Maize and Rotational Crops

[kickstart]

Just rain,rain and more rain here.

Hi FJ

It started to rain on Tuesday lunch time here , and it has been heavy showers the whole time since then ,until this evening ,constant rain for 3 hours .

Call it nature catching up with it self, our neighbour drilled some maize seed 2 weeks ago .one small patch direct drilled ,with all this rain ,Rip-Roy Lao,

it is now water logged ,and an ex ,crop of maize ,but on the whole in this area, crops look well.

[farmerjo]

Just rain,rain and more rain here.

Hi FJ

It started to rain on Tuesday lunch time here , and it has been heavy showers the whole time since then ,until this evening ,constant rain for 3 hours .

Call it nature catching up with it self, our neighbour drilled some maize seed 2 weeks ago .one small patch direct drilled ,with all this rain ,Rip-Roy Lao,

it is now water logged ,and an ex ,crop of maize ,but on the whole in this area, crops look well.

Hi KS,

40mm yesterday and overnight here.

My corn on higher land is hanging in at this stage.

Lovely soaking rains,should be good when time to plant the sunflowers which will be put off to 1st-2nd week of october if the rain continues.

[wayned]

The weigh station officially opened as it was blessed by 7 monks this morning. No change in previous pictures as the large digital display was finally mounted inside the tinted windows. We still haven't bought any corn but the local crops are doing well.

The price is down at the mill to 8.3 baht/ kilo, 14% moisture, which means we would buy it for 6.2 baht/kilo at 30% if there was any to buy.

Finishing up installing a new set of rasp bars on the 9500 so that it's ready to go when the corn is done. I6500 baht/set in the US but couldn't get them shipped air freight for less than 14400 baht, total 30900. The Thais found a set somewhere in Thailand for 27000 baht and made a two day family outing and picked them up.

I spent a couple of hours this early morning, 0100 - 0300, with FIL rounding up some of his freakin chickens that had roosted in a low area that flooded last night due to the rain. Baby chicks don't swim well. Oh what fun wading through the muck with an intermittent flash light strapped your head.

[farmerjo]

Congratulations on the opening of your Co-op Wayned.

The Albatross may soon turn into a Donald ducks Uncle

[kickstart]

The weigh station officially opened as it was blessed by 7 monks this morning. No change in previous pictures as the large digital display was finally mounted inside the tinted windows. We still haven't bought any corn but the local crops are doing well.

The price is down at the mill to 8.3 baht/ kilo, 14% moisture, which means we would buy it for 6.2 baht/kilo at 30% if there was any to buy.

Finishing up installing a new set of rasp bars on the 9500 so that it's ready to go when the corn is done. I6500 baht/set in the US but couldn't get them shipped air freight for less than 14400 baht, total 30900. The Thais found a set somewhere in Thailand for 27000 baht and made a two day family outing and picked them up.

I spent a couple of hours this early morning, 0100 - 0300, with FIL rounding up some of his freakin chickens that had roosted in a low area that flooded last night due to the rain. Baby chicks don't swim well. Oh what fun wading through the muck with an intermittent flash light strapped your head.

6.2 Bart /kg for maize grain that would make it about 4,50 Bart/kg for the grain still on the cob ,as most farmers round here send they crops grain still on the cob ,that is not a very good price farmers will not be making a lot on that .

The mill that buys the grain is it a CP or Betagro by any chance ?, in a year with not a lot of maize about ,the mills are not paying a lot ,would have thought supply and demand would have cut in ,a higher price for ,not a lot a lot of grain .

We have a big Betagro mill near us ,they produce a good few thousand ton of livestock feed per month ( going to open a pet food mill soon ),I drive past and they is queue of trucks ,waiting to tip their loads , most of it is imported feedstuffs ,trucks coming up from the port in Bangkok .

I wonder, what per cent of feed raw ingredients are produced in Thailand ,would have said cassava 100% , maize ,would not have a guess , Betagro has a lot grain silos ,and a large storage capacity, I would say, buy in cheap ,when it is produced , and store it for when required .

This year a lot of farmers have not grown maize as a second crop ,they are growing mung beans, and the crops look well ,more farmers are now combing their crops ,the picking days are on the way out.

[farmerjo]

Hi Guys,

We decided to give the thread title a little tweek.

As its being discovered a lot of people will not plant maize on maize but instead plant a rotational crop like sunflowers or soya beans.

Rotational crops benefit in many different ways.

So feel free to talk about them without feeling its off topic.

Maize/corn is still the primary subject.

[farmerjo]

A picture of my ordinary maize planted 3 days after 17mm rain on the 25th august,since its been in we have had 199mm of rain.

Quite surprised its made it this far.

No expectations for this crop.This has been one messed up year,looking at my rainfall chart this crop should have been planted in the 3rd week of july but due to a late break in april the 1st crop was not mature to harvest at that time it didn't happen till late.Excited about the amount of mulch build up that will hopefully turn into organic matter.

[kickstart]

You are having a crap time of it FJ,I was driving down a soi yesterday the maize crops where some of the best I have seen in a very long while, a lot now have a very healthy looking cobs on them ,only problem is if it is still wet end of next month harvest is going to be difficult ,last year some crops where harvested in the wet by the time they got the crop out of the field ,the field looked like a bomb site ,full of ruts ,does not do the soil structure a lot of good .

A lot of these fields are on dirt soi's ,in the sticks ,and half the field ends up on the road,which never gets cleaned up ,yours truly come down the road ,at dusk on his motorbike ,like playing dodgems.

How about , spraying off maize and plant some sunflowers ,what wayned was saying about the price of grain maize his co-op was paying ,with cost of fertilizer ,harvest costs ,not going to be a lot of a profit , money from the sunflowers should cover the cost ,of the maize seed and drilling costs ,at least .

That mulch does look good ,I would be tempted to use a 7 disc plough and bury it a few inches ,where it will do some good ,help open the land ,let it breath get some microbes working, if left on the surface it will dry out when the cool season winds come, you would lose a lot of the organic benefits .

We are trying to make some grass silage ,using Napier grass ,all that rain last week has flattened a lot, it now laying on the ground with the leaves trying to grow up wards ,giving us a banana shaped plant, 2 meters long ,all in a tangled mess, we are cutting the top half and throwing away the steamy stalk ,no feed vale in it anyway ,we had this problem 3 years ago ,not as bad as this year , and we left the chopped storks in the field as a mulch ,I would say only 50 % made mulch, the rest just dry out ,and was still there 4 months later , may have kept a few weeds at bay ,not a lot else .

[farmerjo]

Hi KS,

Think i will spray it out.The crap time of it comes with changing farming systems to no-till.

Got a quote for 40 ton of gypsum yesterday.

Sometimes its challenging trying to explain to the better half why i spend money on certain things for the farm.

She thinks i should spend the money on cow manure,not gypsum,i said i need that too.

I need the gypsum to adjust PH and stop the waterlogging.The manure for organic matter and then i might be able to grow a decent crop

Quote from Saraburi,130 baht for 50 kg bag delivered..

My brother in Australia pays for

gypsum $18/ton

lime $7.50/ton

dolomite $25

with freight around $12-15/ton.

That is in bulk from the mine.

My contact could only get me bags but they will be more user friendly as i can place them the correct distance apart in paddock before spreading by hand.

[BSJ]

40 ton of gypsum spread by hand........OMG!

[farmerjo]

40 ton of gypsum spread by hand........OMG!

When the bags are placed in position,it will look like the pinnacles in western australia.

I'll be nowhere to be seen.

[kickstart]

Hi FJ

I was thinking the same thing myself 40 ton to spread by hand,you need that small disc spreader I posted over in the manure spreader thread , that would soon get the job done .

It is a small world ,where you brought your gypsum is only 40 km from me ,will make a note .

Now you have brought it and about to spread it ,will it do any good ,a lot has been wrote about gypsum on TV ,but I think I am a minority of one , I have my doubts ,can not see how spreading gypsum will prevent water logging it may work in your country, but here in Thailand ,test of time will tell ,if I think the problem is under ground ,below where the gypsum will reach . you said there is some rock down there ,that does not help ,still say , you need some tines down they in the dry season ,brake it all up .

Yours Regs.

KS .

[farmerjo]

Hi KS,

Haven't bought the gypsum yet,thats just a quote a old work mate here got for me and thought i'd share it for the benefit if people were considering doing a reasonable area.

But will go ahead with it,i think it can work in my situation.My soil can take generally about 25-30inches of rainfall before coming waterlogged.(thats with no tillage to the land)Our annual rainfall is between 40-60inches.I believe the gypsum will bind the clay particles together to allow better soil structure enabling water to pass down through it.It will also lower my PH.

The deepest i will be abe to deep rip will be about a foot with my implement,i will try a bit of flatter land.

My land is undulating,i put the mess i'm in down to growing high volume crops like sugar cane,not putting back enough nutrients from what was coming out and mainly erosion of the topsoil from ploughing year after year.

Its just another part in the puzzle.

I dont expect results over night and have got a few years left in me to see it through.Little things like the mulch grown to suppress weeds is a little win and encouraging.

Whats the price of cow manure per bag these days and what rates are people using..

[farmerjo]

This will be a classic of soil degradation,the land behind my rice was new land cleared last year and planted to cassava,this year to sugar.

By the time the sugar cycle will have finished my neighbour will have ripped every bit of goodness out of the soil.then i expect it will be turned to rice paddy.

[kickstart]

Hi FJ

Re Kee-Whoa, Manure.

The way Thais rear cattle is like the way in the USA ,cows in the yard all the time and feed brought to them ,but the Thai way does not work ,this time of year ,and after all that rain ,cows are wallowing in a foot of mud and crap ,give all sort's of problems ,mastitis and foot problems .

Most dairy farms are on farms that have only 1-3 rie,so no land to spread the manure ,some have land ,but grow crops ,still leaving the cows in the yards ,most have no equipment for loading or spreading manure .

So it all gets sold ,over past 2 years it has become an industry ,some farmers bag it them self's ,most get a gang in to bag it up ,a bag is the 30 kg pig /fish feed sacks ,you can get about 15 -17 kg of manure in a sack ,then they are stitch up ,like a rice sack., then they are put beside the road waiting for a buyer .

For you arable boys, you need to wait until end of January and in to February ,for it all to dry out ,"The manure season " goes on until the rains come and the yards turn back to mud , June ,July?

The buyer comes with a 10 wheel truck and trailer ,a couple of lads too load the bags ,all buy hand ,when they are full away they go ,some go as far as Chiang Mai ,a lot go up in to Isan ,who the main end users are I am not certain ,a lot use to go to small holdings , I think there must be some big buyers ,who will buy a load, and some where in the line must be , a local contact man.

The going rate farmers sell a bag of manure is 17 Bart/bag ,how many bags on a trailer ,not certain ,would say about 500 , that would be 8500 Bart ,haulage cost is the big factor, and the buyers mark up ,as I said your quote for gypsum ,is close to me ,so if you take that haulage cost ,as a guide, you would not be far off ,unless your gypsum was being hauled by a 18 wheeled artic truck , haulage cost would be more.

How much to use ,I have said I am putting on a small trailer load of manure about 800 kg,once a month on my Napier grass, 2 rie ,now we have had some rain the grass is growing well ,all references I have read on Napier grass ,say it likes nitrogen fertilizer ,needing 300 units a year ,so far this year I have applied about 150 units ,as I said it is growing well now, got at least 2 good loads of manure to apply ,buy too wet ,I hope not have to apply any more N ,so you can say manure has saved me 50% on N. ,and hope to get one more cut ,this year .

In the uk the figure was 10 ton /acre ,but that was manure that was about 70% water ,try to lift a large folk load ,of wet manure was hard work ,here in Thailand .the manure is dry ,at a guess I would say ,only 20 % moisture ,manure from March/April I would say ,you could apply at a rate of 2/ ton acre, or 800 kg/rie.

Get the new year out of the way ,I will try and find some contact numbers ,of the buyers.

Some one going to write about weed seeds in manure,my problem is gratin seeds ,they grow well ,but I have had a grass weed problem for some time ,it has not got any worse since I have been applying manure ,nor has any new weeds arrive on the seen .

[thoongfoned]

hi, have been reading here for some time, interesting topics.........

wife has a pig farm 250 ish sows. sells the poo pre baged 40 baht a bag. dry poo ect... always has a Q on the poo. some guys travel 160 ish km to us then back again, they mainly have loads of sugar, rubber land ect. one guy is always trying to buy the whole years worth of poo in advance, wife will not sell this way, but i know of some other farms that sell it this way. mad deemand for the stuff. wife even sells for some other farms in are area as we cannot produce enough.

that napier grass is takinh off around here, local government offices have been advising farmers like my wife to grow this for some time. again can pre sell it all if in good condition ect. have been to a friends pig farm (same size wifes farm) he pumps all his waste water onto his napier grass (not sure what type) it grows like mad, he cuts every 90 ish days, its only about 2.5 metres tall at this age put he says he likes to sell at this age, better money ect... he is taking all his sugar out this year and moving into the grass on about 80 rai extra, not sure how he gonna flood all that but he says its a lot better money than the sugar.

i keep joking that the wife need to do another pig farm just for the poo sales........

have been putting about 30 bags of poo on one rai ofrubber trees for years now, can see the difference in the leaf colour from trees that have not had the poo.

[kickstart]

Round here we have a lot of poultry farms ,Cargill are a big player ,plus smaller independent farms ,there was, so I have been told 3 million plus chickens in the area, and that is also a lot of poultry manure ,over the past 2-3 years ,since the growth in sugarcane poultry manure has become popular .

If you look at analyse of all the manure's poultry manure has the highest amount of nitrogen , P and K If I remember are about the same. also being high in N it soon gets used up buy the plants quickly ,we use to say in the UK spreading cow manure on land ,depending on the crop it could last 2 years ,here with cane and cassava being heavy nutrient use I would say 1 year ? .

It may be good stuff but expensive , a load on a 10 wheeled truck ,delivered locally with local manure ,was last year 10 000 Bart , sugarcane growers are the main buyers ,have seen some maize growers using it ,but the costs make a big hole in the maize profits ,when it is delivered it has to be spread ,that last year, was 200 Bart/load .

My neighbour use to grow cucumbers ,he brought a 6 wheeled truck load ,4 000 Bart ,to much for him so we brought, half the load ,I left it for a few weeks ,then I spread ,it was more than 50% rice husks ,not a lot of manure .

At the time step grand daughter was going with a guy ,who had a haulage business ,hauling rice husks, bedding for poultry in the sheds ,he said some sellers of poultry manure ,mix rice husks ,with the manure bulk it out ,make more money, rice husks being cheap .

So if you do buy any poultry manure beware .

[joeuk1]

I would like to buy three tonne of maize will collect up to 100 km province of surin ok . Pm if you have available . Thanx

[farmerjo]

Went ahead and purchased my gypsum today after many hours of reading about no-till farming.

Arrives on the 2nd october.

For my sunflowers to be planted i was thinking of putting gypsum in the furrow with the seed and spraying on liquid fertilizer with the chemical knockdown prior.

[wayned]

Corn's looking good. The cobs have formed and are filing out. It's over 2 meters tall in the middle of the field. It hasn't rained for 7 days and two nights of good soaking rain over the next two weeks will make or break it.

[BSJ]

Bloody rain is causing problems around these parts! We only have a small test batch of corn....Pacific 111 which doesn't taste to bad....or too good but the mystery batch next to it gets flooded every night the last 3 nights! And the mango orchard has become swamp central!

[farmerjo]

Corn's looking good. The cobs have formed and are filing out. It's over 2 meters tall in the middle of the field. It hasn't rained for 7 days and two nights of good soaking rain over the next two weeks will make or break it.

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[farmerjo]

No internet at home so trying to use my phone.

Corns looking Wayned hope you get the extra rain to fill it out.You might owe the BIL a bottle of hong thong.

BSJ its that time of year where the late rain is making up for the slow start.

Ive got 800 bags of gypsum coming friday and a wife thats not talking.

Will be doing the rounds tomorrow looking for helpers.

I guess farming wasnt meant to br easy.

[kickstart]

No internet at home so trying to use my phone.

Corns looking Wayned hope you get the extra rain to fill it out.You might owe the BIL a bottle of hong thong.

BSJ its that time of year where the late rain is making up for the slow start.

Ive got 800 bags of gypsum coming friday and a wife thats not talking.

Will be doing the rounds tomorrow looking for helpers.

I guess farming wasnt meant to br easy.

Hi FJ,

October 2ed...........just looking at my diary..........................just remembered, burying the grandmother (again),so not available to help unload your gypsum .

I remember as a 20 year old unloading 15 ton of sugar beet pulp ,cattle feed ,40 kg sacks ,4 of us ,a good few hours ,and a sore shoulder .

I would wait until the sunflowers are done and apply the gypsum, the sunflower stubble and the gypsum should do the land some good .

We only grew sunflowers once ,after a crop of maize , the field was very weedy ,grass weed , so we sprayed round up ,then we sowed the sunflowers I would say only 15% grew the misses and a few others said it was residue from the round up , how long from spraying round up to planting sunflowers I can not remember ,must have been 2-3 weeks , would have thought that would have been long enough ,so have a look at some glyphosate tables ,spraying to drilling/planting time .

Round here very few farmers apply fertilizer to sunflowers ,,and they still get a crop ,at the end of our soi is 70 ria of sesame seed ,looking well ,full of pods ,that field has not had any fertilizer .it is sand land to ,but the land is rented ,for the past 4 years ,so far they have not made any profit ,originally rented for sugar cane ,that failed no rain tried cassava only half a crop ,now sesame seed ,at a guess not the money for fertilizer ,but they are big sugar growers the other end of town .

[loong]

I remember as a 20 year old unloading 15 ton of sugar beet pulp ,cattle feed ,40 kg sacks ,4 of us ,a good few hours ,and a sore shoulder .

I remember as a 19 year old, working on a building site. Had to unload the trucks delivering 1cwt bags of cement. The other blokes unloading stripped off most of their gear and put their folded T shirts on their shoulders. This was my first time and I didn't know what to expect, I thought that they were crazy as it was the middle of winter in the UK. I soon found out why as the driver and his mate plonked 2 bags on our shoulders and we had to carry it through mud to the storage shed. The first lot was murder, but as the bags from the outside were taken, the bags in the middle were red hot! That was the first time that I really thought that I was going to die, my legs buckling under the weight and shoulder burning from the heat of the cement. My jeans, soaking wet from the sweat were rubbing where you would only want Jean's rubbing if it is a woman's name.

Luckily, it was not too many trips as there were quite a few of us unloading. As soon as the truck arrived it was on the clock and we were only given so much time to unload. If it took longer there was an extra charge apparently.

Surprisingly, I got used to it quite quickly. It definitely toughened me up.

Sorry to go off topic, it's just that your post reminded me.

[wayned]

Well I wanted it and we got our first good soaking rain yesterday afternoon, it was really good, just rain no wind, but it also soaked the electric transformer in the village and power went off at 1800 and just came back on at 0800. An uncomfortable night with no fans or water but the corn needed it and I survived!

[farmerjo]

Well stage 1 is done.Was a bit of piggin around as we dont have the turning cicle for a truck and trailer at home so had to unload at the local market onto a flatbed then bring to farm and unload.

Russeld up 10 people and they where great.Mostly in there 50-60's.3 bottles of laocow and 300 baht and everyone was happy.

Except me,i got a stiff neck and sore back watching.

[farmerjo]

Well i was hoping to have 20 rai sprayed out ready to plant sunflowers but continual rain is holding that back.

I'm worried that the soil is to wet and the seed will burst if i plant now.

I had a window a week ago but missed it.

Cant see them getting planted till november now,is that too late?

[kickstart]

Hi FJ.

When sunflowers were first grown round here ,it was at the end of the rainy season ,I have seen many crops grown that have had not one drop of rain ,just cool season morning dew . some have tried in the middle of the rainy season ,hope to get there crop in early and get a good price ,but not a good crop, stunted , far to wet .

Round here ,and I would think wayned would be the same ,can not see any crops being sown before the end of the month ,when the maize crops have been harvested , a lot will be in to next month ,for maize harvesting .

On that porridge land of yours ,next month should be OK ,that clay land should hold the moisture ,sunflowers do not like getting their feet wet ,they like dryer land .roots do not like being waterlogged .

But, the longer you leave it, more chance you will have pidgin problems ,after the new year ,not a lot for them to eat ,a nice crop of sunflowers is just what they will like ,a big problem round here especially with all the sugar cane and cassava about.

[farmerjo]

Hi KS,

Think the pidgins are predicting there arrival as its nothing to see 50 here now and a dozen of the white shag looking things but at least they eat the frogs and mice in the paddock.

Its to wet for the snakes at the moment.

Had 216mm rain last month and had 71mm so far this month.

Thought it was going to be a dry year but have passed 2005 already which was our driest year on record which was 1054mm.

Picked up a lot of cheap land that year,not the case anymore.