Many Thai drivers/riders become aggressive when you overtake them. Why?

[Happy Grumpy]

This is helmet-cam footage of me going home yesterday along Phayathai.

I cannot see anything that would make the other guy aggressive.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Happy Grumpy

[Myaimistrue]

Group riders in America (where there seems to be a lot of jock-like ego issues in many riders and groups) seem to be showing off and being 'part of the pack', so to speak, which I feel is very, very different to the individual aggression being talked about as per the OP.

Oh yeah, no comparison. That was literally a gang, 10-15 of them, just going out and doing whatever they wanted to do.

[English_M_in_Bkk]

The OP is either a troll or a comic genius exposing the dumb anti-Thai attitudes through satire, hard to tell

[Myaimistrue]

I've been trying to keep an open mind about you, but I'm afraid it's closing.

Edited April 25, 2015 by seedy
troll / flaming

[English_M_in_Bkk]

Come on dude, if I see a pack of big bikes weaving through traffic, I think hell yeah, I love to see that stuff.

[Gweiloman]

My skin is plenty thick but sometimes I do get tired of the superior attitudes. It isn't just a difference in terms it is a matter of living life like you don't love it or choosing to have at least a little common sense and not endangering yourself and others with your behavior.

And again, putting people down is the last resort of losing a discussion.

The only superior attitude i have come across on this thread has been yours actually.

"have a little fun in my little Mira and raced him down the very curvy road we were on. After I punched it and passed him I slid through all of the turns"

" I am 6'2' and weigh 200 lbs"

"The older I get the less I tolerate axxholes"

"speeding, sometimes over 300 KPH; more times than you have fingers and toes to count on"

[Gweiloman]

How he is riding is not called "Filtering", it is called speeding and reckless endangerment of others on the road.

After reading your comment, I re-watched the video again. Didn't see anywhere where he "recklessly endangered" others on the road. What I saw was safe and sensible riding, with lots of shoulder checks, slowing down where there was traffic, opening up when the road was clear to remove himself from danger zones, taking the time to assess the movements of other road users before filtering etc. Visibility was good, rider was covering his brakes to deal with emergency stops if needed and of course the Duc Panigale is a highly manoeuvrable bike.

If you ever decide to get on a bike again, I would highly recommend watching and learning from this video but do make sure that you have the skills to match.

[moose7117]

what a load of <deleted> !

see i am agressive !

so i must be a dangerous rider !

[Gweiloman]

You could replace 'He' with 'The 18 people on the first few pages who also say that it is a common occurrence'.

To sedate his trolling.... the only thing I'm 'doing to people' is judging the road better than them and riding past them as they get stuck, I (35 yr old Westerner) have an aftermarket exhaust (not hooligan loud), wear a protective jacket and reflective vest, gloves, decent open face helmet and sunglasses.

About 10% of Thais on scooter and almost all Thais on similar size bikes become furious (obviously) and risk life and death to get back ahead of me, often ultra-aggressively. Then often there will be gloating. It's as if somebody has just pushed a button in them marked 'Fury. Kill.'

Actually, I don't think that there were 18 people who said it is a common occurrence. It's more like you and true aim saying the same nonsense 18 times over.

To put the argument to rest, why don't you strap a cam to your helmet / bike and show us the footage? I have seen lots of other footage on this forum and on youtube on riding in Thailand and cannot recall seeing what you described.

[Gweiloman]

what a load of <deleted> !

see i am agressive !

so i must be a dangerous rider !

Which post are you referring to moose?

[Happy Grumpy]

Actually, I don't think that there were 18 people who said it is a common occurrence. It's more like you and true aim saying the same nonsense 18 times over.

Out of interested I started on the first page and marked a tick on a notepad on my desk with everybody different who concurred with it happening. (It happening isn't up for debate, it is about why it happens).

At page 5 I couldn't be bothered continuing, so counted the ticks which numbered 18.

To put the argument to rest, why don't you strap a cam to your helmet / bike and show us the footage?

Actually something I am interested in getting for a long time, unfortunately my helmet and jacket etc. are put in my top box at the office everyday, and it's a tight squeeze to say the least (they just fit in when positioned perfectly. Add a camera.... no dice. Pity really.

[Gweiloman]

Actually, I don't think that there were 18 people who said it is a common occurrence. It's more like you and true aim saying the same nonsense 18 times over.

Out of interested I started on the first page and marked a tick on a notepad on my desk with everybody different who concurred with it happening. (It happening isn't up for debate, it is about why it happens).

At page 5 I couldn't be bothered continuing, so counted the ticks which numbered 18.

To put the argument to rest, why don't you strap a cam to your helmet / bike and show us the footage?

Actually something I am interested in getting for a long time, unfortunately my helmet and jacket etc. are put in my top box at the office everyday, and it's a tight squeeze to say the least (they just fit in when positioned perfectly. Add a camera.... no dice. Pity really.

Before you can conclude that something is happening, you first need to determine that it's happening.

As you couldn't be bothered to back up your own statements, I took the liberty of doing it for you. So far, 72 posters have responded

Yes No Irrelevant Happy Grumpy Hili Bernard Flint jacko45k eisfeld wow64 WitawatWatawit Banzai99 wantan Just1Voice kaorop RSD KamalaRider English_M_in_Bkk torrens samuibeachcomber Berkshire thehelmsman Lee4Life andrewrooney ttakata sead nikster whyamiand whatamidoinghere Dlang gweiloman ronwparker eastcanje bramds Oziex1 Myaimistrue biker Bob Dannyboy666 connda Kerryd Fullstop csabo mike324 The Usual Suspect Fookhaht neeray AlQaholic johnsell50 JonnyF loong slipperylobster jdinasia Johnny S smedly englansi laislica robblok lvr181 santo78 bbbbooboo djayz Wat dee wantan Benmart Travelman868 Pete Beale Shurup Moonlover Dutchbike MartinBangkok MilesofSmiles manarak balo mark131v watcharacters moose7117

Of these, 17 have observed what you have and 23 have not. The remaining 31 have merely commented without stating clearly one way or the other. Of the 23, I know for a fact that many of them are actual riders, either having ridden with them or meet up with them. Of the 17, I know of some who are riders but some who don't ride (in Thailand, by their own admission).

With regards to a helmet cam, surely do must realise that the cam can be detached from the helmet? Duh.....

[wantan]

Before you can conclude that something is happening, you first need to determine that it's happening.

As you couldn't be bothered to back up your own statements, I took the liberty of doing it for you. So far, 72 posters have responded

Yes No Irrelevant Happy Grumpy Hili Bernard Flint jacko45k eisfeld wow64 WitawatWatawit Banzai99 wantan Just1Voice kaorop RSD KamalaRider English_M_in_Bkk torrens samuibeachcomber Berkshire thehelmsman Lee4Life andrewrooney ttakata sead nikster whyamiand whatamidoinghere Dlang gweiloman ronwparker eastcanje bramds Oziex1 Myaimistrue biker Bob Dannyboy666 connda Kerryd Fullstop csabo mike324 The Usual Suspect Fookhaht neeray AlQaholic johnsell50 JonnyF loong slipperylobster jdinasia Johnny S smedly englansi laislica robblok lvr181 santo78 bbbbooboo djayz Wat dee wantan Benmart Travelman868 Pete Beale Shurup Moonlover Dutchbike MartinBangkok MilesofSmiles manarak balo mark131v watcharacters moose7117

Of these, 17 have observed what you have and 23 have not. The remaining 31 have merely commented without stating clearly one way or the other. Of the 23, I know for a fact that many of them are actual riders, either having ridden with them or meet up with them. Of the 17, I know of some who are riders but some who don't ride (in Thailand, by their own admission).

With regards to a helmet cam, surely do must realise that the cam can be detached from the helmet? Duh.....

Wow, looks like you needed a lot of time for this analysis. I dont think that it is of any use. There are many people who do not write so much about their riding, others write a lot about it. And what is a "actual rider"? Nearly everyone in thailand sometimes rides a scooter and can post his/hers opinion. For me every opinion counts, not only those who ride big bikes or who like to talk a lot about their riding.

Btw, good idea to use a camera. I would be interested to see some footage too. I usually focus on the street while city riding and try to ignore everything that is not important for my safety. Not sure i am one of the 17 or 23 or 31.

[seedy]

Troll / Flaming posts removed.

Thread seems to be veering into Abusive Territory. Stop the Personal attacks and post relevant to the OP's title please

[johnsell50]

The only superior attitude i have come across on this thread has been yours actually.

After reading your comment, I re-watched the video again. Didn't see anywhere where he "recklessly endangered" others on the road. What I saw was safe and sensible riding, with lots of shoulder checks, slowing down where there was traffic, opening up when the road was clear to remove himself from danger zones, taking the time to assess the movements of other road users before filtering etc. Visibility was good, rider was covering his brakes to deal with emergency stops if needed and of course the Duc Panigale is a highly

manoeuvrable bike.

If you ever decide to get on a bike again, I would highly recommend watching and learning from this video but do make sure that you have the skills to match.

All of the above makes me understand the real problem, it is your rose colored glasses, like in the song you only see what you want. Now that is really called "Filtering"! You have never seen me ride, so you have no idea if I am good, bad, or indifferent. Therefore you have no valid opinion to offer.As long as there are riders like this out there I will be very happy not to be on one. It is marginally safer in my pick-up, at least the crazies won't kill me, at most only a few dents in it.

[English_M_in_Bkk]

Yeah, come on Happy Grumpy I want to see footage! And no lame excuses of the camera wont fit in the top box, either take it off or take your helmet in to the office. You can do it, we want to see the evidence

[Myaimistrue]

You could replace 'He' with 'The 18 people on the first few pages who also say that it is a common occurrence'.

To sedate his trolling.... the only thing I'm 'doing to people' is judging the road better than them and riding past them as they get stuck, I (35 yr old Westerner) have an aftermarket exhaust (not hooligan loud), wear a protective jacket and reflective vest, gloves, decent open face helmet and sunglasses.

About 10% of Thais on scooter and almost all Thais on similar size bikes become furious (obviously) and risk life and death to get back ahead of me, often ultra-aggressively. Then often there will be gloating. It's as if somebody has just pushed a button in them marked 'Fury. Kill.'

Actually, I don't think that there were 18 people who said it is a common occurrence. It's more like you and true aim saying the same nonsense 18 times over.

To put the argument to rest, why don't you strap a cam to your helmet / bike and show us the footage? I have seen lots of other footage on this forum and on youtube on riding in Thailand and cannot recall seeing what you described.

Surely there are other threads that you could go and have your fun on, aren't there? You disagree, you don't see it, fine. Why not leave the thread so that those who do see it can discuss why they think it occurs? If you want to show off your riding style and red motorcycle, why not start a thread called, "Look How Good A Rider I Am On My Red Motorcycle!" Some of us, I would hope most of us, are not interested.

[moose7117]

well admittedly i have not read every bloody post over the last 12 pages but i sorta started at the front then just read a few "highlights" , from what i am gathering we have some people saying thai's motorcyclists/scooterists get aggressive, wave their feet about etc. if you overtake them.

and another group saying it just doesn't happen.

i have never seen this sort of thing but i hardly ever ride in Bangkok, preferring to stick to the countryside where all i get is people who when coming towards me do not see me and are willing to overtake another car and push me onto the verge.

i don't see this as being aggressive, i just think that the average thai male is so completely self centred that he is doing nothing wrong in his eyes and it is up to me to move or die.

oops i digress, just because i aint seen this unusual behaviour from a thai motorcyclist/scooterist does not mean it never happens and i personally would love to see footage of this in action. maybe it is some sort of victory dance ?

if they are wiggling their bottom at you maybe its a hot day and the like the cool breeze on their nether regions ?

but i am sure not only thai's get aggressive when they get overtaken , i personally take it as an affront to my manhood and immediately have to overtake them , which can be a problem when out on the fino,

so cameras are cheap as chips these days so how about either renting or buying one and filming these antics just to shut up the doubters, i believe you whole heartedly as i have had many a bottom and a leg shaken at me whilst riding around in pattaya, by girls as well as boys.

[Myaimistrue]

well admittedly i have not read every bloody post over the last 12 pages but i sorta started at the front then just read a few "highlights" , from what i am gathering we have some people saying thai's motorcyclists/scooterists get aggressive, wave their feet about etc. if you overtake them.

and another group saying it just doesn't happen.

i have never seen this sort of thing but i hardly ever ride in Bangkok, preferring to stick to the countryside where all i get is people who when coming towards me do not see me and are willing to overtake another car and push me onto the verge.

i don't see this as being aggressive, i just think that the average thai male is so completely self centred that he is doing nothing wrong in his eyes and it is up to me to move or die.

oops i digress, just because i aint seen this unusual behaviour from a thai motorcyclist/scooterist does not mean it never happens and i personally would love to see footage of this in action. maybe it is some sort of victory dance ?

if they are wiggling their bottom at you maybe its a hot day and the like the cool breeze on their nether regions ?

but i am sure not only thai's get aggressive when they get overtaken , i personally take it as an affront to my manhood and immediately have to overtake them , which can be a problem when out on the fino,

so cameras are cheap as chips these days so how about either renting or buying one and filming these antics just to shut up the doubters, i believe you whole heartedly as i have had many a bottom and a leg shaken at me whilst riding around in pattaya, by girls as well as boys.

Thank you for getting us back on track! I recall another thread a couple of years ago on the CBR250 forum that Wantan participates in too, maybe you remember it? A poster described an incident where a Thai got the jump on him at a light and did a little leg kick, only to kick the car next to him and go down. The poster kept on going, thinking, "good for him," but others thought he should have stopped to help and gave him crap for it. Then others said no, never stop unless you are involved, because as a Farang, you will be blamed and have to pay. I haven't found it yet, but in looking for it, I found a couple of other interesting posts, this one on how the leg kick got started:

I am not an ATM

Advanced Members 1,022 posts

Posted 2011-10-24 15:20:33

Made me wonder too so I found and copied this from another site.

Seems like the most logical explanation.

To answer the question of how the leg wave started, and find out the underlying reason, we need to go back in history to find its first appearance. A quick survey of paddock opinion says that the first time that anyone - including long-time veterans - remembers seeing that now legendary leg wave was at Jerez in 2005, in the last-gasp, last-corner move in which Rossi jammed his Yamaha M1 up the inside of Sete Gibernau's Gresini Honda, barely in control, and Gibernau tried to close the door too late. That move ended up defining the 2005 World Championship, and put Rossi at a psychological advantage over title rival Gibernau which saw him clinch the title with relative ease by the end of the season.

The move at that time was born out of a combination of desperation, determination and a feeling that he had nothing left to lose. It worked - both the pass and the leg wave - and Rossi associated that waving of the leg with the success of that pass. Like all things that Rossi associates with success - the color yellow, the ritual of supplication he performs before getting on the bike, the frankly unsightly picking at his leathers as he rides out of pit lane - he has elaborated on the leg wave and further incorporated it into his routine, seeing it as another weapon in his arsenal of luck, helping to sway the odds in his favor.

Over the years, the leg waving has become more prominent, almost theatrical, Rossi's leg describing circles before he places it back on the footpeg. And that increase in theatricality betrays the way that Rossi views the leg wave: It is becoming less and less a physical act and more and more something entirely psychological, almost religious. It has become a totem, a symbol of his intentions and a petition to the gods of overtaking to help him get past the upstart who has been foolish enough to get ahead of him. It has become part of Rossi's mojo.

And this one on it happening in Thailand:

Super Member

1,397 posts

Posted 2011-10-24 15:43:42

I like the Thai version.

The lights are red, the heat shimmering off the clear raceway in front of you, the tension's building, the 1974 Honda Wave next to you is smoking, the rider twitching in energetic anticipation as he checks out your machine among the revs of his 110cc beast, hands and feet nervously unsteady, then before the light hits green he's off, redlining at 6000rpm, body in full tuck, the smoke clears as everyone else waves it away from their faces, he's 20 meters in front of everyone, no one along side him, the victor, he isn't only going to humiliate you through victory, but embarrass you through gloating, the leg comes out, it announcing his great victory via a few flicks of the foot and waves of the knee, clearly the better rider has won. rolleyes.gif.pagespeed.ce.hZ59UWKk-sM0yI

And I was only going down to the seven to buy some milk.

Hopefully this will stop the, "It doesn't happen because I don't see it," "You must not ride, or at least not ride correctly, if you do see it," and "If you see it, I'm a better rider than you, because I don't," posts!

[wantan]

Thanks Myaimistrue. This is a great piece of TV history you found, written by our beloved Hehehoho:

I like the Thai version.

The lights are red, the heat shimmering off the clear raceway in front of you, the tension's building, the 1974 Honda Wave next to you is smoking, the rider twitching in energetic anticipation as he checks out your machine among the revs of his 110cc beast, hands and feet nervously unsteady, then before the light hits green he's off, redlining at 6000rpm, body in full tuck, the smoke clears as everyone else waves it away from their faces, he's 20 meters in front of everyone, no one along side him, the victor, he isn't only going to humiliate you through victory, but embarrass you through gloating, the leg comes out, it announcing his great victory via a few flicks of the foot and waves of the knee, clearly the better rider has won.

And I was only going down to the seven to buy some milk.

Classic

Edited April 26, 2015 by wantan

[Shurup]

Thanks Myaimistrue. This is a great piece of TV history you found, written by our beloved Hehehoho:

I like the Thai version.

The lights are red, the heat shimmering off the clear raceway in front of you, the tension's building, the 1974 Honda Wave next to you is smoking, the rider twitching in energetic anticipation as he checks out your machine among the revs of his 110cc beast, hands and feet nervously unsteady, then before the light hits green he's off, redlining at 6000rpm, body in full tuck, the smoke clears as everyone else waves it away from their faces, he's 20 meters in front of everyone, no one along side him, the victor, he isn't only going to humiliate you through victory, but embarrass you through gloating, the leg comes out, it announcing his great victory via a few flicks of the foot and waves of the knee, clearly the better rider has won.

And I was only going down to the seven to buy some milk.

Classic

Not really what the OP is about, is it? The OP is "Thais become aggressive when you overtake them".

When someone tries to beat you off the stop light is totally different and quite common occurrence.

[wantan]

^

No, its not really what the OP is about. But hopefully having some fun is still allowed. Dont be too serious, rider

[smedly]

Thanks Myaimistrue. This is a great piece of TV history you found, written by our beloved Hehehoho:

I like the Thai version.

The lights are red, the heat shimmering off the clear raceway in front of you, the tension's building, the 1974 Honda Wave next to you is smoking, the rider twitching in energetic anticipation as he checks out your machine among the revs of his 110cc beast, hands and feet nervously unsteady, then before the light hits green he's off, redlining at 6000rpm, body in full tuck, the smoke clears as everyone else waves it away from their faces, he's 20 meters in front of everyone, no one along side him, the victor, he isn't only going to humiliate you through victory, but embarrass you through gloating, the leg comes out, it announcing his great victory via a few flicks of the foot and waves of the knee, clearly the better rider has won.

And I was only going down to the seven to buy some milk.

Classic

Not really what the OP is about, is it? The OP is "Thais become aggressive when you overtake them".

When someone tries to beat you off the stop light is totally different and quite common occurrence.

Racing off a stop light will get you killed in Thailand, No 1 rule - never be first, too many vehicles especially large ones run reds

[Happy Grumpy]

The lights are red, the heat shimmering off the clear raceway in front of you, the tension's building, the 1974 Honda Wave next to you is smoking, the rider twitching in energetic anticipation as he checks out your machine among the revs of his 110cc beast, hands and feet nervously unsteady, then before the light hits green he's off, redlining at 6000rpm, body in full tuck, the smoke clears as everyone else waves it away from their faces, he's 20 meters in front of everyone, no one along side him, the victor, he isn't only going to humiliate you through victory, but embarrass you through gloating, the leg comes out, it announcing his great victory via a few flicks of the foot and waves of the knee, clearly the better rider has won. rolleyes.gif.pagespeed.ce.hZ59UWKk-sM0yI

And I was only going down to the seven to buy some milk.

That's classic.

[Happy Grumpy]

When someone tries to beat you off the stop light is totally different and quite common occurrence.

How do they often react when you cruise past them, at a speed that is catchable (faster than the speed of traffic, but not hammering it like an untrained, racing lunatic while riding dangerously to 'get away from them') ?

Edited April 26, 2015 by Happy Grumpy

[Happy Grumpy]

Thanks Myaimistrue. This is a great piece of TV history you found, written by our beloved Hehehoho:

I like the Thai version.

The lights are red, the heat shimmering off the clear raceway in front of you, the tension's building, the 1974 Honda Wave next to you is smoking, the rider twitching in energetic anticipation as he checks out your machine among the revs of his 110cc beast, hands and feet nervously unsteady, then before the light hits green he's off, redlining at 6000rpm, body in full tuck, the smoke clears as everyone else waves it away from their faces, he's 20 meters in front of everyone, no one along side him, the victor, he isn't only going to humiliate you through victory, but embarrass you through gloating, the leg comes out, it announcing his great victory via a few flicks of the foot and waves of the knee, clearly the better rider has won.

And I was only going down to the seven to buy some milk.

Classic

Not really what the OP is about, is it? The OP is "Thais become aggressive when you overtake them".

When someone tries to beat you off the stop light is totally different and quite common occurrence.

Racing off a stop light will get you killed in Thailand, No 1 rule - never be first, too many vehicles especially large ones run reds

Adhering to your Sig is probably best: Do not argue with a fool. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience.

Shurup is trolling.

[Myaimistrue]

Thanks Myaimistrue. This is a great piece of TV history you found, written by our beloved Hehehoho:

I like the Thai version.

The lights are red, the heat shimmering off the clear raceway in front of you, the tension's building, the 1974 Honda Wave next to you is smoking, the rider twitching in energetic anticipation as he checks out your machine among the revs of his 110cc beast, hands and feet nervously unsteady, then before the light hits green he's off, redlining at 6000rpm, body in full tuck, the smoke clears as everyone else waves it away from their faces, he's 20 meters in front of everyone, no one along side him, the victor, he isn't only going to humiliate you through victory, but embarrass you through gloating, the leg comes out, it announcing his great victory via a few flicks of the foot and waves of the knee, clearly the better rider has won.

And I was only going down to the seven to buy some milk.

Classic

Do you recall the other incident of the leg kick and accident, and who would have posted it? I'd love to find that one!

[Happy Grumpy]

Thanks Myaimistrue. This is a great piece of TV history you found, written by our beloved Hehehoho:

Haha, read the next two posts:

"your 7/11 has milk in stock...wow your lucky"

"No, he got in before me and took the last bottle.

Leg kicking as he left the store with a laugh."

[Happy Grumpy]

Thanks Myaimistrue. This is a great piece of TV history you found, written by our beloved Hehehoho:

I like the Thai version.

The lights are red, the heat shimmering off the clear raceway in front of you, the tension's building, the 1974 Honda Wave next to you is smoking, the rider twitching in energetic anticipation as he checks out your machine among the revs of his 110cc beast, hands and feet nervously unsteady, then before the light hits green he's off, redlining at 6000rpm, body in full tuck, the smoke clears as everyone else waves it away from their faces, he's 20 meters in front of everyone, no one along side him, the victor, he isn't only going to humiliate you through victory, but embarrass you through gloating, the leg comes out, it announcing his great victory via a few flicks of the foot and waves of the knee, clearly the better rider has won.

And I was only going down to the seven to buy some milk.

Classic

Do you recall the other incident of the leg kick and accident, and who would have posted it? I'd love to find that one!

Remember that there is no denying it (only the trolls trying to derail the thread for whatever reasons).

[Shurup]

Racing off a stop light will get you killed in Thailand, No 1 rule - never be first, too many vehicles especially large ones run reds

I'm not a slow rider but I ride defensively. I never race off the lights before making sure the road is clear and if someone wants to beat me off the lights they're welcome to.