ClareQuilty Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 A recent purchase of mine, a 1993 Civic, has suddenly begun to overheat. I had driven it many time for one hour trips around the area in 40 degree heat, without any problems, but suddenly today it overheated very quickly after start-up, after a week sitting. I immediately parked the car alongside the road for fear of damaging the engine, and will probably have it towed tomorrow, but I'm wondering if there's anything I should/could check on my own, at least to make the car drivable for the 8 kilometers to a repair shop. What would have made the car suddenly begin to overheat after 2-3 weeks of good cooling performance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Broken fan belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Broken fan belt. Don't believe '93 Civic has a fan belt but electric but check if the fan is turning. Obviously coolant/water level. The items that can't be easily checked by yourself is the thermostat and pump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFerearnk Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Strange noise YES then its the waterpump. No special noice - Thermostat In Thailand you dont need antifreeze (555) but it is VERY reconmanded to put a antirust - waterclean product in the coolwater otherways your tubes and for sure the thermostat stoks due to the rust. I think the best thing you can do is to tow the car to the shop. Ask friends, its only 8 km Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lust Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Did you check your coolant level? Your thermostat might need to be replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisH Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Strange noise YES then its the waterpump. No special noice - Thermostat In Thailand you dont need antifreeze (555) but it is VERY reconmanded to put a antirust - waterclean product in the coolwater otherways your tubes and for sure the thermostat stoks due to the rust. I think the best thing you can do is to tow the car to the shop. Ask friends, its only 8 km Well you do need 'anti-freeze' - it also increases the boiling point of the water as well as decreasing the freezing point. All cars here have it in their systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted April 19, 2015 Share Posted April 19, 2015 Broken fan belt. Don't believe '93 Civic has a fan belt but electric but check if the fan is turning. Obviously coolant/water level. The items that can't be easily checked by yourself is the thermostat and pump. This, fan first most likely the problem and I think it was a topic with this very car that thinking about replacing the timing belt was to be considered given it's age, the timing belt operates the water pump and while the timing belt seems to be still ok given that the car still runs, the pump may no longer be so if it is the water pump (but they're pretty stout in those engines) best to prepare for replacing several preventative parts you'll likely need to request because so many Thai's do things according to budget most mechanics don't even suggest them and don't even consider doing them all at the same time. Timing belt, water pump obviously, possibly timing belt tensioner and guides, I would, it's sacrificial in a sense and can break at anytime when high milage and if it does you loose tension on the belt, it skips a tooth and valve bending ensues making it far more costly and time consuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClareQuilty Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share Posted April 19, 2015 Well there was no noise associated with the mishap, so perhaps that suggests it might not be the water pump(?), and the fan is an electrical fan, so no fan belt. Timing belt is obviously fine at the moment, as the engine can run without any other problem except for the overheating. I tried starting it again later in the evening and it did absorb two large bottles of water (I poured it in slowly while the engine was running, as I believe is recommended?). It still got very hot within 2-3 kilometers, so I stopped at a gas station. Will try towing it tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFerearnk Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Strange noise YES then its the waterpump. No special noice - Thermostat In Thailand you dont need antifreeze (555) but it is VERY reconmanded to put a antirust - waterclean product in the coolwater otherways your tubes and for sure the thermostat stoks due to the rust. I think the best thing you can do is to tow the car to the shop. Ask friends, its only 8 km Well you do need 'anti-freeze' - it also increases the boiling point of the water as well as decreasing the freezing point. All cars here have it in their systems. Well, the bottle adhesiv for the coolwater (recommended by a former mecanic teacher) stand in front of me. POLYKON super cool coolant all metal protection 3 in 1 = Anti rust Anti overhead Lubricant. One bottle (400 ml) on 10 parts of water. NEVER feel up water in the car direct from the outside waterhose, use a funnel with a sieve. Maybe you have see the green algs coming out if the hose was in the sun, they stops the radiator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Well there was no noise associated with the mishap, so perhaps that suggests it might not be the water pump(?), and the fan is an electrical fan, so no fan belt. Timing belt is obviously fine at the moment, as the engine can run without any other problem except for the overheating. I tried starting it again later in the evening and it did absorb two large bottles of water (I poured it in slowly while the engine was running, as I believe is recommended?). It still got very hot within 2-3 kilometers, so I stopped at a gas station. Will try towing it tomorrow. Yes fan is electric so maybe has a faulty temp switch or relay or maybe just the fan motor is bad, start the car and get it to temp and see if the fan is turning on? It should also come on almost immediately if you turn on the a/c if you don't want to wait for it to run to temp.. As for the timing belt, if the pump needs replacing, time to do the belt. Poured the water correctly, but that recommendation is only with a hot engine not one that has cooled already, but another thing to consider is the radiator cap having failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClareQuilty Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share Posted April 20, 2015 Today got the car filled up with water from a hose, both radiator and overflow. Managed to drive almost the whole 8 kilometers home before it began to get just slightly hot - that is, not hot, just slightly above its normal operating temp. When I raised the hood at home, however, it did have a hissing noise of escaping steam or water, and I did see some water on the ground. Anyway, its now within a few hundred yards of the mechanic, so I'll just have take it in and see if they can do anything with it. The previous owner told me that this is a continuously recurring problem and he said he used to check the water level every time before driving the car - said when he kept radiator and overflow very full at all times, he had good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiBob Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 If you see water on the ground then you have probably have a leak in the cooling system. Check for cracked hoses (eventually they will burst), loose hose clamps, radiator leaks, and water directly under the water pump (on the ground) . Any competent mechanic should be able to diagnose the problem quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurwait Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 If it is only slightly overheating and not steaming like a Liverpool fan this morning then where is the water going ? Have you checked the inside of the oil filler cap ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurwait Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 If the cap is clean and you only see a small amount of water on the ground , check under the radiator for water gathered in the bodywork/chassis. Holed radiator, loose or past it bottom hose. Oh and check the radiator mounts/rubbers to see if it is moving and loosening the bottom hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurwait Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 The likelihood is (IMO) previous owners have not bothered with coolant and just put in plain water and something has rusted out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinisaan Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 (edited) Broken fan belt. Don't believe '93 Civic has a fan belt but electric but check if the fan is turning. Obviously coolant/water level. The items that can't be easily checked by yourself is the thermostat and pump. This, fan first most likely the problem and I think it was a topic with this very car that thinking about replacing the timing belt was to be considered given it's age, the timing belt operates the water pump and while the timing belt seems to be still ok given that the car still runs, the pump may no longer be so if it is the water pump (but they're pretty stout in those engines) best to prepare for replacing several preventative parts you'll likely need to request because so many Thai's do things according to budget most mechanics don't even suggest them and don't even consider doing them all at the same time. Timing belt, water pump obviously, possibly timing belt tensioner and guides, I would, it's sacrificial in a sense and can break at anytime when high milage and if it does you loose tension on the belt, it skips a tooth and valve bending ensues making it far more costly and time consuming. I'm only wondering if we've read the same post, regarding the overheating problem. What has the timing belt, etc to do with it, now? Most importantly will you have to make sure that the fan's running. No matter if it's an electric, or mechanic one. Belt okay? And once the water pump says goodbye it's leaking water, together with coolant very easy to see. The way I see it, it could be a faulty thermostat, considering that the car wasn't driven for a week, maybe a leak and no more cooling fluid? If there's enough cooling fluid, even if it's only water and the temperature goes up that high, it's your thermostat. Very easy to check. Start the engine, check the hoses attached to the radiator. .If the thermostat doesn't work, you won't have a circulation and one main hose won't get hot. If you don't know where the thermostat's situated, get a mechanic with the right part to replace it. It only takes about fifteen minutes, even for me. You might need an O-ring as well, some coolant, the usual fill op procedure. Some animals love material such as the rubber water hoses are made of, to build a nest. But that's easy to see, because you would see water disappearing. . Most of the time, you can even fix a malfunctioning thermostat, because it's mostly rost, casing it to hang, or not function. You can easily check if the water pimp's working by pressing one cooling tube together, while the engine is running. You will feel that there's pressure coming from somewhere. If you've got enough water, the water pimp's working, then you might have a faulty cylinder head gasket. But then you'd see white smoke coming out of your exhaust system. Please try it step by step, it so freaking easy to find out. Best of luck and please don't waste any money for a timing chain, tension-er, etc, if all is fine. Edited April 20, 2015 by lostinisaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktm jeff Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 RE the timing belt . If the water pump is gone , when replacing this , its also a good idea to replace the timing belt (that drives the WP ) . Preventative maintainence .Even if the pump isnt leaking , normally caused by a colapsed bearing , ive known pump impellers fail / fall off . A hissing noise suggests an external leak if it hisses at a lower temp than overheating temp . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) ^^ KTM answered the question a second time.. I answered it in my first post as per the first line in my post you quoted. Because of the water pump location behind the timing belt cover water leaking may not be visible since the water itself is not visible. If it is leaking though, which is not so common with those water pumps they just quit from inside out, it will likely be leaking from under the passengers side forward under the timing belt cover area. Hearing water/steam hissing is a pretty good sign of a failed hose somewhere or like mentioned possibly a radiator puncture hopefully and not something more serious, not so good to hear after the fact from the previous owner who I understood was a trusted work colleague that it has a water loss problem for some time, that's rather crap. Edited April 21, 2015 by WarpSpeed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavisH Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 Maybe you can do a few checks yourself. Top up the water in your driveway and run the engine. Are there any visible leaks? If the temperature shoots up, it could be the thermostat http://www.wikihow.com/Tell-if-Your-Car%27s-Thermostat-Is-Stuck-Closed For the water pump: http://www.wikihow.com/Tell-if-a-Car's-Water-Pump-Needs-Replacement There are plenty of garages that can check this easily. There are non-dealer honda garages near my place and I go there sometimes, but any garage should be able to do it. Just take a few extra litres of water with you just in case:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 If you see water on the ground then you have probably have a leak in the cooling system. Depends on what point you see the water on the ground. The AC drain produces a large amount of water after it has run for a while and then park the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 If you see water on the ground then you have probably have a leak in the cooling system. Depends on what point you see the water on the ground. The AC drain produces a large amount of water after it has run for a while and then park the car. Which is why I gave an approximate location and many/most leaks will not expel enough water to even get all the way to ground, it's not so much the water lost while idling it's the water lost through evaporation and cooling cycles, as the water begins cooling from the second the car is shut down it creates a vacuum which sucks in air to displace the water that has emptied while running, it takes a rather big leak to show any water on the ground that is usually an obvious blow out of a hose or fitting but can be generated through a worn water pump seal in some cases, but not always, usually the bearing and seal have failed by that time and the noise is more outstanding then is the water noticeable. One has to be very cautious seeking out any water leaks as the best time to locate them (another good reason to add coolant as it has a dye specifically for leak location and smell) is when they are hot and water is being forced out, that is also the most dangerous time as if it happens to explode or your feeling around it can explode in your face or on your arms and burn you so OP be very careful. FYI if anyone thinks that's a rare event just recently I was working on my VW GTI Vr6 and it has a nest of small coolant lines on the back of the head and while I was investigating another issue I had to move one of those hoses aside and the slight bit of pressure I put on it caused the fitting it was attached to suddenly burst and sprayed steaming hot water everywhere while I had to lean over the engine and was postured on top of it unable to move back quickly being, off balance to see what I was looking at. I was very fortunate that the spray towards my face was blocked by the throttle body or that would not have been a nice result, this tends to happen on older cars without warning at times which is why I'm telling about it now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinisaan Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 (edited) First, you'll have to check if you've got enough water in your system. You don not have to open the radiator cap, as all cars have a cooling water reservoir container, easily to find where the tube on top of the radiator, right next to the cap goes to. If there's enough water inside, make sure that the hose to the radiator isn't blocked, open the radiator cap, ( please only when the engine's cold !!!) If you see that there's water inside, please close all, start your engine and check if your fan is running. The water pump produces pressure, you can easily check by pressing one of the bigger hoses together, once the engine is idling. One of the bigger hoses goes to the thermostat, if everything is alright, the thermostat will open at about 60 degrees Celsius.If it opens you'll have a water circulation through both big houses, the one that goes to the thermostat and the other one that is attached to the engine. If you do have a functioning water pump and enough water, plus a functioning fan, you could have a problem with your cylinder heard gasket. Please be careful that you don't get your fingers, hands, necktie, etc..into the running fan !!! You only have to remove two 8 mm screws, sometimes nuts and you'll see the thermostat. If it didn't open, buy the same one, don't forget to put a new O-ring in as well and ut some engine oil on the O-ring. Don't tighten it up too much, start with one screw a bit, then the second.You'll see that this is one of the easiest ways to find it out and please don't think about any tensioners, or timing belt now. Please see attached photos P.S. When you take a look at the photo, where the thermostat is located, you can also see the temperature switch. It happened at my Mitsu twice that this switch was faulty and showed me a too high temperature. .. Edited April 21, 2015 by lostinisaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClareQuilty Posted April 22, 2015 Author Share Posted April 22, 2015 Hearing water/steam hissing is a pretty good sign of a failed hose somewhere or like mentioned possibly a radiator puncture hopefully and not something more serious, not so good to hear after the fact from the previous owner who I understood was a trusted work colleague that it has a water loss problem for some time, that's rather crap. Actually the car that you're remembering coming from a 'trusted colleague' was a Toyota Soluna I bought at about the same time - it has been reliable. This Civic is from a foreigner who had to leave suddenly, who offered me such a good price I couldn't refuse. Now the car has been at the mechanic's for a day or so, and he hasn't had time to really investigate it, but when I visited him to inquire about it this afternoon he said his first guess was the head gasket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jessi Posted April 22, 2015 Share Posted April 22, 2015 Now the car has been at the mechanic's for a day or so, and he hasn't had time to really investigate it, but when I visited him to inquire about it this afternoon he said his first guess was the head gasket. Head gasket.....Has the engine lost power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinisaan Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Now the car has been at the mechanic's for a day or so, and he hasn't had time to really investigate it, but when I visited him to inquire about it this afternoon he said his first guess was the head gasket. Head gasket.....Has the engine lost power? Not necessarily that the engine's loosing power, if the head gasket has an issue. A tiny cut, near the water circulation would cause white smoke coming out of the exhaust, while a little cut near the oil circulation, would cause the engine to burn oil and blue smoke would come out of the exhaust system. If a Thai mechanic would tell me that, I'd rather start laughing for a day, or so. Easy to check it in some minutes, by looking at the cooling water and some other easy checks, a good mechanic should be familiar with. Sorry, but I wouldn't leave my bicycle at this shop, if they still don't know what's wrong. After a day, or so.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClareQuilty Posted April 23, 2015 Author Share Posted April 23, 2015 They didn't have a chance to investigate yet, as I said. He said they were (as of yesterday) still very short staffed after Songkran. He said that Thai mechanics tend to take a lot of time off for Songkran. I personally haven't noticed any white or other smoke coming from the tail-pipe, but then again I am usually the one starting the car. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 Yeah Clare but as Issan says, it's really not that difficult to diagnose a head gasket, oil in the water or water in the oil, both pretty easy to tell by merely opening the oil filler cap or the radiator reservoir, water has to go somewhere? It's going one of those 2 places also if it is a head gasket if the reservoir is opened while running and there is ANY water in it after a short amount if time it is very likely to blow air back into the reservoir which normally shouldn't be happening. Good to hear this is not the same car you recently bought, I was thinking maybe you were duped on that one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywais Posted April 23, 2015 Share Posted April 23, 2015 A head gasket leak test is often done with a dye (uv or other) but not sure of the tech's abilities. Step by step guide for evaluating - http://www.ehow.com/how_5609019_properly-diagnose-bad-head-gasket.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinisaan Posted April 24, 2015 Share Posted April 24, 2015 (edited) They didn't have a chance to investigate yet, as I said. He said they were (as of yesterday) still very short staffed after Songkran. He said that Thai mechanics tend to take a lot of time off for Songkran. I personally haven't noticed any white or other smoke coming from the tail-pipe, but then again I am usually the one starting the car. We'll see. With all respect, you had plenty of very good advice, but then it seems that you brought your car to a little shaggy place. Would I have a similar problem and not knowing what's wrong, or how to check it by myself, all I'd need to do is to drive to Mitsubishi and I'd know on the same day what's wrong and how much it will cost. I could sit in an air conditioned room, with a computer, coffee, cold water and even some food and would just wait for the answer. You didn't even report if there's enough water inside, nor did you seem to understand what some people wrote. Did the engine really get that hot, or is it just a faulty thermostat, or temperature switch? Now, it's too late and your mechanic can and will give you any stories, that don't have to be true. They do seem to have a double pricing system at little garages, but usually not at a Honda shop. The way i see it, you'll have to pay for a new head gasket, even if it was only the thermostat. So linger it stays in that garage, so more you'll have to pay. I'm only wondering why you're asking for advice, but never checked what people told you to. And you were the one who's asking for. It's only a little bit confusing, as next time some knowledgeable guys might not even answer anymore. Edited April 24, 2015 by lostinisaan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClareQuilty Posted April 24, 2015 Author Share Posted April 24, 2015 As I stated, lostinisaan, the radiator was very far from full - hence my refilling it with a hose - a process which took around 15 minutes with the car idling (as I think is the recommended method). However it didn't seem to be completely empty. As for 'how hot' the engine got - it got as hot as the gauge would go. I have had fairly good luck with the 'shaggy' mechanic in question, and I don't really see any need to go to the dealer for a 22 year old Civic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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