Maize and Rotational Crops

[farmerjo]

Hi All,

Just like to wish everyone who has contributed and viewed this thread a prosperous new year.

Picture of the sunn hemp 10 days out of the ground and just starting to get away now.

And one of a few trashed in soy beans

.

[Allgeier]

A couple of weeks ago i bought a 10 Bath Bag of "Green Bean" Mungbean to see how there grow. And there grow fast in my eyes. Faster than the sunn hemp.

On the facebook site from "firstbean" there selling the green bean for 60 bath/kg. I will wait i harvest my 1 qm bean because i like to see how it is to collect the bean. Maybe after i buy some green bean for planting.

Or somebody planted the green bean befor?

[farmerjo]

Hi Allgeier,

What type of soil do you have there where the beans are growing?

Is it more of a sandy loam type.

What height would you think the sunn hemp would be at compared to the height of beans after same growing time.

Thanks.

[kickstart]

A couple of weeks ago i bought a 10 Bath Bag of "Green Bean" Mungbean to see how there grow. And there grow fast in my eyes. Faster than the sunn hemp.

On the facebook site from "firstbean" there selling the green bean for 60 bath/kg. I will wait i harvest my 1 qm bean because i like to see how it is to collect the bean. Maybe after i buy some green bean for planting.

Or somebody planted the green bean befor?

Hi Allgerier

We use to grow mungbeans ,we grow them on our black land ,more of a sandy loam, if you have water ,or wet year ,you can grow them on light land ,more drought resistant than maize, at the time the planting way was a 7 disc plough with a seed applicator ,drilled very often in to maize stubble this way ,germination is not very even.

Now with the advent of disc coulter seed drills ,they could be direct drilled ,smaller holed plates for the drill will be required ,maize plates ,holes to big ,row spacing of 30 ins ,like slandered Thai drills ,will do ,but 20 ins is better ,looking at the net ,as a second crop ,even narrower row spacing can be used ,giving a better yield ,for narrow spacing's ,you would need a soya bean drill ,or use a standard drill and drill down the middle of the rows, giving you 15 ins spacing's.

Some P and K fertilizer would be needed at drilling ,and some N as a top dressing ,here in LOS ,Thais use a hormone ,as they call it ,which is basically a mineral supplement ,they also spray a fungicide ,they normal do this twice .

Harvest , we used pickers ,one year we had 10-15 Cambodians do the job ,on pice work ,but they only picked the easy to get at pods ,they must have left 30%? ,pods under the plant at ground leave they did not pick ,to slow ,lifting up the plant and looking for the pods .one year we had family in plus local people ,they made a good job ,but for 15 rie ,almost 10 days ,plus the "extra's" at the end of the day ,put on the best part of 1000 Bart plus on to the bill ..

Now a lot combine the crop ,soon gets the job done 600bart/rie ,but lose are high ,usual Thai problem going to fast ,combine not set up right also the crop dose not ripen even ,still a lot of green pods ,which pickers will not pick ,or the combine can not thrash out ,some farmers spry on gramoxone ,then combine after 24 hours . I would think Roundup would be better ,like desiccating oil seed rape /canola ,that would also help weed control in a following crop .

Where that price of 60 Bart /kg come from I do not know our last crop we got 32 Bart/kg .this year the most I have herd of is 42 Bart /kg, that 60 Bart must have been a specialist bean sprout market ,can not see it being a commercial market .

Konwon in the cassava thread has wrote a piece on using mungbean as a green manure, pre growing cassava .

[kickstart]

Hi Allgeier,

What type of soil do you have there where the beans are growing?

Is it more of a sandy loam type.

What height would you think the sunn hemp would be at compared to the height of beans after same growing time.

Thanks.

Hi FJ

That crop of mung beans look to be about 45 days ,sun hemp in the right conditions would be taller over a cup of tea ,found one USA web sight that said at 100 days sun hemp can be 5 foot tall ,they then cut the crop at one foot tall ,then let it grow on again , it would increase the N contain of the biomass harvested ,as they is more leaf than stem ,most of the N is in the leaf .

Next question ,how are you going to incorporate ,it in to the soil , I know you will not be using a plough ,a rotavator ,not a good idea ,as it would cause a pan ,and prevent drainage, that leaves a Thai "Pan -Jet ",7 disc plough, used as a disc type plough ,looking at incorporating green manure ,on the net ,found one guy using a set of spring tines ,with the dust he was producing it was dry ,but he did make a good job ,may have to go one way ,then cross the field ,that would be the way I would do it ,would also help open up the soil to ,but alas finding a set of spring tines in LOS my local shop has some but too light for this job ,a set of double coil tines would work ,have seen them in LOS .

[farmerjo]

Hi Allgeier,

What type of soil do you have there where the beans are growing?

Is it more of a sandy loam type.

What height would you think the sunn hemp would be at compared to the height of beans after same growing time.

Thanks.

Hi FJ

That crop of mung beans look to be about 45 days ,sun hemp in the right conditions would be taller over a cup of tea ,found one USA web sight that said at 100 days sun hemp can be 5 foot tall ,they then cut the crop at one foot tall ,then let it grow on again , it would increase the N contain of the biomass harvested ,as they is more leaf than stem ,most of the N is in the leaf .

Next question ,how are you going to incorporate ,it in to the soil , I know you will not be using a plough ,a rotavator ,not a good idea ,as it would cause a pan ,and prevent drainage, that leaves a Thai "Pan -Jet ",7 disc plough, used as a disc type plough ,looking at incorporating green manure ,on the net ,found one guy using a set of spring tines ,with the dust he was producing it was dry ,but he did make a good job ,may have to go one way ,then cross the field ,that would be the way I would do it ,would also help open up the soil to ,but alas finding a set of spring tines in LOS my local shop has some but too light for this job ,a set of double coil tines would work ,have seen them in LOS .

Hi KS,

I was planning on trying to harvest the seed(with harvester) and get enough decent seed to use as a cover crop next year before planting corn on 75 rai out the back of house.

That decision will depend on how it looks around the 60 day mark on whether to desicate it with roundup or let it grow and harvest it.

Because i use a no-till drill i would prefer not to incorporate it,leave it on top as cover and let it break down overtime while seeding in between the rows.

The sunn hemp is not growing as well as i expected,the cool weather is not helping but every morning i do see a little difference in growth in the right direction.Its not alone,the soy beans are even slower.

Heavy clay soils are always challenging to work with to establish crops,there's plenty of moisture underneath so i don't think it requires a drink yet but do think the drying crust on top is inhibiting growth along with possibly to deep a seed planting(40-50mm).

I guess that's why i asked Allgeier what the height difference would be with mungbeans and sunn hemp on his soil type as all soils don't perform the same.Just about every site i google says legumes grow well in sandy loams but do not like heavy clays so it does limit what can be done and grown.

I've gone with the sunn hemp because of its deep taproot value and biomass.

[farmerjo]

On closer inspection this morning my plants are getting hammered by insects.

So i'm guessing i have more bad ones than good ones.

As the crop is still young i'd prefer not drive over the crop with tractor and boomspray so will have to look around the village for someone

with a mister or fogging machine.

The pictures are average but can anyone identify what insects these are and suggest a remedy to get rid of them

[Allgeier]

A couple of weeks ago i bought a 10 Bath Bag of "Green Bean" Mungbean to see how there grow. And there grow fast in my eyes. Faster than the sunn hemp.

On the facebook site from "firstbean" there selling the green bean for 60 bath/kg. I will wait i harvest my 1 qm bean because i like to see how it is to collect the bean. Maybe after i buy some green bean for planting.

Or somebody planted the green bean befor?

Hi Allgerier

We use to grow mungbeans ,we grow them on our black land ,more of a sandy loam, if you have water ,or wet year ,you can grow them on light land ,more drought resistant than maize, at the time the planting way was a 7 disc plough with a seed applicator ,drilled very often in to maize stubble this way ,germination is not very even.

Where that price of 60 Bart /kg come from I do not know our last crop we got 32 Bart/kg .this year the most I have herd of is 42 Bart /kg, that 60 Bart must have been a specialist bean sprout market ,can not see it being a commercial market .

Konwon in the cassava thread has wrote a piece on using mungbean as a green manure, pre growing cassava .

Thank you for your answer.

Water i should have the whole year.

I got now some sunn hemp and i will use them first.

This with the mungbean and the cassava is maybe a good idea to keep the weed down. The most Profit make the Trader. He buy for 32 Bath and sell after for 60 Bath.

Our soil is here sandy loam. The Land need a couple of years to recover. And i belive when the Land or the soil is ready there can protect the plant on it by them self against bags or another insect.

This is also a answer to FJ on his question what kind of insect this is. I belive when the the soil is healthy there protect the plant from predator. But i can help and support them also with some Organic Insectise like Neem or Bag Nr. 7 from the Land Development Office.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Allgeier

[farmerjo]

Looking forward to it warming up towards the end of next week then will think about giving it another drink.

All too hard trying to find a mister for the bugs so will see how hardy it is Most damage is around the border.

[sbf]

Hi FJ,

Here are a couple of shots of two of our Sunn Hemp fields as of end of December. These are two of the earlier sowings from November 12-14th, we are still sowing now, hope to finish this weekend. Your fields will develop quickly now and look like this in no time. Where we can we like to apply an irrigation on seeding, then when the crop is about 20-30 cm high and the third irrigation as the primary flower stalk begins to open.

We have never had too much insect damage down this way in Sisaket province, there is one moth whose larvae cause a bit of damage to the leaves, and a few pod-borers which do a little damage to the seeds, but never more than 1-2% percent, and they are both more prevalent in wet season crops. The long flowering period makes it difficult to intervene with a spray, as it would have to be something persistent, or regular applications. The economics of production for us dictate no spraying at all.

Also I include a couple of shots of the main pollinators of Sunn Hemp, as I saw your question on another thread. They are both Xylocopa or Carpenter bees. Theseare solitary bees and they chew out a nest inside wood. I saw one flying into a Eucalyptus rafter of a shed recently, very small entrance you wouldn't imagine such a large bee could get inside.

Sunn Hemp flowers are also worked by Apis cerana - the small Asian honeybee - but I do not think that it is an effective pollinator for Sunn Hemp, I am hopeful they may get some nectar from it though, as we hived a swarm ( in a Chang Beer box ) a few weeks ago. We will move the hive to the fields shortly - once I have time to sort out a more dignified and permanent home for them.

[farmerjo]

Hi sbf,

Firstly welcome and thank you for sharing with us.

Great looking stands.

[rice555]

A new High Yield Thai Corn I saw at the Korat Ag Show.

rice555

[farmerjo]

Picture of sunn hemp at 30 days since dry seeded.Was fortunate enough to receive 3mm of rain last night so will be a good indicator if it was lacking moisture.

Not going to worry about insect damage as there's a fair bit of sugar burning around and hope the smoke will up set them.

However i am considering giving a foliar spray so i know all the plants have all the trace elements required.Just got to decide whether to use a

30-20-10 or 6-32-32 with all the trace elements included.

[M1keM1ke]

Haven't checked the price locally yet,but a mate in udon got 9 baht a kilo about 3 weeks ago so would say thats about right.

[kickstart]

As it is near the end of the season ,9 Bart/kg is not a bad price ,I take it that is for grain ,where I am ,in the central plains ,Lopburi ,maize on the cob was 4.50.bart/kg ,that would make it about 6 Bart /kg for grain ,but then I would have put the moisture at 25/30%,now we are in the cool season ? no rain , moisture would be a lot less 18-22 %?,so taking that into account ,still not a bad price .

If one buyer is paying 9 bart/kg ,the rest in the area will be paying about the same ,give or take 10-20 satang /kg .

@ FJ

Sun hemp being a legume I would apply the 6-32-32,after looking at your soil analysis ,from last year, I would say the trace elements are of equal importance ,if not more so .

ps, Have a word with him upstairs ,see if he can send us a bit of rain ,3mm will do us some good ,sugar cane growers ,now harvesting will not agree, sun flower growers would not mind a bit ,a lot are now coming in to flower, would bulk the seeds out a treat .

[farmerjo]

Hi KS,

I think that's our allocation of rain for the month so will be pumping again shortly.

I agree on the 6-32-32,will just check a few plants before hand to make sure there's some nodules growing on the roots.

I've got that old planetary in at a machine shop getting a few modifications done to reverse shaft directions.

The guys are great on a lathe or crankshaft grinder but not so good at picturing the final outcome of how this would work.

All done now except for the fixing of carrier bearing which should be completed tomorrow.

It took me about 3 weeks to work out how it was going to work and them about 2 minutes to try to change my mind,now they understand.

Good bunch of guys to know for any future jobs,first time i've used them.

[farmerjo]

I got my planetary back after a few mods and mounted on same frame that rotates in opposite direction with v-belts.

Been pumping water for 3 hours and the planetary is operating at 58 degrees,touchwood it stays around there although i do have the ability to water cool it if required.

And it's running backwards if you know what i mean,output shaft is now the input to get the rpm required for the flow.

[kickstart]

I got my planetary back after a few mods and mounted on same frame that rotates in opposite direction with v-belts.

Been pumping water for 3 hours and the planetary is operating at 58 degrees,touchwood it stays around there although i do have the ability to water cool it if required.

And it's running backwards if you know what i mean,output shaft is now the input to get the rpm required for the flow.

C360_2016-01-14-09-47-46-959.jpg

C360_2016-01-14-10-21-25-777.jpg

Hi FJ

Something a bit different ,for LOS , I wonder what the locals think ,the main thing is it works .

How is the gearing ,tractor has a 3 speed PTO ,is the planetary ,giving you a gearing up .or a gearing down .

Will lubrication be a problem, the planetary normally runs in oil ,that is looking to be running dry ,a tub of grease in there ?.

My chipper shredder ,the feeder roller drive comes off the main drive shaft ,though 90 degrees by using an old crown wheel and pinion from a diff out of an old pick up ,I just put on grease now and then ,we have had it for 8-9 years, never a problem .

[farmerjo]

I got my planetary back after a few mods and mounted on same frame that rotates in opposite direction with v-belts.

Been pumping water for 3 hours and the planetary is operating at 58 degrees,touchwood it stays around there although i do have the ability to water cool it if required.

And it's running backwards if you know what i mean,output shaft is now the input to get the rpm required for the flow.

C360_2016-01-14-09-47-46-959.jpg

C360_2016-01-14-10-21-25-777.jpg

Hi FJ

Something a bit different ,for LOS , I wonder what the locals think ,the main thing is it works .

How is the gearing ,tractor has a 3 speed PTO ,is the planetary ,giving you a gearing up .or a gearing down .

Will lubrication be a problem, the planetary normally runs in oil ,that is looking to be running dry ,a tub of grease in there ?.

My chipper shredder ,the feeder roller drive comes off the main drive shaft ,though 90 degrees by using an old crown wheel and pinion from a diff out of an old pick up ,I just put on grease now and then ,we have had it for 8-9 years, never a problem .

Hi KS,

Fil came this morning and couldn't get the smile of his face,no belts.

The unit is sealed with a litre of hydraulic oil inside.

With regards to gearing,when i ran it in normal procedure,high speed to low speed it didn't have enough rpm to pump water.

So by turning it 180 degrees and making it low speed to high speed it works fine on the lowest pto gear so i have more up my sleeve if i want higher output.

Will need it as the year go's on till the rains arrive.

[farmerjo]

Well got about 30 hours out of my planetary and it's keed the can.Haven't pulled it apart yet but i bet the gear they welded on a shaft has broken the weld.As i have also noticed where i asked them to drill and tap the housing to use bolts to fix the carrier bearing on closer inspection they have welded inserts in the housing which have come loose,told them you cant use mild steel rods to weld cast.

So will be interesting to see what warranty is available.

Nearly emptied the 1st section of creek out the back of house and was suprised to see about a metre of silt built up in it after construction of it 10 years ago.Got some nice size catfish out so far and a heap of wood for charcoal.

The stump in the middle isn't going anywhere as a 20 ton excavator couldn't pick it before.

[farmerjo]

Had a grumpy farmer moment yesterday.

And one today.

Stripped down the planetary and all gears in good condition,problem was the bolts holding the fixed bearing carrier not long enough and only holding it by a mickeys hair once they put washers on to seal it and they let go so losing drive.No drama to fix.

The problem today was when all the family came to get the fish from the creek,firstly left 100 plus kilo of fish on the back of my new pickup for 2 hours before taking to market,the smell will take ages to get rid off.And once they took the fish nobody was around to clean up.

Next time will leave enough water so they survive till the following year and fishing rods only.

Total lack of respect and no plan of how they would deal with the fish caught.

I didn't even get one to taste.

However happy to get the water on my crop.

BIL with a good size which they got plenty of.

[kickstart]

Hi FJ

Misses just had a look at the photo ,she said that is one big Bla- Mor I bet they is still a lot of fish still in they ,especially Bla- Chon's,they like the mud and some eels .

Any thoughts about enlarging the pond? now would be a time to do it ,increase the water holding ,we have a fish pond ,last year it dried out in July / August,if it does it again this year ,we are very tempted to get a 360 backhoe in for a day,the way things are going ,I do not think you can not have enough water holding capacity .

[farmerjo]

Hi FJ

Misses just had a look at the photo ,she said that is one big Bla- Mor I bet they is still a lot of fish still in they ,especially Bla- Chon's,they like the mud and some eels .

Any thoughts about enlarging the pond? now would be a time to do it ,increase the water holding ,we have a fish pond ,last year it dried out in July / August,if it does it again this year ,we are very tempted to get a 360 backhoe in for a day,the way things are going ,I do not think you can not have enough water holding capacity .

Hi KS.

I have a bore 20 metres away from there so got to do some figures,weigh up an excavator in or maybe solar power bore pump to top it up.

The problem with making it bigger is you wont find a contractor with trucks to take it away,will stick in the trucks making them unstable to tip.Unless in a couple of months it's dry enough.

I have another 4 dams so not entirely reliant on it although as you say you can never have enough water.

Going to get my sprinkler out tomorrow and dust it off and see how it goes by a 3/2 centrifical pump compared to hooked up with a 6" longtail pipe. .

[JungleBiker]

Hi FJ,

Here are a couple of shots of two of our Sunn Hemp fields as of end of December. These are two of the earlier sowings from November 12-14th, we are still sowing now, hope to finish this weekend. Your fields will develop quickly now and look like this in no time. Where we can we like to apply an irrigation on seeding, then when the crop is about 20-30 cm high and the third irrigation as the primary flower stalk begins to open.

Hi SBF,

Nice photos.

Is your sunn hemp growing in rice paddies and being irrigated by flood irrigation?

What sowing rate and row spacing did you use?

Where did you get your seed and what price?

Do you know the name of the variety?

Thanks.

JB (interested to grow sunn hemp in neighbouring Ubon).

[BSJ]

Well good news from me. Made a crane extension to fit on the carry-all which allowed me to lift the Kubota engine onto the frame I made. With the help of a few local lads got the pump set-up and running. Ran it for 9 hours yesterday and still got plenty of diesel, unlike the Honda which chews through 2 tanks of benzine in the same time. Yes the tanks are different size.

Seems to be taking too long to water the corn so we ran both pumps yesterday to try and finish today.

Having to hand plant in the gaps about 8-9 days after the machine planting has corn plants of different heights which looks weird! The missus will be doing it all by hand next year!

[farmerjo]

Hi BSJ,

The corn looks ok mate. it will even up over time.

You will also keep the rubber farmers happy with v-belts that long.(how do you keep tension on it)

I see you have crossed your v-belt,cant turn your engine 180 degrees and run it straight or is it a thai thing.Or drive,driven to stop slippage.

With a longtail pipe with 6" layflat,it took me about 40 hours pumping on initial planting of 15 rai.

I've be crucified by insects and some type of white fungi on my crop as everywhere around is sugar and it seems a nice place for them.

How is your area for bugs,etc.

Edited January 22, 2016 by farmerjo

[BSJ]

Hi BSJ,

The corn looks ok mate. it will even up over time.

You will also keep the rubber farmers happy with v-belts that long.(how do you keep tension on it)

I see you have crossed your v-belt,cant turn your engine 180 degrees and run it straight or is it a thai thing.Or drive,driven to stop slippage.

With a longtail pipe with 6" layflat,it took me about 40 hours pumping on initial planting of 15 rai.

I've be crucified by insects and some type of white fungi on my crop as everywhere around is sugar and it seems a nice place for them.

How is your area for bugs,etc.

Hi mate, it's gunna be a pain come harvest! The missus bought 25kg of Pacific 339 which is all they had and a 10kg bag of CP seed (forgot which one!) which was put in with a machine that didn't do a very good job....so 10 days after the machine finished a crew went out to fill in the spaces with a bag of 777 and the SIL's plastic bag of whatever corn seeds she had! When we knew we would be needing seed I don't get why she waited till the last minute to buy! I'd rather have too much of the one variety than too little and end up with with a bunch of different corn seeds. Same with the fert, she bought 5 bags of Black Panther special mix for corn and I told her we should buy 10. One bag one rai, and she planted 9 rai! She looked surprised when the special mix ran out at just under 5 rai.

The locals all use long rubber drive belts here. The tension is adjusted by rope and stick! The rope is attached to the bamboo that is roped to the shaft head and to another bamboo about 80cm away. Put a smaller stick in the middle of the rope and start winding till the bottom section of V belt stops flapping. Silly me I was going to use a coil spring between the 2 bamboo!

We went with the 5" after seeing how hard it is to get the 6" lay flat hose up off the ground to drain it when moving it. 5" is still bloody hard for an old bloke with a crook back and the missus helping!

No fungii to worry about at the mo. There is some insects chomping on the leaves but we haven't seen them during the day. We got the guy down the road to spray insecticide so hopefully that will take care of the problem for a week or 2. In the mangoes we get every bug known to man!

One bit of good news is the underground reservoir which feeds the dam (and the excavated section of klong we use to pump from) pushed the water level in the dam up over half a metre and close to a metre in the klong since we stopped pumping. Hopefully we will get some more as the nearest other dam is 300 metres away and I don't fancy buying pipe or hose to transfer water from it to the big dam.

[farmerjo]

Well this front coming through has made it bloody cold,but with it has brought 22mm of rain so far.

Good for what sunn hemp i have in,bad for my sprayed out pasture which will require another knockdown shortly with weeds germinating.

On the good side,have 18 kilo's of sunn hemp seed left over which i will now go and put in on a bit of poorer land on thursday.

[farmerjo]

Now to try to find this plants secret for the rest of the field.Photo not the best with sunlight.

48 days and branched out nicely.30 percent is like this with other 70 percent only making it to around 45 cm tall with no branching.

Although they say it grows in infertile soil,you still need all the basic nutrients for it to grow well and even thou i put phosphate down it would have been better with some N&K as well i feel.

Still it's a step in the right direction.

Edited January 27, 2016 by farmerjo

[wayned]

It's kinda like the sunflowers that were planted between the corn rows just after the corn was harvested with no soil preparation.

It's hit and miss some are tall large plants the others are short. They've started to flower and the flowers are early small.

We didn't fit the trucks to haul cane this year as we are still hauling chicken s**t to the corn fields in preparation for May's planting if the

drought doesn't prevent it again. Our supply is just about finished. The migrant worker population is very small this year and the cutting is going slow.

Most of it is being cut without burning so the black dust cloud never appeared but there's still a bit in the air as when I mop the house every

other day the water is black.

I'm still getting exhausted looking at the pictures of all of your irrigation paraphernalia. I don't have any bore holes, water catch basins or pumps to

bother with, thank Buddha. When I do irrigate, usually after newly planted cane, only 10 rai, the water is trucked in from a local resivour.

The rear spindle assembly on the 9500 broke and it's been sitting in the middle of a field for a couple of weeks. I had to order one from the US and

actually found an after market parts manufacturer and supplier that was 40% cheaper than Deere. I had it shipped USPS, 25 kilos, and it

arrived on Monday. It somehow got through with no customs duty or VAT added. It took 4.5 days to go from Owatonna Minnesota to

Bangkok Postal Center, over 14000 kilometers and 6.5 days to go fro the Postal Center to the post office in Takfa, about 250 kilometers.

It says it all about Thai Post!

I have been busy locating another 6620 and corn head to import from the US. I should know tomorrow if it's a go or not as this time the entire funding is coming from a Thai,

the same one that backed out at the last minute on one that I found for him 2 years ago when I bought mine. I'll believe it when we go to the bank and the money is

transferred. If it's a go then the real work begins trying to deal with the shipping agent in Chicago. It should be a little easier this time as he shipped the last one

and I have used him for other shipments.