Murdered, The Communist Chinese: 35,236,000 Murdered, The Communist Khmer Rouge in Cambodia: 2,035,000 Murdered, Your "Nice" Communist Vietnamese "just wanted their country back": 1,670,000 Murdered, Communist Yugoslavia: 1,072,000 Murdered, The Orwellian Communist North Korea. 1,663,000 Murdered? Are you keeping track of the numbers for your friendly 'no need to fear" communism ? ? Just from those alone, it appears that communism murdered at least 103,587,000. Thats more than one hundred million murdered by communism. And it's not counting all the smaller numbers of killings by communism in the other communist states. Ever read "The Gulag Archipelago" by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn ? ? Compared to both the murderous Soviet Union and brutal Communist China..... Hitler's Nazi Germany although sickening and monstrously murderous like the communists ...didn't kill as many as the communists... 20,946,000 Murdered: Nazi Germany Irrational few of communism..... indeed . Okay... whatever you say.. Totalitarian governments of both Nazi/Fascist or Communism are deadly murdering states... It's perfectly rational to fear all forms of totalitarianism.... perfectly rational to fear communism... and totally irrational and idiotic not to fear them.... There's all kinds of information in the historical records now about mass murder under communist regimes.... I just want to say that I think you are wrong about the number of Vietnamese who fled North Vietnam for the South after the fall of the French colonial regime: I have seen that figure as 1 million people. \ And I was told - in Vietnam, by an officer in the South Vietnamese Regional Forces (not the regular ARVN, sort of like a militia, but they signed for the duration, not for a one-year or two-year tour) that it was mostly the Catholics in North Vietnam who fled from the communists, but later many Buddhists also joined in the migration and altogether - he said - there were almost 1 million people). He, Thieuy Tan, had fought with the Viet Minh and later he left them because the communist core of the Viet Minh were murdering all the non-communists members, "purging" the party , as the Russian communists did, preparing to do the totally ruthless, savage things they were going to do to consolidate their stangle-hold on power over the entire lives of an entire nation. Thieuy Tan was one of the loyal Vietnamese soldiers who stayed to fight for his country and saw the enemy as the communists, not the Americans, and taught me - a Marine grunt, guerilla tactics. How strange it is that no one has ever admitted that such people as him existed, or that Nguyen Cao Ki, when he was president in South Vietnam, asked the Americans for help. Like there was no movement in the whole country of people who wanted peace and not a total tyranny by communists. And you have left out a few uncounted millions of people here and there: the farmers who died of starvation in the Soviet Union after the WWII, because of the agricultural policies under that madman, Lysenko. But maybe you were including these people under the heading of "murdered". And I think you left out the Tibetans - but there were probably only in the 100's of thousands of monks and civilians murdered by Chinese communists. Uncounted others are homeless and under-paid laborers and prostitutes since the Chinese liberated them and freed them from the shackles of religion and superstition, while destroying their temples and pushing them off their lands. And there were the peasants in China during the early 1950's that Chairman Mao decided were expendable: he took their crops from them - and left the entire population of that province to die of starvation - in order tp sell that grain on the world market to get needed capital - in order to fight coming war in Korea. What a guy, that Mao Tse Tung, making tough decisions in order to bring us all a better future. My source for this information was just a student at San Jose State University, from Hong Kong. His parents had fled China, taking him as a baby, when the communists liberated China - from whom?? the U.S.A.? This Chinese guy yet told me he felt that the communists were right to do what ever they had to do to win, though having been raised in a corrupt capitalistc Western-style materialistic democracy he personally would not think about living in the workers' paradise of the communists. He would die first. I cannot prove that this incident is true - how could I know? But I find it believable, given the total savagery of communists when they have total power over the lives of their people. Kind of like so many people tell me that the U.S.A. sent me to fight in Viet Nam to conquer that country in order to exploit it. Where do they get this information? It follows from the media reports that were jammed into everyone's minds every day from 1966-75, I guess. What I don't get is why this could be so, given that the U.S. did not interfere in the politics of South Korea after we went to so much trouble to prevent the North Koreans and Chinese from liberating it. It seems to all appearances the people of South Korea have a sovereign nation and a high material standard of living. I don't care about the politics and the economics I am just speaking of the fact that people living in South Korea can sleep in warm houses not in the snow and they can complain about their corrupt governemnt without being sent to concentration camps. What good would it have done for the U.S.A. to have conquered South Viet Nam (the United Nations had already given up the North to the communists in the treaty in 1954).? Whatever expoitation is beng done in 3d World countries by Western countries - and by communist countries and Japan - is more simply and cheaply accomplished by old-fashioned capitalistic trade. I apologize for the ranting. Yet it still irks me that people still want to kick the U.S.A. abut the fiasco in Viet Nam. They still say the same trash that they said back then and it is till presenting insults in place of facts, ignoring the facts that don't fit with their attitudes. The Vietnamese who fled to North America in the late 1970's are able to live in without fear that communist guerillas will come in the night. And they are free to bad-mouth the country that gave up so much to give them their freedom. The Vietnamese in Vietnam have put the American War behind them, somewhat, and are concerned about past and furture wars with China. And there will be no evacuation of Vietnamese into China when their next war is over. The thing that you and I agree on is that communism has been a horrible part of human history. I wish people could get that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerangutang Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 The movie; Heaven and Earth (directed by Oliver Stone) gives good insight on the Vietnam war, before and after - mostly from the perspective of a Vietnamese girl - who winds up marrying a farang soldier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harryfrompattaya Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it (Churchill) This is very good reason that America should now let China do whatever they want in the South China Sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomerangutang Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it (Churchill) This is very good reason that America should now let China do whatever they want in the South China Sea I don't get what you're saying. Do you think the US (and Philippines) should let China continue to grab territory there? I don't. I think they should be smacked down - hard. The sooner the better, because each passing week means more concrete poured, and more Chinese military put in place, along with their weapons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kondiao Posted May 10, 2015 Share Posted May 10, 2015 My country (Australia) has followed the US into many failed and dismal war zones. Mr Dean states-"it was the first time Americans came close to losing a war". You have to be joking. Good American soldiers and their allies have died on fruitless incursions. Since WW11 the US has lost every war except Panama and a small Caribbean nation. Sure, they win the battles, but they nearly always lose the war. Thankfully the US is too broke to invade another country. This comment is not meant to upset vets, especially the US marines and my Aussie former soldiers. But lets come totally clean on all this. The US policy of being the worlds policeman is totally redundant. Enuf sed. If you did not mean to "upset vets" with your comment you failed. You upset me. I was in Vietnam with the U.S.M.C. and I don't think it was a joke at all. If you want to come "totally clean" why don't you admit to historical facts like that war in Korea, whihc happened after the WWII, the UN/U.S. forces prevented the communists from taking over 1/2 of a country, as they had protected their former enemies, the Germans, from losing their whole country to the invading Russian communists after the end of WWII. And why do you not mention the First Gulf War while you are talking about the redundant U.S. policy? - I am not trying to say that that war was justifiable - I am saying that you want to pretend that the U.S. did not win that war - in 100 hours. And do you imagine that Taiwan would not be under the rule fo communist China if not for the protection of the U.S. Navy since 1949? I have no doubt the descendants of Chairman Mao will liberate Taiwan within a few years and then most people will be saying that the masses of Taiwanese refugees who flood to America will be deemed collaborators of the Americans and that the Chinese communists have proved once again that the people want to be free - from American capitalists. Does that last statement sound stupid? It sounds just that stupid to me to hear ordinary people still saying that the Vietnamese "won" their American war and are free from U.S. domination. This the conventional wisdom, the accepted opinion of most people - even you Aussies, who would now be an overseas province of the Japanese Empire, were it not for the intervention of the American navy and marines. If you are going say "enuf sed," please mention all the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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